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(Salon)   Liberal Logic: Let's nationalize Google, Amazon and Facebook, because they're too valuable to leave in the hands of the people who created them and should be handed over to the people who spend $850 million on websites that don't work   (salon.com) divider line 280
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6442 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jul 2014 at 8:07 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-14 11:30:11 AM  
FormlessOne: Why are we getting Politics links (and their associated whackjobs) in the Geek tab?

Cross contamination for Ad Revenue

 
2014-07-14 11:30:35 AM  

mjbok: //Mom and pop video stores might not have survived in today's market either, but they would have gotten to it without Blockbuster.


 [Randal is on the phone when a woman and little girl come to the counter]
'Happy-Scrappy' Mom: Excuse me, do you sell videos?
Randal Graves: Yeah, what're you looking for?
'Happy-Scrappy' Mom: Happy Scrappy Hero Pup.
Randal Graves: Uh, once second. I'm on the phone with the distribution house now, lemme make sure they got it.
'Happy-Scrappy' Mom: 'Kay.
Randal Graves: What's it called again?
'Happy-Scrappy' Mom: Happy Scrappy Hero Pup.
'Happy-Scrappy' Kid: Happy Scrappy!
'Happy-Scrappy' Mom: She loves it.
Randal Graves: Obviously.
[into the phone]
Randal Graves: Uh, yeah, hi. This is RST Video calling. Customer number 4352, I'd like to place an order. Okay, I need one each of the following tapes: "Whispers in the Wind", "To Each His Own", "Put It Where It Doesn't Belong", "My Pipes Need Cleaning", "All ***-farking Volume 8", "I Need Your ****", "***-Worshipping ***-Jobbers", "My **** Needs Shafts", "*** Clean", "***-Gargling Naked Sluts", "*** Buns III", "***ming in Socks", "*** On Eileen", "Huge Black **** with Pearly White ***", "Girls Who Crave ****", "Girls Who Crave ****", "Men Alone II: The KY Connection", "Pink***** Lips", oh, yeah, and, uh, "All Holes Filled with Hard ****". Yup. Oh, wait a minute.
[to the woman]
Randal Graves: Uh, what was that called again?
 
2014-07-14 11:35:51 AM  

FormlessOne: Why are we getting Politics links (and their associated whackjobs) in the Geek tab?


The topic is about Amazon, Google and making broadband a public utility. I cannot for the life of me understand how this got into the Geek tab. Truly, it is a mystery.
 
2014-07-14 11:36:59 AM  

jst3p: mjbok: Headso: Jim_Callahan: The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite.

lol

The original statement wasn't mine, but I don't see how it is LOL worthy.  Google, as a company, probably had more to do with shaping the current internet than any other publicly known company.  Google wouldn't have existed without the internet, but Google is now a verb for a reason.

The part in bold is what makes it lol worthy.


What if he had said "The Yellow Pages would not have existed without the telephone utilities"? Still LOL?
 
2014-07-14 11:40:44 AM  
I agree but they do not go far enough.  We need to nationalize all businesses that turn a profit.
 
2014-07-14 11:41:37 AM  

FormlessOne: Why are we getting Politics links (and their associated whackjobs) in the Geek tab?


Because fark you, that's why!

Sorry couldn't resist
 
2014-07-14 11:45:11 AM  
Is the health exchange being broken still a meme? Because they fixed it, like, almost a year ago.
 
2014-07-14 11:46:19 AM  

themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.


Nope, it sounds much like the lefties on Fark. This could have been written by czar or Weaver
 
2014-07-14 11:47:08 AM  

Jim_Callahan: // In fairness, calling Salon "Liberal logic" as if it's representative is sort of like calling NRO representative of right-wing logic.


The difference, of course, is that, at least on Fark, garbage like this from Salon is rightly called out as such, whereas garbage from NRO is adopted, defended, and repeated ad nauseum long after it has been shown to be idiotic.
 
2014-07-14 11:49:10 AM  

Nemo's Brother: themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.

Nope, it sounds much like the lefties on Fark. This could have been written by czar or Weaver


That just shows how warped your own perspective is.  You've got a thread full of "lefties" rightly calling this guy an idiot, and you're still convinced they'd all agree with him.
 
2014-07-14 11:53:24 AM  

mjbok: Quantumbunny: Hell, look at Lowe's, Home depot, and Ace... have you see a hardware store recently that isn't one of them?

Menards?


While living up to the words in that sentence... take it in context. I meant where are the mom and pop hardware stores? Menard's is hardly a one off mom and pop store, it's still a large chain.

As to other aspects... sure we could bring specialty large chains in the discussion as well like Greybar. I was focusing more on consumer end hardware stores.
 
2014-07-14 11:55:23 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Is the health exchange being broken still a meme? Because they fixed it, like, almost a year ago.


And the same company who F'ed it up in the first place (CGI) is still being given work for some reason. After F'ing up hundreds of millions of dollars of a project that should have been in the tens of millions, states and other businesses still give them work... which they F up. See Colorado's financial system CORE project replacement of COFRS.
 
2014-07-14 11:56:56 AM  

Nemo's Brother: themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.

Nope, it sounds much like the lefties on Fark. This could have been written by czar or Weaver


I'd love to see an example of a post here on Fark where someone seriously thinks this is a good idea.
 
kab
2014-07-14 11:56:57 AM  
Save this sort of argument for something like the oil industry, lady.
 
2014-07-14 11:57:23 AM  

DubyaHater: It's part of King Obama's plan.  He's already nationalized healthcare, sissified the military, and taxed us beyond our means.  Why not start nationalizing private enterprise?  It's the next logical step.


No, the next logical step is to dissolve the Senate and give the Regional governors direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line.
 
2014-07-14 11:58:04 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: jst3p: mjbok: Headso: Jim_Callahan: The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite.

lol

The original statement wasn't mine, but I don't see how it is LOL worthy.  Google, as a company, probably had more to do with shaping the current internet than any other publicly known company.  Google wouldn't have existed without the internet, but Google is now a verb for a reason.

The part in bold is what makes it lol worthy.

What if he had said "The Yellow Pages would not have existed without the telephone utilities"? Still LOL?


You missed the point.
 
2014-07-14 11:59:00 AM  

fazookus: Mad_Radhu: MindStalker: damageddude: It wasn't that long ago where Microsoft was the monopoly

Nobody (that was anybody) wanted Microsoft broken up or owned by the government. People were just saying that they needed more oversight and forced to stop their arguably illegal bundling of products.

Which was kind of hilarious in hindsight, because Microsoft's own arrogant failure to update their browser substantially after they took over the market is what really gave upstarts like Firefox and Chrome a chance to end the Microsoft monopoly on the internet. It was basically a textbook case of the free market self correcting. I'm generally for the government helping regulate monopolies, but the Microsoft case was just idiotic and had no real impact on anything, especially since EVERY current OS includes a bundled default browser.

At least it didn't go quite as full derp as the EU decision, which adds a stupid browser ballot during setup, even though customers will get asked to download and install Chrome every time they go to Google's homepage. As far as antitrust litigation goes, the Microsoft cases were the worst wastes of time ever.

IIRC the major issue with the MS trial was that they were bundling their web server with everything they sold, not just their server products, no less.  And selling the Netscape web server was Netscape's business model, not selling browsers, so MS really was killing them with the OS/web server bundle; the battle was never about browsers.

There was a time when people were trying to sell browsers and those companies are long gone...MS and Google can afford to give stuff away so that  is still kinda a monopoly of two...  Linux and the Mozilla people are the real heroes of this story.


You, sir (or ma'am) are henceforth not allowed to comment on a thread in the geek tab.
 
2014-07-14 12:01:48 PM  

docrhody: Nobody born after the baby boomers will agree with anything this guy said.  I just hate that he left no way to reply to his uninformed argument.  Typical, we'll just take what we want, if we can't take, we control it and run it into the ground.  It's time to wake up and expose these people for the spoiled brats they are.  They used their numbers to rob their parents, and now they steal the future to make their life easy.  Talk about "tyranny of the majority."  And this person is a liberal following classic liberal logic.  Liberals want the expansion of government and government control.  Modern young people think they are liberal because they support gay marriage and marijuana legalization.  This actually removes government control and is classically conservative.  Now that your brain is all twisted up-- most people are socially "liberal" and fiscally conservative.  Or by classic definition conservative.  They changed the textbooks to tell everyone they were liberal.  Read one from before 1970.  And today's republicans are not conservative, they are liberal by classic definition.  They decided to change the definition to divide the voters in hopes of winning elections.  Personally, I think government should be limited to Military, emergency services, and garbage pick-up.


You've never actually taken any courses on political science, have you?
 
2014-07-14 12:16:41 PM  
Conservatard logic: Let's take this one opinion piece nobody has agreed with and proclaim it to be the opinion of all liberals!

Fark Mod logic: Greenlight, baby!
 
2014-07-14 12:17:30 PM  

jst3p: The part in bold is what makes it lol worthy.


I know some of y'all aren't out of high school yet and think that the internet has always been exactly what it is now, but those of us in our late 20s plus remember having to use it before the advent of competent search engine indexing and referencing, and can tell you it ain't even remotely similar.

Imagine if the best way to find something was to ask people about it more or less at random on FARK, with no way to even double-check the replies to tell if you're being trolled... except that the only way you'd even have access to something THAT good was if someone literally told you about it, with their mouth, in real life, or if you saw the URL on a TV ad and happened to memorize it with all the random prefixes and suffixes included.  Write down a couple wrong letters or miss a sub-page on a website without a default index page (there were a lot of those) and you'd essentially never find what you were looking for even with a direct address reference.

Google is pretty much what took 'hey, look at this useless novelty where you can send digital data over the phone' and turned it into the actual information age.

Henry Ford didn't make the first self-powered wheeled vehicle, either, but he did essentially invent automobiles.
 
2014-07-14 12:24:55 PM  
I couldn't make it past the first few sentences of that derp-fest.

Surely no actual human being could earnestly support such inanity?

*looks upthread*

ohferchrissakes!
 
2014-07-14 12:34:03 PM  

mjbok: Headso: Jim_Callahan: The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite.

lol

The original statement wasn't mine, but I don't see how it is LOL worthy.  Google, as a company, probably had more to do with shaping the current internet than any other publicly known company.  Google wouldn't have existed without the internet, but Google is now a verb for a reason.


Yes, because it's the most popular search engine. Big farking deal. That's like saying the modern car owes its existence to Goodyear tire company to a far greater degree than the opposite. It's just purely irrational.
 
2014-07-14 12:34:50 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I know some of y'all aren't out of high school yet and think that the internet has always been exactly what it is now, but those of us in our late 20s plus remember having to use it before the advent of competent search engine indexing and referencing, and can tell you it ain't even remotely similar.


www.usg.edu

/ Excite was the real shiznit back in the day, though
 
2014-07-14 12:36:27 PM  

Nemo's Brother: themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.

Nope, it sounds much like the lefties on Fark. This could have been written by czar or Weaver


We really don't need the opinion of domestic terrorists and cold blooded murderers like you.

www.anniemayhem.com
 
2014-07-14 12:37:14 PM  

themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.


If the crackpots on the right represent everyone on the right, then this motherfarker can represent all of you. Own it.
 
2014-07-14 12:39:16 PM  

Chris Ween: If anything will turn Zuckerberg into a conservative it would be this unlikely scenario.


Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google, escaped Soviet Russia in the 1980s. If anyone should be a raging right winger, or at least the second coming of Yakov Smirnov, it should be him. Yet he supports every lefty politician in SF, supports MoveOn.org, all of them. If he has no sense, none of them do.
 
2014-07-14 12:44:14 PM  

FormlessOne: It's time to rein in the Wild West.


Before the Wild West was tamed, it was actually a pretty safe place to live. Nowadays, it's far more dangerous to live in cities in the West than it was back when it was "wild". If by "rein in" you mean "make worse", then you're correct.
 
2014-07-14 12:44:32 PM  

Jim_Callahan: jst3p: The part in bold is what makes it lol worthy.

I know some of y'all aren't out of high school yet and think that the internet has always been exactly what it is now, but those of us in our late 20s plus remember having to use it before the advent of competent search engine indexing and referencing, and can tell you it ain't even remotely similar.


Oh god this. Alta-Vista was so awesome when it showed up.
 
2014-07-14 12:49:48 PM  
Businesses would be unable to participate in modern society without access to the services companies like Amazon, Google and Facebook provide. These services have become public marketplaces.

I'd actually like to kill facebook because a couple of my clients write updates on there when I keep telling them to use a blog as they can direct traffic, control content etc. Facebook is farking AOL all over again - closed, controlled, anti-web.
 
2014-07-14 12:51:06 PM  

damageddude: Knowing that this article is troll bait, I'll still bite:

It wasn't that long ago where Microsoft was the monopoly that was going to take over the world, and people were worried about Borders and Barnes and Noble killing all the little bookstores while Blockbuster was eliminating the mom and pop video stores. Now, two of those companies are gone and Microsoft isn't the dominate player it was. Today it's a Google/Amazon world. Tomorrow it will be somebody else.

However, broadband should be regulated like other public utilities. They are all the keys to our economy.


Microsoft did take over the world, most of the mom and pop video stores were eliminated and most little bookstores were killed. Have you been outside?

So what if something bigger came along and killed both of those companies? Now we have megacompanies fighting amongst themselves and buying regular companies you would have been proud to work for and buy from. The only competition is between bidders for the latest tech acquisition.
 
2014-07-14 12:53:40 PM  

farkeruk: Businesses would be unable to participate in modern society without access to the services companies like Amazon, Google and Facebook provide. These services have become public marketplaces.

I'd actually like to kill facebook because a couple of my clients write updates on there when I keep telling them to use a blog as they can direct traffic, control content etc. Facebook is farking AOL all over again - closed, controlled, anti-web.


The personal blog is dead and RSS is dead, and yeah we are worse off for it. Facebook is anti-web, but it's also anti-Google, which more or less controls how the web behaves.
 
2014-07-14 12:54:19 PM  

Egoy3k: Oh god this. Alta-Vista was so awesome when it showed up.


Aye, in fairness not JUST Google.  Still a bunch of private companies/money, though, which was my central point.
 
2014-07-14 12:57:20 PM  

jst3p: Jim_Callahan: The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite.

This is a front runner for "the dumbest thing posted on the internet today".


Then you missed the Apple fantard defending the price fixing as if it was a good thing.
 
2014-07-14 12:59:35 PM  
To be fair, some small video stores managed to survive by rebranding:

cdn.cultofmac.com
 
2014-07-14 01:04:40 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Egoy3k: Oh god this. Alta-Vista was so awesome when it showed up.

Aye, in fairness not JUST Google.  Still a bunch of private companies/money, though, which was my central point.


On I was agreeing with you, Alta-Vista was the first 'indexing' engine that actually you know, indexed a decent portion of the internet but Google smashed everyone when it arrived.
 
2014-07-14 01:10:30 PM  

moothemagiccow: The personal blog is dead and RSS is dead, and yeah we are worse off for it. Facebook is anti-web, but it's also anti-Google, which more or less controls how the web behaves.


It all started with the crash of geocities.
 
2014-07-14 01:17:09 PM  

FormlessOne: cig-mkr: The government can't even keep backup e-mails at the IRS, and you want them to regulate the internet?

Yes. How hard is that to understand? It's time to rein in the Wild West.


The government already has enough to "reign in" right now, like the national budget, immigration, social security and the list goes on. BTW if you search "How many government agencies are there?" no one can give you an exact number.
 Besides that, suppose the gov did take over the internet, how long do you think it would take for them to outlaw porn sites ?
 
2014-07-14 01:21:04 PM  

damageddude: Knowing that this article is troll bait, I'll still bite:

It wasn't that long ago where Microsoft was the monopoly that was going to take over the world, and people were worried about Borders and Barnes and Noble killing all the little bookstores while Blockbuster was eliminating the mom and pop video stores. Now, two of those companies are gone and Microsoft isn't the dominate player it was. Today it's a Google/Amazon world. Tomorrow it will be somebody else.

However, broadband should be regulated like other public utilities. They are all the keys to our economy.


I'll give you Microsoft, but Border and B&N did, in fact, pretty much decimate the small bookstore market. They, in turn, got destroyed by an even bigger shark called Amazon. This means that books sales are even more consolidated than ever.
 
2014-07-14 01:21:41 PM  

cig-mkr: FormlessOne: cig-mkr: The government can't even keep backup e-mails at the IRS, and you want them to regulate the internet?

Yes. How hard is that to understand? It's time to rein in the Wild West.

The government already has enough to "reign in" right now, like the national budget, immigration, social security and the list goes on. BTW if you search "How many government agencies are there?" no one can give you an exact number.
 Besides that, suppose the gov did take over the internet, how long do you think it would take for them to outlaw porn sites ?


Just like porn can't be delivered through the US Post Office, right?
 
2014-07-14 01:24:23 PM  

Quantumbunny: both in small towns like Santa Fe and in larger ones like Denver


Where do you live that Santa Fe is a small town and Denver is a large town? Here in rural south central Colorado we call both Santa Fe and Denver "big cities".
 
2014-07-14 01:29:26 PM  
If Google shouldn't be owned by the people then we should at least acknowledge it as the monopoly that it is and begin the break-up. Seize the domain names, split the company into a thousand different companies define the API and then let anybody buy a portion of the traffic behind a load balancer. Repeat for the rest of the major internet monopolies.
 
2014-07-14 01:34:45 PM  

Jim_Callahan: jst3p: The part in bold is what makes it lol worthy.

I know some of y'all aren't out of high school yet and think that the internet has always been exactly what it is now, but those of us in our late 20s plus remember having to use it before the advent of competent search engine indexing and referencing, and can tell you it ain't even remotely similar.

Imagine if the best way to find something was to ask people about it more or less at random on FARK, with no way to even double-check the replies to tell if you're being trolled... except that the only way you'd even have access to something THAT good was if someone literally told you about it, with their mouth, in real life, or if you saw the URL on a TV ad and happened to memorize it with all the random prefixes and suffixes included.  Write down a couple wrong letters or miss a sub-page on a website without a default index page (there were a lot of those) and you'd essentially never find what you were looking for even with a direct address reference.

Google is pretty much what took 'hey, look at this useless novelty where you can send digital data over the phone' and turned it into the actual information age.

Henry Ford didn't make the first self-powered wheeled vehicle, either, but he did essentially invent automobiles.


I am 39 and work in IT. I appreciate all the google has accomplished. That being said the statement " The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite." is still a dumb statement. Google is an impossibility without the internet, the reverse is not true.
 
2014-07-14 01:40:51 PM  

umad: themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals that don't live in his head.

If the crackpots on the right represent everyone on the right, then this motherfarker can represent all of you. Own it.


lol.
 
2014-07-14 01:40:55 PM  

rwdavis: If Google shouldn't be owned by the people then we should at least acknowledge it as the monopoly that it is and begin the break-up. Seize the domain names, split the company into a thousand different companies define the API and then let anybody buy a portion of the traffic behind a load balancer. Repeat for the rest of the major internet monopolies.


Very reasonable idea.
 
2014-07-14 01:48:22 PM  
Go and look up what companies made up the DJIA over the years. I think General Electric is the only company to stay on there any length of time. Hell, go back far enough and there's a streetcar company on the list.

All the companies will fail eventually, just as they crushed those who came before. Because they are launched by visionaries, people with brilliant ideas and new methods. Then they get run by MBAs like Mitt Romney. So let the companies run along as they are, someday Google's decline will get bad enough people turn to other searches. Amazon's already infested with MBAs who have made the gross mistake of telling customers other online book dealers exist. Ebay could be wiped out if you were to power up a version free of drop shippers and spammers.  Just because they seem dominant doesn't make them so, as any user of Compuserve or Yahoo might remember.
 
2014-07-14 01:49:43 PM  

untaken_name: FormlessOne: It's time to rein in the Wild West.

Before the Wild West was tamed, it was actually a pretty safe place to live. Nowadays, it's far more dangerous to live in cities in the West than it was back when it was "wild". If by "rein in" you mean "make worse", then you're correct.


You sir are an idiot with no sense of perspective and no knowledge of what you speak.
 
2014-07-14 01:52:07 PM  
I do think Google should be nationalized. Amazon and Facebook, no.

/DNRTFA.
 
2014-07-14 01:55:38 PM  

wildcardjack: Go and look up what companies made up the DJIA over the years. I think General Electric is the only company to stay on there any length of time. Hell, go back far enough and there's a streetcar company on the list.

All the companies will fail eventually, just as they crushed those who came before. Because they are launched by visionaries, people with brilliant ideas and new methods. Then they get run by MBAs like Mitt Romney. So let the companies run along as they are, someday Google's decline will get bad enough people turn to other searches. Amazon's already infested with MBAs who have made the gross mistake of telling customers other online book dealers exist. Ebay could be wiped out if you were to power up a version free of drop shippers and spammers.  Just because they seem dominant doesn't make them so, as any user of Compuserve or Yahoo might remember.


I don't care if companies die eventually. So will I. Long spans of time isn't a saving grace.
 
2014-07-14 01:55:40 PM  

themindiswatching: subby once again confuses some random crackpot on Salon with the liberals


This.

One random crazy person wants to nationalize a bunch of companies and all of a sudden its a liberal conspiracy.
 
2014-07-14 01:58:16 PM  

jst3p: I am 39 and work in IT. I appreciate all the google has accomplished. That being said the statement " The modern internet owes its existence to the Google corporation to a FAR greater degree than the opposite." is still a dumb statement. Google is an impossibility without the internet, the reverse is not true.


Google has a fairly lucrative line of business handling server side stuff for intranets as well.  Of course without the internet...
 
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