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(CNN)   Dear Gaza, the bombing begins tonight. Anyone wishing not to die better clear out of town. Sincerely, Israel   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Gaza, Israelis, Iron Dome, United Nations Relief, Palestine Liberation Organization, UNRWA, ongoing military conflicts, Palestinian militants  
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5084 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2014 at 1:59 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-13 12:48:44 PM  
In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.
 
2014-07-13 12:56:26 PM  
Should they clear out through the checkpoints they can't pass or the blockaded sea ports?

The US did not back Israel at the United Nations for the first time in a long time. The resolution is to de-escalate. You would think that would send the current Israeli administration a message, but evidently not. Israel has a right to defend itself, but this would be so much more believable had they not responded to the kidnappings with mass collective punishment against Palestinian populations.

When has collective punishment ever been okay by modern standards? Israel used the kidnapping to arrest hundreds of Palestinians and bulldoze their homes. Let that sink in for a second:

Israel bulldozed the homes of suspects.

Not convicted criminals. They did this within hours of the kidnappings... While a Palestinian teen was burned to death, and they have six confessions, but all of those homes are still standing. A Florida teen may or may not have been throwing rocks with a slingshot, we don't have any hard evidence either way. What we do have evidence of is Israeli security officers beating him after he was subdued and in custody. All of these are human rights violations and evidence of systematic discrimination and racism. It's not okay.

Israel is the 'responsible' actor here. They hold all the marbles. Economically and militarily. If they really wanted to engage in a fruitful peace process they could, but they don't. Doesn't matter if there are terrorists on the otherside. That doesn't let you ignore human rights and apply the law subjectively. It certainly doesn't make collective punishment okay. None of this is okay. It's not okay to defend Israel anymore.

media2.giphy.com
 
2014-07-13 12:59:51 PM  

whistleridge: ..they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties.


i.imgur.com

Except for you know, actually allowing refugees to actually emigrate to Israel from their labor reservoirs (where they house the unemployed and release them when their labor was needed in 'Israel proper'.  I suppose they are.
 
2014-07-13 01:04:58 PM  

Alunan: You would think that would send the current Israeli administration a message, but evidently not.


Agreed. Bibi is very vulnerable from the political right at this moment and trying to build a broad coalition of public support to counter it. That is his concern.
 
2014-07-13 01:08:25 PM  

whistleridge: In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.


Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai during their last operation:

"On 17 November 2012, Yishai stated about Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years." He also was quoted as saying "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.""

I would be shocked if anything Israel does in the next few days could be considered reserved. Hamas needs to be reined in, but collective punishment is not okay. It's never okay. And when they destroy infrastructure like water, roads, and bridges, that is what they are doing.
 
2014-07-13 01:11:35 PM  

Somacandra: Alunan: You would think that would send the current Israeli administration a message, but evidently not.

Agreed. Bibi is very vulnerable from the political right at this moment and trying to build a broad coalition of public support to counter it. That is his concern.


It says something when he launches an invasion to build support on his left.

There is an Israeli government that can operate with the realm of human decency, but that coalition can never involve Likud or anything to the right. Netanyahu tried to get Obama thrown out of office, I hope Obama takes this opportunity to return the favor.
 
2014-07-13 01:12:05 PM  
Gazans should move to Beverly Hills.
 
2014-07-13 01:13:52 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-13 01:15:00 PM  

Alunan: whistleridge: In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai during their last operation:

"On 17 November 2012, Yishai stated about Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years." He also was quoted as saying "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.""

I would be shocked if anything Israel does in the next few days could be considered reserved. Hamas needs to be reined in, but collective punishment is not okay. It's never okay. And when they destroy infrastructure like water, roads, and bridges, that is what they are doing.


The problem is that Hamas is an insurgent terrorist group who bring a lot of the civilian casualties upon themselves by launching attacks from and storing arms in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.  If Hamas limited itself to traditional military installations and Israel as still attacking soft targets it would be easy to call Israel wrong - but that's not the case.

Hamas hides within the greater Palestinian community, and a lot of the Palestinians, even if they aren't taking up arms themselves, offer support to Hamas.

The only way I see this even being resolved is for one of the neighboring Islamic nations to either offer to take the Palestinians in or for Israel and its allies to buy the land from a neighboring country to resettle the Palestinians.  As long as the they insist on remaining on the land whose ownership is disputed we're going to see the conflict continue.
 
2014-07-13 01:18:50 PM  
Strange Israel dropped leaflets warning people to FLEE !
Gazan authorities ordered them to stay.

Sucks if you human shields run away!
 
2014-07-13 01:44:28 PM  

namatad: Strange Israel dropped leaflets warning people to FLEE !
Gazan authorities ordered them to stay.

Sucks if you human shields run away!


I'm in no way pro-Israel. They make blatant land-grabs, they grossly manipulate US politics and generally act to take advantage of us wherever possible, and are overtly militant.

So it's a good measure of just how much in the wrong Hamas is here, to say Israel is being balanced and sensible in its response.
 
2014-07-13 01:52:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Alunan: whistleridge: In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai during their last operation:

"On 17 November 2012, Yishai stated about Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years." He also was quoted as saying "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.""

I would be shocked if anything Israel does in the next few days could be considered reserved. Hamas needs to be reined in, but collective punishment is not okay. It's never okay. And when they destroy infrastructure like water, roads, and bridges, that is what they are doing.

The problem is that Hamas is an insurgent terrorist group who bring a lot of the civilian casualties upon themselves by launching attacks from and storing arms in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.  If Hama ...


Israel is still in the wrong. They might be justified if this operation actually stopped Hamas, but it won't and it never has. Israel has invaded numerous times and Hamas is evidently still there lobbying rockets over the border.

Hamas is always going to try to use human shields. Israel can play the role Hamas has set out for them, which is killer of human shields, or Israel can begin the hard and arduous task of actually trying to rebuild Gaza so extremism isn't so rampant.

All an invasion does is further tear down the already abysmal infrastructure in Gaza. The infrastructure needed to live life daily. That pushes more people into situations where they are used as human shields or actively join Hamas out of necessity.

Israel has the intelligence and perspective to know this, which means this invasion is being performed out of political convenience, not from any real desire to actually protect Israel for future rocket attacks. This invasion serves two purposes: strengthen Likud's coalition so a new election isn't called, keep Palestinians in their perpetual economic misery.
 
2014-07-13 01:59:26 PM  

Alunan: Israel is still in the wrong. They might be justified if this operation actually stopped Hamas, but it won't and it never has. Israel has invaded numerous times and Hamas is evidently still there lobbying rockets over the border.


YUP
The correct response is to CRUSH your enemy, kill them all and destroy what's left.
TADA
Problem solved.

Seriously, what is the point of war if you are not allowed to defeat your enemy?
STOP screwing around and wipe them out already.

/this shiat will never end
 
2014-07-13 02:03:44 PM  
There was also a coupon for $2 your next car wash attached.

Also what ever happened to that nutty pro-Israel guy who popped up in every Jewish thread? I miss him.
 
2014-07-13 02:04:17 PM  

whistleridge: namatad: Strange Israel dropped leaflets warning people to FLEE !
Gazan authorities ordered them to stay.

Sucks if you human shields run away!

I'm in no way pro-Israel. They make blatant land-grabs, they grossly manipulate US politics and generally act to take advantage of us wherever possible, and are overtly militant.

So it's a good measure of just how much in the wrong Hamas is here, to say Israel is being balanced and sensible in its response.


Would you say the balanced and sensible part was dropping leaflets telling people to flee, when the people in the region cannot flee because of Israeli blockades and locked down border checkpoints. Or perhaps the sensible part is that this is the latest in numerous invasions over the last decade that will again not stop Hamas rocket attacks and only destroy more of the Gaza Strip?

Three Israelis were kidnapped and killed, probably by Hamas. Israeli arrested hundreds and bulldozed the homes of the suspects. This inflamed the situation and gave Hamas the political excuse to launch hundreds of rockets. We know Hamas is a terrorist organization, we already try to isolate them. We certainly don't give them the aid and support we give Israel. Why is it okay to turn a blind eye to Israel when they orchestrate the whole situation? With collective punishment of bulldozing the homes of suspects, that doesn't sound legal under Israeli law to me! So does that mean Israeli law only applies to some people? Kind of sounds like apartheid to me. So why are we supporting an apartheid state with military equipment and funding? Why aren't we holding them to a higher standard?
 
2014-07-13 02:05:51 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Alunan: whistleridge: In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai during their last operation:

"On 17 November 2012, Yishai stated about Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years." He also was quoted as saying "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.""

I would be shocked if anything Israel does in the next few days could be considered reserved. Hamas needs to be reined in, but collective punishment is not okay. It's never okay. And when they destroy infrastructure like water, roads, and bridges, that is what they are doing.

The problem is that Hamas is an insurgent terrorist group who bring a lot of the civilian casualties upon themselves by launching attacks from and storing arms in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.  If Hamas limited itself to traditional military installations and Israel as still attacking soft targets it would be easy to call Israel wrong - but that's not the case.

Hamas hides within the greater Palestinian community, and a lot of the Palestinians, even if they aren't taking up arms themselves, offer support to Hamas.

The only way I see this even being resolved is for one of the neighboring Islamic nations to either offer to take the Palestinians in or for Israel and its allies to buy the land from a neighboring country to resettle the Palestinians.  As long as the they insist on remaining on the land whose ownership is disputed we're going to see the conflict continue.


Hama is actually worse than Clive Bundy in that regard
 
2014-07-13 02:06:57 PM  
And we back Israel unconditionally.

upload.wikimedia.org

241 US military died in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing...

Khobar Towers, USS Liberty...we just keep getting slaughtered because we give Israel money with no strings attached.
 
2014-07-13 02:07:46 PM  
Burn, Gaza, Burn!
 
2014-07-13 02:09:09 PM  
Hope they plan to let everybody watch the World Cup final before they kill them.
 
2014-07-13 02:10:32 PM  
CNN was pissing me off yesterday with their ticker. It was talking about the disparity between Gazan and Israeli rocket deaths and trying to drum up sympathy for Gaza.
 
2014-07-13 02:10:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Alunan: whistleridge: In fairness, this is actually discretion on Israel's part. Hamas started this, by shooting rockets, and Hamas can end this, by stopping with the rockets.

Israel isn't blameless, by any means, but...they do actually appear to be taking as many precautions as reasonable to limit civilian casualties. The problem is, Hamas is caught up in a internal political contest of 'who can outcrazy the other' with some rival groups that accuse them of being too warm and fuzzy towards Israel. They don't have the slightest interest in state building or peace making, only in trying to destroy Israel. Which they will never do.

The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.

This appears to be a lose-lose, for the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai during their last operation:

"On 17 November 2012, Yishai stated about Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years." He also was quoted as saying "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.""

I would be shocked if anything Israel does in the next few days could be considered reserved. Hamas needs to be reined in, but collective punishment is not okay. It's never okay. And when they destroy infrastructure like water, roads, and bridges, that is what they are doing.

The problem is that Hamas is an insurgent terrorist group who bring a lot of the civilian casualties upon themselves by launching attacks from and storing arms in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.  If Hama ...


There's also the small issue of simply launching rocket attacks from a place like Gaza, period. It's 139 square miles with a million people packed into it. You can't surgically bomb some place like that, no matter how hard you try. The population is simply too dense. By launching attacks from that area, Hamas invites civilian casualties.

The thing that amazes me is that Gaza residents will probably not see this for what they should, which is a sign that putting Hamas in charge was a huge mistake. I'm not saying Israel is blameless, but Hamas simply doesn't know when to quit. There is no benefit - tactical, strategic, or otherwise - from launching unguided rockets into Israeli cities from Gaza.
 
2014-07-13 02:11:02 PM  
x4.fjcdn.com
 
2014-07-13 02:12:12 PM  
i92.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-13 02:14:21 PM  
The Israelis could take a lesson from how the Brits handled Northern Ireland.

They didn't bomb the shiat out of them.

They invested in the economy.
 
2014-07-13 02:14:21 PM  
So a rabbi and a priest are talking one day and the priest reveals to the rabbi that that his son had recently traveled to Jerusalem afterwhich he renounced his Catholic faith and became a christian. The Rabbi exclaimed that the exact same thing happened to his son. They decide to pray and ask god why. God anwers them right away "funny you should ask..."
 
2014-07-13 02:16:17 PM  

Alunan: whistleridge: namatad: Strange Israel dropped leaflets warning people to FLEE !
Gazan authorities ordered them to stay.

Sucks if you human shields run away!

I'm in no way pro-Israel. They make blatant land-grabs, they grossly manipulate US politics and generally act to take advantage of us wherever possible, and are overtly militant.

So it's a good measure of just how much in the wrong Hamas is here, to say Israel is being balanced and sensible in its response.

Would you say the balanced and sensible part was dropping leaflets telling people to flee, when the people in the region cannot flee because of Israeli blockades and locked down border checkpoints. Or perhaps the sensible part is that this is the latest in numerous invasions over the last decade that will again not stop Hamas rocket attacks and only destroy more of the Gaza Strip?

Three Israelis were kidnapped and killed, probably by Hamas. Israeli arrested hundreds and bulldozed the homes of the suspects. This inflamed the situation and gave Hamas the political excuse to launch hundreds of rockets. We know Hamas is a terrorist organization, we already try to isolate them. We certainly don't give them the aid and support we give Israel. Why is it okay to turn a blind eye to Israel when they orchestrate the whole situation? With collective punishment of bulldozing the homes of suspects, that doesn't sound legal under Israeli law to me! So does that mean Israeli law only applies to some people? Kind of sounds like apartheid to me. So why are we supporting an apartheid state with military equipment and funding? Why aren't we holding them to a higher standard?


Because Hamas provoked this. Because Hamas can stop it at any time, simply by stopping their rocket attacks. Because any time Hamas wants to, they can undermine the entire Israeli position simply by disavowing terrorism and committing to a peaceful resolution.

But they choose not to. Israel are assholes, but they're also a sovereign and recognized democratic nation state, acting in its perceived best interests. The international community has limited leverage on their behavior.

Realistic policy says, Israel has the strength, but Hamas has the initiative. So the action has to start with them.
 
2014-07-13 02:19:30 PM  

Por que tan serioso: renounced his Catholic faith and became a christian


Huh?
 
2014-07-13 02:21:12 PM  
Good luck with that.  Hamas will likely kill anyone who tries to flee their civilian shield.
 
2014-07-13 02:22:48 PM  

whistleridge: Because Hamas provoked this. Because Hamas can stop it at any time, simply by stopping their rocket attacks. Because any time Hamas wants to, they can undermine the entire Israeli position simply by disavowing terrorism and committing to a peaceful resolution.


Why should they do this? Whenever the Palestinians have stopped using violence and tried to negotiate, two things have happened. First, the international community stopped paying attention. Second, the Israeli government dragged their feet and continued to make life unbearable for Palestinians while continuing to institute their apartheid state in the West Bank.

I'm often honestly surprised at how little violence the Palestinians use against Israel. Being a young Palestinian must be one of the most frustrating things in the world.
 
2014-07-13 02:24:45 PM  

whistleridge: Alunan: whistleridge: namatad: Strange Israel dropped leaflets warning people to FLEE !
Gazan authorities ordered them to stay.

Sucks if you human shields run away!

I'm in no way pro-Israel. They make blatant land-grabs, they grossly manipulate US politics and generally act to take advantage of us wherever possible, and are overtly militant.

So it's a good measure of just how much in the wrong Hamas is here, to say Israel is being balanced and sensible in its response.

Would you say the balanced and sensible part was dropping leaflets telling people to flee, when the people in the region cannot flee because of Israeli blockades and locked down border checkpoints. Or perhaps the sensible part is that this is the latest in numerous invasions over the last decade that will again not stop Hamas rocket attacks and only destroy more of the Gaza Strip?

Three Israelis were kidnapped and killed, probably by Hamas. Israeli arrested hundreds and bulldozed the homes of the suspects. This inflamed the situation and gave Hamas the political excuse to launch hundreds of rockets. We know Hamas is a terrorist organization, we already try to isolate them. We certainly don't give them the aid and support we give Israel. Why is it okay to turn a blind eye to Israel when they orchestrate the whole situation? With collective punishment of bulldozing the homes of suspects, that doesn't sound legal under Israeli law to me! So does that mean Israeli law only applies to some people? Kind of sounds like apartheid to me. So why are we supporting an apartheid state with military equipment and funding? Why aren't we holding them to a higher standard?

Because Hamas provoked this. Because Hamas can stop it at any time, simply by stopping their rocket attacks. Because any time Hamas wants to, they can undermine the entire Israeli position simply by disavowing terrorism and committing to a peaceful resolution.

But they choose not to. Israel are assholes, but they're also a sovereign and recog ...


Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a recognized government. Hamas receives no aid, Israel receives billions in aid. One of these organizations has the moral imperative and economic resources to take the initiative. Palestine != Hamas, and when you treat the situation as all Palestinians are to blame for a terrorist organization you (in this case Israel) are inviting the kind of death and destruction that leads to the situation. Israel perpetuates the situation by insisting a terrorist organization be the responsible party.

You *could* argue that since the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas that they are all to blame, but since Hamas was the only organization providing humanitarian services in the region that isn't much of a choice for the civilians who have to live there? And why do they have to live in a sealed-in hell hole where the only way to get food and supplies is to support Hamas? Because Israel makes it so. If Israel wanted to go into Gaza and create economy opportunity and build infrastructure they could. And that would solve a lot of problems, that would give Palestinians the choice. But they don't, for a variety of reasons.

So let's all stop pretending that its somehow okay to make a terrorist organization (in this case Hamas), the initiating party in all this. They are the symptom, the symptom created by Israeli policy and actions in the region, and the symptom that Israel uses to maintain the status quo. None of this is okay. Not the collective punishment, not the invasion, not the maintaining of Gaza as a modern day ghetto. Not the false equivalency of Israel and Hamas as equal actors with equal responsibilities. It's not okay to defend Israel anymore.
 
2014-07-13 02:26:59 PM  
King Obama has made Israel soft. A Muslim is a Muslim.
 
2014-07-13 02:28:56 PM  

DubyaHater: King Obama has made Israel soft. A Muslim is a Muslim.


Obama isn't King, Israel isn't soft, and a Muslim is a Muslim.

Hey you got one!
 
2014-07-13 02:29:59 PM  

eiger: whistleridge: Because Hamas provoked this. Because Hamas can stop it at any time, simply by stopping their rocket attacks. Because any time Hamas wants to, they can undermine the entire Israeli position simply by disavowing terrorism and committing to a peaceful resolution.

Why should they do this? Whenever the Palestinians have stopped using violence and tried to negotiate, two things have happened. First, the international community stopped paying attention. Second, the Israeli government dragged their feet and continued to make life unbearable for Palestinians while continuing to institute their apartheid state in the West Bank.

I'm often honestly surprised at how little violence the Palestinians use against Israel. Being a young Palestinian must be one of the most frustrating things in the world.


There is a big difference between 'temporarily halting the violence, but continuing to build rockets and train bombers' and 'renouncing terrorism'. Every argument used for Hamas today was used for IRA back in the day, but they never got peace until they disarmed.

Terrorism is good for headlines. It's good for promoting militant extremism. But there are zero historical examples of it winning a war, or securing a peace. As long as Hamas embrace a policy of terror, they'll never get anything out of Israel, temporary ceasefire or no.

And they'll continue to bleed territory in the West Bank, because Israeli conservative nut bags will use it as justification for more settlements.
 
2014-07-13 02:32:09 PM  
[I'm_ok_with_this.jpg]

Seriously.  If you live in Palestine and there are people shooting rockets at Israel from your neighborhood, tell them to leave.  Tell all of your neighbors to help you tell them that that is not ok.  If they continue, GTFO.  Sorry that you don't really have anywhere to go, but you ought not be there when the inevitable airstrikes turn your area into flaming rubble.

Be sure to point out to the media that you tried to get Hamas to stop using your school as a rocket base.  Otherwise you are complicit in their actions.  You're lucky to be warned and that Israel is making an effort for targeted strikes.
 
2014-07-13 02:36:51 PM  
Fark Israel.  They are in the top 10 most evil countries in the world, and by far the most evil that is also our ally.
 
2014-07-13 02:39:45 PM  
Not to get into the derpfest, but I have to admit, I like the "Knock on the roof" artillery attacks. That's an effective, yet messed up strategy.At least they're giving the targets a little time to flee. Not much though.
 
2014-07-13 02:41:32 PM  
 
2014-07-13 02:45:03 PM  

whistleridge: The reverse of that is, the Knesset is itself a hotbed of alternate crazy, and all this militancy does is make it easier for the ultra-conservatives to justify their illegal housing developments to themselves. If Hamas stopped with the shooting, and focused on things like infrastructure, schools, and developing robust civil functions, Israel would immediately be the bad guy, and they would win.


Would they? Do they even want to win what you believe they want? You don't even know why the Knesset has turned into a hotbed of ultra-conservative militant craziness, but I'll give you a free clue: it is, in fact, partly your own personal fault.

/of course you're only one raindrop in the flood
//but when the flood is flushed into the ocean, you will get flushed with it
///and naturally you will be screaming "COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT! WHY ME? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!" the whole way
 
2014-07-13 02:45:33 PM  
Israel is like that asshole that keeps a giant pen full of pit bulls, tortures them constantly, and whenever one snaps at him he slowly and brutally kills it while loudly proclaiming "You all saw it snap at me".

And we are the fark who gives him an allowance to keep up his operation, while threatening and calling names at anyone who has the gall to denounce him.
 
2014-07-13 02:46:01 PM  

Dave and the Mission: [I'm_ok_with_this.jpg]

Seriously.  If you live in Palestine and there are people shooting rockets at Israel from your neighborhood, tell them to leave.  Tell all of your neighbors to help you tell them that that is not ok.  If they continue, GTFO.  Sorry that you don't really have anywhere to go, but you ought not be there when the inevitable airstrikes turn your area into flaming rubble.

Be sure to point out to the media that you tried to get Hamas to stop using your school as a rocket base.  Otherwise you are complicit in their actions.  You're lucky to be warned and that Israel is making an effort for targeted strikes.


Really? This is neither realistic or appropriate. You wouldn't go out and tell armed gang members to get out of your neighborhood. You would call the police, well the police are Israel is this case and they aren't going to arrest the gang members, they are going to flatten then neighborhood with you in it. And if you try to leave they will stop you.

Stop being an idiot. This is not okay. It's not okay to defend Israel.
 
2014-07-13 02:53:20 PM  
Collective punishment of the inhabitants of a Gaza ghetto is NOT the same as collective punishment of the inhabitants of a Warsaw ghetto!

It's one solution, however. Just not the final solution.

/Hans, are we the baddies?
 
2014-07-13 02:53:44 PM  
Gotta love that the benchmark for Israel's behavior is being based on that of a terrorist organization.

This would be the equivalent of the police destroying an entire neighborhood because of a few violent gang members.

Then we'll be asked to feel sympathetic when one of these Palestinian kids grows up and tries to return the favor.

Whole lot of stupid on both sides over there.

As always...best to just nuke the whole region from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
 
2014-07-13 02:55:47 PM  

Por que tan serioso: So a rabbi and a priest are talking one day and the priest reveals to the rabbi that that his son had recently traveled to Jerusalem afterwhich he renounced his Catholic faith and became a christian. The Rabbi exclaimed that the exact same thing happened to his son. They decide to pray and ask god why. God anwers them right away "funny you should ask..."


You're gonna need to explain that one.  Especially for us folks who don't see a big difference between "catholic" and "christian".
 
2014-07-13 02:56:11 PM  
All religious affiliations aside,
I don't get fighting to the death over a useless stretch of sand.

It is pretty obvious neither side is going anywhere,
at this point, the hatred is ingrained in both.

I am pretty sure God, Jesus and the Prophet are sadly shaking their heads...
 
2014-07-13 02:56:39 PM  

namatad: Alunan: Israel is still in the wrong. They might be justified if this operation actually stopped Hamas, but it won't and it never has. Israel has invaded numerous times and Hamas is evidently still there lobbying rockets over the border.

YUP
The correct response is to CRUSH your enemy, kill them all and destroy what's left.
TADA
Problem solved.

Seriously, what is the point of war if you are not allowed to defeat your enemy?
STOP screwing around and wipe them out already.

/this shiat will never end


You do realize the Palestinians just were kicking back under British rule until it was decided to give the Jews back "their land" because they weren't welcome anywhere else. This is 100% Allies from WWII made problem.
 
2014-07-13 02:57:38 PM  

Abox: Good luck with that.  Hamas will likely kill anyone who tries to flee their civilian shield.


So with the urban gang violence analogy, it's as if the gang has hostages and the cops say "screw it, kill everyone".

There is no way to look at this in which what Israel is doing is OK.
 
2014-07-13 03:00:05 PM  

Prophet of Loss: namatad: Alunan: Israel is still in the wrong. They might be justified if this operation actually stopped Hamas, but it won't and it never has. Israel has invaded numerous times and Hamas is evidently still there lobbying rockets over the border.

YUP
The correct response is to CRUSH your enemy, kill them all and destroy what's left.
TADA
Problem solved.

Seriously, what is the point of war if you are not allowed to defeat your enemy?
STOP screwing around and wipe them out already.

/this shiat will never end

You do realize the Palestinians just were kicking back under British rule until it was decided to give the Jews back "their land" because they weren't welcome anywhere else. This is 100% Allies from WWII made problem.


Close but not quite that simple. There was an element of violent terrorism among the zionist ranks in the region that "encouraged" the British to hand it over.
 
2014-07-13 03:00:12 PM  
Israel has built a giant wall around the Palestinians, and won't let them leave.  They have created a 3rd world state inside the boundaries of their 1st world state. You do that with ANY subgroup of people, regardless of religious affiliation, and you will breed incredible amounts of resentment and anti-state activity.  There is almost zero hope of prosperity or success in Palestine due to sanctions imposed by Israel, so why not sit around and think of ways to kill as many Israelis as possible?

If Israel wants peace, people living in in Palestine need to have the ability to live prosperous, peaceful lives.  Right now, no matter how hard they try that just isn't possible.  So, no peace.  Israel holds all the power here in allowing their neighbors to have some semblance of a normal society.
 
2014-07-13 03:01:48 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Abox: Good luck with that.  Hamas will likely kill anyone who tries to flee their civilian shield.

So with the urban gang violence analogy, it's as if the gang has hostages and the cops say "screw it, kill everyone".

There is no way to look at this in which what Israel is doing is OK.


There's no reason to compare this to police action. It is military action and completely different.
 
2014-07-13 03:02:01 PM  

Hollie Maea: Israel is like that asshole that keeps a giant pen full of pit bulls, tortures them constantly, and whenever one snaps at him he slowly and brutally kills it while loudly proclaiming "You all saw it snap at me".

And we are the fark who gives him an allowance to keep up his operation, while threatening and calling names at anyone who has the gall to denounce him.


Yes.  Exactly.  Palestine is essentially the perfect model for a terrorist breeding ground, created by Israel.  Then, Palestine breeds terrorists and all of a sudden IT'S BABY MURDERING TIME.
 
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