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(Yahoo)   Like eleventy thousand kids atend unproducktive schools   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 32
    More: Asinine, TakePart, executive summary, Montgomery County  
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2383 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2014 at 1:59 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-07-13 11:26:46 AM
Hell, let's just throw more money at the problem. Isn't that the usual solution? It's definitely the usual complaint:

www.earthhouse.com
 
2014-07-13 12:32:42 PM
FTFA: Rather, write the report's authors, "districts are spending taxpayer money in ways that do not appear to dramatically boost reading and math scores, and some districts are able to gain similar levels of reading and math achievement with the same population of students but at lower levels of per-student spending."

The problem with that metric is that schools should do a lot more than focus on reading and math scores on state standardized tests. Spending on music, art, physical education, history, science, athletics, performing arts, agriculture, journalism, etc, is important to offering students opportunities to enrich their lives and round out their educations, but doesn't directly influence reading and math scores (though obviously some elements of those activities do use math and reading skills and could contribute to the student's greater understanding).

One of the big problems in education today  is focusing too much on test scores, reading and math in particular.  Yes, those things are important, but they should not be the only focus of a school.
 
2014-07-13 01:14:57 PM
lol like eleventy thousand and one dumass you get wat im sayin?
 
2014-07-13 01:23:44 PM
oh look, this problem still exists?

are most districts funded by property taxes?
get back to me when funding come solely from income tax and is uniform in all districts.

STRANGE, rich districts have better schools? YOU DONT SAY!
 
2014-07-13 02:06:39 PM
Well since education is just a waste of taxpayer money let's just give more money to the military.
 
2014-07-13 02:15:00 PM
Time to cut education again. These kids never learn.
 
2014-07-13 02:16:02 PM
I'd rather have unproductive schools then no schools atall
 
2014-07-13 02:19:14 PM

macross87: I'd rather have unproductive schools then no schools atall


Why do you hate the troops and/or job creators?
 
2014-07-13 02:20:38 PM

pjbreeze: Well since education is just a waste of taxpayer money let's just give more money to the military.


The only war our army has won in the last 70 years was against farking Grenada. Even our schools are more successful than that.
 
2014-07-13 02:20:51 PM
"Don't worry, 'scro. There are plenty of tards out there living really kickass lives."
"My first wife? Was tarded. She's a pilot now."
 
2014-07-13 02:21:06 PM

namatad: oh look, this problem still exists?

are most districts funded by property taxes?
get back to me when funding come solely from income tax and is uniform in all districts.

STRANGE, rich districts have better schools? YOU DONT SAY!


It's almost as though kids from higher socioeconomic groups have advantages over their less advantaged classmates.
 
2014-07-13 02:28:26 PM
Well we worked super hard to get rid of all the productive ones.  I wonder why American parents aren't patting themselves on the back.
 
2014-07-13 02:31:08 PM

pxlboy: It's almost as though kids from higher socioeconomic groups have advantages over their less advantaged classmates.


Actually, if you read the article it's about waste, and it explicitly says that it is a structural problem that afflicts schools catering to all income levels. It's curious that schools have money to waste considering that they're always begging for more.
 
2014-07-13 02:34:59 PM
Schools are not a for profit business, stop treating and measuring them like they are.
 
2014-07-13 02:35:34 PM
"students who receive subsidized meals-free or reduced-price school breakfasts or lunches-are more than twice as likely to attend school in a least-productive district"

So, it turns out that poverty and poor school outcomes are highly correlated?

blogs.qut.edu.au
 
2014-07-13 02:35:37 PM
Perhaps if we change the union rules to let bad teachers be fired, stop retiring people at 50, hold administrators accountable, and stop longevity pay, there's a chance........

Oh that's just crazy. Let's keep spending more than any other country for mediocrity.
 
2014-07-13 02:36:23 PM

NutWrench: "Don't worry, 'scro. There are plenty of tards out there living really kickass lives."
"My first wife? Was tarded. She's a pilot now."


Soon.
 
2014-07-13 02:36:52 PM

TuteTibiImperes: FTFA: Rather, write the report's authors, "districts are spending taxpayer money in ways that do not appear to dramatically boost reading and math scores, and some districts are able to gain similar levels of reading and math achievement with the same population of students but at lower levels of per-student spending."

The problem with that metric is that schools should do a lot more than focus on reading and math scores on state standardized tests. Spending on music, art, physical education, history, science, athletics, performing arts, agriculture, journalism, etc, is important to offering students opportunities to enrich their lives and round out their educations, but doesn't directly influence reading and math scores (though obviously some elements of those activities do use math and reading skills and could contribute to the student's greater understanding).

One of the big problems in education today  is focusing too much on test scores, reading and math in particular.  Yes, those things are important, but they should not be the only focus of a school.


What this "author" also seems to overlook as well is that different school districts have different needs. Some districts out in flat flyover country just have the occasional student angst rampage, and so don't spend money on security cameras, gates, metal detectors, police, etc. Districts in more populated areas spend more on these things.

There's more to running a school than books, a teacher and a building.
 
2014-07-13 02:40:08 PM

namatad: oh look, this problem still exists?

are most districts funded by property taxes?
get back to me when funding come solely from income tax and is uniform in all districts.

STRANGE, rich districts have better schools? YOU DONT SAY!


Oregon did that, everyone suffered (except commercial interests)

"http://www.osba.org/Resources/Article/Budget_and_Finance/History_of _sc hool_funding.aspx
A second ECONorthwest study (an analysis of K-12 funding), commissioned by OSBA, finds that between 1991 and 2001:
Statewide spending per student on special education programs increased about 14.3 percent annually since 1992, while spending on regular classroom instruction increased by 3 percent annually.
The state's 12-year-old school funding equalization formula has helped some of the state's school districts but hurt others. Districts that were well funded prior to equalization grew at a much slower pace than districts that were poorly funded.
Oregon's national ranking based on per-student expenditures dropped from 15th to 20th.
K-12 spending as a share of Oregonians' personal income fell from 4.6 percent to 4.2 percent while total personal income in the state increased annually by 5.7 percent. "

How about not solely relying on one form or another, but use a mix.  Property taxes fund the bulk, income tax revenue funds the gap.

Oregon is the bulk comes from income tax, but capital expenditures like facilities and books and equipment can come from property taxes
 
2014-07-13 02:41:19 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Perhaps if we change the union rules to let bad teachers be fired, stop retiring people at 50, hold administrators accountable, and stop longevity pay, there's a chance........

Oh that's just crazy. Let's keep spending more than any other country for mediocrity.


Because no teacher unions existed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
And they don't exist in countries that do a better job of educating their children, either.
Right?

/Take your flamebait back under the bridge with you.
 
2014-07-13 02:44:51 PM

meat0918: Schools are not a for profit business, stop treating and measuring them like they are.


What if we start treating them like they have our greatest resource in their care?
What if we treated them like they get more money per student than any other country?
What if we treated the administration like private company executives, and fired them for failure to perform?
What if we could fire unproductive teachers?
What if we treated them like, similar to the rest of the working people, they are not entitled?
What if teachers had to work year-round for year-round pay?
What if they worked to retirement age like the rest of us?

What if.
None of that will happen, we have what we have.
 
2014-07-13 02:46:18 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Perhaps if we change the union rules to let bad teachers be fired, stop retiring people at 50, hold administrators accountable, and stop longevity pay, there's a chance........

Oh that's just crazy. Let's keep spending more than any other country for mediocrity.

Because no teacher unions existed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
And they don't exist in countries that do a better job of educating their children, either.
Right?

/Take your flamebait back under the bridge with you.


Your words, the facts don't lie. We are failing our children. Actually you are.
 
2014-07-13 02:49:56 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: demaL-demaL-yeH: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Perhaps if we change the union rules to let bad teachers be fired, stop retiring people at 50, hold administrators accountable, and stop longevity pay, there's a chance........

Oh that's just crazy. Let's keep spending more than any other country for mediocrity.

Because no teacher unions existed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
And they don't exist in countries that do a better job of educating their children, either.
Right?

/Take your flamebait back under the bridge with you.

Your words, the facts don't lie. We are failing our children. Actually you are.


It's a plan to privatize our public education system, and you've fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Those other countries don't have health insurance and retirement taking a big wet bite out of their school budgets.
 
2014-07-13 02:50:45 PM

rumpelstiltskin: pjbreeze: Well since education is just a waste of taxpayer money let's just give more money to the military.

The only war our army has won in the last 70 years was against farking Grenada. Even our schools are more successful than that.


Yeah, it's not like we ejected the Iraqi army from Kuwait and eliminated them as a credible threat to the region in 1991 or anything.

/Amazing how well we do when we set achievable goals and then stop when we've met hem.
 
2014-07-13 02:52:43 PM

Mad_Radhu: rumpelstiltskin: pjbreeze: Well since education is just a waste of taxpayer money let's just give more money to the military.

The only war our army has won in the last 70 years was against farking Grenada. Even our schools are more successful than that.

Yeah, it's not like we ejected the Iraqi army from Kuwait and eliminated them as a credible threat to the region in 1991 or anything.

/Amazing how well we do when we set achievable goals and then stop when we've met hem.


What, 100% passing a standardized test is an unachievable goal?

I'd like to see what happens if you ditch the standardized tests and just let a teacher teach their classes, rather than teaching how to pass a test.

I think they should offer hazard pay to good teachers willing to move to poorer performing districts.
 
2014-07-13 03:12:10 PM

meat0918: Whatchoo Talkinbout: demaL-demaL-yeH: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Perhaps if we change the union rules to let bad teachers be fired, stop retiring people at 50, hold administrators accountable, and stop longevity pay, there's a chance........

Oh that's just crazy. Let's keep spending more than any other country for mediocrity.

Because no teacher unions existed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
And they don't exist in countries that do a better job of educating their children, either.
Right?

/Take your flamebait back under the bridge with you.

Your words, the facts don't lie. We are failing our children. Actually you are.

It's a plan to privatize our public education system, and you've fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Those other countries don't have health insurance and

retirement taking a big wet bite out of their school budgets.

Wrong again, but you're used to that. I want accountability. Period. This system has found numerous ways to dodge it, which I saw from the inside.
However, retiring perfectly healthy people at 50, and then to pay for it 20-30 years seems unrealistic at best.
 
2014-07-13 03:43:53 PM

meat0918: It's a plan to privatize our public education system


Well public schools aren't working in some places, so by all means let's stick with the same shiat that doesn't work.  I don't really give a shiat if schools get privatized or not, but let's do farking SOMETHING about our shiatty schools.  More money doesn't work, whatever the fark the teachers' unions want doesn't work, so what the fark do we do?
 
2014-07-13 03:53:10 PM

Lsherm: meat0918: It's a plan to privatize our public education system

Well public schools aren't working in some places, so by all means let's stick with the same shiat that doesn't work.  I don't really give a shiat if schools get privatized or not, but let's do farking SOMETHING about our shiatty schools.  More money doesn't work, whatever the fark the teachers' unions want doesn't work, so what the fark do we do?


Realize that the problem may not be in the schools themselves.  Most problems in schools stem from problems in the students' home lives.  When the parents don't support education, don't communicate with the teachers or follow up with discipline at home when the students act out in school, don't teach their kids that education is important, help with homework, or hold the kids accountable for bad grades, the school becomes hamstrung.

We either need to hold parents legally accountable for their kids failings in school, or we need to allow public schools to more easily expel problem students so that those who want to be there can get a quality education.
 
2014-07-13 03:54:25 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Wrong again, but you're used to that. I want accountability. Period. This system has found numerous ways to dodge it, which I saw from the inside.


The single most important factor in academic success for children, outweighing even poverty, is parents who are actively involved with their children.
Helicopter and involved are two very different animals, by the way.

/Seriously, get the fark back under your bridge: Your union-bashing and talk of "accountability" is a dead giveaway, shill.
 
2014-07-13 04:43:01 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: What if we could fire unproductive teachers?


What is an "unproductive" teacher" Is that a teacher that fails to put out their quota of widgets? Is that a teacher that doesn't fill out their TPS reports in triplicate? I'm really looking for an answer to this, because what you fail to understand is that what is being dealt with here are human minds, aka people. People who do what they want to do and which come in infinite variety, levels of intelligence, personality and temperment. If your whelp doesn't like a particular teacher for whatever reason and chooses not to learn what is being taught, is that the teacher's fault or your offspring's? Should the teacher seek to compensate for all the crap that may be going on the child's home before they even get to school?

If the instructor is following the guidelines set up by ineffective and wasteful school boards, asshole politicians who want to make their bones by denigrating teachers, and moron parent groups who want "Jesus rode a dinosaur" taught as science, then they are doing their jobs to the best of their ability. Someone who does not want to learn will not learn, and they cannot be held responsible for your child's stupidity. A new teacher will not solve that problem, only a parent can, and they are not substitute parents.

Public schools are not factories (and for that matter neither are colleges and universities) and it's about farking time people stopped treating students as "product".
 
2014-07-13 06:59:19 PM
rewind2846 - Public schools are not factories (and for that matter neither are colleges and universities) and it's about farking time people stopped treating students as "product".

When you get the corporate mentality out of our societal model you might have a chance with that, but since we know this is not going to happen in this greedy, capitalistic society, you are merely dreaming like the rest of us who agree with you. As long as there are two justice systems (the moneyed and the money-less), a money-induced class system (which the majority of the population seems to have no problem with, even those who suffer greatly under it), and some people who want everything to be like a corporate bureaucracy (even welfare and unemployment, which most of us PAID FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE and yet cannot access for some reason), expecting to be treated like a human being is almost laughable. No, it IS laughable... I have seen more people throw money at a cat that was grazed by a car than starving people on the street. I would be holding my sides laughing now if it were not for having to hold my aching back and cry.
 
2014-07-14 11:47:16 AM
Article sounds retarded.

African American children are eight times more likely to be enrolled in poor-performing districts than their white peers.

African American children score way below whites at any level.  For example, middle-school black boys score about three grades below white boys.  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/education/09gap.html

So if you have a lot of African American children in your district, it is going to be "poor-performing" measured by test scores pretty much by definition.


"Many affluent districts, whether it was Scarsdale or Montgomery County, they didn't do poorly. They have high achievement, but they're also spending a lot, so that makes them not as productive,"

Also idiotic.  Montgomery County has a ton of money, so they spend a lot of it making sure that their schools are pleasant, attractive places to be.  Why not?  That's where their kids are spending a lot of their youth.  As someone pointed out already, measuring schools as if they were private businesses is just idiotic.
 
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