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(Russia Today)   NSA Whistleblower: Metadata shmetadata, they're storing the entire content of 80% of the world's phone calls   (rt.com) divider line 191
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6235 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2014 at 9:13 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-13 04:28:23 AM  
When thumb drives hit 1Tb, I knew there was going to be trouble.
 
2014-07-13 05:01:07 AM  
Onoes, Obama knows what I ordered on my pizza last night.
 
2014-07-13 07:25:12 AM  
Kill them. Kill them all now. If I had the money, I would buy every grocery store within 200 miles of that big data warehouse they built in Utah and put "NSA employees not welcome" signs in all the windows. Starve the bastards out.
 
2014-07-13 08:20:02 AM  
This guy last worked for the NSA in 2001. There is literally no reason to believe he's not full of shiat.
 
2014-07-13 08:42:17 AM  

Rincewind53: This guy last worked for the NSA in 2001. There is literally no reason to believe he's not full of shiat.


Because storage has gotten bulkier and more expensive since then?

I have no idea if this dude's credible. But, from the tech side, his claims are plausible.
 
2014-07-13 08:46:22 AM  
I'm sure that liar, lunatic and fame-whore Glenn Greenwald won't hesitate to hitch his wagon to this guy's star...
 
2014-07-13 08:55:42 AM  

Gonz: Rincewind53: This guy last worked for the NSA in 2001. There is literally no reason to believe he's not full of shiat.

Because storage has gotten bulkier and more expensive since then?

I have no idea if this dude's credible. But, from the tech side, his claims are plausible.


I guess some of us have a tough time connecting cheaper storage with the supreme court enabling them in a scheme for total population control
 
2014-07-13 08:57:27 AM  
The former code-breaker says the spy agency's ultimate aim is no less than total population control.

Hyperbole makes the rest of your argument look specious.

Even if they are storing all that, first, it would hardly worth going through it since the signal to noise ratio of most speech is about 1:1000000 and, secondly, of the signal part, about 1/1000000 would be of interest to the NSA, and thirdly, how the hell do you get "total population control" from that, anyway?
 
2014-07-13 09:08:24 AM  

MrBallou: The former code-breaker says the spy agency's ultimate aim is no less than total population control.

Hyperbole makes the rest of your argument look specious.

Even if they are storing all that, first, it would hardly worth going through it since the signal to noise ratio of most speech is about 1:1000000 and, secondly, of the signal part, about 1/1000000 would be of interest to the NSA, and thirdly, how the hell do you get "total population control" from that, anyway?


Leverage
mygeekblasphemy.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-13 09:16:49 AM  

MrBallou: The former code-breaker says the spy agency's ultimate aim is no less than total population control.

Hyperbole makes the rest of your argument look specious.

Even if they are storing all that, first, it would hardly worth going through it since the signal to noise ratio of most speech is about 1:1000000 and, secondly, of the signal part, about 1/1000000 would be of interest to the NSA, and thirdly, how the hell do you get "total population control" from that, anyway?


Easy, jus
 
2014-07-13 09:17:15 AM  
Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?
 
2014-07-13 09:22:55 AM  
I'm going back to carrier pigeons.

/Fark the NSA
 
2014-07-13 09:23:35 AM  

Nefarious: how the hell do you get "total population control" from that, anyway?


Leverage


Indeed. Think J. Edgar Hoover's methods without all the needed investigative manpower.
 
2014-07-13 09:25:28 AM  
Total. Population. Control.

See, this is the kind of word choice that makes a guy like this sound like a crackpot. Wtf does that even mean? A phrase like that evokes the most dystopian imaginings of science fiction, and nobody takes that kind of hyperbole seriously.

If he wants to have any real effect on the public's threat perception, he needs to dial it back.
 
2014-07-13 09:26:46 AM  

Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?


Apparently all the government shills we see in these threads think it's just spiffy.

Meanwhile, the FBI can get a terrorist handed to them on a silver farking platter and they won't do anything until AFTER the guy blows up a marathon.

So they collect all of this data and the one thing we know it's not being used for is national security.
 
2014-07-13 09:28:04 AM  
Hey congress, Look!  An actual, bona fide reason to impeach Obama! Look!  Look....


...And they clearly don't give a shiat.  Goddamnit so much.
 
2014-07-13 09:28:20 AM  

Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?


That one's the easy question. The harder question is: Where is Binney's evidence?
 
2014-07-13 09:28:31 AM  

Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?


Headline says "80% of the World's", which could mean they record all the foreign phone calls, but not the purely domestic ones.

That, in essence, is the job of the NSA:  To listen to foreign communications.  That's what we pay them to do.

If, on the other hand, they are recording domestic calls, even if they don't analyze them without a FISA warrant, that's still wrong.  They shouldn't even be *COLLECTING* on United States Persons without a FISA warrant specifically saying who they are targeting and and *WHY*.
 
2014-07-13 09:30:37 AM  

Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?


Apparently some farkers do.... not I though... without the constitution, we may as well just go to anarchy, they're destroying the nation... whatever their motives and rationale for destroying the fourth amendment, they're doing it, and it will be the end of our once proud empire.
 
2014-07-13 09:30:47 AM  
So the same government who for that last 13 years has been totally incompetent in keeping it's population feed and healthy, incompetent keeping illegal immigration to a minimum, incompetent when trying to manage the national debt, incompetent on keeping the economy stable and strong, incompetent in foreign affairs, incompetent to keep crime to a minimum is totally competent enough to record 80% of all cell phone calls for nefarious purposes.
 
2014-07-13 09:31:41 AM  
rt.com

www.zuguide.com
 
2014-07-13 09:32:29 AM  

dittybopper: Headline says "80% of the World's", which could mean they record all the foreign phone calls, but not the purely domestic ones.

That, in essence, is the job of the NSA:  To listen to foreign communications.  That's what we pay them to do.


80% of the world's phone traffic comes through the U.S. telecom systems. That includes 100% of the domestic traffic.
 
2014-07-13 09:33:21 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Total. Population. Control.

See, this is the kind of word choice that makes a guy like this sound like a crackpot. Wtf does that even mean? A phrase like that evokes the most dystopian imaginings of science fiction, and nobody takes that kind of hyperbole seriously.

If he wants to have any real effect on the public's threat perception, he needs to dial it back.



He was there when they coined "Total Information Awareness"...in fact he probably came up with that term, too.
 
2014-07-13 09:33:38 AM  

Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?


Acceptable? No, not in the least.

And if I'd been in charge of the NSA, it's exactly what I would have done. It doesn't cost much, it doesn't take up much space, and, if 5 years down the road, you get a hunch that a phone call that seemed innocuous might actually be some sort of code word, you've got it on file.
 
2014-07-13 09:36:06 AM  

dennysgod: So the same government who for that last 13 years has been totally incompetent in keeping it's population feed and healthy, incompetent keeping illegal immigration to a minimum, incompetent when trying to manage the national debt, incompetent on keeping the economy stable and strong, incompetent in foreign affairs, incompetent to keep crime to a minimum is totally competent enough to record 80% of all cell phone calls for nefarious purposes.


On the other hand, Manhattan project. Apollo program, etc. Apollo was what - $20 billion total? NSA's number probably makes that look like pennies.
 
2014-07-13 09:38:01 AM  

dennysgod: So the same government who for that last 13 years has been totally incompetent in keeping it's population feed and healthy, incompetent keeping illegal immigration to a minimum, incompetent when trying to manage the national debt, incompetent on keeping the economy stable and strong, incompetent in foreign affairs, incompetent to keep crime to a minimum is totally competent enough to record 80% of all cell phone calls for nefarious purposes.



you forgot, put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago. Recording phone calls is harder than that?
 
2014-07-13 09:41:31 AM  
I just found out everything I've ever written with a pen is being stored on pieces of paper.

90 percent of all computer files I've ever created are being warehoused on hard drives somewhere.

And 100 percent of everything I've ever consumed has been filed away as fecal matter at my local sanitary sewage station!

THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!
 
2014-07-13 09:42:04 AM  
Saving data to retrieve it later?

Sure, we do that. I swear.
i1280.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-13 09:43:39 AM  
Obama already fixed the NSA. Stop whining.
 
2014-07-13 09:44:16 AM  

dennysgod: So the same government who for that last 13 years has been totally incompetent in keeping it's population feed and healthy, incompetent keeping illegal immigration to a minimum, incompetent when trying to manage the national debt, incompetent on keeping the economy stable and strong, incompetent in foreign affairs, incompetent to keep crime to a minimum is totally competent enough to record 80% of all cell phone calls for nefarious purposes.


What are you trying to say?
 
2014-07-13 09:45:33 AM  

Christian Bale: you forgot, put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago. Recording phone calls is harder than that?


I'm skeptical....does anyone have any idea how much data just a month worth of 80% of the world's phone calls would be?

I don't, but you not only do you have to store it, you should probably have a good backup strategy, which is going to at least double the storage requirements.
 
2014-07-13 09:46:45 AM  

Gonz: Rincewind53: This guy last worked for the NSA in 2001. There is literally no reason to believe he's not full of shiat.

Because storage has gotten bulkier and more expensive since then?

I have no idea if this dude's credible. But, from the tech side, his claims are plausible.


The storage improvements after that are part of the problem.  It's not nearly so plausible that the NSA could do this in 2001.  The storage requirements would have been extreme, and the analysis requirements necessary to make it not utterly pointless...  even if they could manage, it would have taken a long while to develop it; not an instantaneous response to 9/11.  Maybe they could do it now, but for his claim to be grounded in anything, they'd have needed to be able to do it in 2001.  That's quite a ways back, tech wise.  They did not even have Serial ATA until 2003.
 
2014-07-13 09:47:47 AM  
Remember when they said "Don't worry folks. This is all just to fight terrorists".

OBVIOUS thing was, they're just about to label everything you do as "Terrorism". Like you. Yes, YOU! We saw you looking at articles about Occupy Wall Street a couple of years ago. We haven't forgotten that. We haven't forgiven either.

Corporations are people, my friend.
 
2014-07-13 09:48:14 AM  
Is there a link to a different news source with this same story?
 
2014-07-13 09:49:36 AM  

dennysgod: So the same government who for that last 13 years has been totally incompetent in keeping it's population feed and healthy, incompetent keeping illegal immigration to a minimum, incompetent when trying to manage the national debt, incompetent on keeping the economy stable and strong, incompetent in foreign affairs, incompetent to keep crime to a minimum is totally competent enough to record 80% of all cell phone calls for nefarious purposes.


Collecting data takes no competence. Somebody could just set the system up to automatically collect it all and archive it in case they ever need it in the future.
 
2014-07-13 09:49:40 AM  

Christian Bale: rzrwiresunrise: Total. Population. Control.

See, this is the kind of word choice that makes a guy like this sound like a crackpot. Wtf does that even mean? A phrase like that evokes the most dystopian imaginings of science fiction, and nobody takes that kind of hyperbole seriously.

If he wants to have any real effect on the public's threat perception, he needs to dial it back.


He was there when they coined "Total Information Awareness"...in fact he probably came up with that term, too.


That's fine and dandy. Total Information Awareness ≠ Total Population Control, whatever one can dream that that means.
 
2014-07-13 09:50:34 AM  
"The Fisa court has only the government's point of view," he said. "There are no other views for the judges to consider. There have been at least 15-20 trillion constitutional violations for US domestic audiences and you can double that globally."

So that's bad, right?
 
2014-07-13 09:51:34 AM  

gfid: Christian Bale: you forgot, put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago. Recording phone calls is harder than that?

I'm skeptical....does anyone have any idea how much data just a month worth of 80% of the world's phone calls would be?

I don't, but you not only do you have to store it, you should probably have a good backup strategy, which is going to at least double the storage requirements.


The analysis, organization, and access requirements add a lot too - especially for audio or video...  without an awful good program that data would be almost as good as nothing.  Even now you hit some serious hurdles with far less data than that, must less a decade ago.
 
2014-07-13 09:51:47 AM  

Badafuco: I'm going back to carrier pigeons.

/Fark the NSA


Jokes on you, the NSA hired all carrier pigeons to be spies for them.
 
2014-07-13 09:51:54 AM  

FarkingReading: I just found out everything I've ever written with a pen is being stored on pieces of paper.

90 percent of all computer files I've ever created are being warehoused on hard drives somewhere.

And 100 percent of everything I've ever consumed has been filed away as fecal matter at my local sanitary sewage station!

THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!


Sounds like a lot of shiat to me.
 
2014-07-13 09:53:36 AM  
Pretty much everything anyone ever does online is tracked by facebook and/or google and used to more effectively annoy them with ads to take money out of their pockets that they otherwise wouldn't have spent.

Go get outraged about that and then maybe we can talk about what's being stored about you in some gigantic database that with probability 1 will never once be used or accessed again after it's written to disk.
 
2014-07-13 09:53:51 AM  

Moopy Mac: Is there a link to a different news source with this same story?


This. Russia Today is just the modern Kremlin mouthpiece.
 
2014-07-13 09:54:11 AM  
Could someone tell them to check my Farmville more often.  All my corn was dead this morning.
 
2014-07-13 09:55:07 AM  

Gonz: Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?

Acceptable? No, not in the least.

And if I'd been in charge of the NSA, it's exactly what I would have done. It doesn't cost much, it doesn't take up much space, and, if 5 years down the road, you get a hunch that a phone call that seemed innocuous might actually be some sort of code word, you've got it on file.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20 13 0805
 
2014-07-13 09:57:38 AM  

Riche: Hey congress, Look!  An actual, bona fide reason to impeach Obama! Look!  Look....



And yet everyone stil owns their guns, kids aren't being forced to gay-marry at an altar of Satan, and FEMA Happy Camps still don't exist.

For a dictatorial despot, Fartbongo sure is being slow getting his ass in gear. What's the holdup?
 
2014-07-13 09:57:40 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Total. Population. Control.

See, this is the kind of word choice that makes a guy like this sound like a crackpot. Wtf does that even mean? A phrase like that evokes the most dystopian imaginings of science fiction, and nobody takes that kind of hyperbole seriously.

If he wants to have any real effect on the public's threat perception, he needs to dial it back.


It's not him needs to dial it back, it's Russia Times. A better article on Binney and his thoughts can be found here.
 
2014-07-13 10:01:07 AM  

dittybopper: Nabb1: Does anyone think recording 80% of all phone calls made in the US is acceptable even if the NSA isn't really trying or able to control the whole population?

Headline says "80% of the World's", which could mean they record all the foreign phone calls, but not the purely domestic ones.

That, in essence, is the job of the NSA:  To listen to foreign communications.  That's what we pay them to do.

If, on the other hand, they are recording domestic calls, even if they don't analyze them without a FISA warrant, that's still wrong.  They shouldn't even be *COLLECTING* on United States Persons without a FISA warrant specifically saying who they are targeting and and *WHY*.


Assuming there is any validity to that 80% stat! I don't see how they could be avoiding the US.
Its one of the largest wired populations on the planet and the vast majority of calls are domestic. We put global electronic communication into one bucket, I wouldn't be surprised if we're well over 20%. Its also the easiest to tap into since its on our soil.
It's not so easy to open a big data pipe to Asia and expect it to go unnoticed.

This sort of thing may be what we pay them to do, but its also very shady and easily prone to abuse. The fact that its kept secret means we'll never know if they're using the capability for good or evil.
Where politicians are involved, presume corruption at the very least.

/total population control is the goal of every other government.
/which world power wouldn't want to secure its own dominance?
/that's nothing unusual. What's more alarming is how little outrage this is drawing.
 
2014-07-13 10:01:39 AM  
I call BS on this. It would take the equivalent of all the worlds output in hard drive production in order to do this.

rzrwiresunrise: Christian Bale: rzrwiresunrise: Total. Population. Control.

See, this is the kind of word choice that makes a guy like this sound like a crackpot. Wtf does that even mean? A phrase like that evokes the most dystopian imaginings of science fiction, and nobody takes that kind of hyperbole seriously.

If he wants to have any real effect on the public's threat perception, he needs to dial it back.


He was there when they coined "Total Information Awareness"...in fact he probably came up with that term, too.

That's fine and dandy. Total Information Awareness ≠ Total Population Control, whatever one can dream that that means.


It's all fun and games till they start recruiting the children to turn their parents in.
 
2014-07-13 10:02:09 AM  
They are sifting through communications for evidence that THE ONE has returned so every country that can will instantly launch nukes to kill him/her/it.
 
2014-07-13 10:02:17 AM  

dookdookdook: Pretty much everything anyone ever does online is tracked by facebook and/or google and used to more effectively annoy them with ads to take money out of their pockets that they otherwise wouldn't have spent.

Go get outraged about that and then maybe we can talk about what's being stored about you in some gigantic database that with probability 1 will never once be used or accessed again after it's written to disk.


The constitution be damned, we have ads to worry about people.
 
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