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(Medium)   How deep does the multiverse go? Finally, I've learned the difference between what's accepted, what's speculative, and what's just math-sturbation   (medium.com) divider line 83
    More: Cool, Cosmic Inflation, quantum field theory, multiverse, fundamental constants, physical constant, cosmic microwave background, Milky Way, Universe Today  
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4701 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Jul 2014 at 5:50 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-12 04:31:05 PM  
It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist
 
2014-07-12 04:59:03 PM  
I prefer Elrics all the way down

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-12 04:59:58 PM  
Ooo, oo, oo here we go!

i1125.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-12 06:12:51 PM  
Yusharisp says it's all going to end anyway.
 
2014-07-12 06:34:12 PM  
cdn.obsidianportal.com
 
2014-07-12 07:11:11 PM  

schnee: It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist


Yes, and then it expanded at all points.
 
2014-07-12 07:12:39 PM  

schnee: It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist


Also, if you want your mind blown, if the universe isn't infinite (which is possible) it's roughly as much bigger than the observable universe as the observable universe is bigger than you.
 
2014-07-12 07:13:39 PM  
Shenanigans.

There's no way all this happened in 6,000 years.
 
2014-07-12 08:14:02 PM  

Boojum2k: schnee: It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist

Also, if you want your mind blown, if the universe isn't infinite (which is possible) it's roughly as much bigger than the observable universe as the observable universe is bigger than you.


That statement used a part of my brain that is usually only used when I'm high.
 
2014-07-12 08:25:30 PM  

AngryDragon: Shenanigans.

There's no way all this happened in 6,000 years.


The big bang travelled faster than light?
 
2014-07-12 08:36:46 PM  
Yes...and these are "physical" universes.  That is outside our own.

Not "probable" universes.  Which would be overlapping.


Both could be true.


Or even more strange...they could be both at the same time.


And that's not even noting "alternative" which would be a whole different context and definition.
 
2014-07-12 08:38:32 PM  
The more important question is where can we find a Barry Allen to save us all when the skies turn red?
 
2014-07-12 08:41:47 PM  
You see, the Universe is expanding today-and has ever since the Big Bang-in direct relation to the amount of matter and energy present in the Universe. When it was younger, hotter, denser and more energetic, the expansion rate was faster.

Wait... isn't the rate of expansion accelerating? Because all points of the universe are simultaneously expanding, and therefore the further away the faster an object continues to move away from a reference point, which places further space between the object and the reference point, thereby increasing the amount of space expanding...?
 
2014-07-12 08:47:48 PM  

Vangor: You see, the Universe is expanding today-and has ever since the Big Bang-in direct relation to the amount of matter and energy present in the Universe. When it was younger, hotter, denser and more energetic, the expansion rate was faster.

Wait... isn't the rate of expansion accelerating? Because all points of the universe are simultaneously expanding, and therefore the further away the faster an object continues to move away from a reference point, which places further space between the object and the reference point, thereby increasing the amount of space expanding...?


There was an inflationary period just after the Big Bang where the Universe doubled in size 37 times in a nanosecond, or some other mind-bogglingly (probably more than my example) large amount. The rate of expansion slowed after that, but now it appears that it is speeding up again.
 
2014-07-12 08:54:58 PM  

New Farkin User Name: There was an inflationary period just after the Big Bang where the Universe doubled in size 37 times in a nanosecond, or some other mind-bogglingly (probably more than my example) large amount. The rate of expansion slowed after that, but now it appears that it is speeding up again.


AFAIK in the first few milliseconds after the BB, it expanded at faster-than-light speed (as I think recently read), and universal forces were formed, separating magnetics from gravity, before or after strong and weak nuclear forces were created, probably after. Then atoms started forming because the material had lost sufficient heat and been blasted a bajillion miles an hour from its source. But it's expansion speed slowed to a speed below that of light. Obviously.

Then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat and all turned to oil
 
2014-07-12 08:56:36 PM  
New Farkin User Name:There was an inflationary period just after the Big Bang where the Universe doubled in size 37 times in a nanosecond, or some other mind-bogglingly (probably more than my example) large amount. The rate of expansion slowed after that, but now it appears that it is speeding up again.

Interesting... I was not aware of this. Although the article still appears to imply the expansion rate is slowing due to reduced matter and energy density
 
2014-07-12 09:07:43 PM  
It's all a simulation anyway.
 
2014-07-12 09:33:07 PM  
How deep does the multiverse go?

4.bp.blogspot.com

Potato.
 
2014-07-12 09:41:55 PM  
That a lot of conjecture, but for once, it's sound conjecture. No drake equations, a firm denial of math as science, and a picture of a stepper.
 
2014-07-12 09:44:37 PM  
37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-12 09:47:42 PM  

Mad_Radhu: How deep does the multiverse go?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1332]

Potato.


Didn't know that "plans" for a stepper were actually released.
 
2014-07-12 09:58:40 PM  

phillydrifter: New Farkin User Name: There was an inflationary period just after the Big Bang where the Universe doubled in size 37 times in a nanosecond, or some other mind-bogglingly (probably more than my example) large amount. The rate of expansion slowed after that, but now it appears that it is speeding up again.

AFAIK in the first few milliseconds after the BB, it expanded at faster-than-light speed (as I think recently read), and universal forces were formed, separating magnetics from gravity, before or after strong and weak nuclear forces were created, probably after. Then atoms started forming because the material had lost sufficient heat and been blasted a bajillion miles an hour from its source. But it's expansion speed slowed to a speed below that of light. Obviously.

Then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat and all turned to oil


Leo's inflationary.
 
2014-07-12 10:00:32 PM  

some_beer_drinker: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]


I think that is my favorite scene of all of TV'dom.
 
2014-07-12 10:05:07 PM  
Dude, there's a universe in all of us.
 
2014-07-12 10:18:32 PM  
Call me when they figure out the Cineverse.

g-ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-07-12 10:35:49 PM  
Okay, this one is a hangover product.

Redshift indicates the more distant objects are moving away from us at increasing speeds, to the extent that objects redshift right into the infrared. Extrapolate that, and out there are objects moving at fractions of the speed of light WRT us. Push to infinity, an mix in Lorentzian contraction, and the infinite universe is a flat wall, from our perspective. That doesn't experience duration due to moving at the speed of light.

Now for the hangover. Those objects out toward infinity aren't experiencing time dilation or contraction from their own view point, we are.
 
2014-07-12 11:03:01 PM  
There are only so many possible configurations of space time. In example. if you have 3 pennies, you can only arrange them a few ways before you start to see repeats in the pattern of heads/tails.

If the universe is infinite, its possible there is another exact copy of Earth out there including you.
 
2014-07-12 11:11:11 PM  
All the answers are here http://www.multiverse.org/
 
2014-07-12 11:13:00 PM  

schnee: It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist


dark energy
 
2014-07-12 11:20:49 PM  

wildcardjack: Okay, this one is a hangover product.

Redshift indicates the more distant objects are moving away from us at increasing speeds, to the extent that objects redshift right into the infrared. Extrapolate that, and out there are objects moving at fractions of the speed of light WRT us. Push to infinity, an mix in Lorentzian contraction, and the infinite universe is a flat wall, from our perspective. That doesn't experience duration due to moving at the speed of light.

Now for the hangover. Those objects out toward infinity aren't experiencing time dilation or contraction from their own view point, we are.


Yes. One of the core principles of cosmology is that the universe is isotropic, that we aren't special and there isn't really a center of the universe. At any location in the Universe it appears most other places are moving away from you.
 
2014-07-12 11:23:16 PM  

phillydrifter: New Farkin User Name: There was an inflationary period just after the Big Bang where the Universe doubled in size 37 times in a nanosecond, or some other mind-bogglingly (probably more than my example) large amount. The rate of expansion slowed after that, but now it appears that it is speeding up again.

AFAIK in the first few milliseconds after the BB, it expanded at faster-than-light speed (as I think recently read), and universal forces were formed, separating magnetics from gravity, before or after strong and weak nuclear forces were created, probably after. Then atoms started forming because the material had lost sufficient heat and been blasted a bajillion miles an hour from its source. But it's expansion speed slowed to a speed below that of light. Obviously.

Then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat and all turned to oil


brooksfile.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-12 11:29:10 PM  
wildcardjack:

Now for the hangover. Those objects out toward infinity aren't experiencing time dilation or contraction from their own view point, we are.

You've lodged your wrench in the gears of the universe again, haven't you? Of course they'll experience their specific physical manifestations of time to live versus leftover time to decay from intermittent and random destruction, the problem is that the process is too uniform for our understanding to properly say exactly how those effects are happening, therefore they're locked in place until better explanation, that normally would be that the infinite point of expansion associated nearest our perspective has near zero probability of coherent-relativity in further interaction with the dilation-drifted distant states of matter experiencing time, allowing it to remain in a uniform order of operating relative to our own scope of timeline interference or progression, allowing them to hide as of yet inconceivable layers to our explanation of the differences between time, gravity, and the physical barriers held within our best ideas of absolute vacuums.
 
2014-07-13 12:07:46 AM  

BigLuca: some_beer_drinker: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]

I think that is my favorite scene of all of TV'dom.


i know, right? the brightest lights, burn the shortest. so say we all.
 
2014-07-13 12:08:46 AM  

some_beer_drinker: BigLuca: some_beer_drinker: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]

I think that is my favorite scene of all of TV'dom.

i know, right? the brightest lights, burn the shortest. so say we all.


i was actually looking for the gif where he rolls his eyes, but...oh well. that one is good too.
 
2014-07-13 01:22:00 AM  
I'm ecstatic that this started out as an Elric thread.
 
2014-07-13 01:52:29 AM  
DISAPPOINTED!

Saw the word "math-sturbation." Came into thread for Danica McKellar pics.
 
2014-07-13 03:10:12 AM  

Savage Belief: AngryDragon: Shenanigans.

There's no way all this happened in 6,000 years.

The big bang travelled faster than light?


Yes, our universe is larger than the age of the universe. Relativity states that while energy & matter can't exceed the local speed of light, spacetime itself can.

Imagine you slam two objects together. The shockwaves can travel outward faster than the sum of the velocities of the two objects, if the density of the two are high enough. Imagine slamming two multiverses' worth of energy together.

Drop a rock in a pond, you create ripples. Now, those ripples are energy waves, the water doesn't actually travel. What happens if those waves are created in a void of pure chaos? THEN the water will travel with the waves, because the troughs and peaks are made of the fabric of space and time itself. Too much space, not enough time? The water evaporates into quantum particles, then into photons, and are reflected back to us as the CMB. Too much time, not enough space? The water condenses and "sinks" until it can reach equilibrium again as water for the next rock to fall into. Dark matter, pulling our "wave" along until the energy density is low enough that it can expand again.

Imagine our Big Bang. One underlying membrane of reality touches another. Spacetime itself ripples outward in infinity-1x10^infinite-1 dimensions at 180,000.00001 k/s. Each ripple has a peak and a trough. Within that trough, energy/matter coalesce, but can never exceed the speed of spacetime. A massless photon can hit just below that speed, but never exceed it, just as we can accelerate a particle to 99.9999999%c. Local space-time itself can exceed it, but is localized because it can't "ride to the peak" and cross over without more energy than is contained within that space-time.

So, as relativity states that to send even the smallest subatomic particle to actual FTL speeds requires more raw energy than our universe contains, the same applies to using a warp-drive made of space-time manipulation to breach into the next or previous wave of our local big-bang spacetime. Our observable universe is a spherical, infinity-1x4d representation of the actual sphere of our "trough" of the Big Bang.
 
2014-07-13 03:15:34 AM  
And anyone who wants to ask if I'm drunk: Yes. Yes I am. But these are sober ideas about why spacetime itself can travel faster than light and why the universe is larger than its' age.
 
2014-07-13 04:11:55 AM  
My tiny brain gets overwhelmed on this point, which I cannot fathom an answer to:

If the universe is infinite, and it is expanding, then that means there is space beyond infinity, otherwise there would be no place for the infinite universe to expand into. Which seems to indicate that infinite is subjective, as it is contained within something else, which is probably also contained within something else.

I am almost 60 and this line of reasoning was used to drive my high school science teacher into therapy.
 
2014-07-13 04:59:15 AM  

Mad_Radhu: How deep does the multiverse go?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1332]

Potato.


Schroedinger's Potato?
 
2014-07-13 06:25:55 AM  

BumpInTheNight: [cdn.obsidianportal.com image 850x640]


Mount Celestia? Damned ponies are everywhere!
 
2014-07-13 06:30:19 AM  
Mongo just pawn in game of life
 
2014-07-13 06:42:02 AM  

MacWizard: My tiny brain gets overwhelmed on this point, which I cannot fathom an answer to:

If the universe is infinite, and it is expanding, then that means there is space beyond infinity, otherwise there would be no place for the infinite universe to expand into. Which seems to indicate that infinite is subjective, as it is contained within something else, which is probably also contained within something else.

I am almost 60 and this line of reasoning was used to drive my high school science teacher into therapy.


Nope. The universe is creating the space it's expanding into as it expands. There isn't an "outside" to the universe. Even though there are other universes.
 
2014-07-13 06:50:23 AM  
THRESHOLD! TAKE US TO THE THRESHOLD!

/I keep what I kill
 
2014-07-13 06:51:06 AM  

MacWizard: My tiny brain gets overwhelmed on this point, which I cannot fathom an answer to:

If the universe is infinite, and it is expanding, then that means there is space beyond infinity, otherwise there would be no place for the infinite universe to expand into. Which seems to indicate that infinite is subjective, as it is contained within something else, which is probably also contained within something else.

I am almost 60 and this line of reasoning was used to drive my high school science teacher into therapy.


You just move each unit of space-time to the next room in the hotel.
 
2014-07-13 07:07:00 AM  

BumpInTheNight: [cdn.obsidianportal.com image 850x640]


Best D&D campaign setting ever, IMHO.
 
2014-07-13 07:18:13 AM  

Ed Grubermann: MacWizard: My tiny brain gets overwhelmed on this point, which I cannot fathom an answer to:

If the universe is infinite, and it is expanding, then that means there is space beyond infinity, otherwise there would be no place for the infinite universe to expand into. Which seems to indicate that infinite is subjective, as it is contained within something else, which is probably also contained within something else.

I am almost 60 and this line of reasoning was used to drive my high school science teacher into therapy.

Nope. The universe is creating the space it's expanding into as it expands. There isn't an "outside" to the universe. Even though there are other universes.


Assuming I buy into that (which I really don't), it still doesn't solve the issue of "infinite" being subjective. If it is expanding, what was infinite in the past is now only a percentage of infinite. And what is infinite today will be less than infinite tomorrow. So infinite has a limit.
 
2014-07-13 08:13:52 AM  
"...Looking at an unremarkable, small patch of sky that doesn't appear to have any remarkable features...."

That's quite a remark.
 
2014-07-13 08:20:45 AM  

schnee: It is turtles all the way down.

How can the our observable universe be 46 billion light years across, but the age of the universe be only 13.8 billion years old? Is it because the universe didn't expand from a single point in space and just sprung up everywhere? That is, the Big Bang didn't happen "over there" but "everywhere"?

/not a cosmologist


If the universe is expanding at light speed, then in 13.8 billion years, it will be 27.6 billion light-years across.

But if we are observing something from, say, 11.5 billion years ago, it was 12.5 billion light-years away from us when its light left it.  But if the universe is expanding at the speed of light then that faraway point is now 23 billion light-years away.

"But how did it get to be 12.5 billion light-years out when the universe was only 1.3 billion years old?"

The speed of light isn't necessarily constant, and we're still working on how that can happen.

"But if the speed of light isn't constant, then how can you make a figure based off of what you know the speed of light now to be?"

"It's... it's particles and... LOOK I DIDN'T BUILD THE FARKING THING"
 
2014-07-13 08:25:50 AM  

BigLuca: some_beer_drinker: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]

I think that is my favorite scene of all of TV'dom.


Mine is the one immediately following.  When he starts giving the same long-winded speech and the guy cuts him off, saying "No, no, I got it, best for everybody, no problem!"
 
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