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(Science 2.0)   And science destroys yet another religion   (science20.com) divider line 111
    More: Obvious  
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9272 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Jul 2014 at 2:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-12 12:51:05 PM  
As a young child, I had imaginary friends. But, I knew they were imaginary.

Reason is always King.
 
2014-07-12 01:48:16 PM  
The premise seems to be stating that the unconscious mind tends to believe in the unreal... well, okay... But the conscious or rational mind is what makes the final decision in that regard, so whats the point? Deep in the pit of my brain I might secretly want Superman to really exist, but the top layer is telling me that's farking stupid, that's not REALITY. I made a decision not to believe in Superman?

FTA: "In the United States, 38% of people who identified themselves as atheist or agnostic went on to claim to believe in a God or a Higher Power"

Well that's not surprising, you asked Atheists and Agnostics... People who identify as Agnostics, to say nothing of the actual definition of the term, are people who don't affiliate with any one Religion, but still BELIEVE in something undefined, like a higher power. That statistic only states that of people not affiliated with any major religion 62% are Atheist and 38% are Agnostic.

It begins, then, to assert that Atheists believe in God, no... they don't. It's the very definition of the word... An immortal soul, then? Well Atheism is just not believing in a Deity of any sort, Buddhists are Atheists, don't believe in a God, and believe in the immortal soul... so... Go you?

And moving down the man just get gets more and more 'metaphysical'.

He doesn't list any sources, only polls and "scientists are saying" which isn't helpful at all. This article is weird, and it's long as hell, and makes weird assertions about invisible friends and internal monologues.... In the end...

static.comicvine.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-07-12 01:50:55 PM  
If atheists are religious and don't know it, does that mean that religious people could be atheists and not know it?
 
2014-07-12 01:54:26 PM  
I would like to believe in all kinds of things. I would love for there to be a loving and kind God personally interested in what I had for breakfast (a bagel, for the curious--and just in case).

But belief and/or hope won't make it so.

/Reality sucks.
//Pro tip: That's how you can usually tell you're dealing with it.
 
2014-07-12 02:34:59 PM  
even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul


I love it when other people tell me what I believe.
 
2014-07-12 02:40:50 PM  

syrynxx: I love it when other people tell me what I believe.


As if it would work anyway... I believe you should send me some money!

See? Nothing...

....Unless...

www.atheistmemebase.com
 
2014-07-12 02:42:35 PM  
Does this mean that all people, deep down inside, want to be stamp collectors?
 
2014-07-12 02:43:30 PM  

Will-Mun: People who identify as Agnostics, to say nothing of the actual definition of the term, are people who don't affiliate with any one Religion, but still BELIEVE in something undefined, like a higher power.


No.  "Gnosis" is the Greek root for "knowledge", so an agnostic is "without knowledge".  There may or may not be a supreme being/God/GAOTU, but the surety of that fact is inherently unknowable.  You can choose to believe it or not.

I prefer the four-quadrant categorization, where the two axes are:
Gnostic/Agnostic - do you believe the existence of a supreme being is inherently provable?
Theistic/Athiestic - do you live your life as if there is a supreme being who knows and cares what you do?

Many fundamentalist Christians would consider themselves Gnostic Theists - they believe in a God, and that his existence is manifest in the world, and they live their lives (somewhat) according to his perceived desires as expressed in the Bible.  Muslims who fly planes into buildings also fall in this bucket.

I am an agnostic atheist - there may be a "God", but I do not live my life as if there is.
 
2014-07-12 02:45:26 PM  
Science 2.0 is a crank site run by and for people who believe that science should be inclusionary to the point that any and all ideas deserve equal consideration regardless of merit, the amount of actual work put forth in their development or the rigor with which those ideas were developed.

If their notion of science had taken root at the beginning we woukd still be arguing over whether or not proponents of spontaneous generation are on to something.

There is no real reason to visit the site as a result.
 
2014-07-12 02:50:49 PM  
"that even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul."

Yeah, stopped there. Very brief examination reveals possibility of lack of belief of god, holding religious belief, and containing the belief of the soul at the same time.


Not all flavors are vanilla.
 
2014-07-12 02:50:51 PM  
This is a tactic used by vile presuppositionalists (specifically Calvinists like Sye Ten Brugggencate) a lot: There are no Atheists. Everybody already believes in God, Atheists just deny his existence. So they're not non-believers, they're just lying to themselves.
 
2014-07-12 02:55:44 PM  

Will-Mun: FTA: "In the United States, 38% of people who identified themselves as atheist or agnostic went on to claim to believe in a God or a Higher Power"


38% of people are morons. This is nothing new.
 
2014-07-12 02:55:52 PM  

Ishkur: So they're not non-believers, they're just lying to themselves.


Deist Deniers. :-) Neat!
 
2014-07-12 02:56:53 PM  

syrynxx: Will-Mun: People who identify as Agnostics, to say nothing of the actual definition of the term, are people who don't affiliate with any one Religion, but still BELIEVE in something undefined, like a higher power.

No.  "Gnosis" is the Greek root for "knowledge", so an agnostic is "without knowledge".  There may or may not be a supreme being/God/GAOTU, but the surety of that fact is inherently unknowable.  You can choose to believe it or not.

I prefer the four-quadrant categorization, where the two axes are:
Gnostic/Agnostic - do you believe the existence of a supreme being is inherently provable?
Theistic/Athiestic - do you live your life as if there is a supreme being who knows and cares what you do?

Many fundamentalist Christians would consider themselves Gnostic Theists - they believe in a God, and that his existence is manifest in the world, and they live their lives (somewhat) according to his perceived desires as expressed in the Bible.  Muslims who fly planes into buildings also fall in this bucket.

I am an agnostic atheist - there may be a "God", but I do not live my life as if there is.


Yes I'm aware of that. As I said, "to say nothing of the actual definition of the term." I was pointing out that many people who state they are agnostic are using the term to define themselves as someone who does not believe any one religion, and instead takes a more personal aspect to spirituality and a higher power. An incorrect definition of the word, yes, but that is how the word is used a lot of the time.
 
2014-07-12 03:01:38 PM  

theorellior: Does this mean that all people, deep down inside, want to be stamp collectors?


Or that they're afraid of an invisible box full of invisible stuff that they forgot wasn't exactly invisible or that someone else will use someone elses own invisible box to make their invisible box more utilized or less invisible?

I think we're just tired of teaching each other, and as a species we're to the point where we're trying to teach ourselves with non-existent things, possibly as an example if we ever get around to teaching how to become teachers in the first place. That or we're hoping we can begin teaching nothing at all and still have something learn an attributable value that accumulates without or interference, like virtual motion, perpetually.
 
2014-07-12 03:08:19 PM  
After working 20+ years in the field of psychology I can tell you that 95% of the field is complete bullshiat and 50% of practitioners are as crazy or crazier than their patients.  Almost everything they 'prove' is wish fulfillment or projection.  Reading psychology journals is little better than reading the Weekly World News or National Enquirer.
 
2014-07-12 03:11:54 PM  
This topic really needs to be redefined. People conflate gnostic (one can know) and agnostic (one cannot know) with theism (belief in god) and atheism (belief in no god).

People are properly defined by both poles.

I'm an agnostic theist.
 
2014-07-12 03:14:08 PM  
So, if I have an internal monologue - it means I believe that there exists some higher power that is listening to it?

That's nonsense.
 
2014-07-12 03:17:20 PM  
*tips fedora*

M'lady!
 
2014-07-12 03:17:30 PM  
Tfa seems to be saying that people are wired to believe in metaphysical things, and god is a metaphysical thing, so everyone believes in god.
 
2014-07-12 03:25:04 PM  
The old "brains are wired for religion so religion must be true" argument.

Brains are wired to produce various visual illusions but that doesn't make the illusions true.

Humans are wired to detect the intentions of other humans and that has been a major driver of evolution.

If I look at a cloud I may understand its behavior in terms of intentions (it wants to grow big so it can rain or it wants to move across the sky) or maybe in terms of physics. For the most part there are no consequences if I ascribe intentions to clouds or rivers and it may provide a framework for observations by which I might come to a physical understanding.
 
2014-07-12 03:30:03 PM  
Plenty of studies showing that many people hold non-rational beliefs

eg study where people given choice between wearing a sweater smeared with dogshiat, or a sweater which (they were told) belonged to mass murderer Fred West, that had been washed.

Nobody wanted to wear the killer's clothes, even though had been cleaned (and prob didn't come from him in first place)

But showing a subconscious belief in the supernatural doesn't make you religious

It just highlights the fact that evolution has favoured those who are more disposed to see agency in natural events (something must be responsible for that disaster so we need to placate him/she/it) and we are the survivors

Atheists are everywhere, thank God
 
2014-07-12 03:31:58 PM  
horseshiat. Deep down in places we don't like to talk about, I am convinced that most of us (even the most devoutly religious) really DON'T believe in a god at all.  That we WANT to believe, and pretend to, and act like we do in front of other "believers", but let me ask you something.

Do you think a Catholic priest, as he slides his dick into a choir boy, REALLY believes in eternal damnation?

Do you think a Protestant minister, as he gets a blowjob from that cute woman that his wife is friends with that sits in that back pew every Sunday, REALLY believes in salvation from Jesus?

Do you think the Pentecostal girl, that won't wear makeup or pants because reasons, REALLY thinks god is real as she farks the married guy she picked up on the internet?

The truth is that "belief in god" is NOT ingrained.  The truth is that "do what everyone else is doing" is.

So yeah, a few sociopaths figured out that religion was a great way to gain power over people, and that most people would just follow along because, being social animals, we tend to DO JUST THAT.
 
2014-07-12 03:37:23 PM  
Can we all just take a break from Philosophy 101 at the University o Neckbeard to appreciate just how trolltastic Smitty's headline is?

Annnnd ... Thanks.

As you were, craft-beer drinking pseuds.
 
2014-07-12 03:41:14 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-12 03:44:23 PM  

theorellior: Does this mean that all people, deep down inside, want to be stamp collectors?


Don't be silly.

Philately will get you nowhere.
 
2014-07-12 03:48:41 PM  
Coyul warned Barion that the primate brain would never be able to escape the darkness. But did Barion listen? Nooooo-oooo. Now we have to drag some ignorant neo-Nazi to "hell" to save humanity from itself.

/at least we find out the fate of bad sci-fi writers in the afterlife is to be an answering machine
//slightly obscure?
 
2014-07-12 03:48:48 PM  
After all  there are atheist churches now, a concept I will never understand.
 
2014-07-12 03:51:01 PM  
img.fark.net

I'll just leave this here.
 
2014-07-12 03:52:52 PM  
God appeared to me in a bowl of cornflakes and told me that God doesn't exist.
 
2014-07-12 03:53:28 PM  

oryx: After all  there are atheist churches now, a concept I will never understand.


even atheists are social creatures.  people like dogma.

for instance, Anton Lavey didn't really believe in satan, but he knew people sure liked fun things to do in a group.
 
2014-07-12 03:54:34 PM  
"This shouldn't come as a surprise, since we are born believers, not atheists, scientists say."
i18.photobucket.com
How is anybody even supposed to take shiat like this seriously?
 
2014-07-12 03:55:18 PM  

Marine1: [img.fark.net image 640x846]

I'll just leave this here.


We all know those are actually Rand Paul quotes.
 
2014-07-12 03:56:54 PM  

jso2897: Marine1: [img.fark.net image 640x846]

I'll just leave this here.

We all know those are actually Rand Paul quotes.


Eh, it was something that was put up on the Facebook page of "I F*cking Hate Science", which is a parody of "I F*cking Love Science". Ol' Dicky Dawkins got wind of it and just had to respond.
 
2014-07-12 03:58:18 PM  
Metaphysical beliefs or even religious beliefs do not necessarily include believing in any sort of deity. I have a friend who adamantly believes in some sort of afterlife but also has no uncertainty in her belief that there's no god.
 
2014-07-12 04:01:30 PM  

oryx: After all  there are atheist churches now, a concept I will never understand.


You don't have to believe in order to miss the ceremonies of your religious past. I find the concept of "atheist churches" silly, but I also understand where the idea comes from.
 
2014-07-12 04:08:58 PM  

hawcian: Metaphysical beliefs or even religious beliefs do not necessarily include believing in any sort of deity. I have a friend who adamantly believes in some sort of afterlife but also has no uncertainty in her belief that there's no god.


Yep. The article's flawed trollbait, basically.
 
2014-07-12 04:09:16 PM  

ReverendJynxed: [i.imgur.com image 400x300]


This is all the proof I require...

...to believe in burnt popcorn.
 
2014-07-12 04:10:35 PM  

Marine1: [img.fark.net image 640x846]
I'll just leave this here.


That's like one of those "'Use the Force, Harry.' ~ Gandalf" things. Dawkins got trolled.
 
2014-07-12 04:11:28 PM  
We really in the infancy of scientific exploration. For example, x-rays have existed for entirety of human existence, but we only discovered them in the last few hundred years. Who is to say we won't invent a "Ghost-A-Scope" someday and find that the universe is also populated with life of a different sort that occupies the same "space", but does not interact directly with our "reality".
 
2014-07-12 04:23:21 PM  

haknudsen: After working 20+ years in the field of psychology I can tell you that 95% of the field is complete bullshiat and 50% of practitioners are as crazy or crazier than their patients.  Almost everything they 'prove' is wish fulfillment or projection.  Reading psychology journals is little better than reading the Weekly World News or National Enquirer.


I only worked in the field for 15 years, but I can verify everything this gentleman said.

Psychology is not science.
 
2014-07-12 04:33:11 PM  
'... And then God dissappeared in a puff of logic'.
 
2014-07-12 04:55:05 PM  

skozlaw: Science 2.0 is a crank site run by and for people who believe that science should be inclusionary to the point that any and all ideas deserve equal consideration regardless of merit, the amount of actual work put forth in their development or the rigor with which those ideas were developed.

If their notion of science had taken root at the beginning we woukd still be arguing over whether or not proponents of spontaneous generation are on to something.

There is no real reason to visit the site as a result.


Oh, it is serious? I thought it was like a science version of The Onion.
 
2014-07-12 04:58:48 PM  

Sim Tree: '... And then God dissappeared in a puff of logic'.


Well...

Nietzsche argued that logic merely sublimates and refines the metaphysical worldview that, in earlier ages, gave rise to a belief in gods. In the end, it is still nothing more than a projection of the human meaning-making apparatus (in its purest form) onto an indifferent and chaotic universe.

He sort of staked out the whole, "just because you're not religious/spiritual doesn't mean you're not metaphysical" thing more than a century ago. Of course, unlike TFA, he actually had the imagination to apply that to the structure of scientific thought as well (e.g., his argument that the perception of cause and effect is itself a metaphysical error).

/invite me to parties. I'm fun.
 
2014-07-12 05:07:03 PM  
I don't know about anyone else but I rarely have internal discussions, I always talk to myself as if I'm speaking to someone. When I do interalise them it's because I don't want anyone to hear my secrets.
 
2014-07-12 05:15:15 PM  
FTFA:  WHILE MILITANT ATHEISTS like Richard Dawkins

stoppedreadingthere.jpg

The author obviously doesn't know what "militant" means. Also:

i560.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-12 05:16:16 PM  
"militant atheists"

wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-07-12 05:19:33 PM  

Uncle Tractor: FTFA:  WHILE MILITANT ATHEISTS like Richard Dawkins

stoppedreadingthere.jpg

The author obviously doesn't know what "militant" means. Also:

[i560.photobucket.com image 475x336]


www.freethoughtpedia.com

Was a militant atheist. He killed anyone who wasn't a poor, uneducated atheist
 
2014-07-12 05:20:44 PM  

machoprogrammer: Uncle Tractor: FTFA:  WHILE MILITANT ATHEISTS like Richard Dawkins

stoppedreadingthere.jpg

The author obviously doesn't know what "militant" means. Also:

[i560.photobucket.com image 475x336]

[www.freethoughtpedia.com image 400x400]

Was a militant atheist. He killed anyone who wasn't a poor, uneducated atheist


God dammit conservatards.

www.historytoday.com
 
2014-07-12 05:21:36 PM  

Lanadapter: "militant atheists"

[wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com image 300x212]


One minute and one second.

i560.photobucket.com
 
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