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(Jalopnik)   After 15 years, Toyota decides that it's time to put an end to our Supra withdrawal   (jalopnik.com) divider line 56
    More: Spiffy, design studio  
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4441 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Jul 2014 at 10:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-12 09:53:30 AM  
They've been talking about it for a couple of years now..........talking.

/The RC F is coming out this year
//and I will think of it as a fancy Supra
 
2014-07-12 10:15:35 AM  
That car epitomized what a sports car should like in my mind in every era it was ever produced. Pic in the article is ugly as fark though.
 
2014-07-12 10:34:48 AM  
Now if Honda would only bring back the S2000 (greatest sports car ever) we would be making progress.
 
2014-07-12 11:04:03 AM  
Neat. Between the new Mustang, Corvette, M4, Supra, Z-car, Stinger, refreshed Camaro, and successor to the Challenger it's going to be difficult to choose. Now all Subaru has to do is put a new engine in the STi. Too bad Mitsubishi killed the Evo.
 
2014-07-12 11:14:52 AM  

Enlightened Liberal: Neat. Between the new Mustang, Corvette, M4, Supra, Z-car, Stinger, refreshed Camaro, and successor to the Challenger it's going to be difficult to choose.


Actually, it will be pretty easy.  Start by weeding out anything American, then you always go Italian-Swedish-German-British-Asian.
 
2014-07-12 11:42:30 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Now if Honda would only bring back the S2000

NSX (greatest sports car ever) we would be making progress.

FTFY
 
2014-07-12 11:47:46 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: That car epitomized what a sports car should like in my mind in every era it was ever produced. Pic in the article is ugly as fark though.


There must be a difference between Sports Car and Roadster - I've had 5 Miatas, so far, and plan to keep one around until I can no longer get out of the thing without a crane.  Current unit is a 2000 I got 2 years ago.
 
2014-07-12 11:50:53 AM  

Enlightened Liberal: successor to the Challenger


I'm pretty sure the plan to replace the Challenger was scrapped when they decided to make the Hellcat engine.  As it sits now they are planning on keep the Challenger around until at least 2018.  And that Hellcat looks like a beast.

Shaggy_C: Actually, it will be pretty easy.  Start by weeding out anything American, then you always go Italian-Swedish-German-British-Asian.


Define American.  Do you mean produced by an American Company?  Or made with majority American parts?  Or do you mean assembled in the United State?  Really no matter how you cut it your statement is simplistic to the point of being simple minded.  We really are living in a new golden age for performance cars.  Whether you want a hot hatch, an american muscle quarter mile monster, a marvel of technical wizardry that can allow any driver to drive like a pro or just a good old fashioned sports car there are a ton of options out there.  Really the only segment I can think of that seems stagnant is the roadster.  Sure the MX-5/Miata is continuing to evolve but there doesn't seem to be enough competition in the segment to really drive the type of advancement we've seen in other types of car

 Anyway, I've always wanted a Supra and I hope like hell that Toyota goes ahead with this and makes a car worthy of the Supra name.  It would really be a shame if they made the same mistake the other Japanese makers made in the late nineties when they started turning their sports cars into GT cars.
 
2014-07-12 11:55:26 AM  
But it won't have the 2jzgte (think thats the code) engine. That is what made the Supra.
 
2014-07-12 12:01:38 PM  
I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.
 
2014-07-12 12:03:15 PM  

Enlightened Liberal: Too bad Mitsubishi killed the Evo.


Mitsubishi is on a mission to destroy it's own auto industry.
 
2014-07-12 12:20:26 PM  

dionysusaur: InterruptingQuirk: That car epitomized what a sports car should like in my mind in every era it was ever produced. Pic in the article is ugly as fark though.

There must be a difference between Sports Car and Roadster - I've had 5 Miatas, so far, and plan to keep one around until I can no longer get out of the thing without a crane.  Current unit is a 2000 I got 2 years ago.


paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.


I'm really looking forward to seeing the new Miata. Gets released in September.
 
2014-07-12 12:36:37 PM  

paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.


How does it handle in snow/bad weather?  I was thinking of getting one, but I can't really keep two cars at this point.  I would need it to be a daily driver.
 
2014-07-12 12:42:16 PM  

Lsherm: paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.

How does it handle in snow/bad weather?  I was thinking of getting one, but I can't really keep two cars at this point.  I would need it to be a daily driver.


And what about off road.. I may need to go off road.. And possibly tow a trailer...
 
2014-07-12 12:45:53 PM  

dforkus: Lsherm: paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.

How does it handle in snow/bad weather?  I was thinking of getting one, but I can't really keep two cars at this point.  I would need it to be a daily driver.

And what about off road.. I may need to go off road.. And possibly tow a trailer...


Jesus Christ, it wasn't an unreasonable question.  The Miata isn't a Lamborghini.
 
2014-07-12 12:46:32 PM  

Lsherm: paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.

How does it handle in snow/bad weather?  I was thinking of getting one, but I can't really keep two cars at this point.  I would need it to be a daily driver.


I got thru this last Indiana Winter on 3-season tires - no pleasant, but not bad.
4 snow tires (Bridgestone Blizzaks preferred) got a previous one through a Boston/NewEngland winter with zero drama.
 
2014-07-12 01:13:52 PM  

Tom_Slick: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Now if Honda would only bring back the S2000 NSX (greatest sports car ever) we would be making progress.

FTFY


Best sports car under $60k

FTFY again

at $32.5k it was an amazing value
 
2014-07-12 01:17:17 PM  

dionysusaur: Lsherm: paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.

How does it handle in snow/bad weather?  I was thinking of getting one, but I can't really keep two cars at this point.  I would need it to be a daily driver.

I got thru this last Indiana Winter on 3-season tires - no pleasant, but not bad.
4 snow tires (Bridgestone Blizzaks preferred) got a previous one through a Boston/NewEngland winter with zero drama.


Oh - and if snow tires are a thing you need, you also wanna grab a hardtop  (aftermarket for '89-'05, power HT after '08 or so)
 
2014-07-12 01:28:42 PM  
E60 M5 > all others.  That is all.
 
2014-07-12 01:40:27 PM  

Shaggy_C: Enlightened Liberal: Neat. Between the new Mustang, Corvette, M4, Supra, Z-car, Stinger, refreshed Camaro, and successor to the Challenger it's going to be difficult to choose.

Actually, it will be pretty easy.  Start by weeding out anything American, then you always go Italian-Swedish-German-British-Asian.


Come on man, don't be THAT guy.  Nobody likes THAT guy.
 
2014-07-12 02:08:55 PM  
Meh, who cares. It'll be 80 grand. May as well be a billion.
 
2014-07-12 04:11:36 PM  
Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports car.
 
2014-07-12 04:14:08 PM  

Nick Nostril: Meh, who cares. It'll be 80 grand. May as well be a billion.


I hope not.  One of the selling points of the original was that it wasn't appreciably more expensive than anything else in the Toyota line-up.
 
2014-07-12 05:02:55 PM  

paulleah: I have a Miata and a Porsche.
Guess which one sits in the garage or at the dealership getting fixed constantly?


The Miata is the best sports car ever made.


I refer to my turbo'ed 96' as my go cart.
 
2014-07-12 05:32:51 PM  

Lsherm: Nick Nostril: Meh, who cares. It'll be 80 grand. May as well be a billion.

I hope not.  One of the selling points of the original was that it wasn't appreciably more expensive than anything else in the Toyota line-up.


It's a halo vehicle. It's going to be priced such that anyone who can afford one has no business buying a sports car.

The closest thing to a true Supra replacement right now is the FR-S/BRZ. Not quite as powerful, sure, but it's a RWD car with 200hp that weighs 3000lb and it looks something like the embodiment of sex crossed with a pit viper. It's adequate for rustling jimmies.

/plus, having seen the engine bay, I'm pretty sure you could throw an STi motor in there with minimal modifications and it would be scary, scary fast
 
2014-07-12 05:52:50 PM  

vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.


Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.
 
2014-07-12 05:59:43 PM  

echoshizzle: But it won't have the 2jzgte (think thats the code) engine. That is what made the Supra.


Oh man, I remember those engines.  Replace the twin turbos with a big-ass turbo and a new chip ... BAM 500hp.

I would love to see the old Eclipse engine from the early 90's back as well.
 
2014-07-12 06:13:16 PM  

Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.


This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.
 
2014-07-12 06:19:31 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.


Which is why the S2000 was such a gem. They got 240 HP out of a 2 liter engine, rear wheel drive, light and perfectly balanced. I used to track mine when I lived in Colorado and it was an absolute blast.
 
2014-07-12 06:26:09 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

Which is why the S2000 was such a gem. They got 240 HP out of a 2 liter engine, rear wheel drive, light and perfectly balanced. I used to track mine when I lived in Colorado and it was an absolute blast.


It didn't track very well after Katrina

i781.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-12 07:11:02 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

Which is why the S2000 was such a gem. They got 240 HP out of a 2 liter engine, rear wheel drive, light and perfectly balanced. I used to track mine when I lived in Colorado and it was an absolute blast.

It didn't track very well after Katrina

[i781.photobucket.com image 850x638]


That is sad.
 
2014-07-12 07:13:37 PM  

vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports car.


?
web-cars.com
 
2014-07-12 07:23:18 PM  

crotchgrabber: IamKaiserSoze!!!: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

Which is why the S2000 was such a gem. They got 240 HP out of a 2 liter engine, rear wheel drive, light and perfectly balanced. I used to track mine when I lived in Colorado and it was an absolute blast.

It didn't track very well after Katrina

[i781.photobucket.com image 850x638]

That is sad.


I replaced it with a Monte Carlo blue one.
 
2014-07-12 07:23:22 PM  
If you need to go off-road, drive in the snow or pull a trailer, get a Toyota 4Runner.

The Miata would not be the car for you. Porsches are fantastic 3rd cars.
 
2014-07-12 07:32:44 PM  
I test drove a 92 (I think) Supra once and while I didn't buy it because it was an automatic, I was super impressed by the pickup when the turbo kicked in.  That thing would have been a beast in a manual.
 
2014-07-12 07:34:31 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: I replaced it with a Monte Carlo blue one.


Nice. I always like the S2000, but I prefer the Miata... for professional reasons.
 
2014-07-12 08:07:45 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: It didn't track very well after Katrina


perfect for the 24 Hours of LeMons, or Chumpcar then
 
2014-07-12 08:09:46 PM  

loonatic112358: IamKaiserSoze!!!: It didn't track very well after Katrina

perfect for the 24 Hours of LeMons, or Chumpcar then


It was submerged for two weeks. We had 7 feet of brackish (salt) water where I lived and it drained very slowly.

It was pretty much not good for anything but perhaps body parts
 
hej
2014-07-12 08:10:36 PM  
Allow me to restrain my excitement after seeing how the true the production FT86 was to the concept car.
 
2014-07-12 08:13:50 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.


"Through to today" hardly.. The latest incarnations of the camaro, corvette, and mustang handle quite well...
 
2014-07-12 08:51:08 PM  
Best.  Roadster.  Ever.


img.fark.net

Just picked this up a month ago, and while it has a few small problems, it's probably the most enjoyable vehicle I've ever owned.
 
2014-07-12 09:06:32 PM  

icanoutfishyou: Best.  Roadster.  Ever.


[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Just picked this up a month ago, and while it has a few small problems, it's probably the most enjoyable vehicle I've ever owned.


Saw a sizable group of those on the Tail of the Dragon once. Probably be a lot of fun on that stretch.
 
2014-07-12 09:15:14 PM  

dforkus: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

"Through to today" hardly.. The latest incarnations of the camaro, corvette, and mustang handle quite well...


Not just that but the original moonshine runners had pretty decent handling as well.  They had to in order to be able to drive at high speed on the backroads in the Appalachians.  US 129 is no Furka Pass but it sure as hell has some twists to it.  True a lot of moonshine runners wound up in stock car racing but contrary to what most people think they didn't just drive up in their moonshine running car and race it on the dirt track.  Most of them had cars specifically set up for oval racing.  And it was the rise in popularity of oval track racing, especially after the formation of NASCAR, that lead to the muscle car.  Moonshine cars had much more in common with the import tuner cars of the 90s than they did the muscle cars of the 1960s.  In all honesty I'd say the creation of the Interstate Highway system had more to do with the muscle car era than moonshine running did.

Sorry for going way off topic of the thread.   Bourbon makes me ramble.
 
2014-07-12 09:26:46 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Lsherm: Nick Nostril: Meh, who cares. It'll be 80 grand. May as well be a billion.

I hope not.  One of the selling points of the original was that it wasn't appreciably more expensive than anything else in the Toyota line-up.

It's a halo vehicle. It's going to be priced such that anyone who can afford one has no business buying a sports car.

The closest thing to a true Supra replacement right now is the FR-S/BRZ. Not quite as powerful, sure, but it's a RWD car with 200hp that weighs 3000lb and it looks something like the embodiment of sex crossed with a pit viper. It's adequate for rustling jimmies.

/plus, having seen the engine bay, I'm pretty sure you could throw an STi motor in there with minimal modifications and it would be scary, scary fast


A buddy at work has one of those and it is an absolute blast to drive.  I'd like to pick up a used one in a few years.
 
2014-07-12 10:50:43 PM  

Insertwitty Namehere: dforkus: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

"Through to today" hardly.. The latest incarnations of the camaro, corvette, and mustang handle quite well...

Not just that but the original moonshine runners had pretty decent handling as well.  They had to in order to be able to drive at high speed on the backroads in the Appalachians.  US 129 is no Furka Pass but it sure as hell has some twists to it.  True a lot of moonshine runners wound up in stock car racing but contrary to what most people think they didn't just drive up in their moonshine running car and race it on the dirt track.  Most of them had cars specifically set up for oval racing.  And it was the rise in popularity of oval track racing, especially after the formation of NASCAR, that lead to the muscle car.  Moonshine cars had much more in common with the import tuner cars of the 90s than they did the muscle cars of the 1960s. ...


I'm not a car guy at all, but you guys made this thread entertaining and informative as hell. Thank you.
 
2014-07-12 11:10:58 PM  
The before and after photos of my last Supra are in my profile ;)
 
2014-07-12 11:18:23 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.


Ask 10 different people what a sports car is and you'll get 10 different answers. This one comes damn close to my interpretation, though.


/Muscle car = ordinary, boring coupe + huge motor + styling
//Surprised there haven't been any pedants here to argue about the difference between a Muscle car and a Pony car
 
2014-07-12 11:24:28 PM  

Enlightened Liberal: Too bad Mitsubishi killed the Evo.


What?  I had not heard about that at all.  So, they're just going to cede their share of the market to Subaru, Honda and Toyota?
 
2014-07-13 12:39:16 AM  

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: //Surprised there haven't been any pedants here to argue about the difference between a Muscle car and a Pony car


That's relatively easy - muscle cars were based on full size platforms.  Pony cars were smaller platforms.
 
2014-07-13 07:04:34 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Norfolking Chance: vegas_greaser: Does it have at least a V8 and rear wheel drive? No? Not a sports muscle car.

Fixed that for you.

Plenty of four and six cylinder sports cars and plenty with four wheel drive and some with even front wheel drive.

This. Sports cars are about handling, agility and styling, not raw speed. Fundamentally a sports car is designed to epitomize the joy of driving for the sake of driving. Some sports cars are also really powerful, but a proper sports car shouldn't be more powerful than it needs to be, since a heavy engine will weigh it down and ruin the handling by skewing the weight distribution.

It's an entirely different idea than the muscle car. Muscle cars are rooted in the tradition of running moonshine whiskey, where the goal was to be as fast as possible while carrying a heavy load in the back. That meant big, heavy vehicles with tons of power--which is where you can trace the evolution of the American muscle car through to today. Big cars, big engines, heavy suspensions. They go fast but they aren't designed for flat cornering on twisty European backroads.

Which is why the S2000 was such a gem. They got 240 HP out of a 2 liter engine, rear wheel drive, light and perfectly balanced. I used to track mine when I lived in Colorado and it was an absolute blast.


We hit open lapping day at High Plains Raceway several times during the summer. Those S2000s are track demons. They look incredibly fun to drive.
 
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