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(Politico)   Judge rules Florida unconstitutional   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Florida  
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13004 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2014 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-11 08:39:28 AM  
It's true, Florida is never mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. I'm surprised nobody has challenged their existence before.
 
2014-07-11 08:52:26 AM  
I remember those ballot initiatives.  If you voted for them without realizing what you were doing you were a fool.

Glad it's being challenged.
 
2014-07-11 09:08:55 AM  
Congressional maps, they way they are currently drawn, are sort of the opposite of democracy.
 
2014-07-11 09:13:05 AM  

Confabulat: Congressional maps, they way they are currently drawn, are sort of the opposite of democracy.


We have to protect democracy by destroying it, libtardo.
 
2014-07-11 09:15:12 AM  
Are we giving it back to Spain?
 
2014-07-11 09:18:31 AM  

Arkanaut: Are we giving it back to Spain?


Why would they want it back? It reeks of old people and used condoms.
 
2014-07-11 09:18:54 AM  
rs279.pbsrc.com

You're South America's peener now.
 
2014-07-11 09:20:14 AM  

Arkanaut: Are we giving it back to Spain?


Pretty sure that would be considered an overt act of war under all known international treaties.
 
2014-07-11 09:20:36 AM  

Arkanaut: Are we giving it back to Spain?


Lucky for me I live in Orlando and speak Castilian.
 
2014-07-11 09:20:40 AM  
While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Amazed anyone could find a congressional map wrong after the Supreme Court made it so racists can remap whatever way they want to rig elections.
 
2014-07-11 09:21:47 AM  

rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.


Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.
 
2014-07-11 09:22:15 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: [rs279.pbsrc.com image 200x200]

You're South America's peener now.


And nothing of value was lost.
 
2014-07-11 09:22:54 AM  
FTA: "He took the new constitutional amendment really seriously," said Levitt.

You see, this is the kind of astute legal analysis that comes with being a "redistricting expert from Loyola Law School."

Stupid activist judges...taking constitutional amendments all serious and shiat...
 
2014-07-11 09:23:22 AM  

Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.


Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.
 
2014-07-11 09:23:37 AM  
Bump it up to SCROTUS. A few of these guys will say there's just not enough time to change it now and jeopardize a Republican win. Gee I miss O'Connor. She'd help with that.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-11 09:29:48 AM  
I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."
 
2014-07-11 09:30:51 AM  

rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.


Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.
 
2014-07-11 09:31:43 AM  
 
2014-07-11 09:34:23 AM  

Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.


Dis might help.
 
2014-07-11 09:34:24 AM  

Confabulat: Congressional maps, they way they are currently drawn, are sort of the opposite of democracy.


There is a strong current of Republican thought that basically says that most people shouldn't vote and should instead put themselves in the hands of their conservative superiors. Then they have the nerve to call themselves patriotic.
 
2014-07-11 09:35:54 AM  

Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."


This text?

Legislative districts or districting plans may not be drawn to favor or disfavor an incumbent or political party. Districts shall not be drawn to deny racial or language minorities the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect representatives of their choice. Districts must be contiguous. Unless otherwise required, districts must be compact, as equal in population as feasible, and where feasible must make use of existing city, county and geographical boundaries.

It was Amendment 5.
 
2014-07-11 09:37:11 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-11 09:38:14 AM  
This has got to get the headline of the week.
 
2014-07-11 09:38:48 AM  
If only.
 
2014-07-11 09:38:56 AM  
 
2014-07-11 09:39:04 AM  

odinsposse: Confabulat: Congressional maps, they way they are currently drawn, are sort of the opposite of democracy.

There is a strong current of Republican thought that basically says that most people shouldn't vote and should instead put themselves in the hands of their conservative superiors. Then they have the nerve to call themselves patriotic.


Haven't these people been around since the founding of the country? They have never believed in true democracy, just democracy controlled by the people that have their same interests and beliefs as them. God forbid they get outnumbered in their own country by all those pesky citizens who disagree with them.
 
2014-07-11 09:41:20 AM  
images.politico.com
"Yep, that's a big Penisula!"
 
2014-07-11 09:43:46 AM  

Elegy: Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."

This text?

Legislative districts or districting plans may not be drawn to favor or disfavor an incumbent or political party. Districts shall not be drawn to deny racial or language minorities the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect representatives of their choice. Districts must be contiguous. Unless otherwise required, districts must be compact, as equal in population as feasible, and where feasible must make use of existing city, county and geographical boundaries.

It was Amendment 5.



I might be getting my story wrong.  Reading....  I think it was the implementation (Gov. Scott, etc.) that was controversial.

It's hard to keep up.  I've lived here for over 20 years and we have ALOT of ballot initiatives.  Each requiring research to figure out what's really going on.

/blush with embarrassment
 
2014-07-11 09:45:51 AM  
Never understood why they can't (won't, I suppose) come up with a formula to base congressional districts on county lines.
 
2014-07-11 09:47:31 AM  

Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."


Your not referring to Amendment 7 are you? It was tossed by a judge and never appeared on the ballot because of that. Amendment 5 and 6 were on the ballot and seemed fairly clear cut.
 
2014-07-11 09:47:40 AM  

Elegy: Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."

This text?

Legislative districts or districting plans may not be drawn to favor or disfavor an incumbent or political party. Districts shall not be drawn to deny racial or language minorities the equal opportunity to participate in the political process and elect representatives of their choice. Districts must be contiguous. Unless otherwise required, districts must be compact, as equal in population as feasible, and where feasible must make use of existing city, county and geographical boundaries.

It was Amendment 5.


That language is essentially identical to California's. Of course, we didn't then turn the process of subvertingcomplying to it over to political operatives. Oh, and we had a truly transparent, public process with direct inputs from those affected. Big difference. Huge.

/obscure cultural reference is obscure
 
2014-07-11 09:48:59 AM  
The essence of gerrymandering...

We have 49 people.  We need to vote on whether we have pizza for lunch or hamburgers.  16 people want pizza.  33 want hamburgers.  I am one of the 16 pizza voters, and I just happen to be in charge of how to setup the vote.  So, instead of just taking one vote, we'll break it up into smaller districts with smaller number of voters (even though this is no longer a technological hurdle, but just an anachronism from days long gone, we'll still use this system).  So, let's break up our 49 people into 7 groups of 7.  We'll give each group one vote, and then take the majority of the votes of the groups.  In 3 of the groups, we'll fill them with 7 hamburger voters each.  The last 4 groups, we'll put 4 pizza voters and 3 hamburger voters in each.  Now, each group votes, the majority being the final vote for that group, and then we'll take the majority vote of the groups.
Group 1: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 4: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 6: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 7: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA

Now, all 49 people voted.  Let's total up the votes of the groups.  We have, 4 for pizza, 3 for hamburgers.  We're having pizza for lunch.

This is how 16 people can democratically make decisions for a group of 49 people.
 
2014-07-11 09:49:00 AM  

Diogenes: For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).


Yes, direct democracy usually does circumvent representative democracy.

\it's in its nature
 
2014-07-11 09:49:22 AM  
Wolfmanjames:

Whoa I live in there. Where is Georgetown! We are bigger then Boxford. Seriously Massachusetts has made sure no republicans can win here for years. This crap happens everywhere.
 
2014-07-11 09:49:46 AM  

Confabulat: odinsposse: Confabulat: Congressional maps, they way they are currently drawn, are sort of the opposite of democracy.

There is a strong current of Republican thought that basically says that most people shouldn't vote and should instead put themselves in the hands of their conservative superiors. Then they have the nerve to call themselves patriotic.

Haven't these people been around since the founding of the country? They have never believed in true democracy, just democracy controlled by the people that have their same interests and beliefs as them. God forbid they get outnumbered in their own country by all those pesky citizens who disagree with them.


The Pilgrims were Puritans fleeing religious persecution in England.  History has become so skewed most people are unaware that 'persecution' was them not being allowed to impose their morals on other people.  It's the same now--one group of citizens tells another group to stop being assholes, and the second group claims they're being oppressed.

"Let gays get married, it has no impact on you."
"We're being oppressed!"
"Valid healthcare needs to cover birth control."
"My religion is being violated!"
 
2014-07-11 09:50:33 AM  
This is potentially a big, big case.  There are gerrymandering problems all over the country.
 
2014-07-11 09:51:58 AM  

Diogenes: Arkanaut: Are we giving it back to Spain?

Lucky for me I live in Orlando and speak Castilian.


*Waves at you from MCO/Semoran Blvd. area* Hi neighbor! :-)

Regarding the article... GOOD.  I hope that this sets a precedent for other states to start looking at their districting for gerrymandering.
 
2014-07-11 09:52:26 AM  

MindStalker: Diogenes: I'm serious about my earlier comment.  I wish I could recall the wording of the ballot initiatives but they were pretty transparent.  I'll have to see if I can find that text.

For one, it took all of three Google seconds to find out who sponsored/pushed for the initiative (approved FL initiatives often result in direct amendment to the state constitution - completely circumventing the legislature and representative democracy).

And the text as I recall basically said, "Let's ditch this whole idea of fairness and disregard geographical boundaries and population distribution."

Your not referring to Amendment 7 are you? It was tossed by a judge and never appeared on the ballot because of that. Amendment 5 and 6 were on the ballot and seemed fairly clear cut.


Could be.  The actual language Elegy posted looks sound.  So it was either 7, a sample ballot or ? that I was thinking of.  Or it could be the implementation mishigas that Stone Meadow mentioned.

Like I said.  That was four years ago and we get a ton of these things.  My favorite, or course, was the Pregnant Pigs Amendment.
 
2014-07-11 09:53:18 AM  
Gerrymandering is a problem in many states and just about the only way a state can remain red. When the DoJ or a court demands a state redraw its district maps based solely on population, the GOP almost invariably loses seats in the state house and in Congress. Democracy has always been a problem for the GOP, since it has been anti-democratic from inception.
 
2014-07-11 09:54:14 AM  
There's actually an easy fix to the political shenanigans of drawing boundaries. You take it out of the hands of the legislature, and give it to a nonpartisan redistricting committee, chartered to ignore incumbents and political advantage when drawing geographically compact, contiguous districts. Iowa does it, and it's one reason you don't hear about as many knucklehead congressfolk from Iowa as from places like Texas and Florida. (OK, they have Steve King, but no system is perfect).

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-11 09:54:15 AM  

Diogenes: rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.

Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.


Jacksonville is in Georgia.
 
2014-07-11 09:56:03 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Diogenes: rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.

Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.

Jacksonville is in Georgia.


I keep saying...
 
2014-07-11 09:56:51 AM  

Diogenes: rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.

Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.


Ok, but Jacksonville is a big place.  So you need to be sure to pick up the slack by humiliating yourselves in hilarious ways 3x more than normal or they will notice the rest of us southerners acting like clowns.
 
2014-07-11 09:57:04 AM  

Diogenes: So it was either 7


This look familiar?

"In establishing congressional and legislative district boundaries or plans, the state shall apply federal requirements and balance and implement the standards in the State Constitution. The state shall take into consideration the ability of racial and language minorities to participate in the political process and elect candidates of their choice, and communities of common interest other than political parties may be respected and promoted, both without subordination to any other provision of Article III of the State Constitution. Districts and plans are valid if the balancing and implementation of standards is rationally related to the standards contained in the State Constitution and is consistent with federal law. "
 
2014-07-11 09:57:48 AM  

Diogenes: I might be getting my story wrong.  Reading....  I think it was the implementation (Gov. Scott, etc.) that was controversial.

It's hard to keep up.  I've lived here for over 20 years and we have ALOT of ballot initiatives.  Each requiring research to figure out what's really going on.

/blush with embarrassment


You might have the background details wrong, but you're not wrong in substance. Compact district requirements result in maps that heavily favor republicans, because democrats are concentrated into a few small, ultra-homogenous urban districts.

Tell me - has anyone ever talked to you about voting for our lord and savior John Morgan's Amendment 2 this November? If not, may I come inside for a moment? I have some literature I would like to share with you.

/I keed I keed
 
2014-07-11 09:57:52 AM  

BitwiseShift: Bump it up to SCROTUS. A few of these guys will say there's just not enough time to change it now and jeopardize a Republican win. Gee I miss O'Connor. She'd help with that.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 425x288]


I love how Ginsberg looks like she doesn't want to be associated with those people
 
2014-07-11 09:59:06 AM  

stonicus: The essence of gerrymandering...

We have 49 people.  We need to vote on whether we have pizza for lunch or hamburgers.  16 people want pizza.  33 want hamburgers.  I am one of the 16 pizza voters, and I just happen to be in charge of how to setup the vote.  So, instead of just taking one vote, we'll break it up into smaller districts with smaller number of voters (even though this is no longer a technological hurdle, but just an anachronism from days long gone, we'll still use this system).  So, let's break up our 49 people into 7 groups of 7.  We'll give each group one vote, and then take the majority of the votes of the groups.  In 3 of the groups, we'll fill them with 7 hamburger voters each.  The last 4 groups, we'll put 4 pizza voters and 3 hamburger voters in each.  Now, each group votes, the majority being the final vote for that group, and then we'll take the majority vote of the groups.
Group 1: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 4: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 5: 7 hamburger votes... final vote: HAMBURGERS
Group 6: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA
Group 7: 4 pizza votes, 3 hamburger votes... final vote: PIZZA

Now, all 49 people voted.  Let's total up the votes of the groups.  We have, 4 for pizza, 3 for hamburgers.  We're having pizza for lunch.

This is how 16 people can democratically make decisions for a group of 49 people.


Now I'm hungry.

Thanks Obama.
 
2014-07-11 10:00:43 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Diogenes: rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.

Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.

Jacksonville is in Georgia.


I thought it was in North Carolina!
 
2014-07-11 10:01:10 AM  
NJ redistricted back in 2010, I think, to the benefit of mostly Democrats. This behavior is hardly unique to one party.

Although those guys are much worse than my guys, so whatever my guys do to stop them is fine me.
 
2014-07-11 10:06:06 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Diogenes: rev. dave: Diogenes: rev. dave: While disconnecting Florida, please include South Carolina.

Look, I may live in Florida, but even we don't want to be associated with those freaks.

Well we get more beach front property in Georgia that way.   Florida can leave the nice sand behind.  Take all that St. Augustine gravel stuff with you.

Fine.  But then I insist we cut Jacksonville loose and let it be an island or something.

Jacksonville is in Georgia.


Bullsh*t.  Jacksonville is as Florida as it gets.  Don't you try to push that cesspool off on us.
 
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