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(UPI)   Silent Spring 2: Neonicotinoid Boogaloo   (upi.com) divider line 72
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6310 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2014 at 6:48 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-10 12:56:46 AM  
oh please.  they're freaking birds.  if they have a problem they can just fly someplace without pesticides.  greens have the most incredible gift for making something out of nothing.

like that oil spill in the gulf of mexico-- had any impact on your life?  none for me either.

global warming?  what, like two degrees a year?  who cares.

and what was that stuff about gasoline running out a few years ago?  i just filled up today, and threw paper in the plastic recycling bin as i was driving away.

despite all the whales that have supposedly been killed and all the smog that's attacking me-- i feel perfectly fine.  same as it ever was.

pure hysteria.
 
2014-07-10 02:14:53 AM  

nickdaisy: oh please.  they're freaking birds.  if they have a problem they can just fly someplace without pesticides.  greens have the most incredible gift for making something out of nothing.

like that oil spill in the gulf of mexico-- had any impact on your life?  none for me either.

global warming?  what, like two degrees a year?  who cares.

and what was that stuff about gasoline running out a few years ago?  i just filled up today, and threw paper in the plastic recycling bin as i was driving away.

despite all the whales that have supposedly been killed and all the smog that's attacking me-- i feel perfectly fine.  same as it ever was.

pure hysteria.


5/10
 
2014-07-10 06:52:40 AM  

Bucky Katt: nickdaisy: oh please.  they're freaking birds.  if they have a problem they can just fly someplace without pesticides.  greens have the most incredible gift for making something out of nothing.

like that oil spill in the gulf of mexico-- had any impact on your life?  none for me either.

global warming?  what, like two degrees a year?  who cares.

and what was that stuff about gasoline running out a few years ago?  i just filled up today, and threw paper in the plastic recycling bin as i was driving away.

despite all the whales that have supposedly been killed and all the smog that's attacking me-- i feel perfectly fine.  same as it ever was.

pure hysteria.

5/10


Yeah.  Take out lines 3 and four and he hits an 8/10.  Sometimes less is more.
 
2014-07-10 06:54:02 AM  
Fewer birds to shiat on my car is fine by me.
 
2014-07-10 06:57:02 AM  

Muta: Fewer birds to shiat on my car is fine by me.


See no this is exactly how you do it.
 
2014-07-10 07:00:49 AM  

Egoy3k: Muta: Fewer birds to shiat on my car is fine by me.

See no this is exactly how you do it.


If we could engineer a kind of pollution that only kills street pigeons, I'd convert to being one of those rednecks that adds extra smoke to his car.
 
2014-07-10 07:02:35 AM  
RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER
 
2014-07-10 07:05:12 AM  

Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: Egoy3k: Muta: Fewer birds to shiat on my car is fine by me.

See no this is exactly how you do it.

If we could engineer a kind of pollution that only kills street pigeons, I'd convert to being one of those rednecks that adds extra smoke to his car.


Well it's not pollution but catfish might solve your problem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlcHLTenioA
 
2014-07-10 07:19:00 AM  
I wish they would kill about 2000 starlings here. Evil friggin bastage who introduced them here should be shot, quartered, shot again, and given a ground-up starling enema.
 
2014-07-10 07:20:44 AM  

fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER


Well, yes. But they were all brown people, so we don't worry about it.
 
2014-07-10 07:25:10 AM  

Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: Egoy3k: Muta: Fewer birds to shiat on my car is fine by me.

See no this is exactly how you do it.

If we could engineer a kind of pollution that only kills street pigeons, I'd convert to being one of those rednecks that adds extra smoke to his car.


Feed them to the homeless? I know Mexicans and Europeans eat them. Maybe if it's a way to purge them till they're edible.
 
2014-07-10 07:27:14 AM  
They ought to call them creature-cides.  I'm sure they're great for humans, too.
 
2014-07-10 07:30:10 AM  
How will my children understand the "birds and the bees" talk without any birds or bees left. Won't someone think of the children?!!
 
2014-07-10 07:31:52 AM  
Umm, is it cumulative poisoning, reduced insect feedstocks, or direct poisoning? Come back with a tested causation for your correlation.
 
2014-07-10 07:33:24 AM  
RIP foie gras:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-10 07:40:59 AM  

fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER


THIS!!!
 
2014-07-10 07:49:41 AM  
Electric BUGaloo?
 
2014-07-10 07:56:48 AM  

fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER


upload.wikimedia.org

Also:

img.fark.net

"Neonicotinoids have gone through an extensive risk assessment which has shown that they are safe to the environment when used responsibly according to the label instructions," said a spokesman for the company.

"Birds living close to aquatic habitats -- the species that one could expect to be affected most by concentrations of neonicotinoids in surface water -- show no or negligible negative impact."
 
2014-07-10 07:56:52 AM  

Bucky Katt: 5/10


Yeah that one wasn't bad.

I am actually kind of concerned about the bird/bee population. I'm really quite fond of honey and given that it has no expiration date, am seriously considering purchasing a couple 5 gallon buckets of the stuff should the worst come to pass.
 
2014-07-10 07:59:46 AM  

ajgeek: Bucky Katt: 5/10

Yeah that one wasn't bad.

I am actually kind of concerned about the bird/bee population. I'm really quite fond of honey and given that it has no expiration date, am seriously considering purchasing a couple 5 gallon buckets of the stuff should the worst come to pass.


Never mind honey...take a look at the hit the economy takes without bees.  Tens of billions of dollars.

/externalities for the win...or loss, as the case may be...
 
2014-07-10 08:00:46 AM  

fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER


What's sad/hilarious is people ACTUALLY believe that.

Mostly people who haven't read Silent Spring, of course...
 
2014-07-10 08:02:10 AM  

Brick-House: fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER

THIS!!!


Utter bullshiat.
 
2014-07-10 08:03:30 AM  
I haven't been keeping up, anyone know if this is also responsible for the population crash of Monarch butterflies, or was that just habitat loss?
 
2014-07-10 08:07:07 AM  
I have no idea how valid this study is or how alarming it should be, but if I were promoting it, I would not compare it with Silent Spring which was one of the biggest and most deadly hoaxes of all time.
 
2014-07-10 08:12:23 AM  

AngryDragon: Bucky Katt: nickdaisy: oh please.  they're freaking birds.  if they have a problem they can just fly someplace without pesticides.  greens have the most incredible gift for making something out of nothing.

like that oil spill in the gulf of mexico-- had any impact on your life?  none for me either.

global warming?  what, like two degrees a year?  who cares.

and what was that stuff about gasoline running out a few years ago?  i just filled up today, and threw paper in the plastic recycling bin as i was driving away.

despite all the whales that have supposedly been killed and all the smog that's attacking me-- i feel perfectly fine.  same as it ever was.

pure hysteria.

5/10

Yeah.  Take out lines 3 and four and he hits an 8/10.  Sometimes less is more.


That there is like float fishing. Just too little effort required, but you still might get a hit now and then.
 
2014-07-10 08:22:29 AM  

CivicMindedFive: I have no idea how valid this study is or how alarming it should be, but if I were promoting it, I would not compare it with Silent Spring which was one of the biggest and most deadly hoaxes of all time.


Trolling?  or have you not actually read the book?

"I am not opposed to DDT or to chemical spraying" - Rachel Carson, Silent Spring.

Doesn't get any clearer than that.

/except to wingnut morons
//try to stay out of that category
 
2014-07-10 08:38:07 AM  

Gestalt: I haven't been keeping up, anyone know if this is also responsible for the population crash of Monarch butterflies, or was that just habitat loss?


The Monarchs are having a hell of a time because Milkweed is where Monarchs lay their eggs.  Milkweed is considered a noxious weed, and is about scarce anymore.  Was you were to see it on the edges of fields all the time, but now that's been taken care of.

I'm a beekeeper, and attended a meeting with an Ohio State Prof. who was studying Neonics and Beekeeping.  Being Ohio, it was about Corn/Neonics/Bees.  Here's the gist of it:

1.) Corn treated with neonics is snake oil.  The treatment's highest success rate in killing it's intended pest is best when there is a severe infestation.  That doesn't happen every year, or even every few years.  Cheap insurance for the farmers.  Now you have a hell of a time finding commercial corn that is not treated.  Less choice.  Everyone is on board.
2.) Corn treated with neonics also has a talc mixed in with the kernels to prevent clumping.  The newest grain machines spreads seed by blowing the seeds out.  During process, small chips of treatment come off the kernels, mix with the talc and when are blown out, become a dust that blows as far as the wind will take it coating anything.  Bees are dust magnets.  Bee foraging brings back pollen and dust, feeds it to the brood, and done.
3.) Neonic treated corn is most dangerous when it first sprouts.  If a bee lands on a dewy young corn plant and drinks the dew off it, it will die.  The plant become less dangerous as it grows.
4.) Generally, a bee is happiest to travel with in a 5 mile radius of it's hive.  A bee will travel as far as 15 if it has to.  Because of this, home pesticide use, and commercial pesticide use no one can claim their honey is pesticide free unless they live in the middle of nowhere out west, but here in the east, it would be a difficult claim.

Bats, humming birds (any bird), all pollinating insects, worms, as well as amphibious creatures in creeks, rivers and streams are in danger of this shiat, and it should be absolutely no surprise.
 
2014-07-10 08:38:24 AM  
Everyone who listens to Rush Limbaugh knows that Rachel Carson killed more people than smallpox.
 
2014-07-10 08:45:13 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Everyone who listens to Rush Limbaugh knows that Rachel Carson killed more people than smallpox.


You can always tell people who get their news from FOX and AM radio.
 
2014-07-10 08:47:57 AM  

wildcardjack: Umm, is it cumulative poisoning, reduced insect feedstocks, or direct poisoning? Come back with a tested causation for your correlation.


did you read the Nature article that fast? I bet the pesticide companies could tell us exactly that. After all, they must have figured out the dosage effects when they invented the pesticide.
 
2014-07-10 08:58:30 AM  
... but putting up thousands of windmills everywhere to slice and dice birds is just fine, right?
 
2014-07-10 09:16:55 AM  
they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.
 
2014-07-10 09:18:14 AM  

santadog: Bats, humming birds (any bird), all pollinating insects, worms, as well as amphibious creatures in creeks, rivers and streams are in danger of this shiat, and it should be absolutely no surprise.


Good post.  So rational and factual I have to wonder what the hell you're doing on Fark.

Excellent point about how fast and far this stuff spreads.  It certainly doesn't stay where you put it.  It is my opinion that the rate of spread of this stuff calls into question the entire notion of organic methods.  Just because you aren't spraying your orchard doesn't mean that the guy 2 miles down the road isn't inadvertently doing it for you.

GMO corn, soybeans, and rice are now being found to cross-pollinate non-GMO varieties where they were never planted.  Damn those honeybees, spreading all that pollen!

Thanks for being a bee keeper.  As a farmer, I appreciate the work you guys do.
 
2014-07-10 09:24:30 AM  
 
2014-07-10 09:31:46 AM  

AMonkey'sUncle: AngryDragon: Bucky Katt: nickdaisy: oh please.  they're freaking birds.  if they have a problem they can just fly someplace without pesticides.  greens have the most incredible gift for making something out of nothing.

like that oil spill in the gulf of mexico-- had any impact on your life?  none for me either.

global warming?  what, like two degrees a year?  who cares.

and what was that stuff about gasoline running out a few years ago?  i just filled up today, and threw paper in the plastic recycling bin as i was driving away.

despite all the whales that have supposedly been killed and all the smog that's attacking me-- i feel perfectly fine.  same as it ever was.

pure hysteria.

5/10

Yeah.  Take out lines 3 and four and he hits an 8/10.  Sometimes less is more.

That there is like float fishing. Just too little effort required, but you still might get a hit now and then.


Wow...what's the matter with you guys? I'm still on my first cuppa and even I recognize satire when it slaps me upside the face.

MOAR COFFEE!!!11!
 
2014-07-10 09:34:51 AM  

ChubbyTiger: fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER

Well, yes. But they were all brown people, so we don't worry about it.


No, they still use DDT where brown people live.
 
2014-07-10 09:36:11 AM  

BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.


They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.
 
2014-07-10 09:43:27 AM  

Mr. Right: this stuff calls into question the entire notion of organic methods. Just because you aren't spraying your orchard doesn't mean that the guy 2 miles down the road isn't inadvertently doing it for you.


I dont know if it calls into question organic methods.  All this calls into question is the 100% engineered chem free claim which is a silly claim to make.  It is like a reverse homeopathic idea.  One drop of pesticide on a whole crop will kill you.
 
2014-07-10 09:57:16 AM  
This is NOT a repeat of 1964, 1974, 1984, 1994, or 2004. I repeat: this is not a repeat.
 
2014-07-10 10:09:42 AM  

santadog: Gestalt: I haven't been keeping up, anyone know if this is also responsible for the population crash of Monarch butterflies, or was that just habitat loss?

The Monarchs are having a hell of a time because Milkweed is where Monarchs lay their eggs.  Milkweed is considered a noxious weed, and is about scarce anymore.  Was you were to see it on the edges of fields all the time, but now that's been taken care of.

I'm a beekeeper, and attended a meeting with an Ohio State Prof. who was studying Neonics and Beekeeping.  Being Ohio, it was about Corn/Neonics/Bees.  Here's the gist of it:

1.) Corn treated with neonics is snake oil.  The treatment's highest success rate in killing it's intended pest is best when there is a severe infestation.  That doesn't happen every year, or even every few years.  Cheap insurance for the farmers.  Now you have a hell of a time finding commercial corn that is not treated.  Less choice.  Everyone is on board.
2.) Corn treated with neonics also has a talc mixed in with the kernels to prevent clumping.  The newest grain machines spreads seed by blowing the seeds out.  During process, small chips of treatment come off the kernels, mix with the talc and when are blown out, become a dust that blows as far as the wind will take it coating anything.  Bees are dust magnets.  Bee foraging brings back pollen and dust, feeds it to the brood, and done.
3.) Neonic treated corn is most dangerous when it first sprouts.  If a bee lands on a dewy young corn plant and drinks the dew off it, it will die.  The plant become less dangerous as it grows.
4.) Generally, a bee is happiest to travel with in a 5 mile radius of it's hive.  A bee will travel as far as 15 if it has to.  Because of this, home pesticide use, and commercial pesticide use no one can claim their honey is pesticide free unless they live in the middle of nowhere out west, but here in the east, it would be a difficult claim.

Bats, humming birds (any bird), all pollinating insects, worms, as ...


People are really cavalier about the bee problem and it really pisses me off.

Here is a partial list of the things that bees pollinate that we would all lose-

okra, kiwis, onions, cashews, celery, brazil nuts, beets, mustard, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussel sprouts, turnips, all peppers, papaya, caraway, chestnuts, watermelon, tangerine, coconuts, COFFEE, cantaloupe, pumpkin, zucchini, lemon, lime, carrots, figs, fennel, strawberries, cotton, sunflowers, apples, mangoes, passionfruit, avocados, all beans, apricots, cherries, almonds, peaches, pomegranates, pears, currants, raspberries, blackberries, sesame, eggplant, blueberries, cranberries, tomatoes, and grapes (WINE)...

And for the person who posts the "Beets? Who cares?" post F you.
 
2014-07-10 10:25:44 AM  

give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.

They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.


Really?  Has something changed since February?
 
2014-07-10 10:26:46 AM  

PunGent: fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER

What's sad/hilarious is people ACTUALLY believe that.

Mostly people who haven't read Silent Spring, of course...


I couldn't read a book of it. I was creeped out enough playing in the dark with all those nearly invisible mewling babies coming at me in the abandoned school.
 
2014-07-10 10:31:27 AM  

Brick-House: fusillade762: RACHEL CARLSON HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN HITLER

THIS!!!


Because DDT kills all bad insects, it kills only bad insects, it is absolutely harmless to everything but bad insects, there is *nothing other than DDT* that kills bad insects and eggshell thinning isn't a problem because that eggshell doesn't have to support ten pounds of raptor sitting on it.
 
2014-07-10 10:50:06 AM  

BravadoGT: give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.

They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.

Really?  Has something changed since February?



Really? Quoting "soon to be published" that haven't been peer-reviewed studies? Mentioning inconclusive studies in passing?

Bro, do you even science?
 
2014-07-10 11:00:35 AM  
This is nonsense. Everybody knows that God said we run the world. He wouldn't let anything happen to us. Everything is going to be alright. We just have to pray. Scientists are a bunch of alarmists.
 
2014-07-10 11:13:13 AM  

give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.

They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.

Really?  Has something changed since February?


Really? Quoting "soon to be published" that haven't been peer-reviewed studies? Mentioning inconclusive studies in passing?

Bro, do you even science?


Did you miss the part where they said

DEFRA's caution about basing regulations on preliminary data was underscored last fall with the release of the most comprehensive peer-reviewed study on thiamethoixam, published in Apidologie. It concluded: "[A]t realistic (mean) exposure rates...no adverse impacts on brood production [of bumblebees] were found."
 
2014-07-10 11:30:43 AM  

BravadoGT: give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.

They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.

Really?  Has something changed since February?


actually there was a study done in Oct that positively linked it. Basically it is lowering the immune systems of the bees.
I was just as defensive as you are until I was pointed to that study.
http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/24/key-molecule-links-neonicoinoids-to-b ee -viruses/
 
2014-07-10 11:31:47 AM  
Honeybees are one of the biggest monocultures out there.
Native to Europe, they are an invasive species elsewhere and drive down the native local wild bees. And they're only really good at pollinating Old World plants, and nowhere near as effective as local bees when it comes to New World crops.
But they're so cute! To hell with the problems of monoculture and invasive species. Plus, we white folks love that honey!
 
2014-07-10 11:38:53 AM  

mr lawson: BravadoGT: give me doughnuts: BravadoGT: they also said neonics were responsible for killing the bees---until they said they weren't.

I'll reserve judgment.

They're still saying it's neonicotinoids.

Really?  Has something changed since February?

actually there was a study done in Oct that positively linked it. Basically it is lowering the immune systems of the bees.
I was just as defensive as you are until I was pointed to that study.
http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/24/key-molecule-links-neonicoinoids-to-b ee -viruses/


I don't care how much "evidence" or "peer reviewed studies" or "consensus" there is regarding this.

I'll reserve judgment.
 
2014-07-10 11:43:45 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I'll reserve judgment


I respect that.
Me being the spacenutter that I am, bees are important to me (space station food..ect)
This study makes sense to me. Indirect cause.
 
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