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(Huffington Post)   Terrorists in Iraq have chemical weapons, according to--wait, no, come back, I'm serious this time   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Iraq, Iraq WMD, Baghdadi, Levant, nerve agents, terrorist groups, sarin, artillery shells  
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4642 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 4:15 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-09 07:12:29 PM  
Actually Loadmaster, you use one too many words - try "THIS WON"T END"
 
2014-07-09 07:41:45 PM  
all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny decal on them

www.craftechcorp.com
 
2014-07-09 07:54:18 PM  
fark it. Just invade again. Last time we marched, we petitioned, we exposed lies

and people just got killed to shut them up and the war happened anyway so fark it.

There is no connection between the will of the people want and the decisions that get made.

There is no democracy.
 
2014-07-09 08:00:55 PM  

FormlessOne: "Hey, we want attention! The US doesn't believe us - let's go to the UN! They're dumb enough to believe anything - remember that Powell fella?"


They'll believe ya, or its Freedom Fries!
 
2014-07-09 08:12:18 PM  

pedobearapproved: Ral: RexTalionis: GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.

Even by the time the Iraq War rolled around, the chemical weapons Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds (of which the weapons in this article are a portion) would've long since passed their expiration date. Sarin have a really really short shelf-life before it degrades to the point where it's utterly useless. The weapons that we knew they had would've still been useless. The Bush administration was trying to show that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium to produce a nuclear weapon (through seriously bad and already debunked intelligence).

Oh I'm not saying that Hussein had big viable stockpiles or anything.  Just that Iraq did know how to make them, had used them in the past, and could do so in the future if they got their shiat together.  Hussein's weapon stockpile, however, was essentially nonexistent at the time we invaded.

It's like the guy that's been in jail for having and distributing child porn, and now he's on probation. He has a history of having it, he has a history of sending it out. When he suddenly says "you can only look at my laptop today, not my desktop, and I thought you'd forgotten about those flash drives. Well you can look at them next...month, yeah next month, if I don't change my mind. Also I'm going to call the judge because my rights are being violated by you people wanting to see my stuff" It's going to look suspicious.

If Hussein had just opened everything up for the inspectors he and his son's would still be alive and he will still be a tin-pot dictator.

/it did seriously look like he was holding on to stuff, if not because he had weapons, but more to keep the hard to acquire stuff he had been using to make weapons previously so once sanctions were gone he could go back to killing hi ...


That is one of the most idiotic things I've read on here.  Do you honestly think that everyone's behavior in the world revolves around US foreign policy?  Try this on for size:

Saddam's natural enemy is Iran.  The last time Iran invaded, Saddam only survived through the assistance of the US, and it's use of WMDs.

Fast forward to the late 90s.  Saddam's natural enemy is still Iran.  Saddam's military is in a shambles.  No fly zones prevent any serious military aviation.  Saddam has no superpower benefactor any more.  The only thing he might have going for him is WMDs to ward off an Iranian invasion.  Does he or doesn't he have them?  If he says he does, the west will attack.  If he says he doesn't, the Iranians will invade.

Of course he played the WMD shell game.  It was the only thing keeping his enemies at bay.
 
2014-07-09 08:26:48 PM  

MooseUpNorth: GORDON: [Blah blah blah]

... Is what the chickenhawks are going to see in your post, I'm afraid. Too facts. Won't read.


I pull that list out from time to time when I see all the "bush lied" crap popping up again.  I knew ten years ago that people would forget reality, that EVERY person in power, dem and repub, were spouting off about saddam's wmds.

But nope, there was an election to win so we got to change history.  Then that is the crap people choose to remember.
 
2014-07-09 08:52:18 PM  
Even the most anti-Iraq-war realist (both of us) knew there was never any question of Saddam's either having chemical weapons, or having the capacity to have them on short notice. Nerve agents are just pesticide derivatives, after all, so just because he didn't have them right this minute, he certainly could have had them within a short period of time.

The issue always was or should have been: Was he IN FACT stockpiling chemical and/or biological weapons at that time in violation of treaties, with an immediate intent to begin using them? And the answer to that was clearly No, he was not.

However, that kind of marginally complex analysis does not lend itself to either sound bites or a 10-second summary on the evening news, so instead it was distilled and diluted down to "Does Saddam have WMDs?!? Will there be a mushroom cloud?!? Film at 11!"
 
2014-07-09 09:11:07 PM  

MonoChango: GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.

Yeah because they most likely moved it all over to Syria just before the US invaded.  But that doesn't matter to the news.  They only want to make sure you KNOW that "Bush is Evil" (tm), without any complex thought process about what really happened or how that might be relevant to what is happening now.


Yes because I'm sure we don't have any type of satellite imaging or anything, and we probably wouldn't have been watching that shiat like a farking hawk before we invaded or anything of the sort. Plus I'm sure no one in the Bush administration, the military, CIA, or Fox "news" would have mentioned anything about it if they had any type of intel at all suggesting he had WMDs and moved them.

Take your pathetic, not even well thought out, revisionist history and stick up back up your arse where you pulled it from. Saddam having weapons of mass destruction has been debunked so well and so often the tea party doesn't even bring it up anymore.
 
2014-07-09 09:12:45 PM  

BigNumber12: brimed03: BigNumber12: FitzShivering: It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.

I'll say.

I want to get the joke but I don't recognize the picture.

He's the sort of guy you'd talk to if you wanted to name something "Project Babylon."


And what is it that put America in the forefront of the nuclear nations? And what is it that will make it possible to spend 20 billion dollars of your money to put some clown on the moon? Well, it was good old American know-how, that's what. As provided by good old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun.

Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown.
"Ha, Nazi Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.

You too may be a big hero,
sponsored links
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese," says Wernher von Braun.

- the immortal Tom Lehrer
 
2014-07-09 09:29:07 PM  

GORDON: Summoner101: cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleezza Rice, September 2002

The Bush group was drumming up a nuclear scare unless you think chemical weapons are synonymous with mushroom clouds

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N ...


Ever notice how the wingnuts NEVER properly source their quotes?

/hard to get out of the habit of just making shiat up, I guess...
//go on...add the Mossad quote in
///you guys always seem to leave THAT one out :)
 
2014-07-09 09:29:44 PM  

GORDON: MooseUpNorth: GORDON: [Blah blah blah]

... Is what the chickenhawks are going to see in your post, I'm afraid. Too facts. Won't read.

I pull that list out from time to time when I see all the "bush lied" crap popping up again.  I knew ten years ago that people would forget reality, that EVERY person in power, dem and repub, were spouting off about saddam's wmds.

But nope, there was an election to win so we got to change history.  Then that is the crap people choose to remember.


Finally i got the "point" of your list. Bush did lie, and I don't care how many idiots supported his decision at the time. He lied to the people in order to garner support for yet another act of aggression against yet another sovereign nation.

What part of telling us that there's nukes around the corner, and that our nation was directly threatened by some asshole on the other side of the world, wasn't a lie? There were no nukes, all of the evidence to suggest otherwise was found to be fabricated by a con man, and Sadam was not even remotely close to being a threat to anybody but Iran.
 
2014-07-09 11:02:50 PM  

Dedmon: GORDON: MooseUpNorth: GORDON: [Blah blah blah]

... Is what the chickenhawks are going to see in your post, I'm afraid. Too facts. Won't read.

I pull that list out from time to time when I see all the "bush lied" crap popping up again.  I knew ten years ago that people would forget reality, that EVERY person in power, dem and repub, were spouting off about saddam's wmds.

But nope, there was an election to win so we got to change history.  Then that is the crap people choose to remember.

Finally i got the "point" of your list. Bush did lie, and I don't care how many idiots supported his decision at the time. He lied to the people in order to garner support for yet another act of aggression against yet another sovereign nation.

What part of telling us that there's nukes around the corner, and that our nation was directly threatened by some asshole on the other side of the world, wasn't a lie? There were no nukes, all of the evidence to suggest otherwise was found to be fabricated by a con man, and Sadam was not even remotely close to being a threat to anybody but Iran.


Not only that, but the Bush administration began planning to invade Iraq in January, 8 months before 9/11 even happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/10/oneill.bush/

It was all a lie, it was a waste of money and lives. We started to torture our enemies (openly at least) and had pictures of that torture leaked, and finally we were told that a "troop surge" was what finally calmed the Iraqis down when actually we started paying them off to stop attacking us. (so apparently funding terrorism is OK now too)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/19/pentagon.surge/

The Iraq war was arguably the biggest fark up in American military history, and the aholes that put us there in the first place think we should go back.
 
2014-07-09 11:11:37 PM  

Dr Dreidel: cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.

As mentioned in TFA, these are degraded ordnance that would more than likely be toxic only to those "liberating" them, and of little use in warfare without some real chemical help.

Besides which, these are stockpiles we knew about before 2003, that the UN was inspecting coontil early March, for some reason) and decommissioning, and have not been kept in ready-to-fire form.

So...yes?

// it's like that woman in the novella in the middle of The Stand:
// they've found grandpa's old six-shooter and are sitting on the porch with it waiting for the rapers to come, only they seem to be the only ones who don't realize it's going to blow up in their faces


No great loss.
 
2014-07-09 11:39:02 PM  

Omahawg: all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny decal on them

[www.craftechcorp.com image 720x540]


The threads change. The "everything bad is because of the U.S." lies stay the same.
 
2014-07-10 01:53:33 AM  

BigNumber12: Omahawg: all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny decal on them

[www.craftechcorp.com image 720x540]

The threads change. The "everything bad is because of the U.S." lies stay the same.


no, the unintended consequences of American intervention in other people's affairs stays the same. Just ask Mohammed Mossadegh.
 
2014-07-10 08:05:45 AM  
static.guim.co.uk

//oblig
 
2014-07-10 11:13:25 AM  

Omahawg: BigNumber12: Omahawg: all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny decal on them

[www.craftechcorp.com image 720x540]

The threads change. The "everything bad is because of the U.S." lies stay the same.

no, the unintended consequences of American intervention in other people's affairs stays the same. Just ask Mohammed Mossadegh.


Try reading up on where Saddam's chemical weapons program came from, champ. Or don't, if you're enjoying repeating that lie.
 
2014-07-10 12:49:26 PM  

BigNumber12: Omahawg: BigNumber12: Omahawg: all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny decal on them

[www.craftechcorp.com image 720x540]

The threads change. The "everything bad is because of the U.S." lies stay the same.

no, the unintended consequences of American intervention in other people's affairs stays the same. Just ask Mohammed Mossadegh.

Try reading up on where Saddam's chemical weapons program came from, champ. Or don't, if you're enjoying repeating that lie.


I looked it up, and hey guess what, they came from the U.S. Not only from the U.S. but from the very same people who insisted we go to war with them, back when they were working for Reagan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-and-iraq-go-way-back/

FTA: "The newspaper says a review of a large tranche of government documents reveals that the administrations of President Reagan and the first President Bush both authorized providing Iraq with intelligence and logistical support, and okayed the sale of dual use items - those with military and civilian applications - that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague."

Sure his nuclear program came from Russia, but then he didn't ever successfully nuke anyone did he? Did we find nukes? We didn't even find chemical weapons, other than the old ones we sold him that were useless and/or dangerous to even have.

I'm sure you have plenty of evidence showing it came from someone else though, I'd like to take a look at it. Think you could link some of it?
 
2014-07-10 04:02:50 PM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: I'm sure you have plenty of evidence showing it came from someone else though, I'd like to take a look at it. Think you could link some of it?


Sure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program#The_1980 s_ program

Europe's hands are far dirtier than ours on this one. Brazil, Singapore, Egypt, India, China... all far more blatant than we were. Pretty farking far from "all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny [U.S.] decal on them."

But hating on the U.S. just feels soooo goooooooooood.
 
2014-07-10 06:19:09 PM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: dual use items - those with military and civilian applications - that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague.


OK, I can understand Anthrax but what is the `dual use` for Bubonic Plague?
 
2014-07-10 08:52:00 PM  

BigNumber12: squirrelflavoredyogurt: I'm sure you have plenty of evidence showing it came from someone else though, I'd like to take a look at it. Think you could link some of it?

Sure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program#The_1980 s_ program

Europe's hands are far dirtier than ours on this one. Brazil, Singapore, Egypt, India, China... all far more blatant than we were. Pretty farking far from "all saddam's chemical weapons had this funny [U.S.] decal on them."

But hating on the U.S. just feels soooo goooooooooood.


Suggesting we're not to blame because we're only one of the many to blame doesn't in any way excuse our involvement.

I wouldn't know about hating America, I do hate a lot of the dumbass shiat we let "conservatives" get away with though. Like "enhanced" interrogation, screwing over veterans because the care of them "isn't paid for", cutting food and medicine to those in need, wanting to fight endless wars for no better reason than cheap oil, and pretending that the environment is just fine because Jesus, or mars, or sunspots, or whatever today's excuse is.

Funny thing about people who like to suggest I hate America, you seem to have no problem hating other Americans. A flag, a motto, some patriotic songs, is that where your loyalties lie? I'd rather see Americans taking care of each other and trying to be better people, not starting wars, not torturing our enemies, rather than rationalizing how we weren't to blame for all the evil shiat we've done.

But rationalization just feels soooo goooooooooood.
 
2014-07-10 08:58:32 PM  

dready zim: squirrelflavoredyogurt: dual use items - those with military and civilian applications - that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague.

OK, I can understand Anthrax but what is the `dual use` for Bubonic Plague?


Killing Iraqis and Iranians? I don't think too many tears would have been spilled if it had gotten out widespread across the middle east.
 
2014-07-11 12:29:48 AM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Suggesting we're not to blame because we're only one of the many to blame doesn't in any way excuse our involvement.


Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that. Read my posts, and the one I was taking issue with.

squirrelflavoredyogurt: I wouldn't know about hating America, I do hate a lot of the dumbass shiat we let "conservatives" get away with though. Like "enhanced" interrogation, screwing over veterans because the care of them "isn't paid for", cutting food and medicine to those in need, wanting to fight endless wars for no better reason than cheap oil, and pretending that the environment is just fine because Jesus, or mars, or sunspots, or whatever today's excuse is.


Ooookay, head off on your tangent, then.

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Funny thing about people who like to suggest I hate America


Are you Omahawg's alt? You're taking a comment that wasn't directed at you pretty personally.
 
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