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(Huffington Post)   Terrorists in Iraq have chemical weapons, according to--wait, no, come back, I'm serious this time   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 73
    More: Followup, Iraq, Iraq WMD, Baghdadi, Levant, nerve agents, terrorist groups, sarin, artillery shells  
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4610 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 4:15 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-09 02:48:22 PM
Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.
 
2014-07-09 04:16:23 PM
So wait, where did you say the wolf was the was attacking the sheep this time?
 
2014-07-09 04:18:20 PM

RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.

.

That's pretty much why we stayed away from it.  Though since we were there I figure the least we could have done is bury it or something, not like we didn't have the time and/or the sand
 
2014-07-09 04:20:54 PM
So, you're saying the animals that act like they live in a Ren Fair with no rules might come up with some more evil thing that killing someone outright because they don't like the cut of their beard, or how much of the woman's face they can see? You want me to believe that these absolute sand savages are capable of this sort of heinous behavior?
 
2014-07-09 04:21:41 PM

RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.


That's my guess, too. And it's not like these new terrorist guys are chemical engineers who just might know what they're doing.
 
2014-07-09 04:23:01 PM
So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.
 
2014-07-09 04:24:16 PM

RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.


On top of that, most of the casings of Sarin in that factory by now are more efficiently used by disassembling them and using the chemicals as a cleaning agent (since it is now just phosphoric acid).

Maybe put some of these on them?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-07-09 04:26:11 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-09 04:27:50 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


As mentioned in TFA, these are degraded ordnance that would more than likely be toxic only to those "liberating" them, and of little use in warfare without some real chemical help.

Besides which, these are stockpiles we knew about before 2003, that the UN was inspecting (until early March, for some reason) and decommissioning, and have not been kept in ready-to-fire form.

So...yes?

// it's like that woman in the novella in the middle of The Stand:
// they've found grandpa's old six-shooter and are sitting on the porch with it waiting for the rapers to come, only they seem to be the only ones who don't realize it's going to blow up in their faces
 
Ral
2014-07-09 04:33:24 PM
FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.
 
2014-07-09 04:34:45 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


Oh, the chickenhawk brigade has showed up!
 
2014-07-09 04:36:13 PM
The Islamic State extremist group has taken control of a vast former chemical weapons facility northwest of Baghdad, where remnants of 2,500 degraded chemical rockets filled decades ago with the deadly nerve agent sarin


Have fun fiddling with those, cavemen.
 
2014-07-09 04:36:22 PM

Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.


It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.
 
2014-07-09 04:37:20 PM

MelGoesOnTour: RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.

That's my guess, too. And it's not like these new terrorist guys are chemical engineers who just might know what they're doing.


I doubt they'd have too much trouble finding somebody with a little chemistry no-how, it's Iraq.
 
2014-07-09 04:39:41 PM

GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.


Even by the time the Iraq War rolled around, the chemical weapons Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds (of which the weapons in this article are a portion) would've long since passed their expiration date. Sarin have a really really short shelf-life before it degrades to the point where it's utterly useless. The weapons that we knew they had would've still been useless. The Bush administration was trying to show that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium to produce a nuclear weapon (through seriously bad and already debunked intelligence).
 
2014-07-09 04:40:21 PM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-07-09 04:41:22 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-07-09 04:43:11 PM
politicalcomment.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-09 04:43:29 PM
I have chemical weapons too!

Under my sink.
 
Ral
2014-07-09 04:44:17 PM

RexTalionis: GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.

Even by the time the Iraq War rolled around, the chemical weapons Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds (of which the weapons in this article are a portion) would've long since passed their expiration date. Sarin have a really really short shelf-life before it degrades to the point where it's utterly useless. The weapons that we knew they had would've still been useless. The Bush administration was trying to show that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium to produce a nuclear weapon (through seriously bad and already debunked intelligence).


Oh I'm not saying that Hussein had big viable stockpiles or anything.  Just that Iraq did know how to make them, had used them in the past, and could do so in the future if they got their shiat together.  Hussein's weapon stockpile, however, was essentially nonexistent at the time we invaded.
 
2014-07-09 04:46:06 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


I am so confused by the "chemical weapons don't count" argument.  SecState Powell specifically mentioned them in his address to the UN in Feb 2003. (Cf.  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.usa)

My opinion; the bulk of the WMD was in Syria before the US & Allies rolled in.  And we sucked at finding what was left after we rolled in.  There were indication that chemical weapons like the ones Hussein had used on his own people had been in Iraq in 2003 (cf.  http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/international/worldspecial/07CND-CH E M.html ), but somehow that didn't count either.

And, could someone source the "we knew about these and these were not what we were looking for" assertion?  I hear it, but haven't seen anything substantial behind it.

This being said, Iraq 2003 was the wrong war at the wrong time for the US.  We should have waited until the Iraqis slimed the Iranians, then wrung our hands about the tragedy.
 
2014-07-09 04:46:15 PM

GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.


Yeah because they most likely moved it all over to Syria just before the US invaded.  But that doesn't matter to the news.  They only want to make sure you KNOW that "Bush is Evil" (tm), without any complex thought process about what really happened or how that might be relevant to what is happening now.
 
2014-07-09 04:46:45 PM

leevis: MelGoesOnTour: RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.

That's my guess, too. And it's not like these new terrorist guys are chemical engineers who just might know what they're doing.

I doubt they'd have too much trouble finding somebody with a little chemistry no-how, it's Iraq.


And the fact that they have billions of dollars.  It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.
 
2014-07-09 04:51:15 PM

FitzShivering: It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.


img.fark.net

I'll say.
 
2014-07-09 04:53:14 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleezza Rice, September 2002

The Bush group was drumming up a nuclear scare unless you think chemical weapons are synonymous with mushroom clouds
 
2014-07-09 04:55:25 PM

Summoner101: cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleezza Rice, September 2002

The Bush group was drumming up a nuclear scare unless you think chemical weapons are synonymous with mushroom clouds


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-07-09 04:57:49 PM

leevis: MelGoesOnTour: RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.

That's my guess, too. And it's not like these new terrorist guys are chemical engineers who just might know what they're doing.

I doubt they'd have too much trouble finding somebody with a little chemistry no-how, it's Iraq.


This is not like some high school teacher deciding to whip up a little meth. (Which would make a neat TV show btw-- you can have that idea for free.) Chemical weapons are require expertise by an order of several magnitudes greater. I can't imagine there are more than a dozen scientists fitting the bill still around in Iraq. Far of whom who would be likely to join a harsh and repressive group that doesn't exactly embrace science.
 
2014-07-09 04:58:59 PM

ReverendJynxed:


Lmfao hadn't seen that one yet.
 
2014-07-09 05:02:06 PM
Can an abandoned factory be racist?
 
2014-07-09 05:03:14 PM

BigNumber12: FitzShivering: It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.



I'll say.


I want to get the joke but I don't recognize the picture.
 
2014-07-09 05:05:09 PM

brimed03: leevis: MelGoesOnTour: RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.

That's my guess, too. And it's not like these new terrorist guys are chemical engineers who just might know what they're doing.

I doubt they'd have too much trouble finding somebody with a little chemistry no-how, it's Iraq.

This is not like some high school teacher deciding to whip up a little meth. (Which would make a neat TV show btw-- you can have that idea for free.) Chemical weapons are require expertise by an order of several magnitudes greater. I can't imagine there are more than a dozen scientists fitting the bill still around in Iraq. Far of whom who would be likely to join a harsh and repressive group that doesn't exactly embrace science.


I farking hate cellphone typing.
 
2014-07-09 05:06:40 PM

Summoner101: cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleezza Rice, September 2002

The Bush group was drumming up a nuclear scare unless you think chemical weapons are synonymous with mushroom clouds

"

[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
 
2014-07-09 05:09:54 PM

brimed03: BigNumber12: FitzShivering: It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.

I'll say.

I want to get the joke but I don't recognize the picture.


He's the sort of guy you'd talk to if you wanted to name something "Project Babylon."
 
2014-07-09 05:11:51 PM

BigNumber12: brimed03: BigNumber12: FitzShivering: It's not hard to hire people to do things for you if you're willing to pay enough, no matter what it is.

I'll say.

I want to get the joke but I don't recognize the picture.

He's the sort of guy you'd talk to if you wanted to name something "Project Babylon."


That sounds like a load of Bull.
 
2014-07-09 05:12:23 PM

Unknown_Poltroon: So wait, where did you say the wolf was the was attacking the sheep this time?


It's the Wolfowitz.
 
2014-07-09 05:13:26 PM

RexTalionis: Considering that those terrorists captured an abandoned and rundown chemical munitions factory with highly degraded weapons, I'd imagine that it's more likely that they'll wind up accidentally poisoning themselves with cyanide residue rather than actually using those weapons against somebody else.


That would be highly amusing.

But seriously. Iraq did not have /chemical/ weapons. The facility have been inspected and cleared by the UN.
 
2014-07-09 05:17:45 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


ZOMG! DUBBLE-YOO-EMM-DEEEZ!!!1
 
2014-07-09 05:18:53 PM
Oh. Look. Argentina and the Netherlands are playing football.
 
2014-07-09 05:20:07 PM

Ral: RexTalionis: GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.

Even by the time the Iraq War rolled around, the chemical weapons Saddam Hussein used on the Kurds (of which the weapons in this article are a portion) would've long since passed their expiration date. Sarin have a really really short shelf-life before it degrades to the point where it's utterly useless. The weapons that we knew they had would've still been useless. The Bush administration was trying to show that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium to produce a nuclear weapon (through seriously bad and already debunked intelligence).

Oh I'm not saying that Hussein had big viable stockpiles or anything.  Just that Iraq did know how to make them, had used them in the past, and could do so in the future if they got their shiat together.  Hussein's weapon stockpile, however, was essentially nonexistent at the time we invaded.


It's like the guy that's been in jail for having and distributing child porn, and now he's on probation. He has a history of having it, he has a history of sending it out. When he suddenly says "you can only look at my laptop today, not my desktop, and I thought you'd forgotten about those flash drives. Well you can look at them next...month, yeah next month, if I don't change my mind. Also I'm going to call the judge because my rights are being violated by you people wanting to see my stuff" It's going to look suspicious.

If Hussein had just opened everything up for the inspectors he and his son's would still be alive and he will still be a tin-pot dictator.

/it did seriously look like he was holding on to stuff, if not because he had weapons, but more to keep the hard to acquire stuff he had been using to make weapons previously so once sanctions were gone he could go back to killing his citizens that he didn't like.
 
2014-07-09 05:24:46 PM

Laobaojun: cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.

I am so confused by the "chemical weapons don't count" argument.  SecState Powell specifically mentioned them in his address to the UN in Feb 2003. (Cf.  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.usa)

My opinion; the bulk of the WMD was in Syria before the US & Allies rolled in.  And we sucked at finding what was left after we rolled in.  There were indication that chemical weapons like the ones Hussein had used on his own people had been in Iraq in 2003 (cf.  http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/international/worldspecial/07CND-CH E M.html ), but somehow that didn't count either.

And, could someone source the "we knew about these and these were not what we were looking for" assertion?  I hear it, but haven't seen anything substantial behind it.

This being said, Iraq 2003 was the wrong war at the wrong time for the US.  We should have waited until the Iraqis slimed the Iranians, then wrung our hands about the tragedy.


You forgot about the anthrax. Colin Powell told the UN all about Saddams anthrax. John McCain said he used it in the US after 9-11. It was never found.

Iraq may be trying to attack us again right now!!!!
 
2014-07-09 05:32:25 PM

"Hey, we want attention! The US doesn't believe us - let's go to the UN! They're dumb enough to believe anything - remember that Powell fella?"

 
2014-07-09 05:37:31 PM

GORDON: Ral: FYI, they've always had chemical weapons.  That was never actually in doubt.  We know for a fact that gas was used on Kurds and killed quite a lot of people.

It was my understanding that Bush lied about chemical weapons, though.


Note to Self--
Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Weapons are all (and have always been) considered Weapons of Mass Destruction... thus making Goddam Insane was both a dictatorial ass shat, and a valid target for Desert Storm II, Bomba-palooza in the Sand, circa 2003.

and just to keep current, weaponized Swimming Pool Chlorine and both mixtures of Herbicides, noxious cleaning agents and some Fertilizers are also on this list... (Chlorine Bleach plus toilet bowl cleaner)... so that puts Islamic Terrorists, Iran and any other asshats on the Bomb on Sight list too.

Don't get me started on bath-tub anthrax, nor Sarin nerve agent.
 
2014-07-09 05:41:21 PM
What color cake do they have this time?
 
2014-07-09 05:43:55 PM

Laobaojun: And, could someone source the "we knew about these and these were not what we were looking for" assertion?  I hear it, but haven't seen anything substantial behind it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#UN SC OM_inspections_1991-1998

Read that (and the next section).
 
2014-07-09 06:27:41 PM
From TFA:  "The U.S. government played down the threat from the takeover, saying there are no intact chemical weapons and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to use the material for military purposes."

Oh, NOOOOOOOW we're saying that.

================================

Fark you, Bush.  All this ISIS shiat with the death and destruction they will bring about is YOUR FAULT.

Since I don't believe in Hell I have to settle for hoping you get raped to death by a horse.

And being reincarnated as a lesbian in Afghanistan.
 
2014-07-09 06:36:17 PM
static.tvtropes.org

Nope. Not gonna fall for it.
 
2014-07-09 06:39:39 PM

BafflerMeal: [dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 634x116]


I'll do my yearly log in to applaud a Get Your War On callback. Well done.
 
2014-07-09 06:53:21 PM

GORDON: [Blah blah blah]


... Is what the chickenhawks are going to see in your post, I'm afraid. Too facts. Won't read.
 
2014-07-09 06:54:32 PM

cig-mkr: So there were weapons of mass destruction there ?
Oops, my bad they were only chemical weapons.


They were not ert chemical weapons.
There were toxic byproducts of rendering them inert present - a decade ago.

/Want to know how we all know you didn't read TFA?
//Keep on "panicking", though. It's entertaining.
///Not.
 
2014-07-09 07:08:28 PM
 
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