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(New York Sun)   1) Write byzantine sex-assault regulations for colleges 2) Accept high-dollar job helping colleges evade byzantine sex-assault regulations 3) Profit 4) Repeat   (nysun.com) divider line 124
    More: Obvious  
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7128 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 3:04 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-09 04:06:32 PM  
5 votes:

JackieRabbit: I can tell you with no reservation whatsoever that rape was NEVER tolerated when I attended college a quarter-centry ago. So don't give me the "it isn't tolerated now the way it once was." Because this is a myth; it never happened.


It happened - it just wasn't reported, there weren't large support and legal movements to ensure it was publicized and punished, and there weren't massive support networks stretching across the country to assist victims and compile statistics on the subject.  Universities look bad when this comes to light.

And at your school, I'm willing to bet drunken parties were happening every other night.  And at those parties, I'm sure there were women who were taken advantage of while in an unconscious or semi-conscious state - during or after that party.  Sometimes with forethought by the men, sometimes the opportunity presented itself and was taken.  And for 20 years, the women and men involved make up excuses like "I was drunk, it just happened", or "I had no idea it happened until the next day", or 20 other excuses that are painted for it.  They gather up their clothes, go home, and try to forget about it.

The tolerance level for that has dropped in recent years.  It's no longer an issue of "we were drunk".  That was used to excuse things.  Now, the question is "did she consent?"  Lucid, able to form coherent thought and clear intent.

If the answer isn't an unqualified "yes", then, sir, you have a serious farking problem.
Ant
2014-07-09 03:29:45 PM  
5 votes:

KawaiiNot: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

Seriously, I wonder this too. Are more parents failing at raising their boys to be real men these days? It was not an epidemic back when I went to college and was in the military. It happened but it was much more rare.


It was not more rare, they just got away with it back then.
2014-07-09 03:18:44 PM  
5 votes:

JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?


What's going on is that women, on campuses and off, get raped now and got raped in the past at a much higher rate than people think.
2014-07-09 05:49:19 PM  
4 votes:

KawaiiNot: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

Seriously, I wonder this too. Are more parents failing at raising their boys to be real men these days? It was not an epidemic back when I went to college and was in the military. It happened but it was much more rare.


Yes, it was an epidemic. No, it was not more rare.

People just didn't talk about it then. It wasn't rape... it was "a misunderstanding." It was "boys being boys." It was girls "leading boys on." It was girls "overreacting" and becoming "hysterical."

It was a prevalent attitude that kept thousands of women from ever reporting it. That punished those who did report it. That swept these things under the carpet, never to see judicial resolution or reach public awareness.

I've got to say, it's taking me a lot of effort to explain this. What I really want to do is look amazed and half-shout "are you kidding me? Does anyone really still think this way anymore?"

Look, either the world has inexplicably gotten so very much worse in a mere 50 years, or we're finally talking about a problem that has always existed. Which seems more likely to you?
2014-07-09 04:02:09 PM  
4 votes:

Corvus: Oh sorry that's not what your talking about? Because that's exactly what you said. You just said if the woman get's drunk it's still not rape. You just said that. Now you are pretending that's not what you said.


I said nothing of the sort. I said having consensual sex while drunk is not rape. To suggest that just because one is drunk one cannot grant consent is absurd. Using that logic, if one is drunk and asks for a ride home, one can later claim to have been kidnapped.

So you are saying that if a married woman gets drunk, seduces, and has sex with her husband/boyfriend/whatever, he raped her? Being drunk will lower one's inhibitions and may lead them to do things they would not normally do. Sometimes this is consenting to have sex with someone you wouldn't normally have sex with. Having consensual sex with a guy and then accusing him of rape just because you were drunk is reprehensible and immoral.

But I can see that my serious question has brought out the Internet morons who do not know reason when they see it. So I leave this thread to the trolls.
2014-07-09 03:23:00 PM  
4 votes:

JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?


I don't think it's happening more, it's just finally being treated as unacceptable behavior and a brighter light is being put on it.

"Kids get drunk, kids have sex, better deal with consequences, ladies" is an antiquated way of looking at it.  Today, it's "whatever you did to get there, consent was never given, better deal with the consequences, gentlemen".
2014-07-09 03:19:02 PM  
4 votes:

gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


It's still a serious, although separate problem.  The entire subject is serious, and has consequences.  False accusations should be dealt with harshly.

On to the main point:  Ladies: do not go to a college administrator if you are raped.  Go to the police.
2014-07-09 03:08:14 PM  
4 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]


Congratulations on two items:

1)  Demonstrating the fallacy of misleading vividness in a nearly perfect way.

2)  Justifying your favorite tag of "Sexist Prick" for at least the third time in the last week.

I commend you.  March on!
2014-07-10 01:17:32 PM  
3 votes:

Ishkur: That's an odd thing to ask. It's like saying "does being hot hurt the sun?"


Patriarchy does hurt men, though. By enforcing gender roles and devaluing the set of attributes it deems "feminine" (e.g. open emotional expression, nurturing, sensitivity, certain aesthetic appreciations, etc.), it circumscribes those behaviors in men. That makes it very difficult for males to express and embrace these parts of themselves, and because there's always a little yin in every yang, all men have those.

That's why it's now generally OK for girls to be tomboys (as long as they aren't too butch), but boys still get excoriated for "girly" things: The females are imitating the "superior" role, the males the "inferior". So even though girls seem on the surface to be advantaged by this system, it's still rooted in devaluing the feminine.
2014-07-09 10:06:34 PM  
3 votes:
This thread eerily reminds me of mass shooting threads where some people come in defending their guns and acting like the real victims.
2014-07-09 05:43:57 PM  
3 votes:
Wow. Reading these comments make me incredibly angry. Most of them are about false accusations and women controlling themselves and a few people who actually understand the problem (a few). Rape is not about sex. It is about domination, control, and violence. The fact that so few people on here understand what rape is justifies how much we need to fix this issue. I went through it in college. It was awful and I ended up dropping out. The police and campus nurse were exacerbated because they said there was nothing I could do and basically treated me like I was making it up (because I was too afraid and embarrassed to get prompt medical attention and only went when I wasn't healing). My friends who found out didn't believe me and still stayed friends with my rapist, taking "his side." And trust me, this was not something I wanted people to find out because of the slut shaming that happens. It was humiliating and awful. It was painful and embarrassing. It was a social nightmare and felt like I was in a twilight zone. Worst of all is my loss of confidence and control over how I though and who I was as a person. If that hadn't happened, who knows, maybe I would have finished my goal of becoming an aeronautical engineer (a career in which women are poorly represented).
2014-07-09 05:27:50 PM  
3 votes:
Elliot8654:

Why is it everyone is always totally one sided?
If a woman wants equality, fine. We are all equally responsible for our actions.


1) People are one-sided for a few reasons.  One - They are trolling.  Two - They are sincerely holding an untenable and inflexible point of view because somehow facts may threaten the bubbled of cognitive dissonance that they live in like a big snuggle baby blanket.  Three - They are lawyers at heart and are simply taking an opposite point of view to exercise mentally (frustrating for people who can't tell...resembles trolling).

2) Women despite protestations to the contrary do not want equality.  Equality would mean equal responsibilities socially as well as equality in rights.  equality for women would upset the apple cart big time in many ways legally.  From divorce court to criminal court...from selective service (in the USA) to voluntary military service things would change.

Right now if you are a women in the USA you are exempt from the selective service (compulsory military service if Congress ever reactivates the draft).  In the military we have reduced physical requirements in many areas to allow women to compete with men.  Men if women are not aware are even at the same weight and height usually considerably stronger with all else being equal.  Men just have more muscle mass oh and that testosterone thing.

That isn't to say there aren't roles for each to play...there are.  And there is room for some *some* crossover.  But largely women desire all the rights with either reduced or modified responsibility.  And men?  Well we're big evil stupid rape machines so we owe them for centuries of oppression.

But I have yet to speak with a woman that truly wants equality.
2014-07-09 05:13:03 PM  
3 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: Oh, and as for my "douchiness", is that why I am cooking steak, pasta, and vegetables for my fiancee?

Was she homeschooled?

Elliot8654: How about instead of making me "fix my douche attitude" you encourage women as well as men to be responsible for themselves.

I did. In my very Boobies. You notice that no woman objected to my advice but the MRAs jumped all over it? That's telling. It means it's not just about women, it's a bigger complex of resisting anything might be tell them how to behave or live, which is probably why MRAs are almost always Libertarians/Objectivists.

For that is truly the heart of the whole MRA ethos: The strident individualist desire to not be controlled by ANY authority, period. They have a fierce resistance toward any group that tries to tell them how to live, how to behave, how to act, how to treat others or even how to function in society. So it all comes from the same core principle: They hate government because it legislates society, they hate religion because it enforces morality, and they also hate minority groups (or any group that's not them: white privileged males) for forcing them to obey some arcane set of social behaviors that they did not sign up for. This is where MRA comes in, which is just a political rally removed from nationalism and a burning cross removed from racism. They don't like other people telling them how they should treat others, especially religions, minorities and women. And most of them hate altruism.

There are various flavors of staunch right-wing individualism, from the mild social libertarians to the ultra-schizophrenic Sovereign Citizens (a group that denies the existence of any social institutions entirely) but most of them fall within the hard Libertarian/Objectivist camp - mostly college-aged males who just read Ayn Rand and realized that society has no right to tell them they aren't allowed to be self-righteous assholes (without consequence, of course). They also tend to be Ron Paul fol ...



1) No, she went to public high school and has a masters degree.
2) Congrats, you summed up just about none of me. Socially very liberal, fiscally  moderate, primarily egalitarian and in favor of equality.

If you want to know what I am against, please see the following:
https://www.facebook.com/INeedRadicalFeminismBecause
https://www.facebook.com/mens.rights.56?fref=ts

It's not about one group being better, or worse, or mistreating.
It's about everyone having equal treatment.
Drinking doesn't excuse you from your responsibility.
But someone else being drunk doesn't mean you can just sleep with them if you want.

Don't put the pressure on only one gender to be responsible for consent, male or female.
2014-07-09 04:14:55 PM  
3 votes:

JackieRabbit: I said nothing of the sort. I said having consensual sex while drunk is not rape. To suggest that just because one is drunk one cannot grant consent is absurd. Using that logic, if one is drunk and asks for a ride home, one can later claim to have been kidnapped.


Altered states are a gray area.
If there's already a relationship between the two people, and if this problem matters to them, they often will have talked about their boundaries.

If there's not... how impaired is the other person? If they're to the point where they have marked difficulty speaking clearly or walking straight, the judgment center of their brain is proper farked (and their memory may not be "recording"). They are walking robots, of a sort. That's generally the level of drunk that people mean when they talk about drunk consent, not "tipsy and merry and bolder than usual".

Being fooled around with while you're stumbling blackout drunk is not a good experience, at all. If it's not rape (and there are good arguments that it is), it's really farking creepy. And yeah, that's regardless of the perpetrator's gender.
2014-07-09 03:49:55 PM  
3 votes:

worlddan: ikanreed: JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.

I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?


Exempt from financial deals because you were drunk?

I need to sue to get back every bar tab I ever paid!!!
2014-07-09 03:49:51 PM  
3 votes:

Corvus: JackieRabbit: I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Yeah what is with that. Women all of a sudden now think that when they are completely drunk or passed out and a guy takes advantage of her, have sex with him it's rape!

Can you believe it!

/You're an idiot.


That's not what I am talking about. Yeah, farking a passed out woman is rape. No one in their right mind is going to deny this. However, one school I recently read about has a plan to put a new regulation in place. If two people have consensual sex, but the woman has been drinking - not drunk and passed out - just drinking, the man is guilty of rape. The woman can argue that she consented all she wants, but it makes no difference. This is just not right.

Ant: Define rape


I think this is the problem. We keep redefining what it means for someone to be raped. To me, forceable sexual contact without consent is most assuredly rape. Drugging someone so that they cannot say no or repel the advance is rape. Coercing someone who does not have the mental capacity to consent is also rape. Getting a bit too drunk at a frat party and having sex with a guy you would not normally have sex with and then having "buyer's remorse" is not rape. It's stupid, but it isn't rape.

When we denigrate what rape is, we do a great disservice to those people who actually are raped.
2014-07-09 03:39:57 PM  
3 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: -hyped false reports.

An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com


How, about we accept that the justice system already takes the idea of false rape accusations too seriously, by a measurable and objective margin?

I get the MRAs like being oppressed, but every time they open their mouths about it, they're wrong.  You get to be wrong today.

But, still, we're listening for your non-misogynistic-and-pro-rape solution to this "problem" that's so common.
2014-07-09 03:36:01 PM  
3 votes:

JackieRabbit: I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?


Yeah what is with that. Women all of a sudden now think that when they are completely drunk or passed out and a guy takes advantage of her, have sex with him it's rape!

Can you believe it!

/You're an idiot.
2014-07-09 03:33:36 PM  
3 votes:

JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?


I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after. And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.
Ant
2014-07-09 03:25:11 PM  
3 votes:

JackieRabbit: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates?


* We are using a definition of rape other than the one used by Republican legislators
* Women are less afraid of reporting rape
2014-07-09 03:17:22 PM  
3 votes:

monoski: Really $150k a year salary is called profiteering???


Well, that was one way to out yourself as part of the 1%. Nice. job.
2014-07-09 03:07:16 PM  
3 votes:
troll headline is trolly

mra Boobieser is mra

nothing to see here
2014-07-09 02:52:41 PM  
3 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]


I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.
2014-07-09 10:16:33 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: tlars699:Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with sexual urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered.


Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with hunger urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered not to drive to White Castle.

I think your logic just excused drunk driving on a "boys will be boys" defense.
2014-07-09 07:46:06 PM  
2 votes:

OgreMagi: tlars699: I do agree that it seems a mite ridiculous to have the guy as the only responsible party in that situation.
But the guy can always go sleep it off on the couch, just as the drunk driver can always pass of his keys.

It's not a mite ridiculous.  It's a big farking gross miscarriage of injustice.  Ladies, if you demand equal rights, you must accept equal responsibility.

As for a drunk guy telling a naked drunk girl to stop.  In what universe is that going to happen?


In any sensible one, where they say "But Baby, I want to get to know you first- you know, talk until the sun rises" instead, because the unsaid bits are (because I can smell the EverClear on your breath and please just get mad and leave if you feel rejected, because I don't want to have to babysit tonight.)

Also, I would say that the more drunk person has the least responsibility.
As women have a harder time processing the same volume of alcohol as men, that would mean on average women would be the persons being taken advantage of in a drunken state.
However, "taking advantage" of either party can be avoided in general if women are told: You get drunk, you go home to Your House, and do NOT have sex or plan to while inebriated.
And if men are told: You SHOULD say NO to the drunk girl flinging her panties at you. If her panties stay off while sober, have at it, but until she's sober, NO!!!!! If she keeps wheedling you about it, she is trying to coerce you, and you should have her leave. You have the right to say NO.

Making the guy responsible in that situation might encourage the whole idea of men having consent options, as well.
As a temporary measure until our culture catches up to this idea, this rule? Meh. I'm having a hard time having a problem with it.
If the girl wants to get laid that badly, she can do it sober.
Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.
2014-07-09 07:12:03 PM  
2 votes:

gopher321: I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


perhaps it outweighs the "media-hyped" reports, but when a good 1/3 of actual reports turn out to be false ones, it hurts everyone. womens activists often defend any woman making a claim despite all facts in evidence, and even object to any legal punishment from those caught red-handed making false claims, but all that does is make the problem worse and degrade trust in the claims of real victims coming forward.
i used to date a woman that worked in a victims support center, and like DUI's, some people with rape claims could not stop at just one. some women claimed 8 or 9 different rapes from 8 or 9 different people (usually ex-boyfriends an ex-bosses) all in the course of a couple of years she was there. some women actually actively solicited help from the support staff for helpful details to add to make a claim more believable, especially as custody fight tools.
some of the support staff were repulsed by this behaviour, but even then most supported and or helped them unquestioningly anyway, as most womens advocates have it as a bedrock tenet of faith that if anyone publicly questions any rape claim, by any woman, anywhere, ever, then the law will simply stop protecting all women, and no one will ever come forward ever again with a rape claim for fear of being doubted.
/don't even ask what they think of jail time for proven vindictive false reports, it usually degenerates into something about it being a patriarchal tool to silence women so that men can rape with impunity.
2014-07-09 06:13:27 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: If 90% of the time it's men perpetrating a crime, then 90% of the people arrested and imprisoned should be men. I fully agree.
But to claim that it can't happen because if guys get drunk they cant get hard, so they can't rape is asinine.
Which was the implied claim of a previous post by someone else.


Uh, that's wasn't implied by the claim at ALL.  Not even close.  Here's the trail:

Khellendros: Only rarely. Unless she grabs him and forces him in, he's the one who took the action. While I'm not going to claim this doesn't happen, I would assert it is the extreme minority of cases.


Inchoate: If the guy's drunk, whiskey-dick usually inhibits penetrative rape, but there are definitely cases of women taking advantage of drunk dudes. Not common, but happens.


To which you responded:

Elliot8654: Because getting sex through lying, manipulation, peer pressure, drug use, or a thousand other means only happens to one gender, too.


Never was there an implication in the thread you replied to that men CAN'T raped, only that it wasn't common, and often difficult in drunken situations.  You then went on a third rail about coercion and other forms of possible rape, attempting to say it happens to both genders.

Basically, you had a snap reaction to something that wasn't said, and are full of shiat.  Your beliefs and need to side-step the problems and create false equivalency is so blatant you can't seem to step back fast enough.  And now you're trying to claim what was never said - or even implied - was what set you off.  When it was INTENTIONALLY stated by both of us that it happens, but was a very small percentage of the cases.
2014-07-09 06:07:26 PM  
2 votes:

brimed03: Look, either the world has inexplicably gotten so very much worse in a mere 50 years, or we're finally talking about a problem that has always existed. Which seems more likely to you?


Hell, it's only been around 20 years that spousal rape has been illegal in every state.
2014-07-09 05:35:18 PM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Don't ever cite the bible as fact


You don't think those things were written in the Bible? And that people didn't follow them and apply them in their daily lives, and some religious sects still do today? You don't think that happens? .....how deliberately obtuse are you?

Because People in power are Stupid: You don't speak for all women for the past 10,000 years -you don't know all of their stories but your brief single sentence that sums up ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY doesn't do them justice. Again, you don't speak for them.


Of course not -- no one can speak for women because their stories were not written. Because they were kept illiterate, ignorant, and homebound by men. And we know this because this is what men told us they did with women, all throughout history, in their documents.

Because People in power are Stupid: If you want to understand why you are wrong about human culture.


I take it you are neither an anthropologist, economist, sociologist or demographer, and you quite simply do not have the knowledge or the education to even attempt to assert that you know what you are talking about.

Because People in power are Stupid: There are ZERO female gorillas


We're not gorillas.

And the fact that human cultures were at one time egalitarian (before the Age of Agriculture) suggests that our gender roles are fairly more nuanced and complicated than other sapien species, and that patriarchy is a function of social organization and not an endemic evolutionary trait of the species.
2014-07-09 05:34:32 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: JesusJuice: ikanreed: JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.

If drunk sex is rape, I am an unrepentant serial rapist.

Yeah, I got drunk and masturbated once. I mean, i said no to myself, but i was hard, so i must have really wanted it.
Did I rape myself?


Were you incapacitated? Y'know, like the statutes require, rather than merely "buzzed", as you and the other rape apologists like to pretend?
2014-07-09 05:15:08 PM  
2 votes:
God farking dammit when will the current fashion for 'rape is stuff women make up and a liberal industry derp derp' end? It makes news too depressing to even read sometimes.
2014-07-09 05:01:25 PM  
2 votes:
I think we need to gender split universities. In one you put all the males and females, in the other you put all the people who are offended to be asked which they are.

Once all those tumblrites are skimmed off, people can get back to being educated without fear of being accused of shiat by  nutbars.
2014-07-09 05:00:28 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: Oh, and as for my "douchiness", is that why I am cooking steak, pasta, and vegetables for my fiancee?


Was she homeschooled?

Elliot8654: How about instead of making me "fix my douche attitude" you encourage women as well as men to be responsible for themselves.


I did. In my very Boobies. You notice that no woman objected to my advice but the MRAs jumped all over it? That's telling. It means it's not just about women, it's a bigger complex of resisting anything might be tell them how to behave or live, which is probably why MRAs are almost always Libertarians/Objectivists.

For that is truly the heart of the whole MRA ethos: The strident individualist desire to not be controlled by ANY authority, period. They have a fierce resistance toward any group that tries to tell them how to live, how to behave, how to act, how to treat others or even how to function in society. So it all comes from the same core principle: They hate government because it legislates society, they hate religion because it enforces morality, and they also hate minority groups (or any group that's not them: white privileged males) for forcing them to obey some arcane set of social behaviors that they did not sign up for. This is where MRA comes in, which is just a political rally removed from nationalism and a burning cross removed from racism. They don't like other people telling them how they should treat others, especially religions, minorities and women. And most of them hate altruism.

There are various flavors of staunch right-wing individualism, from the mild social libertarians to the ultra-schizophrenic Sovereign Citizens (a group that denies the existence of any social institutions entirely) but most of them fall within the hard Libertarian/Objectivist camp - mostly college-aged males who just read Ayn Rand and realized that society has no right to tell them they aren't allowed to be self-righteous assholes (without consequence, of course). They also tend to be Ron Paul followers.

I would even go so far as to say that many of them are social autistics or at the very least have Aspergers. They don't function well in groups and they don't see the point or purpose in socializing, and this deficiency is what compels them to put up a fierce front when encountered, because when you have an ego as big as they do, it's hard to back down from anything. So you get the Hegelian backlash to feminism in the MRA. They don't like being forced. If you push them, they'll push back no matter what you are: A social, political, religious or racial group.
2014-07-09 04:51:23 PM  
2 votes:

Ant: Define rape


A plant whose seeds can be used to produce Canola oil.
2014-07-09 04:49:33 PM  
2 votes:

This text is now purple: 1. Didn't happen?
2. Knowingly didn't happen?
3. Provably didn't happen?


Let's be clear
#3 is the <1% category.

#1+#2+#3+those where there's reason to be suspect at all is 4-6%

Which is in keeping with general false crime reports.
2014-07-09 04:48:28 PM  
2 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: I would offer to change your mind

You shouldn't be trying to change my mind. You should be trying to change your own douchiness toward women.

Get your priorities straight. Watch some Making Love videos.


No thanks, because my worth as a person is tied to way more than my ability to sexually please someone.

Oh, and as for my "douchiness", is that why I am cooking steak, pasta, and vegetables for my fiancee? Because I'm a douchenozzle who doesn't respect her?

No. I just expect the same of men and women. Be smart. Take responsibility for your actions. Don't expect others to coddle you and say "please sign here and blow in this breathalhzer to indicate you are capable and consenting to this activity".

How about instead of making me "fix my douche attitude" you encourage women as well as men to be responsible for themselves.
2014-07-09 04:23:36 PM  
2 votes:

Mikey1969: Some people making false claims doesn't let real offenders off of the hook, sorry.


You see mikey this is why my notes on you are 100% correct. Nowhere do I claim to support "real offenders" -only you and the white knight fembot hordes seem to be making this claim.

Anyone pointing out that it is financially lucrative for someone to falsely accuse someone else of rape is akin to 'letting rapists go free' is a false equivalence.

For example Wanetta Gibson made $750,000 after accusing Brian Banks of rape. The only reason she got caught is because she felt remorse.I submit that most women who do this do not feel remorse.
2014-07-09 04:10:05 PM  
2 votes:

worlddan: The key word in that sentence is "could". It only speaks to ability, not to certainty. In fact, getting a contract annulled for any such reasons is exceptionally rare. Now back to my orginal question: where are your court citations? See, court citations are not about what is hypothetically possible but about what actually happened. Come back to me in a year or two after you've researched the issue on Lexis with real cases where real contracts were voided because the person was really drunk when they signed them. Good Luck.


I reject your oddly specific demand as unnecessary.  Legal summaries are all that's necessary for backing up a reasonable claim.

It reflects a denialist position, rather than an actual position.  You assert an arbitrary threshold for evidence in a conversational debate, and supply no evidence of any sort to back your own position.  It reflects a laziness and inevitable intransigence if your arbitrary level were met.  Sorry, you're complete shiat.


Elliot8654: Both drunk and made a bad decision. Can I charge her with rape too?


If you felt taken advantage of, yes.   Christ, this isn't actually hard.  If you had taken advantage of her state the fact that you were drunk wouldn't have been an excuse, and vice versa is also true.

You're trying to builda fictional fantasy where women are constantly out to get you.
2014-07-09 04:03:26 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: And, in the event someone wants to say they don't, here's AVfM's Paul Elam in his own words:

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks ... paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the "victims" of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won't change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING biatch - PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.


This is no different from the interviews I've read with convicted serial rapists.  They frame things exactly the same way.
2014-07-09 03:54:16 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?


No, she'll accuse you of being an awful douchebag who's bad in bed (which you probably are as evidenced by your resistance), and that may be worse.

If you want to get to homeplate you have to round the bases. And to do that, you have to learn how to hit the damn ball.

Practice on a peach.
2014-07-09 03:48:32 PM  
2 votes:

Mikey1969: so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases


the problem was not the rape.  the problem was that your mom had a farking psycho for a boyfriend.
2014-07-09 03:45:12 PM  
2 votes:

Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?


Because it is a principle of our justice system that it is better that a guilty person go free than an innocent person be imprisoned.
2014-07-09 03:44:48 PM  
2 votes:

Khellendros: I don't think it's happening more, it's just finally being treated as unacceptable behavior and a brighter light is being put on it.


Why not both?
2014-07-09 03:35:14 PM  
2 votes:

Khellendros: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I don't think it's happening more, it's just finally being treated as unacceptable behavior and a brighter light is being put on it.

"Kids get drunk, kids have sex, better deal with consequences, ladies" is an antiquated way of looking at it.  Today, it's "whatever you did to get there, consent was never given, better deal with the consequences, gentlemen".


I can tell you with no reservation whatsoever that rape was NEVER tolerated when I attended college a quarter-centry ago. So don't give me the "it isn't tolerated now the way it once was." Because this is a myth; it never happened.
Ant
2014-07-09 03:31:39 PM  
2 votes:

fireclown: Ant: * We are using a definition of rape other than the one used by Republican legislators

[www.thelookingspoon.com image 425x499]
And a few others.


I was going to include her in there too. fark you, Whoopie. Drugging a 13 year old girl and farking her up the ass in your hot tub is still rape, even if you do happen to be a Hollywood director.
2014-07-09 03:25:36 PM  
2 votes:

mdeesnuts: Sexual 'assault' laws need a major revamping. I know a guy that spent 5 years in prison because he broke up with a girl and her Daddykins filed charges even though he knew they'd been farking under his roof for 2 years and approved - until the break up.

BONUS: They were the same age, but under 18.

/ruined the poor guy's life
//he's now officially a sexual predator


Yes it does... Some of the things you can end up getting put on the list for are ridiculous. Not only that, but a lot of the lists don't have details, so you can't even make an informed judgement.

As for the statutory rape thing, the states that have clauses that don't make it SR if the guy is within 3 years of the girl's age and they're both over 14 or 15(Don't remember these exact details, but you get the gist of it) have a much more sane setup. It also leads to a ridiculous stigma. People call a guy a "pedophile" if the girl is under 18, but that's where they stop thinking. She could be 17 years, 365.24 days old, and since she's not 18, it's "sick" behavior, but if they girl is 18 years and one second, it's suddenly "OK"... I mean, it's not like the "Sexually mature" fairy arrives on the eve of your 18th birthday.

So yeah, I agree that there are plenty of cases where people who don't belong on the registries get there...
2014-07-09 03:19:17 PM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]


Do you do this in every farking thread about women?
jvl
2014-07-09 03:18:56 PM  
2 votes:

JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?


The problem is the Administration decided it would be swell to write all-new regulations as to what constitutes rape and force the new rules on colleges.

If the current definition of rape is insufficient, the Admin should write some new farking laws and get them passed. A partial fix through regulation is just all kinds of stupid.
2014-07-09 03:16:06 PM  
2 votes:
One thread before a false equivalency shiathead goes off on false accusations.

I think anyone complaining about false accusations is making false accusations of false accusations and should go to jail until they can prove otherwise.
2014-07-09 03:15:04 PM  
2 votes:
I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?
2014-07-09 03:11:35 PM  
2 votes:
Sexual 'assault' laws need a major revamping. I know a guy that spent 5 years in prison because he broke up with a girl and her Daddykins filed charges even though he knew they'd been farking under his roof for 2 years and approved - until the break up.

BONUS: They were the same age, but under 18.

/ruined the poor guy's life
//he's now officially a sexual predator
2014-07-09 02:02:47 PM  
2 votes:
Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-07-10 04:27:59 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: There is overwhelming demonstrable evidence that it does, and has for the past 10,000 years.


3.bp.blogspot.com
2014-07-10 02:55:49 PM  
1 votes:

sinisterben: This is an assertion not data


Actually, it's a question, because my argument is so obvious and so factual that I'm actually shocked that you would request data on it. Are you seriously that dense? Do you really need proof that men have created and controlled every hierarchical institution for the past 10,000 years? You actually need data on that (even when I have already sufficiently done so earlier in the thread)? I think a more interesting answer is why you DON'T think there is a patriarchy.

sinisterben: also I was unaware we were living in all of history. I try to focus policies around what is currently happening. YMMV.


We are, and always will be, living all of history. We are the effects of innumerable causes, and studying those causes is how we come to a better understanding. To not acknowledge this makes you not only obstinately blind, but egregiously stupid. You cannot possibly focus on what is currently happening without analyzing where it came from and how it came to be.
2014-07-10 01:55:42 PM  
1 votes:

sinisterben: Are we seriously saying the only way for this patriarchy to end is to put women in charge?


You can't end patriarchy and for civilization's sake you probably shouldn't.

Egalitarian systems existed pre-Agriculture so patriarchy is a function of social organization, not evolution. Unfortunately, there is no way to restore those systems without wiping out all hierarchies altogether and I wouldn't recommend it anyway. The next best idea is keep the patriarchal institutions but give women special rights and status and stop worrying about it. Failing that, a 50/50 split in leadership is preferable.

As it is right now, complaining that women have it better than men is like white people complaining that there's no NAACP for caucasions. Get over yourself.
2014-07-10 09:42:45 AM  
1 votes:

fiddlehead: sinisterben: Ishkur: sinisterben: Why? Last I checked we were discussing patriarchy, which again you assert followed by a lot of hand waving and name calling. Then we even have to discount democracy of all things? Yep, I'm adorable.

Because you want to dispute the existence of patriarchy. I pointed out where it exists, and you decided to ignore everything but politics. Politics wasn't my argument.

Wow, you know, I have the ability fo define monarchy, or oligarghy, or theocracy, and I can even define ways to falsify those definitions. But you, you get to assert a fact, and I have to just accept it. Does England have a queen? Are they a matriarchy in your mind? Of course not, because, patriarchy.

Don't be daft.
Who has more political power in the UK, the queen or the prime minister?
What is the ratio of male to female prime ministers?
What is the ratio of men to women in the UK Parliament?


I'm sorry. I guess we need to elect more stupid women to put next to stupid men to make other stupid women happy that they are represented by stupid people of both genders.

If you think the big problem with politics is "not enough women", you have a lot to learn.
2014-07-10 09:38:48 AM  
1 votes:

sinisterben: Ishkur: sinisterben: Why? Last I checked we were discussing patriarchy, which again you assert followed by a lot of hand waving and name calling. Then we even have to discount democracy of all things? Yep, I'm adorable.

Because you want to dispute the existence of patriarchy. I pointed out where it exists, and you decided to ignore everything but politics. Politics wasn't my argument.

Wow, you know, I have the ability fo define monarchy, or oligarghy, or theocracy, and I can even define ways to falsify those definitions. But you, you get to assert a fact, and I have to just accept it. Does England have a queen? Are they a matriarchy in your mind? Of course not, because, patriarchy.


Don't be daft.
Who has more political power in the UK, the queen or the prime minister?
What is the ratio of male to female prime ministers?
What is the ratio of men to women in the UK Parliament?
2014-07-10 12:27:13 AM  
1 votes:
How about they just start giving out chastity belts at freshman orientation, except instead of keys, the belts are equipped with a breathalyzer. Kind of like the ones they can put in cars, but both parties must blow into it and register less than a .08 (or whatever the limit is) to unlock.

As far as the consent thing goes, that's a little hairier. I mean, I didn't realize until this thread that if someone says "yes" in a certain way it actually means no, so clearly I'm a rape apologist. There should be clear, unambiguous conversation - or better yet, a document that is available every time sexual activity becomes a possibility. Maybe something like when you sign a lease, except instead of initialing under the line about pets and after the paragraph about the security deposit, you have a list of sexual activities and a definite affirmative before you can proceed. Maybe they could make an app, and after every question, there's a fingerprint scan. "May I kiss you?" *scan* "May I remove your underwear and/or brassiere? (check all that apply)" "May I use my tongue to stimulate your anal sphincter?"

Or maybe just treat every sexual encounter like you're a stylist and someone's asking you to cut off 4 feet of hair. "Are you sure that's what you want? Are you positive? Let me bring my coworker over here, tell him this is what you really want. No, I trust your decision, it's just sometimes people think they want something, but when they see themselves in the mirror, it didn't turn out quite how they thought it would, and then I get yelled at."

I mean, obviously this is over the top, but I think it's a lot to expect teenagers and young adults to have meaningful, frank conversations about their sexual desires when most of them A) haven't even had proper sexual education other than "don't touch or Jesus will cry" and B) are tasting relative freedom for the first time. And I do get a little snarky about the rape issue because while I think it's shiatty and sad, it's hard to really empathize because it's something I'll never have to worry about.

Theaetetus: I think your logic just excused drunk driving on a "boys will be boys" defense.


Heh. The majority of this thread has already excused drunk driving on the basis that consuming alcohol makes you not responsible for your actions.
2014-07-09 11:21:52 PM  
1 votes:

Brostorm: Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!


This is terrifying. Are you actually insane? Did you actually type this?

Does anyone actually agree with this monster?


Well - it is the realist view.

Just accept that any interaction you have as a male with a female (hookup, date, live with, marry, procreate with) is done under the condition that they hold a loaded gun against your head and can pull the trigger at any time if you fail to keep them sufficiently amused.

Once you realize that is the underlying legal framework that is been carefully crafted, then everything else falls into place.
2014-07-09 10:46:04 PM  
1 votes:

gopher321: I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


So long as we refuse to admit false rape is a real issue there's no way we will know if this is true or not.  It probably is but that's by no means certain.

Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com


I don't get the impression they take quite that position.  However, I have seen multiple people express an opinion close to it:

1)  False rape doesn't matter so long as real rape is more frequent than false rape.  They don't accept the basic premise of our legal system that's better for the guilty to walk than the innocent to go to jail.

2)  A woman who isn't crazy doesn't lie about it.  Thus her accusation is enough to convict barring an ironclad alibi.

Also, anyone who argues against this position must be a misogynist.

Corvus: So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?


Because our legal system is based on a presumption of innocence.   That's what this garbage is about--avoiding the pesky innocent until proven guilty bit.

Mikey1969: Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.


The problem cases are he-said/she-said.  That's not what you are describing.

hardinparamedic: As someone who has been falsely accused of rape and blackmailed over the situation in the past when he was 19, he's full of shiat. False rape accusations do occur - however, they are the rare exception rather than the rule of reporting. In addition, while it is a destructive way to try to ruin someone's life, it is exceptionally rare, with questionable reporting encompassing around 4.6 to 6% of all reported rapes, and false reporting definitively identified in <1% of rape reports.


The lowest reasonable number I have seen is 8%--and I think that number must be low because by it's nature it would not count any case where the cops convinced her not to file a false report.

Khellendros: Using your above list:

1) Children can't be consenting parties. Duh. Nearly 100% of cases are males as the perpetrator.
2) Was there a threat involved? If so, one party wasn't freely consenting. Typically male pepetrator, but some females as well.
3) Define "pressure". Too vague to evaluate.
4) "Expectations" are not rape. Sex with a non-consenting person is rape. The example cites males as the perpetrator.
5) Non consenting party, again. Duh. The example itself cites males as the perpetrator.
6) Not medically necessary? Duh again.


#2 and #3 are really two points on a range, not separate items.  And it depends on the nature of the threat whether it's rape or not.  "If you don't have sex with me I'm leaving" is not rape even if it's a pretty serious threat to her (she has no job or money.)

Theaetetus: From the very first line on that page: "Our definition of rape is broader than most conventional or legal definitions."


Exactly.  That's where the high number of rapes come from.

lollipops: The police and campus nurse were exacerbated because they said there was nothing I could do and basically treated me like I was making it up (because I was too afraid and embarrassed to get prompt medical attention and only went when I wasn't healing).


There is nothing they could do.  If you want to get the guy convicted you need to report it promptly.

Ivan the Tolerable: there is a difference between cases that actually went to court of law, and all the claims that came through their center for help. they obviously got a whole lot of claims that never went anywhere, or that the police would not touch with a ten-foot pole. often times calls were from women requesting the centers help to force the police to act on a claim 'the police were ignoring', and when they checked it was almost invariably that the police had actually investigated and found it didn't have the credibility to pass the sniff test.
i would hope that the false claims actually making it to criminal charges would be winnowed down to single-digit numbers, but the claims made in anger, either for attention, to throw blame for infidelity elsewhere, or whatever, are very much higher.


Yeah, when these threads come along there's usually somebody like you that either was in the trenches or was close with someone who did--I hear the same basic pattern repeatedly.  The false claim rate is high but most get promptly weeded out by the police.

Unfortunately, the schools aren't doing that weeding.
2014-07-09 10:45:18 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!


This is terrifying. Are you actually insane? Did you actually type this?

Does anyone actually agree with this monster?
2014-07-09 10:09:08 PM  
1 votes:

zzrhardy: Well, we will be on a patriarchy for a while yet then.


Oh we will, but not because of feminism. Cultural shifts and attitudes take generations to go through various Hegelian dialectics (MRA is the antithesis to the feminism thesis -- about time it showed up), and from experience and observation, it's never the old generations that are converted but rather the new generations are brought up with something different and accept it as normal while the old ones die off. We're seeing the same thing with the Tea Party: old people resisting change while dying off.

We'll be long dead before true gender or racial equality is reached.
2014-07-09 10:01:15 PM  
1 votes:

sinisterben: Last I checked, voters pick who represents us


You really think voting determines the system of rule? ...oh, you're just adorable.

Okay, now make excuses for the social, religious, commercial and martial institutions as well.
2014-07-09 09:48:59 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Ishkur: I did. In my very Boobies. You notice that no woman objected to my advice but the MRAs jumped all over it? That's telling. It means it's not just about women, it's a bigger complex of resisting anything might be tell them how to behave or live, which is probably why MRAs are almost always Libertarians/Objectivists.

1) You don't have boobies, they're called moobies on a guy.
2) There are very few women on Fark and guys outnumber women like 10 to 1. (Seriously go to Digichick to talk to women)lol
3) That's called a Strawman argument and not a very good one. Gender issues are not  exclusive to any one political group.


Actually there are a lot of women on Fark. Most of us don't have female identifiers in our names. Same reason I don't buy pink guns.
2014-07-09 08:25:13 PM  
1 votes:

poot_rootbeer: Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit


"Stop defending yourself!  Stop defending yourself!"
2014-07-09 08:24:57 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: And the fact that human cultures were at one time egalitarian (before the Age of Agriculture) suggests that our gender roles are fairly more nuanced and complicated than other sapien species, and that patriarchy is a function of social organization and not an endemic evolutionary trait of the species.


Patriarchy doesn't exist. It's a fairly good description of some ancient civilizations but a poor description of a modern democracy.

Ishkur: I take it you are neither an anthropologist, economist, sociologist or demographer, and you quite simply do not have the knowledge or the education to even attempt to assert that you know what you are talking about.


That is an  ad hominem fallacy. Whether I have had or had not done graduate level work in Culture and Evolution is not relevant because the level of comprehension that is required is minute. I believe that you can even understand it if you are not too busy obfuscating and creating strawmen.

Ishkur: Theaetetus: I think Ishkur is saying that if a man is bad at sex,


You guys kinda have the same writing style. Are you sure you aren't the same person?
2014-07-09 07:24:58 PM  
1 votes:

Ivan the Tolerable: gopher321: I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.

perhaps it outweighs the "media-hyped" reports, but when a good 1/3 of actual reports turn out to be false ones, it hurts everyone. womens activists often defend any woman making a claim despite all facts in evidence, and even object to any legal punishment from those caught red-handed making false claims, but all that does is make the problem worse and degrade trust in the claims of real victims coming forward.
i used to date a woman that worked in a victims support center, and like DUI's, some people with rape claims could not stop at just one. some women claimed 8 or 9 different rapes from 8 or 9 different people (usually ex-boyfriends an ex-bosses) all in the course of a couple of years she was there. some women actually actively solicited help from the support staff for helpful details to add to make a claim more believable, especially as custody fight tools.
some of the support staff were repulsed by this behaviour, but even then most supported and or helped them unquestioningly anyway, as most womens advocates have it as a bedrock tenet of faith that if anyone publicly questions any rape claim, by any woman, anywhere, ever, then the law will simply stop protecting all women, and no one will ever come forward ever again with a rape claim for fear of being doubted.
/don't even ask what they think of jail time for proven vindictive false reports, it usually degenerates into something about it being a patriarchal tool to silence women so that men can rape with impunity.


This is demonstrably false as seen in this thread, as provided by Hardinparamedic's quotes. It's more like 4-6% of claims made that are false, per any other report-able crime.

It's very concerning that your gf and all the victim help center people could prove that there were women making false claims, and letting it go through without informing some defense lawyers on where to get some proof at the very least; I mean seriously, 8-9 reports within 8-9 years? and there's a pattern to the lady's reports? I'm surprised that the defense lawyer wouldn't immediately pull up her record for reporting and use that to defend his client.

There is also the possibility that a victim keeps putting herself through the being raped cycle, because she's not getting the counseling needed to spot a pattern and prevent it.
If all of your boyfriends are abusive rapists, then maybe you need to get some therapy to figure out how you seem to be finding all of the abusive rapists in the area for boyfriends.

Tell me MRA wingjobs in the thread: Are there support groups for abusive rapists to get together and talk about their strategies?
I know the RadFems like to laugh online about how men get abused. It would seem only fair.
2014-07-09 07:16:32 PM  
1 votes:
The most important change in the sex assault regulations the Feds insist colleges implement is a switch from beyond reasonable doubt to preponderance of the evidence.  Universities are then using what can only be described as kangaroo courts to make very quick decisions, based on "she said/he said", on whether to kick the accused out of school.  Almost always the (male) student is kicked out of school.  This means one of two errors has been made.  Either he was innocent and was unjustly punished.  Or he was guilty and now a rapist has escaped punishment, and because rapists usually rape again, another woman will suffer.

The universities prefer this system because it protects their reputation.  For them, reputation is everything and nothing, not even justice, is allowed to tarnish it.  Universities should not be allowed to handle sexual assault accusations.  It should be entirely a police matter (no, not the farking campus police).  Universities should never be allowed to sweep their dirty laundry under the rug.
2014-07-09 06:57:54 PM  
1 votes:
Stupid submitter, it's Istanbul Sex Assault Regulations now
2014-07-09 06:49:47 PM  
1 votes:

Khellendros: Elliot8654: Because getting sex through lying, manipulation, peer pressure, drug use, or a thousand other means only happens to one gender, too.

I'm sorry, we were talking about rape.  You know, sex with at least one non-consenting party?  Not this bullshiat you're peddling.  Other than the drug use example, the rest is piles of false equivalency.


No, no, he's right.
Guy pressures girl to have sex, he's  that guy. You know the assault perpetrator. She doesn't really want to, but she can't get away.

Girl pressures guy to have sex, he keeps saying no, and then she gets pouty-faced, and sad, and the Guy doesn't really want to, but feels like he can't get away.

Or guy is a virgin and doesn't want to have sex and his girlfriend treats him like he's an idiot, and blackmails him that she'll tell all his friends, or make something up if he doesn't.

The problem is consent.
We don't apply a universal set of rules that are easy to learn, and live by, about what consent is and how it should be given.
Because of that there is not only communication issues about it, but people then try to redefine what the bad stuff actually is.
Men do not automatically consent as default.
Girls do not have to say "No" in order to get out of consent.
If there is no Yes, there is no sex.
Any party has been drinking?
Sober up before you have sex.
If it comes out YEssssssssssssssSSsss, it means No.

Talk with them until dawn(tipsy), sleep it off(stumbling), leave them alone (passed out), and above all else make sure they'll be okay as you leave them.
They do not owe you for being nice to them. If they decide "maybe not", then it wasn't meant to be.
Being nice is the first step; it's not the point of no return.

Also, if you think some girl is being manipulative and stupid and "using her pussy pass for a free night out": STOP BUYING HER DRINKS, AND SAVE YOUR MONEY.


I mean, it's not that hard to understand and follow, right?
2014-07-09 06:30:47 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Mikey1969: Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.

Did I move on to the bonus round?

Was your mother raped on campus and was the accused not thrown out of college?

No?

Then it's not germane to the discussion.


Fail.

You opened the discussion to the *general* topic of rape and rape allegations. You don't get to revert back to the specific when someone's point is too hard for you to handle.
2014-07-09 06:22:51 PM  
1 votes:

JesusJuice: Corvus: Ant: Define rape

To that idiot, getting a girl passed out on drinks then having sex with her is not rape.

Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.


Drunk people cannot legally give consent. The judge doesn't really care if you don't agree with that.

But the lay explanation: judgement and inhibition drop the more you drink. While we've been socially encouraged to think that this is a good thing ("have a drink, loosen up") it means you're in an altered state of mind; you aren't yourself, and therefore cannot make important decisions.

Most people would acknowledge that it would be wrong to get someone drunk and then have them sign a contract. Same thing with sex.
2014-07-09 06:19:42 PM  
1 votes:

Theaetetus: I think Ishkur is saying that if a man is bad at sex, then a terrible woman might accuse him of rape - not that he is a rapist, but that he'd be a target for a false accusation. No implication was implied that that's fine on her part.

It's a naive and relatively unhelpful suggestion, but there is a kernel of truth to it: namely, if you're good at sex, then you're also going to be communicative with your partner, which is going to significantly decrease the odds of getting hit with a false accusation. Since, y'know, they're talking to you.


Leave it to the attorney to read the fine print.

It's mostly snark, but based on something important that MRAs fail to understand:

A good relationship is about consensus and compromise. You give and take in equal quantities (and qualities), and understanding your partner's needs and acquiescing to them is what people in love do. And they do it because they want to do it, because they want to see their partner happy and because it's not a power struggle. While arguments may arise every now and then, you learn to pick your battles, let some things slide, and ultimately come out to a mutual understanding from it. You can't go through life like a petulant little child who always gets his way, and if you meet someone who demands that all the time, then they aren't worth it. This applies to men and women.
2014-07-09 06:09:48 PM  
1 votes:

JesusJuice: spiritplumber: gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.

I lost a semester of college because of a false rape accusation, actually. Not the end of the world, but still. There's also the whole "getting locked up and having no real idea why" part, it was a very scary five days.

Something similar happened to me. She hadn't gone to the police yet but seemed to be moving in that direction. Luckily I had a few things on her that she preferred be kept private and we were able to come to an understanding.


Summary: she was going to report you for something that wasn't, in your opinion, rape, and you blackmailed her into not doing it.

Listen, I know false accusations occur. So I'm not denying that there's a real chance that's what happened. Of course, I've also seen hundreds of men who didn't understand the legal definition of rape and wouldn't have considered action xyz to *be* rape-- even in the face of a lawyer telling them: the court calls this rape and would find you guilty on that basis. And I've seen guys who were certainly guilty retell the story while still denying they did anything wrong.

I've no idea what actually happened in your situation. I'm forming no opinion, making no judgement, attempting no guess. But I am recommending that you keep that story to yourself. Even online. There are too many variables for that to ever be a safe story for you to tell again.
2014-07-09 06:07:59 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: It doesn't have anything to do with leadership decisions. It has to do with taking the risk to become an elected person in the first place.


It's never been just about politics, but about all avenues in life everywhere. Every powerbase: Politics, laws, schools, corporations, family, etc...

But the "men take more risks" does not translate to "men take all the risks". Because as soon as they were empowered, females began filling commercial and political positions, which they had never done en masse in the past because they were forbidden to do so (a fact of history that you deny). So we know that females can obtain positions in power and frequently do so when the playing field is level. The next President may be one.
2014-07-09 06:06:32 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Ishkur: JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after. And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.

So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".



Yea, but that's being polite in general -- whether in a sexual context or any other context.  You can't force the other person to be decent, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't make the attempt on your end.  Golden Rule and all that.  Women should basically abide by the same (well, similar) list on their end.
2014-07-09 06:06:25 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: Don't wanna be raped? Don't walk around in skimpy clothes?

But that would be unreasonable.

Seriously, what is your objection to simply pleasing a woman so that she's actually satisfied with the encounter instead of full of regret? Is it too gross down there? You're not skilled enough with your tongue? You don't like her touching you? You can only get off like that redtube video you watched? What is it -- it's a fairly innocuous suggestion, and you're fighting me tooth and nail like it's some flagrant and grievous intrusion on your personal liberty.

Is it really that hard or are you just too selfish to give her any attention at all?



You do realize you're just burying yourself deeper right?
I have no problem pleasing a woman.
I have every problem with you saying that not pleasing a woman means men may get accused of rape.
You are taking the arguments that feminists are spending their entire day trying to stop, and instead using them to threaten men.

Do you have a problem with women not pleasing men?
As I recall if a girl didn't go down on a man, you said we shouldn't force her and it's her choice.
Why are you so one sided?
2014-07-09 06:05:52 PM  
1 votes:

Libelec: Are you saying that if a man is bad at sex, the man is a rapist? Or that it's fine that she publicly shames him for that?


I think Ishkur is saying that if a man is bad at sex, then a terrible woman might accuse him of rape - not that he is a rapist, but that he'd be a target for a false accusation. No implication was implied that that's fine on her part.

It's a naive and relatively unhelpful suggestion, but there is a kernel of truth to it: namely, if you're good at sex, then you're also going to be communicative with your partner, which is going to significantly decrease the odds of getting hit with a false accusation. Since, y'know, they're talking to you.
2014-07-09 06:04:24 PM  
1 votes:
From Ikanreed's link. "Legal website FindLaw emphasizes that being intoxicated is not typically a way to get out of a contract. There is an exception to this rule if the other person can prove you knew they were intoxicated and took advantage of them. For example, if you knew the supplier did not want to work with you and kept buying him drinks until he was drunk enough to sign, he might be able to get out of the contract."

Still sounds murky to me. However, for what it's worth, I can't even imagine trying to fark a woman who is passed out drunk or obviously unable to consent in any meaningful sense of the word. I mean, aside from being rape-rape, which is bad enough, I just don't see how it could be any fun. Give me a horny, willing girl any day.

\lucky to have just such a GF and she's a gem.
2014-07-09 06:03:32 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Don't wanna be raped? Don't walk around in skimpy clothes?


But that would be unreasonable.

Seriously, what is your objection to simply pleasing a woman so that she's actually satisfied with the encounter instead of full of regret? Is it too gross down there? You're not skilled enough with your tongue? You don't like her touching you? You can only get off like that redtube video you watched? What is it -- it's a fairly innocuous suggestion, and you're fighting me tooth and nail like it's some flagrant and grievous intrusion on your personal liberty.

Is it really that hard or are you just too selfish to give her any attention at all?
2014-07-09 06:02:52 PM  
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?


Um, probably more like:
Women are in higher positions of power on campuses than back in the day, and know that this was a huge problem back in the day when they were a student, passes out anonymous survey to female populace and confirms: Nope. Still a problem.

Also: Better education *about* rape to women, higher awareness of it due to culture, and more women reporting results in higher visibility of a very prevalent problem.

In other words, the best way to circumvent this would be to make all students aware of what consent actually is, and how you shouldn't be drinking if you expect to get laid, you shouldn't have sex with people who have been drinking, and you should get a clear Yes before proceeding.

"Slut-shaming" doesn't really happen on college campuses anymore, either; excepting of course for female on female judging of wardrobe choices. Everybody is free to get laid how they wish, with whom, unless you are raped.

In fact the only time "Slut Shaming" seems to occur nowadays is when a girl comes forward, and says she was raped.
Even worse if she claims rape, and up until then had an active sex life.

You would think if it was such a problem before, somebody would have pointed it out, and as she didn't accuse anyone else of rape, shouldn't the accused should become even more suspect as a result?
2014-07-09 05:58:23 PM  
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: Khellendros: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I don't think it's happening more, it's just finally being treated as unacceptable behavior and a brighter light is being put on it.

"Kids get drunk, kids have sex, better deal with consequences, ladies" is an antiquated way of looking at it.  Today, it's "whatever you did to get there, consent was never given, better deal with the consequences, gentlemen".

I can tell you with no reservation whatsoever that rape was NEVER tolerated when I attended college a quarter-centry ago. So don't give me the "it isn't tolerated now the way it once was." Because this is a myth; it never happened.


I'll get back to you after I stop laughing.

/it's not happy laughter
2014-07-09 05:56:41 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?
Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape.

Don't wanna be raped? Don't walk around in skimpy clothes? Are you wiling to take that chance.
Worried about being raped? Don't give guys any reason to rape you.


Congratulations, you have just turned the "She was asing for it with how she dressed" and turned it into "he was asking for it with that awful performance".
You are officially a horrible person who is setting back this issue by leaps and bounds.
You are using the same argument feminists scream about and trying to use it to justify your own position.
You hypocritical monster.
2014-07-09 05:55:14 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after. And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.


Ho. Lee. Shiat.

Never thought I'd see *that* utterly ridiculous and thoroughly repulsive myth/excuse again.

Just... just stop posting anything ever about rape again. Just stop.
2014-07-09 05:53:00 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.


Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!
2014-07-09 05:48:31 PM  
1 votes:

JesusJuice: spiritplumber: gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.

I lost a semester of college because of a false rape accusation, actually. Not the end of the world, but still. There's also the whole "getting locked up and having no real idea why" part, it was a very scary five days.

Something similar happened to me. She hadn't gone to the police yet but seemed to be moving in that direction. Luckily I had a few things on her that she preferred be kept private and we were able to come to an understanding.


So, first it was rape, then blackmail to keep her quiet about the rape?
2014-07-09 05:45:27 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: So.......you apparently don't get humor, or rhetoric, or a dumb joke, or any of these concepts, eh?


You're trying to make a rhetorical point or dumb joke about rape being merely drunk sex... who is supposed to find that funny, exactly?
Rape victims? Of course not.
Normal people? Nope.
Rapists? There you go.

I'm not saying you're a rapist, but you're certainly doing your best to entertain them.
2014-07-09 05:40:22 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Theaetetus: Elliot8654: JesusJuice: ikanreed: JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.

If drunk sex is rape, I am an unrepentant serial rapist.

Yeah, I got drunk and masturbated once. I mean, i said no to myself, but i was hard, so i must have really wanted it.
Did I rape myself?

Were you incapacitated? Y'know, like the statutes require, rather than merely "buzzed", as you and the other rape apologists like to pretend?

Since when was i a "rape apologist"?


The part where you equated "getting drunk" and "saying no to yourself" to rape. It's quoted in this post, if you can't remember that far.

Did i miss something where I ever said "yeah, she was asking for it"? or "she deserved it"?
I seem to recall my entire point since moment one being "people, be responsible for your actions.


If someone is incapacitated, then by definition, they cannot "be responsible for their actions." Your "entire point" is either the most ignorant piece of drivel I've seen in a while, or it's a rape apology.
2014-07-09 05:23:41 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Khellendros: Elliot8654: Because getting sex through lying, manipulation, peer pressure, drug use, or a thousand other means only happens to one gender, too.

I'm sorry, we were talking about rape.  You know, sex with at least one non-consenting party?  Not this bullshiat you're peddling.  Other than the drug use example, the rest is piles of false equivalency.

http://www.brissc.org.au/resources/for/for_1.html

Some examples of rape include:
An adult relative uses trickery and bribes to make a child participate in a sexual activity.
A husband/partner manipulates his wife into having sex in order to 'keep the peace' or to 'show that she loves him' or that it is 'her duty' or 'his entitlement'.
A boy/man pressures a girl/woman into having sex when she is not ready.
A man expects a woman to have sex after buying her a drink or dinner.
A man has sex with a woman when she is too drunk or drugged to give or refuse consent.
A general practitioner convinces a woman to undertake an intimate examination when it is unnecessary or inappropriate.


I'm sorry, you were saying?


From the very first line on that page: "Our definition of rape is broader than most conventional or legal definitions."

I'm sorry, you were saying?
2014-07-09 05:23:21 PM  
1 votes:

KawaiiNot: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

Seriously, I wonder this too. Are more parents failing at raising their boys to be real men these days? It was not an epidemic back when I went to college and was in the military. It happened but it was much more rare. was reported much less often.


FTFY
2014-07-09 05:21:40 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: SeriousGeorge: I think the line "It's not about you" is even more damning than what you highlighted. I'm a human being too, why am I relegated to being servile to her sexual desires while not even considering my own? Why should it be exclusively about her?

And I'm sure the peacock thinks "Why the fark do I need this big ass tail? Why the fark should I have to do anything for her? She should just come to me for me, is that not enough?"


Yeah! It's the guy's job to look good and be kind and caring for the girl!
So you aren't even a feminist, you just care about women getting what they want.
Men are second class to that.
So proud of you.
2014-07-09 05:20:24 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: If you want to know what I am against

I don't care. We've already concluded that part several posts ago.



Then you are no better than the MRA's. 
You want them to learn about you point of view and listen to you, and do what you say.
But you refuse to learn about others, and their points of view.

You are either a well crafted troll, or just a mediocre person.
Have fun being one of those, because people won't respect either.
2014-07-09 05:16:05 PM  
1 votes:

Libelec: Ishkur: JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after.

And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.


So, don't make any demands or unreasonable expectations, but do all this things we demand, you selfish douchebag?

Thanks, but I'd rather stick to the fleshlight than deal with this level of hypocrisy and double-speech.


I think the line "It's not about you" is even more damning than what you highlighted. I'm a human being too, why am I relegated to being servile to her sexual desires while not even considering my own? Why should it be exclusively about her?
2014-07-09 05:15:56 PM  
1 votes:

Khellendros: Elliot8654: Because getting sex through lying, manipulation, peer pressure, drug use, or a thousand other means only happens to one gender, too.

I'm sorry, we were talking about rape.  You know, sex with at least one non-consenting party?  Not this bullshiat you're peddling.  Other than the drug use example, the rest is piles of false equivalency.


http://www.brissc.org.au/resources/for/for_1.html

Some examples of rape include:
An adult relative uses trickery and bribes to make a child participate in a sexual activity.
A husband/partner manipulates his wife into having sex in order to 'keep the peace' or to 'show that she loves him' or that it is 'her duty' or 'his entitlement'.
A boy/man pressures a girl/woman into having sex when she is not ready.
A man expects a woman to have sex after buying her a drink or dinner.
A man has sex with a woman when she is too drunk or drugged to give or refuse consent.
A general practitioner convinces a woman to undertake an intimate examination when it is unnecessary or inappropriate.


I'm sorry, you were saying?
2014-07-09 04:57:19 PM  
1 votes:

Inchoate: Khellendros: It's exceptionally difficult for it to be the woman (though it is possible, and likely does occur from time to time).

If the guy's drunk, whiskey-dick usually inhibits penetrative rape, but there are definitely cases of women taking advantage of drunk dudes. Not common, but happens.


Because getting sex through lying, manipulation, peer pressure, drug use, or a thousand other means only happens to one gender, too.
2014-07-09 04:51:38 PM  
1 votes:

Mikey1969: then you are going to be seen as a rape apologist,


No, YOU are going to see me as a rape apologist because actually considering what I have to say will make you feel distressed because considering uh, someone else's opinion might make you rethink your own. You can't have that -right?

Ishkur: This from the guy who literally denies ALL OF HISTORY.


No, I deny your weird version of it in a thread about how people create their own reality to replace, uh, THE reality.

Here's a quote:

Ishkur: You pointing out exceptions doesn't discredit the fact that for the past 10,000 years women have been severely controlled, owned, marginalized, neglected and discredited by men.


You have problems determining the difference between fact and your own opinion.
2014-07-09 04:46:49 PM  
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Khellendros: "Kids get drunk, kids have sex, better deal with consequences, ladies" is an antiquated way of looking at it. Today, it's "whatever you did to get there, consent was never given, better deal with the consequences, gentlemen".

If both parties are drunk, two rapes have been committed.


Only rarely.  Unless she grabs him and forces him in, he's the one who took the action.  While I'm not going to claim this doesn't happen, I would assert it is the extreme minority of cases.
2014-07-09 04:41:07 PM  
1 votes:

Mikey1969: Look, if you are going to open with "But people have falsely accused others of rape", and then backed it up with another "See, this woman made a false accusation", then you are going to be seen as a rape apologist, especially since that seems to be the ONLY card you are playing. If you don't want to be seen as an apologist, then the normal approach would be to take the "Well, I can see both sides of the argument" track.

Except you didn't do that, you just keep throwing out the same tired shiat.


As someone who has been falsely accused of rape and blackmailed over the situation in the past when he was 19, he's full of shiat. False rape accusations do occur - however, they are the rare exception rather than the rule of reporting. In addition, while it is a destructive way to try to ruin someone's life, it is  exceptionally rare, with  questionable reporting encompassing around 4.6 to 6% of all reported rapes, and false reporting definitively identified in <1% of rape reports.
2014-07-09 04:39:41 PM  
1 votes:

Khellendros: "Kids get drunk, kids have sex, better deal with consequences, ladies" is an antiquated way of looking at it. Today, it's "whatever you did to get there, consent was never given, better deal with the consequences, gentlemen".


If both parties are drunk, two rapes have been committed.
2014-07-09 04:36:52 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Mikey1969: Some people making false claims doesn't let real offenders off of the hook, sorry.

You see mikey this is why my notes on you are 100% correct. Nowhere do I claim to support "real offenders" -only you and the white knight fembot hordes seem to be making this claim.

Anyone pointing out that it is financially lucrative for someone to falsely accuse someone else of rape is akin to 'letting rapists go free' is a false equivalence.

For example Wanetta Gibson made $750,000 after accusing Brian Banks of rape. The only reason she got caught is because she felt remorse.I submit that most women who do this do not feel remorse.


Look, if you are going to open with "But people have falsely accused others of rape", and then backed it up with another "See, this woman made a false accusation", then you are going to be seen as a rape apologist, especially since that seems to be the ONLY card you are playing. If you don't want to be seen as an apologist, then the normal approach would be to take the "Well, I can see both sides of the argument" track.

Except you didn't do that, you just keep throwing out the same tired shiat.
2014-07-09 04:34:56 PM  
1 votes:
"[the] vast majority of female students allegedly raped on campus are actually voicing buyer's remorse from alcohol-fueled promiscuous behavior involving murky lines of consent on both sides. It's true. It's their get-out-of-guilt-free card, you know, like Monopoly."

-Barbara Kay, speaker at the first International Conference on Men's Rights hosted in Detroit last week.
2014-07-09 04:29:17 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Mikey1969: Some people making false claims doesn't let real offenders off of the hook, sorry.

You see mikey this is why my notes on you are 100% correct. Nowhere do I claim to support "real offenders" -only you and the white knight fembot hordes seem to be making this claim.

Anyone pointing out that it is financially lucrative for someone to falsely accuse someone else of rape is akin to 'letting rapists go free' is a false equivalence.

For example Wanetta Gibson made $750,000 after accusing Brian Banks of rape. The only reason she got caught is because she felt remorse.I submit that most women who do this do not feel remorse.


So, what we've learned here today according to The People in Power are Stupid:

1) The majority of rapes reported are false.
2) Those false rapes are as a rule motivated by financial gain.
3) Most women who report to be raped are remorseless sociopaths.

Yeah. Okay.
2014-07-09 04:12:23 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

So you ARE a douchebag who's awful in bed. I called it.

Get better at pleasing her and you won't have those awkward chats. If the girl feels self-conscious the morning after (or grabs her things and leaves before you wake up and does the walk of shame), you farked up. You are terrible at sex.

But at least you're not a rapist.


so in the reverse, if I'm really good at sex, is it not rape now?

She regrets it if it wasn't good?

Damn you really must have led a sheltered life and not made any mistakes. Or maybe you have no idea who I am or what my Sex life has been like, but feel free to judge.
2014-07-09 04:11:56 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.


Isn't "being drunk" usually imply incapable of giving consent?
2014-07-09 04:01:08 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.
But if she is drunk, and she is peeling my clothes off...
I'd I tell her to stop and she won't, who is raping who?


You mean when the other person doesn't see themselves as having been taken advantage of, it's not exactly the same?

Whoa.

You mean, in spite of the fact that you did that, no one came and arrested you, because rape accusations aren't random and coming from nowhere?

Whoa.
2014-07-09 03:59:40 PM  
1 votes:

poot_rootbeer: Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit


Oh, they've been plastering these on college campuses.

manboobz.files.wordpress.com

And, in the event someone wants to say they don't, here's AVfM's Paul Elam in his own words:

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks ...  paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m..  Sometimes both of these women end up being the "victims" of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won't change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING biatch - PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
2014-07-09 03:56:18 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Do they imprison the person who sold you the house?
They did take advantage of you.
No?
Then how about we agree that rape should be handled differently than buying a car.


It can sure as hell result in prison time if they intentionally got you drunk first, yes.

That's fraud, bro.
2014-07-09 03:52:10 PM  
1 votes:
Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit
2014-07-09 03:50:24 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.


No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.
2014-07-09 03:49:21 PM  
1 votes:

Elliot8654: Ishkur: Elliot8654: So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".

No -- do these things if you don't want to be accused of rape. Or just have a rumor going around her friends that you suck in bed. Up to you.

Wait??

So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?

What's next? "Well he was asking for it. He didn't cuddle."

Seriously, no. You get accused of rape when you have Sex with someone when they say no and don't want it. Not when you don't do it the way they like it.


Well, anything is possible, but that's a fictionalized scenario that is so improbable and so out of line with how actual rape accusations work, than you can tell it's the paranoid fantasy of deluded mind.
2014-07-09 03:48:38 PM  
1 votes:

Ant: KawaiiNot: JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

Seriously, I wonder this too. Are more parents failing at raising their boys to be real men these days? It was not an epidemic back when I went to college and was in the military. It happened but it was much more rare.

It was not more rare, they just got away with it back then.


Are you a woman who went to college in the 80s/90s? I am an actual woman who lived back then and I can tell you that while I knew a few women who that happened to, it did not happen as commonly as it does today. Reported to police or not, women talk about these things with their close friends or their friends pull why they are upset out of them.

It's not just a matter of reporting it more, it's also happening much more on college campuses and the military.
2014-07-09 03:47:28 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Elliot8654: So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".

No -- do these things if you don't want to be accused of rape. Or just have a rumor going around her friends that you suck in bed. Up to you.


Wait??

So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?

What's next? "Well he was asking for it. He didn't cuddle."

Seriously, no. You get accused of rape when you have Sex with someone when they say no and don't want it. Not when you don't do it the way they like it.
2014-07-09 03:46:08 PM  
1 votes:

JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.


Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.
2014-07-09 03:43:08 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Ant: Define rape

To that idiot, getting a girl passed out on drinks then having sex with her is not rape.


Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.
2014-07-09 03:39:56 PM  
1 votes:

Ant: Define rape


To that idiot, getting a girl passed out on drinks then having sex with her is not rape.
2014-07-09 03:37:34 PM  
1 votes:

Ant: fireclown: Ant: * We are using a definition of rape other than the one used by Republican legislators

[www.thelookingspoon.com image 425x499]
And a few others.

I was going to include her in there too. fark you, Whoopie. Drugging a 13 year old girl and farking her up the ass in your hot tub is still rape, even if you do happen to be a Hollywood director.


The insane thing is that a petition was circulated that indicated support from individuals in the movie industry, and PEOPLE SIGNED IT.

Click here for a list of bad people.
2014-07-09 03:35:59 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after. And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.


So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".
2014-07-09 03:34:46 PM  
1 votes:

gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

spiritplumber: I lost a semester of college because of a false rape accusation, actually. Not the end of the world, but still. There's also the whole "getting locked up and having no real idea why" part, it was a very scary five days.


Brother let me give you some advice. I've never been accused of rape but the politics of having sex with someone that you meet at work means basically that one of you is going to have to go. Just avoid the whole situation. Lie if you have to. If they are harassing you for a date, tell them you are seeing someone.

I know that school isn't work but it's coming to the point where the same attitude applies. Don't date from school or work; just don't do it.
2014-07-09 03:31:25 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]


Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.

Did I move on to the bonus round?
2014-07-09 03:26:21 PM  
1 votes:
I just skimmed the article, but I didn't see anything associated with Byzantium. Was Subby trying to say Draconian?
2014-07-09 03:24:00 PM  
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: I have been wondering: What the hell is going on here? Have men started raping women on campuses at unprecedented rates? Can college-aged boys be more prone to sexual violence today than in other generations?

I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?


Seriously, I wonder this too. Are more parents failing at raising their boys to be real men these days? It was not an epidemic back when I went to college and was in the military. It happened but it was much more rare.
2014-07-09 03:22:27 PM  
1 votes:
"evade", Subby?

Judging from the article, more like "comply with".
2014-07-09 03:20:38 PM  
1 votes:

thaduke: To be fair, if these regulations were actually 'Byzantine', they would involve gouging someone's eyes out, or cutting off their nose/tongue, and being unbelievably arrogant and superior.  Oh, and being very fickle and combative about your particular version of Christianity.

Feminism.

Change one word and that is a fitting description for most liberal arts colleges these days.
2014-07-09 03:16:26 PM  
1 votes:

gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


I lost a semester of college because of a false rape accusation, actually. Not the end of the world, but still. There's also the whole "getting locked up and having no real idea why" part, it was a very scary five days.
 
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