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(New York Sun)   1) Write byzantine sex-assault regulations for colleges 2) Accept high-dollar job helping colleges evade byzantine sex-assault regulations 3) Profit 4) Repeat   (nysun.com) divider line 406
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7099 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 3:04 PM (6 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-09 08:07:15 PM

OgreMagi: tlars699: OgreMagi: tlars699: Note: If both parties were arrested for having drunk sex, maybe the divorce rate would go down, because people would stop meeting their "life-mates" at the bar scene.

How else am I supposed to meet "the one" other than at the local psychiatric hospital?  And we already know how that turned out.

You could meet them at a gaming convention, or through a D&D group, and then re-meeting at a sushi place 6 years later, like I did.

I haven't been to a gaming convention is god knows how long.  Way back then (during the jurassic), women into gaming was extremely limited.


Well.... it still sort of is... I guess.... I'm one of three girls that go to the Comic Shop of MTG Fridays, (About 10 dudes show up, and of us three girls, only two make it any given week.)

Since 3.5 made the rules make more sense (I know; I've played Thac0 2nd ed most recently, still prefer the 1 d20 for majority of rolls- and any 1 d system? WAAAAAAAY Better. Champions/Shadowrun/Gurps= <3) there have been more ladies interested on average, and more laides have come because of brainy chicks being into fantasy more often than biographies lately.

4th ed is a pile of crap though, and I would much rather play Pathfinder than that bunk of bull.

There are also quite a few more conventions to be able to go to nowadays as well, due to the anime/comic crowds. Quite a few pics of really good and hot cosplayers, too. :D

Unfortunately, I don't have any real cis-girl friends to hook you up with, as most of the people I socialize with are either males in my peer group, or older women at work. :\
 
2014-07-09 08:11:42 PM

Elliot8654: tlars699: OgreMagi: tlars699: I do agree that it seems a mite ridiculous to have the guy as the only responsible party in that situation.
But the guy can always go sleep it off on the couch, just as the drunk driver can always pass of his keys.

It's not a mite ridiculous.  It's a big farking gross miscarriage of injustice.  Ladies, if you demand equal rights, you must accept equal responsibility.

As for a drunk guy telling a naked drunk girl to stop.  In what universe is that going to happen?

In any sensible one, where they say "But Baby, I want to get to know you first- you know, talk until the sun rises" instead, because the unsaid bits are (because I can smell the EverClear on your breath and please just get mad and leave if you feel rejected, because I don't want to have to babysit tonight.)

Also, I would say that the more drunk person has the least responsibility.
As women have a harder time processing the same volume of alcohol as men, that would mean on average women would be the persons being taken advantage of in a drunken state.
However, "taking advantage" of either party can be avoided in general if women are told: You get drunk, you go home to Your House, and do NOT have sex or plan to while inebriated.
And if men are told: You SHOULD say NO to the drunk girl flinging her panties at you. If her panties stay off while sober, have at it, but until she's sober, NO!!!!! If she keeps wheedling you about it, she is trying to coerce you, and you should have her leave. You have the right to say NO.

Making the guy responsible in that situation might encourage the whole idea of men having consent options, as well.
As a temporary measure until our culture catches up to this idea, this rule? Meh. I'm having a hard time having a problem with it.
If the girl wants to get laid that badly, she can do it sober.
Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people ...


It's just like handing car keys to another one of your friends, or them forcing you to give them up when they know you've had more than "that one 3 hours ago".

Or you know, maybe we could get over the whole drinking for recreation thing.

I know, I know, "that's crazy talk!!". :\

If only more people played D&D, instead of UUNTSS UUNTSS UUNTSS *do ewes come in here off 10?*
UUNTSS UUNTSS UUNTSS *NAAAAAAOOW giggle you're cute!! Let's dance!!*
 
2014-07-09 08:11:59 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: When did rape and military service become mutually exclusive?


Quite a while ago. These days, if you rape someone or even take negative action against someone that was raped, you are going to face serious consequences. The military takes that very seriously.
 
2014-07-09 08:13:46 PM

tlars699: It's just like handing car keys to another one of your friends, or them forcing you to give them up when they know you've had more than "that one 3 hours ago".


This guy's pretty smart. His posts here have been some of the only ones that actually make any sense at all.
 
2014-07-09 08:14:18 PM

OgreMagi: Elliot8654: Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with sexual urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered.

Yeah, that will go well on the whole....

Exactly my point, which has been repeatedly ignored.  Drunk people make stupid choices.  Drunk guys faced with naked boobies saying "fark me" will only make one choice.


Actually, I have to refute that based on some anecdotes I have.

It sucks being drunk and rejected, btw. Lots of depressants in a system getting depressed? Yeah, no good.
 
2014-07-09 08:15:05 PM

Tobin_Lam: tlars699: It's just like handing car keys to another one of your friends, or them forcing you to give them up when they know you've had more than "that one 3 hours ago".

This guy's pretty smart. His posts here have been some of the only ones that actually make any sense at all.


I'm a girl. But we coo. We coo.
 
2014-07-09 08:20:39 PM

tlars699: OgreMagi: Elliot8654: Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with sexual urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered.

Yeah, that will go well on the whole....

Exactly my point, which has been repeatedly ignored.  Drunk people make stupid choices.  Drunk guys faced with naked boobies saying "fark me" will only make one choice.

Actually, I have to refute that based on some anecdotes I have.

It sucks being drunk and rejected, btw. Lots of depressants in a system getting depressed? Yeah, no good.


Maybe I should clarify that.  A drunk college guy isn't going to say no.  I'm a bit older and have said no even when I was drunk because I've learned some common sense and ethics that stick despite the alcohol.  I have two rules regarding sex.  1. Don't fark married women.  2. Don't fark someone I won't want to see tomorrow.

Sadly, I never get the opportunity to test my commitment to these rules.  Not any more.
 
2014-07-09 08:24:57 PM

Ishkur: And the fact that human cultures were at one time egalitarian (before the Age of Agriculture) suggests that our gender roles are fairly more nuanced and complicated than other sapien species, and that patriarchy is a function of social organization and not an endemic evolutionary trait of the species.


Patriarchy doesn't exist. It's a fairly good description of some ancient civilizations but a poor description of a modern democracy.

Ishkur: I take it you are neither an anthropologist, economist, sociologist or demographer, and you quite simply do not have the knowledge or the education to even attempt to assert that you know what you are talking about.


That is an  ad hominem fallacy. Whether I have had or had not done graduate level work in Culture and Evolution is not relevant because the level of comprehension that is required is minute. I believe that you can even understand it if you are not too busy obfuscating and creating strawmen.

Ishkur: Theaetetus: I think Ishkur is saying that if a man is bad at sex,


You guys kinda have the same writing style. Are you sure you aren't the same person?
 
2014-07-09 08:25:13 PM

poot_rootbeer: Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit


"Stop defending yourself!  Stop defending yourself!"
 
2014-07-09 08:36:36 PM

Devil's Playground: JesusJuice: spiritplumber: gopher321: Because People in power are Stupid: Will the nonstop rape carnival never end?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 547x452]

I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.

I lost a semester of college because of a false rape accusation, actually. Not the end of the world, but still. There's also the whole "getting locked up and having no real idea why" part, it was a very scary five days.

Something similar happened to me. She hadn't gone to the police yet but seemed to be moving in that direction. Luckily I had a few things on her that she preferred be kept private and we were able to come to an understanding.

So, first it was rape, then blackmail to keep her quiet about the rape?


Nah, she was just pissed that I didn't want a relationship with her and figured that because she thought the sex meant something and I didn't it meant I'd raped her.

I did blackmail her, though. Won't deny that. Don't regret it.
 
2014-07-09 08:38:45 PM

tlars699: Elliot8654: tlars699: OgreMagi: tlars699: I do agree that it seems a mite ridiculous to have the guy as the only responsible party in that situation.
But the guy can always go sleep it off on the couch, just as the drunk driver can always pass of his keys.

It's not a mite ridiculous.  It's a big farking gross miscarriage of injustice.  Ladies, if you demand equal rights, you must accept equal responsibility.

As for a drunk guy telling a naked drunk girl to stop.  In what universe is that going to happen?

In any sensible one, where they say "But Baby, I want to get to know you first- you know, talk until the sun rises" instead, because the unsaid bits are (because I can smell the EverClear on your breath and please just get mad and leave if you feel rejected, because I don't want to have to babysit tonight.)

Also, I would say that the more drunk person has the least responsibility.
As women have a harder time processing the same volume of alcohol as men, that would mean on average women would be the persons being taken advantage of in a drunken state.
However, "taking advantage" of either party can be avoided in general if women are told: You get drunk, you go home to Your House, and do NOT have sex or plan to while inebriated.
And if men are told: You SHOULD say NO to the drunk girl flinging her panties at you. If her panties stay off while sober, have at it, but until she's sober, NO!!!!! If she keeps wheedling you about it, she is trying to coerce you, and you should have her leave. You have the right to say NO.

Making the guy responsible in that situation might encourage the whole idea of men having consent options, as well.
As a temporary measure until our culture catches up to this idea, this rule? Meh. I'm having a hard time having a problem with it.
If the girl wants to get laid that badly, she can do it sober.
Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people ...

It's just like handing car keys to another one of your friends, or them forcing you to give them up when they know you've had more than "that one 3 hours ago".

Or you know, maybe we could get over the whole drinking for recreation thing.

I know, I know, "that's crazy talk!!". :\

If only more people played D&D, instead of UUNTSS UUNTSS UUNTSS *do ewes come in here off 10?*
UUNTSS UUNTSS UUNTSS *NAAAAAAOOW giggle you're cute!! Let's dance!!*


Dude, drinking and playing D&D was my weekend.

Lemme tell you about a dwarven reaping mauler who choke slammed a dragon....
 
2014-07-09 08:39:07 PM

Ishkur: Elliot8654: so in the reverse, if I'm really good at sex, is it not rape now?

That's almost an oxymoron. Is there such a thing as a good rapist? If the girl doesn't want it, you can't make her want it. If the girl wants it and you fail to deliver, you're an awful douchebag who's bad in bed.

Since you have admitted having a number of the latter occurrences, that makes you an awful douchebag who's bad in bed. Complaining to me isn't going to help things. Read some DH Lawrence.



You leave coal miners out of this!
 
2014-07-09 08:42:36 PM
This constant bleating of "MRA" everytime someone asks a question or has a poor experience is ridiculous. You aren't doing any good for the people you claim to be defending, and observers start to wonder why they can't be addressed civily.

You are no better than religious busybodies labeling everything and everyone you don't like as heresy and heretics.
 
2014-07-09 08:47:53 PM

brimed03: JesusJuice: Corvus: Ant: Define rape

To that idiot, getting a girl passed out on drinks then having sex with her is not rape.

Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Drunk people cannot legally give consent. The judge doesn't really care if you don't agree with that.

But the lay explanation: judgement and inhibition drop the more you drink. While we've been socially encouraged to think that this is a good thing ("have a drink, loosen up") it means you're in an altered state of mind; you aren't yourself, and therefore cannot make important decisions.

Most people would acknowledge that it would be wrong to get someone drunk and then have them sign a contract. Same thing with sex.


Yet if someone gets behind the wheel of a car, even if I beg them to drive, they're still responsible.

You're absolutely mistaken about intoxication negating consent. Consent is consent. If someone is so drunk as to be INCAPACITATED, then consent is impossible. To sum up:

Girl gets drunk, becomes sloppy and incoherent, and people have sex with her in this state. That's rape.

Girl gets drunk, gets horny, and has enthusiastic sex with someone she wouldn't normally want to sleep with. NOT RAPE.
 
2014-07-09 08:49:11 PM

JesusJuice: Nah, she was just pissed that I didn't want a relationship with her and figured that because she thought the sex meant something and I didn't it meant I'd raped her.


Thats actually what we were taught 'rape' was in college. They considered that any consent done under false pretenses meant the consent wasn't fully informed and therefore rape, even if the person was willing at the time.

/So yes, by their rules; Saying you will call her later, and then not doing it, constituted prosecutable rape.
//Yes, that complaint actually did happen, and yes, the university did call in the police to perform an arrest.
///No, the police wouldn't have any of that nonsense.
 
2014-07-09 08:56:06 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Patriarchy doesn't exist.


Yes it does.

Because People in power are Stupid: It's a fairly good description of some ancient civilizations but a poor description of a modern democracy.


Oh? And at what point did modern democracy stop being a patriarchal institution?

Because People in power are Stupid: That is an ad hominem fallacy.


Actually, it's closer to argumentum ad authoritatum fallacy, but it's neither because it's true. I'm simply not interested in having a discussion with someone who's not very knowledgeable in the subject matter and refuses to accept basic facts. It's like having an argument with a schizophrenic.
 
2014-07-09 09:08:47 PM

Ishkur: Because People in power are Stupid: Patriarchy doesn't exist.

Yes it does.

Because People in power are Stupid: It's a fairly good description of some ancient civilizations but a poor description of a modern democracy.

Oh? And at what point did modern democracy stop being a patriarchal institution?

Because People in power are Stupid: That is an ad hominem fallacy.

Actually, it's closer to argumentum ad authoritatum fallacy, but it's neither because it's true. I'm simply not interested in having a discussion with someone who's not very knowledgeable in the subject matter and refuses to accept basic facts. It's like having an argument with a schizophrenic.


Help me out here is Patriarchy Theory falsifiable? How does one test for Patriarchy?

A lot of assertions not a whole lot of data.
 
2014-07-09 09:13:45 PM

sinisterben: How does one test for Patriarchy?


On th Maury Show, obviously

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-07-09 09:13:46 PM

sinisterben: Ishkur: Because People in power are Stupid: Patriarchy doesn't exist.

Yes it does.

Because People in power are Stupid: It's a fairly good description of some ancient civilizations but a poor description of a modern democracy.

Oh? And at what point did modern democracy stop being a patriarchal institution?

Because People in power are Stupid: That is an ad hominem fallacy.

Actually, it's closer to argumentum ad authoritatum fallacy, but it's neither because it's true. I'm simply not interested in having a discussion with someone who's not very knowledgeable in the subject matter and refuses to accept basic facts. It's like having an argument with a schizophrenic.

Help me out here is Patriarchy Theory falsifiable? How does one test for Patriarchy?

A lot of assertions not a whole lot of data.


Don't debate with GWSS majors, they argue from emotion rather than rationality and empiricism. They have nothing to add to an intelligent conversation but unfounded and misinformed invective and are best ignored.
 
2014-07-09 09:26:13 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: sinisterben: How does one test for Patriarchy?

On th Maury Show, obviously


Okay, you owe me a monitor and a new soda.
 
2014-07-09 09:34:57 PM

Ivan the Tolerable: JesusJuice: Nah, she was just pissed that I didn't want a relationship with her and figured that because she thought the sex meant something and I didn't it meant I'd raped her.

Thats actually what we were taught 'rape' was in college. They considered that any consent done under false pretenses meant the consent wasn't fully informed and therefore rape, even if the person was willing at the time.

/So yes, by their rules; Saying you will call her later, and then not doing it, constituted prosecutable rape.
//Yes, that complaint actually did happen, and yes, the university did call in the police to perform an arrest.
///No, the police wouldn't have any of that nonsense.


MRA! You should have been a better lover!

//Does this reposnse make sense to anyone?
 
2014-07-09 09:43:03 PM

sinisterben: Help me out here is Patriarchy Theory falsifiable? How does one test for Patriarchy?


Patriarchy simply means rule by men.

So look up the leaders and rulers of all social, political, religious, commercial and martial institutions, at the local, state, national and international level. If they are predominantly male and/or if those institutions have special rules restricting access or participation in them from females, then you can safely say that they are patriarchies.
 
2014-07-09 09:46:06 PM

Tobin_Lam: BolshyGreatYarblocks: When did rape and military service become mutually exclusive?

Quite a while ago. These days, if you rape someone or even take negative action against someone that was raped, you are going to face serious consequences. The military takes that very seriously.


Or claims it does.  It says the same about torture, about killing POWs, about killing civilians.........


And it always has.
 
2014-07-09 09:47:00 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Help me out here is Patriarchy Theory falsifiable? How does one test for Patriarchy?

Patriarchy simply means rule by men.

So look up the leaders and rulers of all social, political, religious, commercial and martial institutions, at the local, state, national and international level. If they are predominantly male and/or if those institutions have special rules restricting access or participation in them from females, then you can safely say that they are patriarchies.


Okay, Rule by Men. Are women still over half of the voting population? How exactly does that work out?
 
2014-07-09 09:48:59 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Ishkur: I did. In my very Boobies. You notice that no woman objected to my advice but the MRAs jumped all over it? That's telling. It means it's not just about women, it's a bigger complex of resisting anything might be tell them how to behave or live, which is probably why MRAs are almost always Libertarians/Objectivists.

1) You don't have boobies, they're called moobies on a guy.
2) There are very few women on Fark and guys outnumber women like 10 to 1. (Seriously go to Digichick to talk to women)lol
3) That's called a Strawman argument and not a very good one. Gender issues are not  exclusive to any one political group.


Actually there are a lot of women on Fark. Most of us don't have female identifiers in our names. Same reason I don't buy pink guns.
 
2014-07-09 09:49:22 PM

sinisterben: Are women still over half of the voting population? How exactly does that work out?


How does what work out? What are you asking?
 
2014-07-09 09:55:17 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Are women still over half of the voting population? How exactly does that work out?

How does what work out? What are you asking?


Last I checked, voters pick who represents us. If the opression was so detrimental, couldn't this rule by men be usurped by simple population numbers?

And that is assuming not one vote is cast in favor by men. Who as I recall voted to allow women the right to vote. It would seem to me that the rule by men isn't as clear cut as you would like it to be.
 
2014-07-09 09:55:57 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Help me out here is Patriarchy Theory falsifiable? How does one test for Patriarchy?

Patriarchy simply means rule by men.

So look up the leaders and rulers of all social, political, religious, commercial and martial institutions, at the local, state, national and international level. If they are predominantly male and/or if those institutions have special rules restricting access or participation in them from females, then you can safely say that they are patriarchies.


Well, we will be on a patriarchy for a while yet then. Feminism went on a victimhood bender between versions 2.0 and 3.0 and aren't capable of leading a burger flipping shift without getting triggered and needing time off and counselling.

You need confident, dependable, responsible people for certain positions in society, and being the worlds biggest victim (in need of the greatest care) means that is not you.
 
2014-07-09 09:59:48 PM

Elliot8654: Theaetetus: Elliot8654: The end of that sentence sums up why i don't take you seriously " if you want to avoid being a douchebag who's awful at sex, and possibly a rapist, it's recommended. "

So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

If your victim is incapacitated, then it goes a bit farther than you sucking at sex.

Agreed. But that's not what was referred to in the original post.
Go up and read the whole tirade on how "a man is supposed to treat a woman"
Despite the attitude that women don't "owe" men anything, but we owe them everything she is demanding.
That's my problem with all this.
equality, please.


If you suck that bad at sex, why not see a sex therapist? She could have instructed you in several techniques in the time it took you to write these whiney posts. While you're supposedly cooking steak, pasta and vegetables for a fiancé with a masters degree, LOL
 
2014-07-09 10:01:15 PM

sinisterben: Last I checked, voters pick who represents us


You really think voting determines the system of rule? ...oh, you're just adorable.

Okay, now make excuses for the social, religious, commercial and martial institutions as well.
 
2014-07-09 10:06:34 PM
This thread eerily reminds me of mass shooting threads where some people come in defending their guns and acting like the real victims.
 
2014-07-09 10:06:45 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Last I checked, voters pick who represents us

You really think voting determines the system of rule? ...oh, you're just adorable.

Okay, now make excuses for the social, religious, commercial and martial institutions as well.


Why? Last I checked we were discussing patriarchy, which again you assert followed by a lot of hand waving and name calling. Then we even have to discount democracy of all things? Yep, I'm adorable.
 
2014-07-09 10:09:08 PM

zzrhardy: Well, we will be on a patriarchy for a while yet then.


Oh we will, but not because of feminism. Cultural shifts and attitudes take generations to go through various Hegelian dialectics (MRA is the antithesis to the feminism thesis -- about time it showed up), and from experience and observation, it's never the old generations that are converted but rather the new generations are brought up with something different and accept it as normal while the old ones die off. We're seeing the same thing with the Tea Party: old people resisting change while dying off.

We'll be long dead before true gender or racial equality is reached.
 
2014-07-09 10:09:16 PM

Pichu0102: This thread eerily reminds me of mass shooting threads where some people come in defending their guns and acting like the real victims.


Yes of course asking questions is just like mass murder threads. Christ, I never said I was a victim, but still there it is. Categorise and dismiss, it's way easier than discussing things openly.
 
2014-07-09 10:10:41 PM

sinisterben: Why? Last I checked we were discussing patriarchy, which again you assert followed by a lot of hand waving and name calling. Then we even have to discount democracy of all things? Yep, I'm adorable.


Because you want to dispute the existence of patriarchy. I pointed out where it exists, and you decided to ignore everything but politics. Politics wasn't my argument.
 
2014-07-09 10:12:24 PM

Ishkur: zzrhardy: Well, we will be on a patriarchy for a while yet then.

Oh we will, but not because of feminism. Cultural shifts and attitudes take generations to go through various Hegelian dialectics (MRA is the antithesis to the feminism thesis -- about time it showed up), and from experience and observation, it's never the old generations that are converted but rather the new generations are brought up with something different and accept it as normal while the old ones die off. We're seeing the same thing with the Tea Party: old people resisting change while dying off.

We'll be long dead before true gender or racial equality is reached.


Has this patriarchy done anything to benefit women? Why is parity not an acceptable outcome? Does patriarchy harm men in any way?
 
2014-07-09 10:15:09 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Tobin_Lam: BolshyGreatYarblocks: When did rape and military service become mutually exclusive?

Quite a while ago. These days, if you rape someone or even take negative action against someone that was raped, you are going to face serious consequences. The military takes that very seriously.

Or claims it does.  It says the same about torture, about killing POWs, about killing civilians.........


And it always has.


They must be making it up when they send out monthly summaries of disciplinary actions. Last month, an Army Lt Col was in there for trying to get a Lt that was sexually assaulted to quit. He didn't want to deal with her and tried to force her out. He got punished by a General above him. I saw the redacted documentation myself, along with thousands of others. Do you really think the Army was making it up?
 
2014-07-09 10:16:13 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Why? Last I checked we were discussing patriarchy, which again you assert followed by a lot of hand waving and name calling. Then we even have to discount democracy of all things? Yep, I'm adorable.

Because you want to dispute the existence of patriarchy. I pointed out where it exists, and you decided to ignore everything but politics. Politics wasn't my argument.


Wow, you know, I have the ability fo define monarchy, or oligarghy, or theocracy, and I can even define ways to falsify those definitions. But you, you get to assert a fact, and I have to just accept it. Does England have a queen? Are they a matriarchy in your mind? Of course not, because, patriarchy.
 
2014-07-09 10:16:33 PM

Elliot8654: tlars699:Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with sexual urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered.


Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with hunger urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered not to drive to White Castle.

I think your logic just excused drunk driving on a "boys will be boys" defense.
 
2014-07-09 10:17:49 PM

Theaetetus: Elliot8654: tlars699:Guy forces girl to sober up first for fear of consequences? Yeah, having a hard time with the problem there.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with sexual urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered.

Only problem. You're talking about drunk people with hunger urges using logic and reason and good judgment at 2 am while hammered not to drive to White Castle.

I think your logic just excused drunk driving on a "boys will be boys" defense.


Or assumed drunk driving happens no matter how illegal it is.
 
2014-07-09 10:18:16 PM

sinisterben: Has this patriarchy done anything to benefit women?


It wouldn't see the point.

sinisterben: Why is parity not an acceptable outcome?


It is. Eventually.

sinisterben: Does patriarchy harm men in any way?


That's an odd thing to ask. It's like saying "does being hot hurt the sun?"
 
2014-07-09 10:19:24 PM

sinisterben: Does England have a queen? Are they a matriarchy in your mind?


Did women create England's institutional monarchy?
 
2014-07-09 10:20:27 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Has this patriarchy done anything to benefit women?

It wouldn't see the point.

sinisterben: Why is parity not an acceptable outcome?

It is. Eventually.

sinisterben: Does patriarchy harm men in any way?

That's an odd thing to ask. It's like saying "does being hot hurt the sun?"


Hand waving. Awesome. Good talk. Can god make a taco so large he can't eat it? That's awesome.
 
2014-07-09 10:22:49 PM

Ishkur: sinisterben: Does England have a queen? Are they a matriarchy in your mind?

Did women create England's institutional monarchy?


Wait so now women have to create a system before it can be anything but patriarchy? You are proving my point here, you aren't defining anything meaningful.
 
2014-07-09 10:45:18 PM

Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!


This is terrifying. Are you actually insane? Did you actually type this?

Does anyone actually agree with this monster?
 
2014-07-09 10:46:04 PM

gopher321: I'm sure the actual raping going on outweighs a few media-hyped false reports.


So long as we refuse to admit false rape is a real issue there's no way we will know if this is true or not.  It probably is but that's by no means certain.

Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com


I don't get the impression they take quite that position.  However, I have seen multiple people express an opinion close to it:

1)  False rape doesn't matter so long as real rape is more frequent than false rape.  They don't accept the basic premise of our legal system that's better for the guilty to walk than the innocent to go to jail.

2)  A woman who isn't crazy doesn't lie about it.  Thus her accusation is enough to convict barring an ironclad alibi.

Also, anyone who argues against this position must be a misogynist.

Corvus: So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?


Because our legal system is based on a presumption of innocence.   That's what this garbage is about--avoiding the pesky innocent until proven guilty bit.

Mikey1969: Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.


The problem cases are he-said/she-said.  That's not what you are describing.

hardinparamedic: As someone who has been falsely accused of rape and blackmailed over the situation in the past when he was 19, he's full of shiat. False rape accusations do occur - however, they are the rare exception rather than the rule of reporting. In addition, while it is a destructive way to try to ruin someone's life, it is exceptionally rare, with questionable reporting encompassing around 4.6 to 6% of all reported rapes, and false reporting definitively identified in <1% of rape reports.


The lowest reasonable number I have seen is 8%--and I think that number must be low because by it's nature it would not count any case where the cops convinced her not to file a false report.

Khellendros: Using your above list:

1) Children can't be consenting parties. Duh. Nearly 100% of cases are males as the perpetrator.
2) Was there a threat involved? If so, one party wasn't freely consenting. Typically male pepetrator, but some females as well.
3) Define "pressure". Too vague to evaluate.
4) "Expectations" are not rape. Sex with a non-consenting person is rape. The example cites males as the perpetrator.
5) Non consenting party, again. Duh. The example itself cites males as the perpetrator.
6) Not medically necessary? Duh again.


#2 and #3 are really two points on a range, not separate items.  And it depends on the nature of the threat whether it's rape or not.  "If you don't have sex with me I'm leaving" is not rape even if it's a pretty serious threat to her (she has no job or money.)

Theaetetus: From the very first line on that page: "Our definition of rape is broader than most conventional or legal definitions."


Exactly.  That's where the high number of rapes come from.

lollipops: The police and campus nurse were exacerbated because they said there was nothing I could do and basically treated me like I was making it up (because I was too afraid and embarrassed to get prompt medical attention and only went when I wasn't healing).


There is nothing they could do.  If you want to get the guy convicted you need to report it promptly.

Ivan the Tolerable: there is a difference between cases that actually went to court of law, and all the claims that came through their center for help. they obviously got a whole lot of claims that never went anywhere, or that the police would not touch with a ten-foot pole. often times calls were from women requesting the centers help to force the police to act on a claim 'the police were ignoring', and when they checked it was almost invariably that the police had actually investigated and found it didn't have the credibility to pass the sniff test.
i would hope that the false claims actually making it to criminal charges would be winnowed down to single-digit numbers, but the claims made in anger, either for attention, to throw blame for infidelity elsewhere, or whatever, are very much higher.


Yeah, when these threads come along there's usually somebody like you that either was in the trenches or was close with someone who did--I hear the same basic pattern repeatedly.  The false claim rate is high but most get promptly weeded out by the police.

Unfortunately, the schools aren't doing that weeding.
 
2014-07-09 11:21:52 PM

Brostorm: Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!


This is terrifying. Are you actually insane? Did you actually type this?

Does anyone actually agree with this monster?


Well - it is the realist view.

Just accept that any interaction you have as a male with a female (hookup, date, live with, marry, procreate with) is done under the condition that they hold a loaded gun against your head and can pull the trigger at any time if you fail to keep them sufficiently amused.

Once you realize that is the underlying legal framework that is been carefully crafted, then everything else falls into place.
 
2014-07-09 11:28:22 PM

zzrhardy: Brostorm: Ishkur: Elliot8654: So if we suck at sex, we may get accused of rape.

Depends on the woman, but I wouldn't put it past her. Are you willing to take that chance?

See, here's where you and MRAs fail so hard: You think it's easier to get the women to change, and you're actively lobbying for that on the Internet. But I think it's much easier to just change yourselves. Worried about false rape accusations? Don't give her any reasons to falsely accuse you of rape. A satisfying night of excellent sex is the best safeguard against morning after awkwardness (in fact, if anything, the morning after should be more sex). If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to get her there, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Take responsibility!


This is terrifying. Are you actually insane? Did you actually type this?

Does anyone actually agree with this monster?

Well - it is the realist view.

Just accept that any interaction you have as a male with a female (hookup, date, live with, marry, procreate with) is done under the condition that they hold a loaded gun against your head and can pull the trigger at any time if you fail to keep them sufficiently amused.

Once you realize that is the underlying legal framework that is been carefully crafted, then everything else falls into place.


Thankfully, not all want or abuse that privledge, and most women aren't that malicious.
 
2014-07-09 11:37:08 PM

sinisterben: Thankfully, not all want or abuse that privledge, and most women aren't that malicious.


Most people aren't malicious people 100% of the time, but most people are capable of being malicious at some time.  And it only has to happen once to completely fark over another persons entire life.
 
2014-07-09 11:40:50 PM
Wow.  When I was in college, we went to class, drank and farked.

You guys are over-thinking this thing.
 
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