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(New York Sun)   1) Write byzantine sex-assault regulations for colleges 2) Accept high-dollar job helping colleges evade byzantine sex-assault regulations 3) Profit 4) Repeat   ( nysun.com) divider line
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7148 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 3:04 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-09 03:44:48 PM  

Khellendros: I don't think it's happening more, it's just finally being treated as unacceptable behavior and a brighter light is being put on it.


Why not both?
 
2014-07-09 03:45:12 PM  

Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?


Because it is a principle of our justice system that it is better that a guilty person go free than an innocent person be imprisoned.
 
2014-07-09 03:45:37 PM  

Mikey1969: Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.

Did I move on to the bonus round?


Was your mother raped on campus and was the accused not thrown out of college?

No?

Then it's not germane to the discussion.
 
2014-07-09 03:45:59 PM  

Ishkur: JackieRabbit: Younger farkers: is or was rape a problem at your school?

I think what's happening is guys are getting douchier and douchier in relationships, so it may be time to address the growing influence that Redtube and Bangbus and all the legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic, selfish and demanding.

So girls: Please understand the difference between rape and just having awful sex with a douchebag. The latter is not rape but do try to avoid both if you can, and stay safe.

And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. Be gentle, talk to her, appeal to her needs, kiss her all over (yes, even her hoo-ha), make her come at least once, and snuggle -- before and after. And don't make ANY demands or unreasonable expectations. If she doesn't want to go down on you, don't force her. It's not about you. She's a human being, not a human-sized fleshlight.


There were roughly 80 years in all of human history when women weren't treated as breathing fleshlights
 
2014-07-09 03:46:08 PM  

JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.


Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.
 
2014-07-09 03:47:28 PM  

Ishkur: Elliot8654: So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".

No -- do these things if you don't want to be accused of rape. Or just have a rumor going around her friends that you suck in bed. Up to you.


Wait??

So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?

What's next? "Well he was asking for it. He didn't cuddle."

Seriously, no. You get accused of rape when you have Sex with someone when they say no and don't want it. Not when you don't do it the way they like it.
 
2014-07-09 03:48:20 PM  

thaduke: To be fair, if these regulations were actually 'Byzantine', they would involve gouging someone's eyes out, or cutting off their nose/tongue, and being unbelievably arrogant and superior.  Oh, and being very fickle and combative about your particular version of Christianity.


And then sitting back as Italians and Turks gang-rape you repeatedly...
 
2014-07-09 03:48:32 PM  

Mikey1969: so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases


the problem was not the rape.  the problem was that your mom had a farking psycho for a boyfriend.
 
2014-07-09 03:48:55 PM  

ikanreed: JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.


I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?
 
2014-07-09 03:49:21 PM  

Elliot8654: Ishkur: Elliot8654: So yeah. That last paragraph;

"Here guys, here is a list of things you should do even if you don't want to. But if a girl doesn't want to do something, too bad".

No -- do these things if you don't want to be accused of rape. Or just have a rumor going around her friends that you suck in bed. Up to you.

Wait??

So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?

What's next? "Well he was asking for it. He didn't cuddle."

Seriously, no. You get accused of rape when you have Sex with someone when they say no and don't want it. Not when you don't do it the way they like it.


Well, anything is possible, but that's a fictionalized scenario that is so improbable and so out of line with how actual rape accusations work, than you can tell it's the paranoid fantasy of deluded mind.
 
2014-07-09 03:49:51 PM  

Corvus: JackieRabbit: I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Yeah what is with that. Women all of a sudden now think that when they are completely drunk or passed out and a guy takes advantage of her, have sex with him it's rape!

Can you believe it!

/You're an idiot.


That's not what I am talking about. Yeah, farking a passed out woman is rape. No one in their right mind is going to deny this. However, one school I recently read about has a plan to put a new regulation in place. If two people have consensual sex, but the woman has been drinking - not drunk and passed out - just drinking, the man is guilty of rape. The woman can argue that she consented all she wants, but it makes no difference. This is just not right.

Ant: Define rape


I think this is the problem. We keep redefining what it means for someone to be raped. To me, forceable sexual contact without consent is most assuredly rape. Drugging someone so that they cannot say no or repel the advance is rape. Coercing someone who does not have the mental capacity to consent is also rape. Getting a bit too drunk at a frat party and having sex with a guy you would not normally have sex with and then having "buyer's remorse" is not rape. It's stupid, but it isn't rape.

When we denigrate what rape is, we do a great disservice to those people who actually are raped.
 
2014-07-09 03:49:55 PM  

worlddan: ikanreed: JesusJuice: Passed out is not the same as drunk. Drunk people can consent, passed out people cannot.

Except, of course, to contracts, financial deals, weddings, and basically every other class of thing consent if legally required for.  Then suddenly it's too big a deal to just let slide.

I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?


Exempt from financial deals because you were drunk?

I need to sue to get back every bar tab I ever paid!!!
 
2014-07-09 03:50:06 PM  

worlddan: I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/laws-legal-contracts-mental-impairmen t- 61128.html

Ready and waiting with the contract cite.
 
2014-07-09 03:50:24 PM  

Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.


No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.
 
2014-07-09 03:51:02 PM  

ikanreed: worlddan: I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/laws-legal-contracts-mental-impairmen t- 61128.html

Ready and waiting with the contract cite.


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/laws-legal-contracts-mental-impairmen t- 61128.html

And let's follow that up with an annulment cite for Texas, in particular.
 
2014-07-09 03:52:07 PM  

JackieRabbit: Corvus: JackieRabbit: I haven't found much concrete about this phenomenon, but the ways that colleges are dealing with it or planning to deal with it pretty much tells the tale: they want to limit or ban alcohol from on-campus functions. This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape. Or is something else going on?

Yeah what is with that. Women all of a sudden now think that when they are completely drunk or passed out and a guy takes advantage of her, have sex with him it's rape!

Can you believe it!

/You're an idiot.

That's not what I am talking about. Yeah, farking a passed out woman is rape. No one in their right mind is going to deny this. However, one school I recently read about has a plan to put a new regulation in place. If two people have consensual sex, but the woman has been drinking - not drunk and passed out - just drinking, the man is guilty of rape. The woman can argue that she consented all she wants, but it makes no difference. This is just not right.


Oh sorry that's not what your talking about? Because that's exactly what you said. You just said if the woman get's drunk it's still not rape. You just said that. Now you are pretending that's not what you said.
 
2014-07-09 03:52:10 PM  
Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit
 
2014-07-09 03:52:31 PM  

Elliot8654: Exempt from financial deals because you were drunk?

I need to sue to get back every bar tab I ever paid!!!


Oh, look, scale and situation matters(guess what courts do with rape cases, really!).  You buy a house while drunk?  Even if you pay cash, it can be invalidated as a transaction.
 
2014-07-09 03:53:18 PM  

Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.

No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.


Agreed.
Except the small problem where when the case is dismissed, the guy still gets run out of town.
Last time I checked, rape is illegal. No one at all is saying it shouldn't be, and I'd you think they are, you are an imbecile.
 
2014-07-09 03:53:42 PM  

JackieRabbit: That's not what I am talking about.


Funny then some one must have stolen your account because you said so here:

JackieRabbit: This suggests to me me that it is the same-old-same-old: the kiddies get drunk, the girl farks a guy or guys (with some persuasion or not), she either is or fears being slut-shamed and cries rape.


You said right there that if the girl is drunk it's not rape. You said that.
 
2014-07-09 03:53:47 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit


You just made it proportionally fuller of them.  But have a nice day, you shouldn't suffer just because the rest of us struggle futilely to fix their broken ideological systems.
 
2014-07-09 03:54:16 PM  

Elliot8654: So if I don't go down on a girl and if I don't feel like cuddling, she may accuse me of rape?


No, she'll accuse you of being an awful douchebag who's bad in bed (which you probably are as evidenced by your resistance), and that may be worse.

If you want to get to homeplate you have to round the bases. And to do that, you have to learn how to hit the damn ball.

Practice on a peach.
 
2014-07-09 03:54:40 PM  

Elliot8654: Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.

No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.

Agreed.
Except the small problem where when the case is dismissed, the guy still gets run out of town.
Last time I checked, rape is illegal. No one at all is saying it shouldn't be, and I'd you think they are, you are an imbecile.


People in this very thread are saying that if woman is drunk and a guy has sex with her that shouldn't be considered rape.

They are in this thread right here.
 
2014-07-09 03:55:30 PM  

ikanreed: Elliot8654: Exempt from financial deals because you were drunk?

I need to sue to get back every bar tab I ever paid!!!

Oh, look, scale and situation matters(guess what courts do with rape cases, really!).  You buy a house while drunk?  Even if you pay cash, it can be invalidated as a transaction.


Do they imprison the person who sold you the house?
They did take advantage of you.
No?
Then how about we agree that rape should be handled differently than buying a car.
 
2014-07-09 03:56:14 PM  

ikanreed: worlddan: I'm never heard of a court invalidating either a wedding or a contract because the person was drunk when they signed the paper. You have some case citation on that point?

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/laws-legal-contracts-mental-impairmen t- 61128.html

Ready and waiting with the contract cite.


Being drunk is not equal to having a  mental impairment. The legal definition of DWI in my state .08.  Such a person is legally drunk. They can't legally drive a car but they can legally sign a contract. Now is it possible for someone to be so drunk that the cannot comprehend what they are doing? Yes. But not every case of drunkenness is equal to mental impairment.
 
2014-07-09 03:56:18 PM  

Elliot8654: Do they imprison the person who sold you the house?
They did take advantage of you.
No?
Then how about we agree that rape should be handled differently than buying a car.


It can sure as hell result in prison time if they intentionally got you drunk first, yes.

That's fraud, bro.
 
2014-07-09 03:57:49 PM  

Ishkur: And guys: Please stop being selfish douchebags in bed. Online porn is just a fantasy and not in any way resembling how you should actually treat a girl. ...It's not about you. ...


wait what? what about the girls that like some of the shiat you see online? you're missing out.


/good times.
 
2014-07-09 03:58:16 PM  

worlddan: Being drunk is not equal to having a mental impairment. The legal definition of DWI in my state .08. Such a person is legally drunk. They can't legally drive a car but they can legally sign a contract. Now is it possible for someone to be so drunk that the cannot comprehend what they are doing? Yes. But not every case of drunkenness is equal to mental impairment.


A person who is using drugs or alcohol could be temporarily impaired. Signing a contract with a supplier while you're out drinking might be one such situation where this issue could arise.

From the cite I just gave.  It is totally a possible reason to annul a contract.
 
2014-07-09 03:58:21 PM  

Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.

No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.

Agreed.
Except the small problem where when the case is dismissed, the guy still gets run out of town.
Last time I checked, rape is illegal. No one at all is saying it shouldn't be, and I'd you think they are, you are an imbecile.

People in this very thread are saying that if woman is drunk and a guy has sex with her that shouldn't be considered rape.

They are in this thread right here.


I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.
But if she is drunk, and she is peeling my clothes off...
I'd I tell her to stop and she won't, who is raping who?
 
2014-07-09 03:59:40 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Oh Jesus this thread is full of MRAs.

/quit


Oh, they've been plastering these on college campuses.

manboobz.files.wordpress.com

And, in the event someone wants to say they don't, here's AVfM's Paul Elam in his own words:

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks ...  paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m..  Sometimes both of these women end up being the "victims" of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won't change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING biatch - PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
 
2014-07-09 03:59:46 PM  

ikanreed: How, about we accept that the justice system already takes the idea of false rape accusations too seriously, by a measurable and objective margin?

I get the MRAs like being oppressed, but every time they open their mouths about it, they're wrong.  You get to be wrong today.

But, still, we're listening for your non-misogynistic-and-pro-rape solution to this "problem" that's so common.


If it wasn't for me providing helpful opposition, this would be a bro-fest high fiving each other and wanking over their desired mob justice.

Despite this, I am not going to admit to playing devil's advocate because actually I can see the problem with both sides of this issue.

Other things that you say are the topic of some other thread. I will try to stay on point if you do the same.
 
2014-07-09 04:01:08 PM  

Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.
But if she is drunk, and she is peeling my clothes off...
I'd I tell her to stop and she won't, who is raping who?


You mean when the other person doesn't see themselves as having been taken advantage of, it's not exactly the same?

Whoa.

You mean, in spite of the fact that you did that, no one came and arrested you, because rape accusations aren't random and coming from nowhere?

Whoa.
 
2014-07-09 04:02:00 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Mikey1969: Ooooh!! I know! Women have falsely accused men of assault and rape before, so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases all of the ACTUAL attacks.

Did I move on to the bonus round?

Was your mother raped on campus and was the accused not thrown out of college?

No?

Then it's not germane to the discussion.


It IS because you are trying to use SOME false claims to throw the data out the window. I pointed to another example that even includes rape and assault. I bet I can find someone who was wrongly convicted of rape and murder and had a lot more happen than just getting kicked out of college if you'd like.

Some people making false claims doesn't let real offenders off of the hook, sorry.


frepnog: Mikey1969: so that means that I really didn't watch my mother get raped and beaten to death by her boyfriend when I was 5 because 1 false accusations erases

the problem was not the rape.  the problem was that your mom had a farking psycho for a boyfriend.


Guy was a farking psycho, that's for sure. I managed to forget a LOT of the time before I was 5, but I still have memories of that motherfarker blowing up. I think he's still here in town, although he's pushing 70 now. I've debated if I should pay him a less than friendly visit, but so far, I've decided that it's not worth it.
 
2014-07-09 04:02:09 PM  

Corvus: Oh sorry that's not what your talking about? Because that's exactly what you said. You just said if the woman get's drunk it's still not rape. You just said that. Now you are pretending that's not what you said.


I said nothing of the sort. I said having consensual sex while drunk is not rape. To suggest that just because one is drunk one cannot grant consent is absurd. Using that logic, if one is drunk and asks for a ride home, one can later claim to have been kidnapped.

So you are saying that if a married woman gets drunk, seduces, and has sex with her husband/boyfriend/whatever, he raped her? Being drunk will lower one's inhibitions and may lead them to do things they would not normally do. Sometimes this is consenting to have sex with someone you wouldn't normally have sex with. Having consensual sex with a guy and then accusing him of rape just because you were drunk is reprehensible and immoral.

But I can see that my serious question has brought out the Internet morons who do not know reason when they see it. So I leave this thread to the trolls.
 
2014-07-09 04:02:34 PM  
Damn, fark has just been inundated with MRA derp lately.
 
2014-07-09 04:03:22 PM  

ikanreed: worlddan: Being drunk is not equal to having a mental impairment. The legal definition of DWI in my state .08. Such a person is legally drunk. They can't legally drive a car but they can legally sign a contract. Now is it possible for someone to be so drunk that the cannot comprehend what they are doing? Yes. But not every case of drunkenness is equal to mental impairment.

A person who is using drugs or alcohol could be temporarily impaired. Signing a contract with a supplier while you're out drinking might be one such situation where this issue could arise.

From the cite I just gave.  It is totally a possible reason to annul a contract.


The key word in that sentence is "could". It only speaks to ability, not to certainty. In fact, getting a contract annulled for any such reasons is exceptionally rare. Now back to my orginal question: where are your court citations? See, court citations are not about what is hypothetically possible but about what actually happened. Come back to me in a year or two after you've researched the issue on Lexis with real cases where real contracts were voided because the person was really drunk when they signed them.  Good Luck.
 
2014-07-09 04:03:26 PM  

hardinparamedic: And, in the event someone wants to say they don't, here's AVfM's Paul Elam in his own words:

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks ... paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the "victims" of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won't change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING biatch - PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.


This is no different from the interviews I've read with convicted serial rapists.  They frame things exactly the same way.
 
2014-07-09 04:04:57 PM  

hardinparamedic: I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks ... paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the "victims" of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won't change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING biatch - PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.


Holy crap.  That's the most disturbing thing I've read in quite a while.
 
2014-07-09 04:04:57 PM  

ikanreed: Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.
But if she is drunk, and she is peeling my clothes off...
I'd I tell her to stop and she won't, who is raping who?

You mean when the other person doesn't see themselves as having been taken advantage of, it's not exactly the same?

Whoa.

You mean, in spite of the fact that you did that, no one came and arrested you, because rape accusations aren't random and coming from nowhere?

Whoa.


Both drunk and made a bad decision. Can I charge her with rape too?

Why is it everyone is always totally one sided?
If a woman wants equality, fine. We are all equally responsible for our actions.
 
2014-07-09 04:06:32 PM  

JackieRabbit: I can tell you with no reservation whatsoever that rape was NEVER tolerated when I attended college a quarter-centry ago. So don't give me the "it isn't tolerated now the way it once was." Because this is a myth; it never happened.


It happened - it just wasn't reported, there weren't large support and legal movements to ensure it was publicized and punished, and there weren't massive support networks stretching across the country to assist victims and compile statistics on the subject.  Universities look bad when this comes to light.

And at your school, I'm willing to bet drunken parties were happening every other night.  And at those parties, I'm sure there were women who were taken advantage of while in an unconscious or semi-conscious state - during or after that party.  Sometimes with forethought by the men, sometimes the opportunity presented itself and was taken.  And for 20 years, the women and men involved make up excuses like "I was drunk, it just happened", or "I had no idea it happened until the next day", or 20 other excuses that are painted for it.  They gather up their clothes, go home, and try to forget about it.

The tolerance level for that has dropped in recent years.  It's no longer an issue of "we were drunk".  That was used to excuse things.  Now, the question is "did she consent?"  Lucid, able to form coherent thought and clear intent.

If the answer isn't an unqualified "yes", then, sir, you have a serious farking problem.
 
2014-07-09 04:06:49 PM  
Congrats, subby.  Your high school English teacher will be proud you finally got to use it in a sentence.
 
2014-07-09 04:08:17 PM  

Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.


So you ARE a douchebag who's awful in bed. I called it.

Get better at pleasing her and you won't have those awkward chats. If the girl feels self-conscious the morning after (or grabs her things and leaves before you wake up and does the walk of shame), you farked up. You are terrible at sex.

But at least you're not a rapist.
 
2014-07-09 04:10:05 PM  

worlddan: The key word in that sentence is "could". It only speaks to ability, not to certainty. In fact, getting a contract annulled for any such reasons is exceptionally rare. Now back to my orginal question: where are your court citations? See, court citations are not about what is hypothetically possible but about what actually happened. Come back to me in a year or two after you've researched the issue on Lexis with real cases where real contracts were voided because the person was really drunk when they signed them. Good Luck.


I reject your oddly specific demand as unnecessary.  Legal summaries are all that's necessary for backing up a reasonable claim.

It reflects a denialist position, rather than an actual position.  You assert an arbitrary threshold for evidence in a conversational debate, and supply no evidence of any sort to back your own position.  It reflects a laziness and inevitable intransigence if your arbitrary level were met.  Sorry, you're complete shiat.


Elliot8654: Both drunk and made a bad decision. Can I charge her with rape too?


If you felt taken advantage of, yes.   Christ, this isn't actually hard.  If you had taken advantage of her state the fact that you were drunk wouldn't have been an excuse, and vice versa is also true.

You're trying to builda fictional fantasy where women are constantly out to get you.
 
2014-07-09 04:10:56 PM  

Elliot8654: Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Elliot8654: Corvus: Because People in power are Stupid: An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

3.bp.blogspot.com

So why doesn't that work both ways?

Why do we have to repeal the laws so that more men get off legitimating raping women on the basis that some women make false allegations?

So one way or another someone's life gets ruined when rape claims occur.

The rape happened:the woman is scarred for life.
The rape didn't happen: the guy essentially has to try to restart his life elsewhere.

No you have courts judge if the evidence says someone is guilty or not. You don't just make it legal to rape women.

Agreed.
Except the small problem where when the case is dismissed, the guy still gets run out of town.
Last time I checked, rape is illegal. No one at all is saying it shouldn't be, and I'd you think they are, you are an imbecile.

People in this very thread are saying that if woman is drunk and a guy has sex with her that shouldn't be considered rape.

They are in this thread right here.

I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.
But if she is drunk, and she is peeling my clothes off...
I'd I tell her to stop and she won't, who is raping who?


But your not trying to say the laws are changed right to make them more restrictive? You just said no one in this thread was doing it. You are 100% ok with the rape laws how they are written?
 
2014-07-09 04:11:27 PM  

worlddan: monoski: Really $150k a year salary is called profiteering???

Well, that was one way to out yourself as part of the 1%. Nice. job.



Well, no.  That's not an unusual salary for an experienced lawyer, and it's nowhere near being part of the 1%.
 
2014-07-09 04:11:56 PM  

Elliot8654: If she is incapable of giving consent, then yeah, rape.


Isn't "being drunk" usually imply incapable of giving consent?
 
2014-07-09 04:12:23 PM  

Ishkur: Elliot8654: I've had drunken Sex with girls before. The next day we have an awkward chat, age that wasn't the smartest idea, and go on our way.

So you ARE a douchebag who's awful in bed. I called it.

Get better at pleasing her and you won't have those awkward chats. If the girl feels self-conscious the morning after (or grabs her things and leaves before you wake up and does the walk of shame), you farked up. You are terrible at sex.

But at least you're not a rapist.


so in the reverse, if I'm really good at sex, is it not rape now?

She regrets it if it wasn't good?

Damn you really must have led a sheltered life and not made any mistakes. Or maybe you have no idea who I am or what my Sex life has been like, but feel free to judge.
 
2014-07-09 04:13:15 PM  
ikanreed:

It reflects a denialist position, rather than an actual position.  You assert an arbitrary threshold for evidence in a conversational debate, and supply no evidence of any sort to back your own position.  It reflects a laziness and inevitable intransigence if your arbitrary level were met.  Sorry, you're complete shiat.

LOL. Now there is a pouty face translated into words. It actualy takes some craft to do that, so good for you.
 
2014-07-09 04:14:25 PM  

Raoul Eaton: worlddan: monoski: Really $150k a year salary is called profiteering???

Well, that was one way to out yourself as part of the 1%. Nice. job.


Well, no.  That's not an unusual salary for an experienced lawyer, and it's nowhere near being part of the 1%.


So you going to defend greed on the basis of being out of touch? Niiiiiice.
 
2014-07-09 04:14:55 PM  

JackieRabbit: I said nothing of the sort. I said having consensual sex while drunk is not rape. To suggest that just because one is drunk one cannot grant consent is absurd. Using that logic, if one is drunk and asks for a ride home, one can later claim to have been kidnapped.


Altered states are a gray area.
If there's already a relationship between the two people, and if this problem matters to them, they often will have talked about their boundaries.

If there's not... how impaired is the other person? If they're to the point where they have marked difficulty speaking clearly or walking straight, the judgment center of their brain is proper farked (and their memory may not be "recording"). They are walking robots, of a sort. That's generally the level of drunk that people mean when they talk about drunk consent, not "tipsy and merry and bolder than usual".

Being fooled around with while you're stumbling blackout drunk is not a good experience, at all. If it's not rape (and there are good arguments that it is), it's really farking creepy. And yeah, that's regardless of the perpetrator's gender.
 
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