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(Slate)   Your 2022 Winter Olympics may be in trouble when no one wants to host it except China and Kazakhstan   (slate.com) divider line 44
    More: Amusing, Krakow, Olympic Committee, Almaty  
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1035 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jul 2014 at 11:30 AM (2 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-09 09:19:53 AM
Hold the "last chance to see" Winter Olympiad at the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. Wikipedia says 2022 is the last guaranteed snow capped year.
 
2014-07-09 09:55:34 AM
Why the reluctance to put on the Winter Olympics? Here's one pretty good reason for most countries: the Sochi Games cost Russia some $51 billion to host. The "winner" of the 2022 Games will be announced next July.

To be fair, a big reason that Sochi was so expensive is because 1. there was a lot of infrastructure that needed to be constructed in Sochi (stadia, roads, etc.) and 2. kickbacks.

Oslo's hosted before (granted, in 1952), has existing infrastructure, and Norway has an excellent human rights record.
 
2014-07-09 10:10:39 AM
At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.
 
2014-07-09 11:34:04 AM
fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net

We'll take it.
 
2014-07-09 11:34:37 AM
What do human rights records have to do with hosting Olympics?
 
2014-07-09 11:36:19 AM
Let sochi have it again
 
2014-07-09 11:36:45 AM

ZAZ: Hold the "last chance to see" Winter Olympiad at the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. Wikipedia says 2022 is the last guaranteed snow capped year.


Hopefully, they'll finish the bridge between the peaks before then.
 
2014-07-09 11:39:35 AM
"No matter which city is awarded the Winter Olympics, these games will forever be known as the one no one wanted to host,"

Oh, it's not like they've never had that problem before. It just hasn't happened in a while.
 
2014-07-09 11:41:18 AM
pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-07-09 11:45:41 AM
So what's the problem?  China could host it without breaking a sweat.

Human rights have fark-all to do with the IOC selection process.  Isn't that obvious to everyone by now?  It's not even a factor.

I am slightly disappointed that we are likely looking at at least three straight Winter Olympics outside of the Western Hemisphere.  I don't like having to get up in the pre-dawn hours to watch Olympic hockey (or having it on in the middle of the workday).

But that disappointment is tempered somewhat by the likely revival of the World Cup of Hockey starting in 2016 as a regular event.  I expect that tournament to be at least as high-quality and compelling as the Olympic Hockey tournament.
 
2014-07-09 11:45:48 AM

Paris1127: Why the reluctance to put on the Winter Olympics? Here's one pretty good reason for most countries: the Sochi Games cost Russia some $51 billion to host. The "winner" of the 2022 Games will be announced next July.


The Sochi games cost $51 billion because A) After Athens, the IOC started making a big production over sustainability and using existing infrastructure/venues, then chose a city with no venues, no infrastructure, and no snow for the Winter Olympics, and B) Sochi is in a country that's synonymous with corruption and organized crime.  Those games cost at least 5 times what they should have in any other civilized country.

tl;dr: The IOC is corrupt
 
2014-07-09 11:49:39 AM
Split the events between Calgary (1988), Vancouver (2010) and Salt Lake City (2002). Pretty much all of the infrastructure is already in place and all three put on good events. Have the opening ceremony in Vancouver and the closing ceremony in SLC.
 
2014-07-09 11:50:31 AM
You can't leave the Olympic Village empty until you get the games again. Where do you build more housing?
 
2014-07-09 11:52:57 AM
It's just a bad idea to host the Olympics.

// I was very glad when DC was pulled out of the running
// it's enough of a clusterfark on normal days; if we hosted, traffic wouldn't move for a month, and Metro would have chains of people Marty-McFlying the trains
 
2014-07-09 11:53:42 AM

slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.


Yeah, I think  Lake Placid (though 34 years removed from the games) would be fine.

Infrastructure is already there, it's cold as shiat in upstate NY during the winter, and security will probably not be atrocious unless some home grown bomber tries something stupid.
 
2014-07-09 11:54:19 AM

Dr Dreidel: It's just a bad idea to host the Olympics.

// I was very glad when DC was pulled out of the running
// it's enough of a clusterfark on normal days; if we hosted, traffic wouldn't move for a month, and Metro would have chains of people Marty-McFlying the trains


How could DC host it anyway?  There's no mountains anywhere around, and the climate isn't nearly cold enough.
 
2014-07-09 11:54:43 AM

Dr Dreidel: It's just a bad idea to host the Olympics.



completely true, but won't someone think of the children of the servents of the ioc members.  without the bribes who will feed those children.
 
2014-07-09 11:57:14 AM

Doc Daneeka: Dr Dreidel: It's just a bad idea to host the Olympics.

// I was very glad when DC was pulled out of the running
// it's enough of a clusterfark on normal days; if we hosted, traffic wouldn't move for a month, and Metro would have chains of people Marty-McFlying the trains

How could DC host it anyway?  There's no mountains anywhere around, and the climate isn't nearly cold enough.


DC is well known for its slippery slopes.
 
2014-07-09 11:58:26 AM

slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.


and the money for kickbacks for "infrastructure" construction is where in your plan?
 
2014-07-09 11:58:27 AM

slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.


If only this were true.  Most of the venues cities are forced to build for the games goes unused after.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie =U TF-8#q=abandoned+olympic+venues
 
2014-07-09 12:05:28 PM

hugh chardon: slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.

If only this were true.  Most of the venues cities are forced to build for the games goes unused after.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie =U TF-8#q=abandoned+olympic+venues


Yeah, I'm aware of that...seen a lot of those pics.  But it would be less expensive to upgrade/repair than to build from scratch.

It's just a hugely expensive undertaking...especially if you're building from scratch.
 
2014-07-09 12:05:37 PM

Doc Daneeka: Dr Dreidel: It's just a bad idea to host the Olympics.

// I was very glad when DC was pulled out of the running
// it's enough of a clusterfark on normal days; if we hosted, traffic wouldn't move for a month, and Metro would have chains of people Marty-McFlying the trains

How could DC host it anyway?  There's no mountains anywhere around, and the climate isn't nearly cold enough.


I think it was a Summer Games bid.

However, just to indulge the argument, if they held the games in late January/early February (which I think they do) and got lucky with the weather (not even all Polar Vortex-y like this year), they could hold it in the DC-Columbia-Baltimore corridor. There are mountains about 90 minutes away, in Southern PA (White Tail, etc), or 120-150 minutes away in Massanutten.

// and here's where West Coasters call our mountains "cute"
// you wouldn't say that if we jammed them up your ass!
// lighthearted joke, people
 
2014-07-09 12:22:01 PM
DC's bid is for the 2024 Summer games, and it's still active, with a good chance of becoming the US bid.

And the Olympics aren't always a bad thing for cities. Just depends on execution. The Winter Games are a lot harder to pull off than the Summer Games, though, even if it's not such a monumentally stupid approach as Sochi. They require a lot of single purpose venues- the tracks, the ski jumps, and so on, which can't be repurposed. Unless you do what Lake Placid did and turn yourself into a winter sports training destination, all those venues just go to waste.

With the DC bid, for example, all the big money stuff is in place or being planned already. Stadiums- Nationals Park, Fed Ex, the RFK replacement, the new Soccer stadium. DC already has the hotel and transportation infrastructure needed (which needs an upgrade anyway, and the Olympics are a great excuse to build a few new metro lines). Basically, the only major project needed is an athletes village. And in a city with a profound housing crisis, it shouldn't be too hard to find a use for such a thing after the olympics.

You can pull off the olympics in a sustainable way. London did. Vancouver did. Salt Lake City did. Sochi didn't, but Putin cared less about sustainability than he did showmanship anyway.
 
2014-07-09 12:24:43 PM

hugh chardon: slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.

If only this were true.  Most of the venues cities are forced to build for the games goes unused after.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie =U TF-8#q=abandoned+olympic+venues


Those articles are generally pictures from just two cities- Athens and Sarajevo. They're not exactly a representative sample- they're extreme cases.
 
2014-07-09 12:24:58 PM
Colorado is a strong choice, but since we turned down the IOC in the 70's, they still have a case of the red arse.
 
2014-07-09 12:26:11 PM

mainstreet62: slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.

Yeah, I think  Lake Placid (though 34 years removed from the games) would be fine.

Infrastructure is already there, it's cold as shiat in upstate NY during the winter, and security will probably not be atrocious unless some home grown bomber tries something stupid.


Transportation for spectators in Lake Placid were a total clusterfark back in 1980, and attendance at the Winter Games is much larger than it was 34 years ago. Lake Placid would be an absolute last resort.

In the age of television and increasing numbers of spectators, Lake Placid was ill-equipped to handle the demands of a modern Games. Transportation was inadequate to move the crowds, and athletes complained about the confinement of the Olympic Village, which would later be used to house juvenile offenders.

 Also, the whole "nobody wants to bid on the Winter Olympics" is not a new phenomenon; Lake Placid was the only bidder for the 1980 Games after Vancouver withdrew its bid.
 
2014-07-09 12:33:11 PM

cptjeff: With the DC bid, for example, all the big money stuff is in place or being planned already. Stadiums- Nationals Park, Fed Ex, the RFK replacement, the new Soccer stadium. DC already has the hotel and transportation infrastructure needed (which needs an upgrade anyway, and the Olympics are a great excuse to build a few new metro lines). Basically, the only major project needed is an athletes village. And in a city with a profound housing crisis, it shouldn't be too hard to find a use for such a thing after the olympics.


Which is why I'm still bitter over Chicago getting shut out.  We had hands down the best bid on a technical level.  Public transportation is in place, airports are in place, most of the venues were already in place, and the city has the right mix of palm-greasing and machine politics to get the job done.  We got boned by a direct torpedo attempt by conservatives to embarrass Obama and general anti-American sentiment at the IOC (and of course the IOC's own corruption).
 
2014-07-09 12:36:17 PM

cptjeff: hugh chardon: slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.

If only this were true.  Most of the venues cities are forced to build for the games goes unused after.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie =U TF-8#q=abandoned+olympic+venues

Those articles are generally pictures from just two cities- Athens and Sarajevo. They're not exactly a representative sample- they're extreme cases.


Athens should never have been given the games either.  They were awarded 2004 to make up for the butthurt from '96, and everyone knew going into it that they had no sustainability plan.  Sarajevo had its own extenuating circumstances, with a war and political revolution in the 90's.
 
2014-07-09 12:36:25 PM

puckrock2000: Also, the whole "nobody wants to bid on the Winter Olympics" is not a new phenomenon; Lake Placid was the only bidder for the 1980 Games after Vancouver withdrew its bid.


Nobody remembers how many bidders there were so long as the event goes off successfully.
 
2014-07-09 12:52:38 PM

shroom: general anti-American sentiment at the IOC


that'll happen when there are anti-corruption laws essentially aimed at the ioc's favorite practices.  the ioc must boycott nations who dare outlawing their business model.  i don't see the olympics coming back to america for awhile because of this.
 
2014-07-09 12:58:02 PM

cptjeff: DC's bid is for the 2024 Summer games, and it's still active, with a good chance of becoming the US bid.


media.tumblr.com

Goddamnitsomuch.

The Silver Line is opening in late July (finally), which wouldn't help an Olympiad at all (because of the peoplemoving clusterfark that is NoVA, if they held any events there no one could get there in time unless they shut down Arlington/Crystal City and Alexandria). This line has been in some form of planning for 20-odd years, just for a sense of scale, and they started building it in 2008 (construction not planned to be complete until 2018), for a low-low cost of just under $7 billion.

They haven't even decided on the route for the Purple Line yet - which would be the fix the region actually needs to host, along with an additional few thousand housing units - let alone how to build it in less than 8 years. Up, down, and sideways, this is a horrible, horrible idea.

KEEP THE OLYMPICS OUT OF DC
 
2014-07-09 01:09:58 PM

puckrock2000: Transportation for spectators in Lake Placid were a total clusterfark back in 1980, and attendance at the Winter Games is much larger than it was 34 years ago. Lake Placid would be an absolute last resort.


I think you would need to do the indoor stuff in Albany if not farther away like Syracuse in order to have a chance (the dome would be good for the ceremonies).  There's just too many sports on the docket to have those up in the mountains too.  Here's some comparisons between 1980 and 2014 in size.

Alpine - 6 medals to 10
Biathlon - 3 to 11
Bobsleigh - 2 to 3
XC Skiing - 7 to 12
Curling - new
Figure Skating - 4 to 5
Freestyle skiing - added sport with 10 medals
Ice Hockey - the ladies have joined the party
Luge - 3 to 4
Nordic Combined - 1 to 3
Short Track Speed Skating - added sport with 8 medals
Skeleton - added sport with 2 medals
Ski Jumping - 2 to 4
Snowboarding - added sport with 10 medals
Speed Skating - 9 to 12
 
2014-07-09 01:25:27 PM
I suspect that if anyone in Atlanta even hinted at bidding on the summer games again they would be forcibly tossed into the mud pits of the Redneck Games.
 
2014-07-09 01:48:46 PM

slayer199: At this point, it would be easier and less expensive for a nation that's hosted it in the last 30 years since they'd have most of the existing infrastructure in place.


I am surprised they don't start doing that, or at least start telling cities that a certain percentage of your construction has to be in place for you to be considered for a bid. That way you either have to be a city that has hosted the Olympics in the past, or a city with a strong interest in winter sports that already has things like ski jumps and bobsled tracks. That said I think having bobsled/luge in the olympics is kind of stupid, considering there are only like 17 luge tracks in the entire world. How the hell is a sport like that supposed to develop?

The other alternative would be to let regions or whole countries host the Olympics. That way you can spread the cost across a much bigger area. I mean the FIFA world cup seems to have it right, with instead of having a host city you have a host country or a pair of host countries. I mean it is a lot easier to find enough soccer stadiums to play in when you can use all of Brazil rather than forcing everything to happen in one city.
 
2014-07-09 02:02:39 PM

mechgreg: I mean it is a lot easier to find enough soccer stadiums to play in when you can use all of Brazil rather than forcing everything to happen in one city.


Soccer is allowed to use the entire country, actually. You might remember that the very first competition of the London Olympics was a soccer game in Cardiff.
 
2014-07-09 02:20:25 PM

Dr Dreidel: cptjeff: DC's bid is for the 2024 Summer games, and it's still active, with a good chance of becoming the US bid.

[media.tumblr.com image 500x345]

Goddamnitsomuch.

The Silver Line is opening in late July (finally), which wouldn't help an Olympiad at all (because of the peoplemoving clusterfark that is NoVA, if they held any events there no one could get there in time unless they shut down Arlington/Crystal City and Alexandria). This line has been in some form of planning for 20-odd years, just for a sense of scale, and they started building it in 2008 (construction not planned to be complete until 2018), for a low-low cost of just under $7 billion.

They haven't even decided on the route for the Purple Line yet - which would be the fix the region actually needs to host, along with an additional few thousand housing units - let alone how to build it in less than 8 years. Up, down, and sideways, this is a horrible, horrible idea.

KEEP THE OLYMPICS OUT OF DC


And that's before considering that the IOC would probably have the Silver Line shut down during the Games because it has the word "Silver" in its name.


/still, as far as time and money spent on line construction are concerned, could be worse
 
2014-07-09 02:20:52 PM
The problem with making it a host country and not a host city is the athletes want it to be a host city. They complained a lot in Albertville because the venues were too spread out and it didn't feel like an Olympics to them because they didn't get to mingle with the athletes from the other events very much. At some point it becomes just a bunch of individual world championships that happen to be taking place near each other and not... the Olympics.

Honestly, Sochi is a one-off. $51 billion is not the new 'floor' for how much an Olympics will cost, like I think a lot of the drop-out cities are fearing. Sochi is just what happens when a megalomaniacal guy with a small penis spares no expense in an already-corrupt nation to get enough propaganda PR under his belt to justify invading Crimea.

I'm pretty sure the IOC is behind the scenes practically begging Oslo to stay in the running so they can hand it to them. I don't think they want anything to do with China or any former Soviet nation right now. At some point even the corrupt, bribe-hungry IOC officials have to realize that if they only get one bid, they don't get any bribe money at all, and if they don't get any bids, they may have to start paying out themselves in order to keep things running. Competently-run Olympics attract bidders. Politically-charged clusterfarks drive bidders away.
 
2014-07-09 02:28:09 PM
After the spectacle of Sochi, I'd watch the shiat out of a Kazakh Olympics. Maybe after that we could get a summer games in Haiti or Somalia.
 
2014-07-09 02:32:17 PM
i think qatar wants to hold them.  bribery and lying got them the world cup, i don't see anything that could go wrong with them having the winter olympics too
 
2014-07-09 02:36:26 PM

King Something: And that's before considering that the IOC would probably have the Silver Line shut down during the Games because it has the word "Silver" in its name.


We could temporarily rename it the "Untraceable Cash Payment Line" if that would make the IOC feel more comfortable.
 
2014-07-09 03:26:57 PM
 
2014-07-09 07:08:27 PM
Colorado could probably host the entire thing without building any infrastructure as long as everyone is cool with it being held partially in Denver and partially in the mountains. And at least as it stands now, we seem to be getting more snow as it warms up (although that could just be an anomaly). Maybe, just maybe we should hold it somewhere that is actually set up for an Olympic sized event for once?

Is that really asking too much?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-09 08:05:42 PM
I-70 doesn't have Olympic class highway capacity between Denver and Vail.
 
2014-07-09 09:32:37 PM

shroom: cptjeff: With the DC bid, for example, all the big money stuff is in place or being planned already. Stadiums- Nationals Park, Fed Ex, the RFK replacement, the new Soccer stadium. DC already has the hotel and transportation infrastructure needed (which needs an upgrade anyway, and the Olympics are a great excuse to build a few new metro lines). Basically, the only major project needed is an athletes village. And in a city with a profound housing crisis, it shouldn't be too hard to find a use for such a thing after the olympics.

Which is why I'm still bitter over Chicago getting shut out.  We had hands down the best bid on a technical level.  Public transportation is in place, airports are in place, most of the venues were already in place, and the city has the right mix of palm-greasing and machine politics to get the job done.  We got boned by a direct torpedo attempt by conservatives to embarrass Obama and general anti-American sentiment at the IOC (and of course the IOC's own corruption).


The conservatives really played no part in it. The ioc REALLY wanted south america this goaround, so much so that Rio was rated the 6th out of the final 8 by their very own scoring system...but they moved them into the final four anyway.

Which just makes the bidding process that much more of a scam....why bother spending millions on a bus when the IOC has already declared a secret winner regardless of how good your plan is?
 
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