Crewmannumber6: fark LeBron
ManateeGag: I'm surprised LeBron got past 3.
mjbok: ManateeGag: I'm surprised LeBron got past 3.You would think that he would try to distance himself from anything even closely related to the decision.
mikaloyd: mjbok: ManateeGag: I'm surprised LeBron got past 3.You would think that he would try to distance himself from anything even closely related to the decision.He's good at basketball and, well , mostly he's good at basketball. Nobody ever accused him of being the sharpest tool in the shed.
mikaloyd: He's good at basketball and, well , mostly he's good at basketball. Nobody ever accused him of being the sharpest tool in the shed.
IAmRight: mikaloyd: mjbok: ManateeGag: I'm surprised LeBron got past 3.You would think that he would try to distance himself from anything even closely related to the decision.He's good at basketball and, well , mostly he's good at basketball. Nobody ever accused him of being the sharpest tool in the shed.Do you actually think he cut this himself?
mjbok: I know this isn't unique to him, but between this and Lebronning, he is not as good as he could be.
IAmRight: Again, maybe if the league allowed guys to fight it out like they used to - if LeBron were allowed to punch guys in the face and have THEM get ejected for nearly hurting his fist in retaliation for the crap pulled against him - then there wouldn't be so much flopping/exaggerating.
IAmRight: Instead you have joke teams like the Bulls fouling at half-court on every fast break instead of actually trying any transition defense because hey, why give up points if there's less of a penalty for tackling the guy at half-court?
bertor_vidas: castigate players like Bowen
skrame: Every team in the league fouls the other team at half court.
skrame: I'll give you a minute to go watch some Seattle Storm highlights.
IAmRight: bertor_vidas: castigate players like BowenWell he should be castigated because he pulled chickensh*t stuff that should've gotten him laid the f*ck out in an era where no one could lay a finger on him.
IAmRight: Again, I have nothing against Chicago. Y'all just currently have an unpleasant style of play that demeans the sport of basketball.
bertor_vidas: Players like Bird and Jordan did despicable things but are remembered with glowing reputations. In this day and age (post-Malice at the Palace), they'd have very negative reputations as "dirty" players if they did the same things. What really kills me, though, is that people talk longingly of that era of basketball in one breath and then castigate players like Bowen and Artest in the next (but not superstars like Shaq, so it's not just referees that get blinded by star power).
mjbok: Jordan was the start of the massive rules changes favoring star athletes finesse over brute strength.
bertor_vidas: What happened in the NBA was that the league decided to open things up and let finesse (or "skill" if you will) be the deciding factor rather than brute strength. That it disproportionately helped superstars is to be expected as they tend to be more skilled
bertor_vidas: While I consider his actions deplorable, I feel they were about as justified as any which have led to an NBA fight. You expect elbows in the back and other chippy play, but you generally don't expect objects flying in from the stands
lostcat: Is there supposed to be audio? I don't understand these Vine things. Half the time they don't even load.
mjbok: I disagree with this completely, especially regarding Lebron. He is far from a finesse player. He is skilled and has incredible moves, but much of what he does is through brute force with those moves. Plus the constant shoving, pushing off, etc is far from finesse.
bertor_vidas: Here's my problem with your assessment: If I describe a player who generates space by pushing off, shoving, and such or a player who bullies smaller/less physically imposing opponents or a player who viciously attacks the rim for dunks and putbacks, I could just as easily be describing Jordan. For pushing and shoving, how about The Shot/"Bulls Win!"? Jordan elbows Ehlo in the face on the previous possession and arm checks him on the last one. Or maybe you prefer the last shot of the 1998 Finals where he pushes Russel on his stop and pop. You should also keep in mind that Jordan played against Reggie Miller, Craig Ehlo, John Starks, and Joe Dumars among others. Most of them were giving up more than a few inches or a few pounds or both on Jordan, a fact he used to his advantage (watch the last play of the 1997 Finals where he manhandles Jeff Hornacek, for instance). As for plays of screaming athleticism, it's hard to top Jordan's putback of Pippen's miss versus the Blazers. Or you could go back to the play where he elbowed Ehlo. Jordan muscled past Ehlo in a manner reminiscent of James (or perhaps it's more apt to say James does it in a manner reminiscent of Jordan).It's fine and well to reduce a player's prowess to their physical tools. Both Jordan and James are the far right tail of the far right tail ad infinitum, but reducing them to just physical gifts denigrates their softer skills. Ball hawking passing lanes isn't about overpowering opponents. Spotting the open man with a higher percentage shot than you and hitting him isn't about overpowering opponents. Knocking down shots (threes in particular) isn't about overpowering opponents. I understand that simplistic and bowdlerized characterizations are rather appealing. They're certainly easier to condense into a highlight reel. It doesn't make them right./I would like to take the time to point out that Jordan was a far inferior 3 point shooter (one "finesse" test)//Excluding 1994-1997 (short 3), Jordan wa ...
mjbok: mikaloyd: He's good at basketball and, well , mostly he's good at basketball. Nobody ever accused him of being the sharpest tool in the shed.I remember reading an article about him after he had been in the league for a few years. He still wasn't the man, but was well on his way. I remember distinctly thinking that this was a guy who seemed to have his head on straight. Now, I don't think so. I don't mind the decision (though it was stupid, careless, and frankly mean), but I mind the way he handles himself on the court. He (and other stars) play with a different set of rules. He can hand check, he can hack, he can push off, but if you so much as breathe on him and a foul isn't called he acts like the world is about to end. I know this isn't unique to him, but between this and Lebronning, he is not as good as he could be.
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