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(WESH Orlando)   An eleven year-old girl scored a perfect on the FCAT   (wesh.com) divider line 80
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9791 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2014 at 12:51 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-08 09:22:00 PM
I'm sure a lot of kids were like "Ahh, FCAT."
 
2014-07-08 10:13:04 PM
Meh, it's a test specifically for 11 year olds, not the SATs or something.

http://fcat.fldoe.org/fcinfopg.asp
 
2014-07-08 10:16:36 PM
Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.
 
2014-07-08 10:42:42 PM
What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.
 
2014-07-08 10:57:53 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.


The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.
 
2014-07-08 11:02:54 PM
I got less than 50 percent on the last Fark.com easy quiz.

*Throws self off bridge*
 
2014-07-08 11:45:30 PM
The essay grading is bullshiat. I moved there and had makeup the fcat. I made 5's on my English Lit AP test and A's in English all 4 years, and got the lowest possible passing score on the essay section. All because I wrote like an AP student instead of a simpleton.
 
2014-07-08 11:46:34 PM

dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.


You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.
 
2014-07-08 11:51:49 PM

dookdookdook: grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway


As someone who grades those essays (not specifically FCAT), I'd take issue with that. There is little room for subjectivity when assigning scores. They are usually scored on a 4 or 5 point scale with a pretty clear rubric and lots of example essays with which they can be compared. The vast majority of essays submitted fit clearly into one of those score points. And each project I have worked on requires that every essay be scored by two different people.

It's not perfect, of course, but it is far from bullshiat.
 
2014-07-09 12:09:29 AM

m3000: I made 5's on my English Lit AP test and A's in English all 4 years


FCAT tests different things than the AP test, as far as I know (which is not a whole lot about either). I assume the AP tests your ability to comprehend what you read and explain it accurately. FCAT writing tests your ability to write well (organization, elaboration, sentence structure, vocabulary, mechanics). Getting As in English should mean you could do all of that well, but knowing how little is expected of students makes me think that isn't necessarily the case.
 
2014-07-09 12:22:19 AM

skinnycatullus: m3000: I made 5's on my English Lit AP test and A's in English all 4 years

FCAT tests different things than the AP test, as far as I know (which is not a whole lot about either). I assume the AP tests your ability to comprehend what you read and explain it accurately. FCAT writing tests your ability to write well (organization, elaboration, sentence structure, vocabulary, mechanics). Getting As in English should mean you could do all of that well, but knowing how little is expected of students makes me think that isn't necessarily the case.


Different groups of people grading them and likely looking for different things.  I remember back in my high school days when this standardized state testing stuff was just getting started that we had the standard 'five paragraph essay' format drilled into our heads for us on the state test because that's the format that the standards were based on.

As you mentioned the state test wasn't designed to test depth of thought or creative analysis, it was designed to test your ability to write a structured essay that was stylistically consistent with the standards, with proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

AP tests tend to be graded based on deeper analysis, strength of arguments, and showing that you have the ability to think.

One test shows that you have the ability to identify important information and regurgitate it in an organized fashion, the other shows that you have the ability to analyze something and create your own argument based on a thorough understanding of the subject matter and your own critical thinking skills.
 
2014-07-09 12:27:36 AM

syrynxx: Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.


static.comicvine.com

1989
 
2014-07-09 12:55:18 AM
Is this the first time the Florida tag has ben used for an article about someone intelligent?
 
2014-07-09 12:56:13 AM
"Scored a perfect," eh? She wouldn't have messed that up.
 
2014-07-09 01:03:37 AM

dookdookdook: Meh, it's a test specifically for 11 year olds


In Florida.
 
2014-07-09 01:04:39 AM
An eleven year-old girl scored a *purrfect on the FCAT. Meow
 
2014-07-09 01:05:33 AM
Can't be. Her name is Yazielis Ramirez. Fark commenters regularly assure me that minority kids with funny (read: non-Anglo) names can only grow up to be strippers and welfare-queen babby factories.

/s
 
2014-07-09 01:06:47 AM

brimed03: Can't be. Her name is Yazielis Ramirez. Fark commenters regularly assure me that minority kids with funny (read: non-Anglo) names can only grow up to be strippers and welfare-queen babby factories.

/s


She ain't grown up yet.
 
2014-07-09 01:08:56 AM
The answers were mostly "Were you there?"
 
2014-07-09 01:09:42 AM

doglover: dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.

You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.


fark it, haha take it off. Nobody needs to write an essay anyway. And grammar is oppressive
 
2014-07-09 01:12:01 AM
Nobody tell her she spelled 'FACT' wrong, it would break her little heart.
 
2014-07-09 01:14:21 AM
i291.photobucket.com

What an FCAT may look like
 
2014-07-09 01:19:01 AM

brimed03: Can't be. Her name is Yazielis Ramirez. Fark commenters regularly assure me that minority kids with funny (read: non-Anglo) names can only grow up to be strippers and welfare-queen babby factories.

/s


To be fair, some Anglo names are included. Braxlee, Jaydien, Brylee, Jessikate, etc.
 
2014-07-09 01:22:37 AM
Congratulations, Yazielis, on your achievement on the FCAT.

Never mind the nay sayers in this thread. You did great.
 
2014-07-09 01:31:03 AM
Scored a perfect what?
 
2014-07-09 01:33:03 AM
Good for her. Who gives a [PLEASE take a minute to review our posting rules].
 
2014-07-09 01:36:34 AM
And in ten years no one will give a fark how exceptional she is, and she'll be told to sit down and shut up and earn a living like every other serf on the planet.  And if she is capable of self-reflection at all she'll realize that
American schools treat every kid like they're awesome and special and don't even bother preparing them for the fact that no one cares about them anymore once they're adults, when suddenly it's time to take your place as a cog of the machine and get your goddamn work done.

/wish I'd known
//so much of childhood is a lie
/Good jerb kid, but just remember that the "you can be anything you want to be" line is a big ol' meadow-muffin of BS
 
2014-07-09 01:42:32 AM

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: /Good jerb kid, but just remember that the "you can be anything you want to be" line is a big ol' meadow-muffin of BS


Maybe not without a couple practicality or reality based caveats, but one day I decided I liked my hobby more than my job, and now it is my job, because I wanted it and made it happen.

Same goes for just about every other worthwhile thing I've done in my life.
 
2014-07-09 01:46:51 AM
They're coming to take our "perfect scores".
 
2014-07-09 01:49:42 AM

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: /Good jerb kid, but just remember that the "you can be anything you want to be" line is a big ol' meadow-muffin of BS


Sucks to be you. Doesn't it?
 
2014-07-09 01:53:37 AM
I own and eleven-year-old girl, so I'm getting a kick.
 
2014-07-09 01:53:58 AM

m3000: The essay grading is bullshiat. I moved there and had makeup the fcat. I made 5's on my English Lit AP test and A's in English all 4 years, and got the lowest possible passing score on the essay section. All because I wrote like an AP student instead of a simpleton.


this isn't about you.
 
2014-07-09 01:57:13 AM

dookdookdook: Meh, it's a test specifically for 11 year olds, not the SATs or something.

http://fcat.fldoe.org/fcinfopg.asp


Ah, thank you. That headline and article made it sound like this kid is Doogie Howser.
 
2014-07-09 01:58:04 AM

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: And in ten years no one will give a fark how exceptional she is, and she'll be told to sit down and shut up and earn a living like every other serf on the planet.  And if she is capable of self-reflection at all she'll realize that
American schools treat every kid like they're awesome and special and don't even bother preparing them for the fact that no one cares about them anymore once they're adults, when suddenly it's time to take your place as a cog of the machine and get your goddamn work done.

/wish I'd known
//so much of childhood is a lie
/Good jerb kid, but just remember that the "you can be anything you want to be" line is a big ol' meadow-muffin of BS


Your words are full of sadness. Maybe you should seek a different path.
 
2014-07-09 01:59:07 AM

ArkAngel: syrynxx: Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.

[static.comicvine.com image 331x433]

1989


1. That hair...

2. At least he wasn't a dick. Oh, wait--one fairly popular fan theory is that he did grow up to be a dick. A genius-level dick with serious issues, but a dick.
 
2014-07-09 02:00:36 AM

skinnycatullus: As someone who grades those essays (not specifically FCAT), I'd take issue with that. There is little room for subjectivity when assigning scores. They are usually scored on a 4 or 5 point scale with a pretty clear rubric and lots of example essays with which they can be compared. The vast majority of essays submitted fit clearly into one of those score points. And each project I have worked on requires that every essay be scored by two different people.


As someone who has taught fourth graders in Florida to write based on rubrics and sample and mock scoring from those who do score FCAT Writing, amongst the host of instructional materials and professional development on the matter, allow me to say having objective measures for scoring does not mean the scoring is any less 'bullsh*t'. While the rubric for FCAT Writing has high inter-rater reliability, the writing process needed to score high on the rubric is not a strong writing foundation to heap onto fourth graders who are often only now beginning to develop the cognitive abilities to deal with the abstraction required for narrative or informational organization. This is foremost why scoring for this one is bullsh*t.

Wonderful of this student to score high, and I mean to take nothing away from what was her second year of standardized testing in a tumultuous period of transition to Common Core State Standards (although Florida does not want to adopt them, every district went through the effort of identifying gaps in the curriculum arc between Common Core and Next Generation Sunshine State Standards), but scoring highly on this is not an achievement in writing but an achievement in being a good student. I am happy to be in a position where student scores are a tertiary concern at best.
 
2014-07-09 02:07:56 AM

doglover: dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.

You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.


Easy, scan it, spell check, and run it through a Flesch-Kinkaide readability test. Then you're grading students on their handwiriting abilities and ignoring anyone left handed or superior but sloppy.
 
2014-07-09 02:17:58 AM

syrynxx: Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.


MCAT is for doctors, LCAT is for lawyers, what is an FCAT?

/can you tell I don't have kids?
 
2014-07-09 02:20:28 AM

wildcardjack: doglover: dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.

You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.

Easy, scan it, spell check, and run it through a Flesch-Kinkaide readability test. Then you're grading students on their handwiriting abilities and ignoring anyone left handed or superior but sloppy.


Just a protip: Superior students don't hand in sloppy essays.

It just doesn't happen. Even the kid whose normal handwriting could be mistaken for some of gibberish script of the great old ones in a Lovecraft tale will turn in a reasonably legible essay if he's a good student.

The messy essays tend to be messy in structure also.

At least, that's what I find to be the case.
 
2014-07-09 02:22:43 AM

Vangor: the writing process needed to score high on the rubric is not a strong writing foundation to heap onto fourth graders who are often only now beginning to develop the cognitive abilities to deal with the abstraction required for narrative or informational organization.


I would agree with this. I'm a bit ambivalent about earning my living (or part of it, actually) by scoring these essays. I mostly wanted to dispel any notions that scoring is arbitrary... or that "good writing" somehow gets punished while formulaic, generic, "first-next-finally" writing is rewarded. You can get a passing score by writing a formula essay, but every state I've dealt with expects much more than that to reach the higher score points. And actual good writing is almost always rewarded with a high score, because it almost necessarily has the level of organization and development we are looking for.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the kids barely seem to even understand what they are supposed to be doing.
 
2014-07-09 02:42:12 AM

AirForceVet: Congratulations, Yazielis, on your achievement on the FCAT.

Never mind the nay sayers in this thread. You did great.


She's not gonna sleep with you.
 
2014-07-09 02:44:59 AM

doglover: It just doesn't happen. Even the kid whose normal handwriting could be mistaken for some of gibberish script of the great old ones in a Lovecraft tale will turn in a reasonably legible essay if he's a good student.


Hi! My handwriting has been atrocious until these last two years, which was a conscious effort to change due to needing to write for students in terms of feedback, brainstorming, and directions. To this day, I have trouble completing 'S's and 'E's or writing in a straight line without actual lines to guide me, and my 'signature' is an ever-changing set of loops. I tried early to mimic my teachers by writing right-handed; unfortunately, I was barely able to hold a pen properly this way because I was utterly left-handed. Once I switched, I had no penmanship or control learned, and I wrote frantically and in tiny print because I could finally keep better pace with what I was thinking. My teachers allowed this for years because each would take the time to understand what I wrote because I undoubtedly would ace any assignment.

When I was in my first university courses, I spent such huge efforts to make my writing marginally legible due to my embarrassment that one professor pulled me aside because my quality of writing between a typed research essay and a written test differed so greatly he would otherwise think I was cheating except for my involvement in the classroom. After about ten minutes my hand would cramp, and I would lose my train of thought having to erase and carefully sculpt letters. I was accustomed to composing essays in half an hour and now found myself taking the whole session to get something barely worth turning in on the page.

However, I do agree with the fact better students often have better penmanship. Still, being I only work with gifted and highly able students, I can say having dismal handwriting is not uncommon for my most capable students. Could rattle off names of four sixth graders and five fifth graders and a couple of fourth graders who are practically illegible but have pristine academic records.
 
2014-07-09 02:45:28 AM

ArkAngel: syrynxx: Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.

[static.comicvine.com image 331x433]

1989


gay.
 
2014-07-09 02:45:42 AM

doglover: wildcardjack: doglover: dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.

You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.

Easy, scan it, spell check, and run it through a Flesch-Kinkaide readability test. Then you're grading students on their handwiriting abilities and ignoring anyone left handed or superior but sloppy.

Just a protip: Superior students don't hand in sloppy essays.

It just doesn't happen. Even the kid whose normal handwriting could be mistaken for some of gibberish script of the great old ones in a Lovecraft tale will turn in a reasonably legible essay if he's a good student.

The messy essays tend to be messy in structure also.

At least, that's what I find to be the case.


Dysgraphia. I has it. Or maybe the fact I'm allergic to cedar made it so my hands hurt too bad to develop the fine writing skills. shiat, I think back and every school problem went back to an allergy to pencil wood and a sulfite allergy that was irritated by every slice of white bread.
 
2014-07-09 02:52:08 AM

doglover: dookdookdook: AverageAmericanGuy: What worries me more is that out of 27,000 students taking this test only one got a perfect score.

Those questions aren't that hard.

The questions probably get harder toward the end of the test.  Doubt the sample questions would reflect that.

But the essay test seems to be the main roadblock to a perfect score (3 out of 192,000 4th graders in FL got perfects), and grading on essays for tests like these is always bullshiat anyway.

You grade an essay objectively. Great. Now here's 10,000 more. Finish by Wednesday afternoon, because 11,000 come in then and you need all 21,000 out by Friday. By the way, you're making $25,000 a year doing this. Also you live in Florida.


I happen to know for a fact that many, perhaps most, of the people grading these use computer programs to grade them automatically. The folks I worked with always reviewed the results before posting but this amounts to about 2s per essay.
 
2014-07-09 03:00:39 AM

skinnycatullus: I mostly wanted to dispel any notions that scoring is arbitrary...


I would be pedantic and say the rubric is arbitrary, but you are correct in that the scoring per paper is not simply plucked from air but has solid reasoning based on the rubric and often correlates with the score of other raters. And yes, the formulaic writer does not tend to get a better score than the quality writer, but I will say the quality writer often is constrained by the prompt into being formulaic, shoving in every literary element possible and devising the rather prescribed structure.

skinnycatullus: Unfortunately, a large portion of the kids barely seem to even understand what they are supposed to be doing.


Not exactly an anecdote about what you mean, but reminds me how during the '12-'13 school year we had a prompt about a day with a camel. I worked in one of the most heavily impoverished schools in the state (outside of Miami), and some of my students did not recognize the word 'camel', spoken or written. I had to console a couple students in the midst of our timed assessment because I was unable to offer even the slightest bit of information to hopefully define the word for them then or otherwise jog a memory, lest every test get invalidated and I risk my certificate. One of my students told me she wrote about cigarettes because her father smokes Camels every day. Did I expect those students to score well on this? Not exactly, but we had a great record of getting students to pass despite no spelling or grammar skills, no capacity to stay on topic, no realization to inform the audience, limited vocabulary, and speech patterns at odds with academic expectations.
 
2014-07-09 03:20:04 AM

Vangor: I only work with gifted and highly able students


By troll nose-hair and goblins' knobs
With this spell we now change jobs.
 
2014-07-09 03:25:44 AM

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: And in ten years no one will give a fark how exceptional she is, and she'll be told to sit down and shut up and earn a living like every other serf on the planet.  And if she is capable of self-reflection at all she'll realize that
American schools treat every kid like they're awesome and special and don't even bother preparing them for the fact that no one cares about them anymore once they're adults, when suddenly it's time to take your place as a cog of the machine and get your goddamn work done.

/wish I'd known
//so much of childhood is a lie
/Good jerb kid, but just remember that the "you can be anything you want to be" line is a big ol' meadow-muffin of BS


learnin that now the hard way...... never mind if wall walking is un osha we are laying you off for lack of work done cause i spent time getting a ladder rather than wall walking. farck that shall not name company!
 
2014-07-09 03:43:18 AM

Ambivalence: syrynxx: Let me know when an 11-year-old gets a perfect score on the MCAT.

MCAT is for doctors, LCAT is for lawyers, what is an FCAT?

/can you tell I don't have kids?


Based on dookdookdook's post above, I think it must be a standardized test for 11-year-olds in Florida.

Otherwise, came here to ask this myself.
 
2014-07-09 04:25:53 AM
Whoever named Winter Springs, Florida must have thought himself a pretty punny guy.
 
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