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(Mirror.co.uk)   Religious bakery tells customer it won't bake a Bert and Ernie cake because something.. something about gay marriage   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 650
    More: Asinine, faiths, Bible Teach, Sesame Street character, Belfast Telegraph, Icing on the Cake, executive directors  
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8991 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2014 at 9:48 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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gja
2014-07-08 03:23:35 PM  

GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Yes, curse those lawmakers for making criminals out of people who just wanted to be free to refuse service based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.!

If we're going to make an act a crime, I think there should at least be a "victim".  I understand why you would disagree though.


Discrimination is NEVER victimless. FYI.
 
2014-07-08 03:24:00 PM  

Ant: I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.


That's what I believed this was right from the beginning: someone hunting for something to be outraged over.
 
2014-07-08 03:24:05 PM  

Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.


I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?
 
2014-07-08 03:24:44 PM  

Theaetetus: So, someone comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with white bride and groom cake toppers," and you say "okay". And then the next person comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with black bride and groom cake toppers," and you say "absolutely not". And then a third person comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with bride and bride cake toppers," and you say "absolutely not".  And you think there's no discrimination in those situations?


I'd just like to say fark you for phrasing this the way you did and I won't be responding any longer. Douche.
 
2014-07-08 03:24:44 PM  

Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: My intent is to attack you as a hypocrite who admits that discrimination based on race is bad, but refuses to admit that discrimination based on sexual orientation is bad.

Then I'm sorry to disappoint you.  I'd support the Klan wizard's decision to refuse any order as long as he did so consistently across customer demographics.

So, as long as the Klan wizard refuses to make "black history month" cakes for anyone, while gleefully making "white history month" cakes for anyone, you don't believe there's any disparate treatment based on race going on?

I don't think anyone ever said that there's no disparate treatment based on sexual orientation. That's why this is an issue.


Actually, lots of people have been saying that, on the grounds that they would refuse to make the cake for anyone. I'm with you - there is disparate treatment based on sexual orientation here.

The issue is whether or not a company has an obligation to make a product with an essentially political message on it. And no, I do not believe that it should have that obligation.

No, the issue is whether a company has an obligation not to discriminate based on those various protected traits. And yes, they do have that obligation, even if there are political movements related to the traits.

Your situation, of course, can be reversed. Can a New Black Panthers Party leader refuse to make a "White History Month" cake?

Nope, not if they're making black history month cakes. If they want to express their political beliefs, then they're free to do so on their own time. They're not free to discriminate in the operation of their business to the public.
 
2014-07-08 03:25:47 PM  

trosser: theflatline: GoldSpider: You order a "support gay marriage" cake from a religious bakery, and then get indignant when they decline?

Take this drivel to The Consumerist, subby.

I am going to order pork chops and a side of shellfish in a kosher deli and become incensed when they don't serve me.

You missed the point. This bakery offers to make cakes but then chooses discriminate. I don't think kosher delis sell pork chops.


So you go find a tshirt artist at the beach.  She makes awesome flowery airbrush drawings.
Does she have to make you a shirt of an orgy with comic level breastily clad vixens?
Of course not.
It doesn't matter if they are shirts, and she makes shirts.

Discrimination when she doesn't draw you a rose shirt because you are black?   You bet.
 
gja
2014-07-08 03:26:52 PM  

Frank N Stein: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Yes, curse those lawmakers for making criminals out of people who just wanted to be free to refuse service based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.!

If we're going to make an act a crime, I think there should at least be a "victim".  I understand why you would disagree though.

Feelings are the victims. And as we all know, there is absolutely nothing worse than hurt feelings.


Or, possibly a larger victim. Try society as a whole, friend. We all suffer for those transgressions in a twisted/connected way.
Do you think we all live in isolation?
 
2014-07-08 03:27:35 PM  

Egoy3k: Theaetetus: So, someone comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with white bride and groom cake toppers," and you say "okay". And then the next person comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with black bride and groom cake toppers," and you say "absolutely not". And then a third person comes in to your bakery and says, "I'd like to order a wedding cake with bride and bride cake toppers," and you say "absolutely not".  And you think there's no discrimination in those situations?

I'd just like to say fark you for phrasing this the way you did and I won't be responding any longer. Douche.


By creating hypothetical situations with only one or two word differences to highlight the similarities between them? Yeah, I'm a monster.
 
2014-07-08 03:30:26 PM  

jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?


Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.
 
2014-07-08 03:30:36 PM  

trosser: theflatline: GoldSpider: You order a "support gay marriage" cake from a religious bakery, and then get indignant when they decline?

Take this drivel to The Consumerist, subby.

I am going to order pork chops and a side of shellfish in a kosher deli and become incensed when they don't serve me.

You missed the point. This bakery offers to make cakes but then chooses discriminate. I don't think kosher delis sell pork chops.


The deli does not sell items of which content (pork chops) it disagrees, even though pork chops are legal.

The bakery does not want to sell item with which the contents it does not agree.

You might as well demand they make you a swastika cake, you know, because they make cakes.
 
2014-07-08 03:32:07 PM  

limboslam: Diogenes: "the case proves the need for the law to reasonably accommodate family-run businesses with firmly held beliefs".

Nice to see that England can still learn something from its petulant and rebellious children in America.  Too bad it's the wrong lesson.

Yeah! Freedom be damned! You print what we tell you to print, dammit! Would any bakery be hit with a lawsuit if they refused to put on a cake, "Abortion is murder?" Probably not.


yeah, if you don't like slavery, just don't buy slaves, but why tell other people what to do?
 
Ant
2014-07-08 03:32:49 PM  

Notabunny: fta We thought that this order was at odds with our beliefs. It certainly was in contradiction of what the Bible teaches

God hates fondant


Thou shall not cover thine cake in foul sugar paste crap
 
2014-07-08 03:33:54 PM  

Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: My intent is to attack you as a hypocrite who admits that discrimination based on race is bad, but refuses to admit that discrimination based on sexual orientation is bad.

Then I'm sorry to disappoint you.  I'd support the Klan wizard's decision to refuse any order as long as he did so consistently across customer demographics.

So, as long as the Klan wizard refuses to make "black history month" cakes for anyone, while gleefully making "white history month" cakes for anyone, you don't believe there's any disparate treatment based on race going on?

I don't think anyone ever said that there's no disparate treatment based on sexual orientation. That's why this is an issue.

Actually, lots of people have been saying that, on the grounds that they would refuse to make the cake for anyone. I'm with you - there is disparate treatment based on sexual orientation here.

The issue is whether or not a company has an obligation to make a product with an essentially political message on it. And no, I do not believe that it should have that obligation.

No, the issue is whether a company has an obligation not to discriminate based on those various protected traits. And yes, they do have that obligation, even if there are political movements related to the traits.

Your situation, of course, can be reversed. Can a New Black Panthers Party leader refuse to make a "White History Month" cake?

Nope, not if they're making black history month cakes. If they want to express their political beliefs, then they're free to do so on their own time. They're not free to discriminate in the operation of their business to the public.


Discrimination is, unfortunately, unavoidable. What is being discriminated against (biased against might be better phrasing here) is the concept of gay marriage and not homosexuality in general (and I agree with other posters that the same cake would probably be refused by a straight couple). Now obviously the two issues of gay marriage and homosexuality are intertwined, but there is a difference on whether a political idea is the cause of the refusal, or the person. I believe it is the former. You believe it is the latter. The reason I believe the former, and this the ability to refuse service, is because a business should run as it sees fit. As it appears that there was no problem finding a cake shop that the customer can purchase the desired product from, this issue should have ended there. Everyone is happy. The first cake shop didn't have to make a product it didn't want to, the customer found a business to work with, and the other business made money from the cake.

I don't see why there should be further investigation into the issue.

But hey, I'll give you due credit. You're consistent in your believe and that's commendable. But I just disagree with you.
 
2014-07-08 03:34:29 PM  

soseussme: yeah, if you don't like slavery, just don't buy slaves, but why tell other people what to do?


Your sense of perspective is duly noted.
 
2014-07-08 03:34:38 PM  
*belief, not believe.

/farking autocorrect
 
2014-07-08 03:35:04 PM  

Theaetetus: The_Six_Fingered_Man:
"It's pretty clear, they refused the order because of sexual orientation of the customers."

You assume that since the order was refused and that the image was in support of same sex marriage, that the sexual orientation of the customer is "pretty clear."

Nope - the intent of the refusal was "pretty clear". Reading is fundamental.

If those were not your words (as I copied and pasted from this thread), then you should really have the modmins examine your account for possible unwarranted intrusion.

You claimed I said "because the image has same sex marriage connotations, that the customer that ordered must necessarily be gay".You didn't copy and paste that from  anywhere. You piss and moan whenever someone claims to misrepresent what you said, but you stick words in people's mouths and then lie about it. You're a liar and a hypocrite, and really just a waste of time. Bye.


So, you're going to ignore the other quotes I posted? You know, the ones where you assert that the owner assumed that the customer was gay based on the refusal of the cake image?

There is absolutely no evidence that I have found that states that the customer in question was, or is now, gay. You made that assumption based on the image that the customer wanted printed on the cake. You believe that since the bakery refused to print the image, that they must have done so due to the orientation of the customer, something that the owners who made the decision would be unaware of, unless they also employ the same assertions that you have been employing, namely that only gay people would want this image on their cake.

So you are welcome to call me a hypocrite and a liar, but when I provide your own words and then you choose to ignore them, it's out there for everyone to see.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 03:37:59 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Why should these people be burdened with others' beliefs? If they don't want to serve gay people, then those people should patronize some other business that will. The former bakery will lose money, and if enough people avoid them, they'll go out of business. Why pick a fight??


So financially profitable bigotry can continue unabated? Yay!
 
2014-07-08 03:39:37 PM  

Egoy3k: ciberido: Deedeemarz: Why is this such a big deal? Can't they just find another baker?

[www.abhmuseum.org image 300x400]

Yeah.  Just go somewhere else.

Nobody click that link unless you don't have anything to do for the rest of the day!  It's fascinating and engrossing!  I learned this to my sorrow the last time it was linked on fark.


And right here, folks, this is the reason I lurk Fark.

Thanks for making my readership worthwhile.  Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you

Ok, back to your usual pedantic comments.  Carry on
 
2014-07-08 03:40:00 PM  

Ant: So financially profitable bigotry can continue unabated? Yay!


I don't think businesses whose owners are looking for reasons to refuse service are in much danger of being profitable.
 
2014-07-08 03:40:33 PM  

MrBallou: HotWingConspiracy: Why do they have to drag Bert & Ernie in to this?

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Am I the only one who always assumed that Bert and Ernie were brothers?

Seriously, this has always bugged the hell out of me.

What kind of pervert looks at 2 puppets portraying 2 guys who live in the same house and imagines a whole sexual relationship between them?


So if the show had a segment with 2 puppets, one male and one female, who live in the same house, you would automatically assume that they were brother and sister, and label anyone who suggested that they might be husband and wife (or boyfriend and girlfriend) a pervert?
 
2014-07-08 03:40:50 PM  

Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.


I will request this  decoration be put on it:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-07-08 03:44:17 PM  

RRicochet: I wish gays would go back in the closet. I'm sick of hearing about them.


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." -- Matthew 5:29

So maybe gouge out your eardrums with a screwdriver?
 
2014-07-08 03:46:02 PM  

Frank N Stein: Discrimination is, unfortunately, unavoidable. What is being discriminated against (biased against might be better phrasing here) is the concept of gay marriage and not homosexuality in general (and I agree with other posters that the same cake would probably be refused by a straight couple). Now obviously the two issues of gay marriage and homosexuality are intertwined, but there is a difference on whether a political idea is the cause of the refusal, or the person. I believe it is the former. You believe it is the latter. The reason I believe the former, and this the ability to refuse service, is because a business should run as it sees fit. As it appears that there was no problem finding a cake shop that the customer can purchase the desired product from, this issue should have ended there. Everyone is happy. The first cake shop didn't have to make a product it didn't want to, the customer found a business to work with, and the other business made money from the cake.


Again, although it upsets people, the civil rights era has perfect parallels... There were other lunch counters that served black folks so they could've gone elsewhere and the issue could've ended there.  An argument could even be made* that refusing them service wasn't on account of their race, but due to a political belief in support of segregation.

... But that political belief was based on racial discrimination. Similarly, the anti-gay marriage political movement is based on discrimination against homosexuals. That's why all of these court cases keep losing - there are no justifications for same sex marriage bans, other than animosity... and anti-discrimination laws prevent business owners from acting on that animosity in the course of their business.

Now sure, there's a Libertarian argument that can be made that businesses should be free to refuse service to whomever they want and the business should run as they see fit - if the market doesn't like discrimination, then they will lose customers and go out of business, right? No - discrimination is frequently quite popular. There were entire towns that refused service to black people, Brown v. Board of Educ. was wildly unpopular at the time, and many states had antimiscegenation laws at the time of  Loving v. Virginia.  If the majority of society is in favor of discriminating against a minority, then from a free market perspective, then that should be just fine. But equal protection isn't about protecting the majority from a minority; rather, it's the opposite - protecting a minority's rights, because they lack the political power to protect them on their own.

*not that I think it passes the smell test
 
2014-07-08 03:47:00 PM  

jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.

I will request this  decoration be put on it:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 772x1152]


So, again, which religion would they be allegedly discriminating against?
 
Ant
2014-07-08 03:47:14 PM  

theflatline: GoldSpider: You order a "support gay marriage" cake from a religious bakery, and then get indignant when they decline?

Take this drivel to The Consumerist, subby.

I am going to order pork chops and a side of shellfish in a kosher deli and become incensed when they don't serve me.


Your analogy is not analogous. I'm going to order a pizza from the Vietnamese deli by my house and become incensed when they tell me to get lost.

See? Doesn't make sense. The Jewish deli doesn't carry pork or shellfish. A bakery does make cakes.
 
gja
2014-07-08 03:47:55 PM  

Theaetetus: "Happy Catholic Marriage!"


Riiiiiight.
Show me ONE.
 
2014-07-08 03:48:04 PM  

Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.

I will request this  decoration be put on it:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 772x1152]

So, again, which religion would they be allegedly discriminating against?


I meant in addition to the "Happy Catholic Traditional Marriage!" message.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 03:50:44 PM  

htomc: And people who do so should be prepared to face the full responsibility for the loss of business and ill-will that doing so would generate.


So if your group is unpopular, you're screwed.
 
2014-07-08 03:50:49 PM  

jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.

I will request this  decoration be put on it:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 772x1152]

So, again, which religion would they be allegedly discriminating against?

I meant in addition to the "Happy Catholic Traditional Marriage!" message.


Then how would you know whether they were discriminating against the images or the Catholicism?

The bakers here would've been fine if they said that they refused to print any cake with muppets on it.
 
2014-07-08 03:52:21 PM  

Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.

I will request this  decoration be put on it:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 772x1152]

So, again, which religion would they be allegedly discriminating against?

I meant in addition to the "Happy Catholic Traditional Marriage!" message.

Then how would you know whether they were discriminating against the images or the Catholicism?

The bakers here would've been fine if they said that they refused to print any cake with muppets on it.


Either way they are discriminating against me because of my religious beliefs.
 
gja
2014-07-08 03:55:00 PM  

jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Theaetetus: jst3p: Ant: nekom: Who makes a "support gay marriage" cake anyway?

So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!

 I wonder how many people are just trolling religious bakeries now, trying to see if they'll refuse to bake a pro-gay rights cake.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.

I live near Boulder, CO and I wonder if I can get a bakery to refuse to make a "traditional marriage party!" cake and then claim religious discrimination.  Theaetetus, want the case?

Which religion would they be discriminating against? I think there are several that could apply there. How about this - get a bakery to refuse to make a "Happy Catholic Marriage!" cake, and then give me a call.

I will request this  decoration be put on it:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 772x1152]

So, again, which religion would they be allegedly discriminating against?

I meant in addition to the "Happy Catholic Traditional Marriage!" message.

Then how would you know whether they were discriminating against the images or the Catholicism?

The bakers here would've been fine if they said that they refused to print any cake with muppets on it.

Either way they are discriminating against me because of my religious beliefs.


You worship muppets?
 
2014-07-08 03:56:41 PM  

gja: You worship muppets?


For starters, I can prove their existence, so it immediately makes more sense than most religions.
 
2014-07-08 03:58:07 PM  

Theaetetus: Then how would you know whether they were discriminating against the images or the Catholicism?

The bakers here would've been fine if they said that they refused to print any cake with muppets on it.


That's what the inquisition is for.
 
2014-07-08 03:58:08 PM  

jst3p: Theaetetus: Either way they are discriminating against me because of my religious beliefs.


Not so... Opposition to gay marriage is not necessarily a religious belief (and many gay marriage opponents would specifically deny that it is, since otherwise, a bunch of their attempted justifications for bans disappear).
 
2014-07-08 04:03:17 PM  

eeyore102: How about Sherlock Holmes and John Watson? They're totally gay, yes?


Don't be silly... Watson was married to a woman (not that that necessarily proves anything)... And, Holmes was mostly asexual, with the exception of having the hots for Irene Adler (but, that was mostly a cerebral attraction to her, not sexual)...

Mycroft, on the other hand... Totally gay!
 
2014-07-08 04:04:51 PM  
i.imgur.com
Slippery slope, people.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 04:07:51 PM  

Nix Nightbird: To be fair, I can't imagine anyone in the western world wanting to eat a cake made by hardcore Muslims no matter what decorations are on top. When I think "Muslim" I don't think "yummy, sweet confections and pastries" -- I think "cous cous, olives, and hummus".


You're joking, right? They only make the best farking dessert pastry ever!

www.mybestdaysever.com
 
2014-07-08 04:09:51 PM  

Theaetetus: Opposition to gay marriage is not necessarily a religious belief


Neither is opposition to providing birth control, but that one flew.
 
2014-07-08 04:10:43 PM  

Theaetetus: scotchlandia: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: I notice you didn't answer... why?

Because my point, which I already made, doesn't require me to invite you to attack me as a Klan-sympathizer, as is clearly your intent with that kind of question.

Not at all: I fully expect you to distance yourself from any Klan sympathies. My intent is to attack you as a hypocrite who admits that discrimination based on race is bad, but refuses to admit that discrimination based on sexual orientation is bad.

Dumb it down for me. How does one equal the other, or in what way is that hypocritical? Also I see what you did there with that "I fully expect you to distance yourself from any Klan sympathies" quip. This is why one discrimination most people agree on is arbiterphobia.

I'm not sure I understand your question: "in what way is it hypocritical to believe that racial discrimination is bad but sexual orientation discrimination is not"? Are you really asking that?


Educate me, I was busy doing something else when a lifestyle choice became equivacal to being a member of a race or ethnicity. I am pretty sure I would bake the cake, because a paying customer is a good customer. I am also sure I wouldn't make a cake I found offensive (pornographic, derogatory); but who can decide what is offensive to another individual? Keep in mind that this is a new shift in the social fabric and be sure to use small words for me.

Thanks.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 04:11:40 PM  

RRicochet: I wish gays would go back in the closet. I'm sick of hearing about them.


I wish people would stop being against things that don't farking matter. Gay marriage doesn't farking affect you in any way. If you'd stop being stupid, you could stop hearing about it all the time.
 
2014-07-08 04:12:06 PM  

Ant: Nix Nightbird: To be fair, I can't imagine anyone in the western world wanting to eat a cake made by hardcore Muslims no matter what decorations are on top. When I think "Muslim" I don't think "yummy, sweet confections and pastries" -- I think "cous cous, olives, and hummus".

You're joking, right? They Greeks only make the best farking dessert pastry ever!

[www.mybestdaysever.com image 550x412]


FTFY.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 04:14:04 PM  

Deedeemarz: If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.


You can have equal rights when your group becomes popular enough.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 04:16:02 PM  

MBooda: Ant: Nix Nightbird: To be fair, I can't imagine anyone in the western world wanting to eat a cake made by hardcore Muslims no matter what decorations are on top. When I think "Muslim" I don't think "yummy, sweet confections and pastries" -- I think "cous cous, olives, and hummus".

You're joking, right? They Greeks only make the best farking dessert pastry ever!

[www.mybestdaysever.com image 550x412]

FTFY.


Turks make it too.
 
2014-07-08 04:19:06 PM  

debug: The_Six_Fingered_Man:  GoldSpider thinks that a cake, no matter what the image or design, is a representative advertisement of the bakery. And he's correct. You seem to think that it's a pair of pants or an unrelated image. I am having trouble finding any reasonableness in your replies.


Well, he's partially correct.  It's an advertisement of the quality of the bakery and nothing more.  It is not an advertisement of the beliefs of the people that work at or own the bakery or the individual that decorated the cake.  Why the personal beliefs of these people are involved in any way makes no sense and making baked goods for people that have different beliefs than they do in no way infringes on their actual beliefs.  I'm quite sure there is no passage in the bible that states it is sinful to make baked goods for sinners, so how is this actually infringing upon their beliefs?

Like I said earlier, Jesus didn't refuse to give loaves and fishes to anyone.


'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

So basically these "Christians" just refused to bake a cake for Jesus.
 
Ant
2014-07-08 04:19:39 PM  

Chongo79: "Why, hello there Mr. Atheist baker. Could I have a cake for my son's first communion?"


No problem
 
2014-07-08 04:20:26 PM  

GoldSpider: The rules of artistic interpretation aren't quite that simple.


I'm still waiting to hear what these rules are.  Having a BFA you would think they would have been mentioned at some point.
 
2014-07-08 04:20:55 PM  

scotchlandia: Educate me, I was busy doing something else when a lifestyle choice became equivacal to being a member of a race or ethnicity.


You aren't helping.
 
2014-07-08 04:21:02 PM  

Ant: RRicochet: I wish gays would go back in the closet. I'm sick of hearing about them.

I wish people would stop being against things that don't farking matter. Gay marriage doesn't farking affect you in any way. If you'd stop being stupid, you could stop hearing about it all the time.


Apparently it affected these guys otherwise we wouldn't be hearing about it.,
 
2014-07-08 04:31:07 PM  

debug: GoldSpider: The rules of artistic interpretation aren't quite that simple.

I'm still waiting to hear what these rules are.  Having a BFA you would think they would have been mentioned at some point.


When you say a cake someone bakes "is an advertisement of the quality of the bakery and nothing more", you don't control that. You don't get to decide what anyone else interprets from your creation.
 
2014-07-08 04:33:05 PM  

scotchlandia: Theaetetus: I'm not sure I understand your question: "in what way is it hypocritical to believe that racial discrimination is bad but sexual orientation discrimination is not"? Are you really asking that?

Educate me, I was busy doing something else when a lifestyle choice became equivacal to being a member of a race or ethnicity. I am pretty sure I would bake the cake, because a paying customer is a good customer. I am also sure I wouldn't make a cake I found offensive (pornographic, derogatory); but who can decide what is offensive to another individual? Keep in mind that this is a new shift in the social fabric and be sure to use small words for me.


Sure, happy to.

First, it's pretty well accepted in the scientific community, and beginning to be accepted in the legal community, that sexual orientation is not a "lifestyle choice". Rather, it seems to be an inherent trait linked to some genetic markers and/or environmental effects in the womb. In that regard, it's equivocal to a race or ethnicity, because both are inherent.

Second,  even if it was merely a lifestyle choice, that would make it equivocal to being a member of a religion. Religions are "lifestyle choices", in that they're not inherent, and they can be taken up, dropped, switched, etc. at will.  However, we find religious discrimination to be a bad thing, because we think it would be abhorrent for a majority to force a religious belief on a minority.
Similarly, even if sexual orientation was a "lifestyle choice", we think it would be abhorrent for a majority to force a sexual practice on a minority. Just as it's wrong to say "you must worship the god I tell you to, rather than the one you want to", it's wrong to say "you must fark the person I tell you to, rather than the one you want to."

As for being a new shift in the social fabric, not really... It started several decades ago, when the Supreme Court first started talking about suspect classifications, in which a group is defined by a trait that is immutable, apparent, irrelevant to their ability to contribute to society, and a minority group defined by the trait lacks substantial political power. That goes for race, and it also goes for gender, religion, and sexual orientation.
 
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