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(Mirror.co.uk)   Religious bakery tells customer it won't bake a Bert and Ernie cake because something.. something about gay marriage   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 650
    More: Asinine, faiths, Bible Teach, Sesame Street character, Belfast Telegraph, Icing on the Cake, executive directors  
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8999 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2014 at 9:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-08 12:48:36 PM  

Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?

That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.

They refused to serve these customers. No mention was made of alternate products. But you knew that, too, since you read the article, right?

It says right in the article that the bakery "refused to make a cake featuring the slogan". It's the specific product that they didn't want to make, and not a carte blanche refusal to serve gay people.

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that they offered to make a different cake. Rather, they refused the order and refunded the customer's money.


So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?
 
2014-07-08 12:49:19 PM  

Theaetetus: The word of mouth may be advertising, not the cake itself.


Gotcha. You're just dumb.

Theaetetus: We're talking about this particular cake. Who cares if they make brioche?


We  are talking about this particular cake. Which is why I thought it odd that you claim that the bakery doesn't do any cake design. Why bring in the non-sequitor? Was it to show that art creation holds more protection than simple commercial speech?

Theaetetus: It can now be regulated as commercial speech, which has much less protection than creative speech.


So, in your world, I can be forced to say something that I don't agree with if the government can classify it as advertising? Why then, are advertising rules not applied to political signs, as they are nothing more than advertisements for a particular candidate or position? Is that speech can be both creative and commercial at the same time? Nah....has to be one or the other, right?

Theaetetus: But then, you also apparently think that everything posted on Fark is a representative advertisement of Drew and the modmins.


Are you trying to say that the selection of links that they approve do not represent a belief held by Drew that certain stories are more attuned to this site than others? Or that the removal of certain comments do not represent a belief held by Drew that those sorts of comments are counter to the stated goals of the site?
 
2014-07-08 12:49:40 PM  

Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?

That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.

They refused to serve these customers. No mention was made of alternate products. But you knew that, too, since you read the article, right?

It says right in the article that the bakery "refused to make a cake featuring the slogan". It's the specific product that they didn't want to make, and not a carte blanche refusal to serve gay people.

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that they offered to make a different cake. Rather, they refused the order and refunded the customer's money.

So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?


Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?
 
2014-07-08 12:50:34 PM  

Theaetetus: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: ... so you aresaying that all of the modmins and Drew must endorse whatever is posted here, because they can change or delete it? That Fark is their "corporate letterhead" so anything that appears on their site is their officially adopted belief?

I am not saying that they endorse everything that is posted here... Fark.com is their corporate letterhead. It is the product that they present to the public and inferences can be made based on what is posted here that can be directed back at the owners and operators of the site.

So, you're not saying that they endorse everything here, but rather that reasonable inferences can be made that they endorse everything here?

[cdn2.crushable.com image 245x285]


I know you're a lawyer, but how about actually responding to the words that I wrote and not the words that you imagine I wrote. Where did I say "everything?"
 
2014-07-08 12:50:36 PM  

stpauler: Frank N Stein:

Okay, so then why do you believe that there should there be this law which requires a company to make a product that it doesn't want to?


Why do I, as an American, believe that Northern Ireland should have a law requiring businesses not to discriminate against its potential clientele? You mean, besides the points repeated elucidated in this thread, in my post, and in the articles and links provided, and Northern Ireland's history of sectarian and political violence?


Yes. Why do you believe they are required to create a product that expresses an essentially political opinion?
 
2014-07-08 12:52:01 PM  

Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?

That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.

They refused to serve these customers. No mention was made of alternate products. But you knew that, too, since you read the article, right?

It says right in the article that the bakery "refused to make a cake featuring the slogan". It's the specific product that they didn't want to make, and not a carte blanche refusal to serve gay people.

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that they offered to make a different cake. Rather, they refused the order and refunded the customer's money.

So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?

Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?


Again, falling back on allusions to 1960s civil rights movement. Just stop.
 
2014-07-08 12:52:52 PM  

Elliot8654: GoldSpider: Serious Black: If I make a cake that says "Death to the Jews" for a group of Neo-Nazis, does that mean I endorse committing a mass genocide against Jews?

Someone who sees that message on a cake you produced and sold could conclude that.  And I certainly don't think you, as a business owner, would want to risk that.

So can I now blame colt and gun manufacturers for endorsing murder since their guns are used for it?


If you are a Democrat I bet you already do.
 
2014-07-08 12:53:34 PM  

Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?

That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.

They refused to serve these customers. No mention was made of alternate products. But you knew that, too, since you read the article, right?

It says right in the article that the bakery "refused to make a cake featuring the slogan". It's the specific product that they didn't want to make, and not a carte blanche refusal to serve gay people.

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that they offered to make a different cake. Rather, they refused the order and refunded the customer's money.

So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?

Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?


If a black guy goes to a fish place and insists on having a steak, it would be racist to suggest he go to a different restaurant. Got it.
 
2014-07-08 12:54:09 PM  
Why would any self respecting gay person use the services of a bakery for a cake?
What's next, religious interior decorators and gay bashing florists?

I just don't believe it.
 
2014-07-08 12:54:18 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?

1) Sexual orientation is not a choice

2) The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike"  says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

3) Using images of muppets to "promote" sexual orientation doesn't seem to be much of a problem when that orientation is "heterosexual"
[img.fark.net image 300x238][img.fark.net image 300x226][img.fark.net image 288x226][img.fark.net image 256x197]
[img.fark.net image 259x194] [img.fark.net image 252x224]

Having a chicken as your romantic partner is A-OK, as long as it's a girl chicken.


Did you purposefully ignore the part of my post that said CHILDLIKE.  All of the muppets your picture seem to be adult characters.  It's been a whole lot of years since I watched Sesame street, but Ernie sure seems like the character of a child to me.
 
2014-07-08 12:54:24 PM  

Frank N Stein: mainstreet62: You guys are missing the entire point of this discussion.

WHAT KIND OF CAKE WAS IT?!

/Ice cream? Please say ice cream!

I like ice cream cake. Cheaper cakes, like the ones you buy at the supermarket, are awful. The frosting tends to be way too sweet for my liking. I know fark all about cakes, so maybe someone here can help me be a more discerning cake shopper. What kind of frosting is it that isn't the fluffy super-sweet stuff on seemingly most cakes? I like the richer, more creamy or buttery type frosting. That's the good shiat, and I want to know what it's called.


Buttercream frosting. The stuff that most grocery stores sell is shortening and powdered sugar.
 
2014-07-08 12:54:34 PM  

umad: Elliot8654: GoldSpider: Serious Black: If I make a cake that says "Death to the Jews" for a group of Neo-Nazis, does that mean I endorse committing a mass genocide against Jews?

Someone who sees that message on a cake you produced and sold could conclude that.  And I certainly don't think you, as a business owner, would want to risk that.

So can I now blame colt and gun manufacturers for endorsing murder since their guns are used for it?

If you are a Democrat I bet you already do.


And if you look way above you and to the left, you will see the point, which you totally missed.
 
2014-07-08 12:54:34 PM  
The_Six_Fingered_Man:We  are talking about this particular cake. Which is why I thought it odd that you claim that the bakery doesn't do any cake design. Why bring in the non-sequitor?

... this particular cake, which you agree we're talking about, doesn't involve any cake design. What's a non-sequitor about that?

Was it to show that art creation holds more protection than simple commercial speech?

Also, you do know that that's true, don't you?

So, in your world, I can be forced to say something that I don't agree with if the government can classify it as advertising?

For example, if you believe that whites are superior and you don't want to rent your house to anyone except whites, then yes, the government can most certainly prevent you from saying that, and can force you to say that you'll rent your house to anyone of any race. It's been this way for what, almost 50 years now? Why is this so shocking to you?

Why then, are advertising rules not applied to political signs, as they are nothing more than advertisements for a particular candidate or position? Is that speech can be both creative and commercial at the same time? Nah....has to be one or the other, right?

Or is it that political speech and creative speech (and also scientific speech) are protected more than commercial speech? Nah, all speech must be identical, right?

Are you trying to say that the selection of links that they approve do not represent a belief held by Drew that certain stories are more attuned to this site than others? Or that the removal of certain comments do not represent a belief held by Drew that those sorts of comments are counter to the stated goals of the site?

... my god, you really  are trying to claim that the modmins and Drew endorse every comment that remains on the site after they've had an opportunity to remove it. That's it. You're a looney.
 
2014-07-08 12:55:56 PM  
They should make it a chocolate cake and make Ernie be eating the poo-poo
 
2014-07-08 12:56:21 PM  
The problem here is fraud.

The bakery owners reject the teachings of Jesus, but claim to be Christians.

All they have to do is make these claims in court and they are in jail for contempt.
 
2014-07-08 12:56:31 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: ... so you aresaying that all of the modmins and Drew must endorse whatever is posted here, because they can change or delete it? That Fark is their "corporate letterhead" so anything that appears on their site is their officially adopted belief?

I am not saying that they endorse everything that is posted here... Fark.com is their corporate letterhead. It is the product that they present to the public and inferences can be made based on what is posted here that can be directed back at the owners and operators of the site.

So, you're not saying that they endorse everything here, but rather that reasonable inferences can be made that they endorse everything here?

[cdn2.crushable.com image 245x285]

I know you're a lawyer, but how about actually responding to the words that I wrote and not the words that you imagine I wrote. Where did I say "everything?"


So, you're not saying that they endorse everything here, but rather that reasonable inferences can be made that they endorse "what is posted here"?
replygif.net
 
2014-07-08 12:57:07 PM  
What's next? Inter-species marriage? How aberrant does it have to get before people realize it ain't right?
 
2014-07-08 12:57:53 PM  

Frank N Stein: Again, falling back on allusions to 1960s civil rights movement. Just stop.


Again, refusing to admit any parallels to the 1960s civil rights movement. Just stop.
s2.hubimg.com
 
2014-07-08 01:00:26 PM  

GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein:
So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?

Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?

If a black guy goes to a fish place and insists on having a steak, it would be racist to suggest he go to a different restaurant. Got it.


If these guys went into a bakery that makes custom cakes with customer-requested images and insisted on having a steak, they'd be wrong. But they didn't. They asked for a custom cake with a customer-requested image.
 
2014-07-08 01:00:46 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?

1) Sexual orientation is not a choice

2) The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike"  says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

3) Using images of muppets to "promote" sexual orientation doesn't seem to be much of a problem when that orientation is "heterosexual"
[img.fark.net image 300x238][img.fark.net image 300x226][img.fark.net image 288x226][img.fark.net image 256x197]
[img.fark.net image 259x194] [img.fark.net image 252x224]

Having a chicken as your romantic partner is A-OK, as long as it's a girl chicken.


Wow, I just realized Gonzo is republican.
 
2014-07-08 01:03:26 PM  

trappedspirit: They should make it a chocolate cake and make Ernie be eating the poo-poo


stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2014-07-08 01:03:56 PM  

GoldSpider: If a black guy goes to a fish place and insists on having a steak, it would be racist to suggest he go to a different restaurant. Got it.


They don't have steak, so that's not accurate.
It's more like if the black guy orders a piece of fish to be prepared in some fashion that the chef finds contrary to his beliefs and the chef refuses to make that fish.  According to some people, that chef is a racist.
 
2014-07-08 01:04:52 PM  

Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein:
So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?

Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?

If a black guy goes to a fish place and insists on having a steak, it would be racist to suggest he go to a different restaurant. Got it.

If these guys went into a bakery that makes custom cakes with customer-requested images and insisted on having a steak, they'd be wrong. But they didn't. They asked for a custom cake with a customer-requested image.


and they denied to produce said requested image.

Just like the NFL doesn't have to air your advertisement just because you paid the money and you, obviously, have advertisements.

The NFL doesn't like the subject of your advertisement?  Suck it.
 
2014-07-08 01:05:43 PM  

Heamer: I know literally nothing about owning a business, but it always strikes me as a poor business model to turn away people who are willing to give you money for your services. That certain people are so obsessed with attaching their beliefs to their business just seems self-destructive.


There are people who will flock to your business because of it.  Witness Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day.
 
2014-07-08 01:06:13 PM  

Theaetetus: ... this particular cake, which you agree we're talking about, doesn't involve any cake design. What's a non-sequitor about that?


The fact that you attributed the design of this cake to all offerings from the bakery. "they make custom cakes as requested by the customer. Specifically, they don't design cakes - they make sheet cakes and print an image on the face. It doesn't include any creative input from them." They did not "design" the face of this cake, but that is not to mean that they do not design ANY cakes, as you suggest.

Theaetetus: Also, you do know that that's true, don't you?


Yes, I do, which is how I picked up on your attempt.

Theaetetus: For example, if you believe that whites are superior and you don't want to rent your house to anyone except whites, then yes, the government can most certainly prevent you from saying that, and can force you to say that you'll rent your house to anyone of any race. It's been this way for what, almost 50 years now? Why is this so shocking to you?


They can require that I present an equal opportunity in my advertisements. They cannot require, absent evidence of actual discrimination, that I rent to a non-white over a white person. In other words, they cannot compel me to conduct business with that person absent actual discrimination. The bakery, by making the cake, is creating a product and conducting business.

Theaetetus: Or is it that political speech and creative speech (and also scientific speech) are protected more than commercial speech? Nah, all speech must be identical, right?


So you agree that political speech is more protected than commercial speech. Is the stance on same sex marriage not a political stance as well as a religious stance? Is it not afforded greater protection than plain commercial speech? If speech can be classified as both political and commercial in nature, which protections is it afforded?

Theaetetus: ... my god, you really  are trying to claim that the modmins and Drew endorse every comment that remains on the site after they've had an opportunity to remove it. That's it. You're a looney.


That's not what I am claiming at all. You are the one trying to analogize the comments posted on a somewhat open forum are the same as content created by a single person in the course of business. If Drew was the only one posting here, I could absolutely infer that the postings here were representative of his overall beliefs. Since he is not, all I can infer is that certain types of content go against his beliefs, whether they be political, business, religion, or science related. You can try once again to say that this statement means that I think Drew personally reviews each comment to ensure that each one is a stringent adherence to his personal beliefs, but you would once again be misrepresenting my position.
 
2014-07-08 01:08:26 PM  
The_Six_Fingered_Man:  GoldSpider thinks that a cake, no matter what the image or design, is a representative advertisement of the bakery. And he's correct. You seem to think that it's a pair of pants or an unrelated image. I am having trouble finding any reasonableness in your replies.


Well, he's partially correct.  It's an advertisement of the quality of the bakery and nothing more.  It is not an advertisement of the beliefs of the people that work at or own the bakery or the individual that decorated the cake.  Why the personal beliefs of these people are involved in any way makes no sense and making baked goods for people that have different beliefs than they do in no way infringes on their actual beliefs.  I'm quite sure there is no passage in the bible that states it is sinful to make baked goods for sinners, so how is this actually infringing upon their beliefs?

Like I said earlier, Jesus didn't refuse to give loaves and fishes to anyone.
 
2014-07-08 01:08:35 PM  

Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein:
So? Assuming that they didn't offer an alternative product, isn't it up to the customer to come up with an alternative that fits their needs?

Like "go to the diner down the street that will serve your kind"?

If a black guy goes to a fish place and insists on having a steak, it would be racist to suggest he go to a different restaurant. Got it.

If these guys went into a bakery that makes custom cakes with customer-requested images and insisted on having a steak, they'd be wrong. But they didn't. They asked for a custom cake with a customer-requested image.


So what about the idiot kids who want to buy their friend a custom cake with a marijuana leaf on it or profanity and get refused?  Don't think that they get refused? Go and work at a bakery for a year. Cake designs get refused all the time.  To make the claim that the proprietor doesn't have a choice in what they create is silly. If the proprietor had declined to make them any cake at all because they were gay then sure they'd have grounds to sue them in the US, but it seems to me the the creator should have the ability to veto designs they don't like regardless of if we agree with their reasons or not.
 
2014-07-08 01:09:20 PM  

Theaetetus: They asked for a custom cake with a customer-requested image.


So what is the difference, logically, between refusing to print a large phallus on the cake versus refusing to print image X? Would a regulation that allows the first refusal but not the second not be content neutral?
 
2014-07-08 01:09:33 PM  
Does anyone else have the sudden mental image of Theaetetus sitting in a court room flashing pictures of people making faces at the judge and opposing council as they're making their arguments?

/laughter OL
//I'm easily amused
 
2014-07-08 01:11:53 PM  
Does anyone else have the sudden mental image of Theaetetus sitting in a court room flashing pictures of people making faces at the judge and opposing council as they're making their arguments?


No, because he spends all his time clogging up threads on this site.
 
2014-07-08 01:16:23 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation

Ctrl-Alt-Del: The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike" says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

Ker_Thwap: Did you purposefully ignore the part of my post that said CHILDLIKE


Look how stupid you are

Ker_Thwap: All of the muppets your picture seem to be adult characters. It's been a whole lot of years since I watched Sesame street, but Ernie sure seems like the character of a child to me.

The fact that the two of them live on their own in an apartment makes it pretty clear that they are "adult"  characters. I didn't initially comment on your "NAMBLA" reference, but combined with your continued insistence that Ernie and/or Bert are "childlike", the only thing here that's farking creepy is you.
 
2014-07-08 01:21:50 PM  

bestsportnascar: I wonder what would happen if a contractor refused to put in a bid to build a Chick-Fil-A because of their views. Would everyone be ok with that?


Not here in the US because it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion. That and contractors are not generally known for their high moral standards so it would come as quite a shock if one took any kind of moral stand that didn't involve the proper type of beer to drink before work ends vs. what type to drink after work ends.
 
2014-07-08 01:24:31 PM  
In this instance couldn't they say, "Sorry, they're copyrighted characters and we don't have permission to use their likenesses."?
 
2014-07-08 01:27:15 PM  

Egoy3k: So what about the idiot kids who want to buy their friend a custom cake with a marijuana leaf on it or profanity and get refused?

The_Six_Fingered_Man: So what is the difference, logically, between refusing to print a large phallus on the cake versus refusing to print image X?


Anti-discrimination laws name specific traits, rather than applying broadly to any belief or statement.
 
2014-07-08 01:27:52 PM  

ReverendJasen: Does anyone else have the sudden mental image of Theaetetus sitting in a court room flashing pictures of people making faces at the judge and opposing council as they're making their arguments?


http://whatthepublicdefender.tumblr.com/
 
2014-07-08 01:31:25 PM  

Egoy3k: If the proprietor had declined to make them any cake at all because they were gay then sure they'd have grounds to sue them in the US, but it seems to me the the creator should have the ability to veto designs they don't like regardless of if we agree with their reasons or not.


Lawyers have a heavily vested interest in creating new reasons to sue.

debug: Well, he's partially correct.  It's an advertisement of the quality of the bakery and nothing more.


The rules of artistic interpretation aren't quite that simple.
 
2014-07-08 01:32:29 PM  

theflatline: GoldSpider: You order a "support gay marriage" cake from a religious bakery, and then get indignant when they decline?

Take this drivel to The Consumerist, subby.

I am going to order pork chops and a side of shellfish in a kosher deli and become incensed when they don't serve me.


You missed the point. This bakery offers to make cakes but then chooses discriminate. I don't think kosher delis sell pork chops.
 
2014-07-08 01:32:59 PM  
If baking a cake that seems to support marriage equality goes against your conscience, then you have a defective conscience.

In other words, "against your conscience" is not an out when what you believe is patently ridiculous.

Now, if someone wanted a pro-Nazi cake, you as a baker would be within your rights to refuse on grounds that it goes against your conscience.

Use this handy guide: Nazi people = mostly bad     Gay people = mostly good.
 
2014-07-08 01:33:02 PM  

Theaetetus: Egoy3k: So what about the idiot kids who want to buy their friend a custom cake with a marijuana leaf on it or profanity and get refused?
The_Six_Fingered_Man: So what is the difference, logically, between refusing to print a large phallus on the cake versus refusing to print image X?

Anti-discrimination laws name specific traits, rather than applying broadly to any belief or statement.


You can't discriminate against an image. I find it hard to believe that the head office corporate managers were even aware of the customer in question, but were reacting to the image that the customer requested. The order was not refused solely by the Belfast bakery manager, but by the head office including the owners who were presumptively not present when the order was placed.

The Equality Commission is stating that the bakery discriminated against the customer based on his sexual orientation, but all I can find is that they objected to the image and what it represented.

So I ask you, how can an image carry a specific trait that affords it discrimination protection under the law?
 
2014-07-08 01:34:09 PM  

Elliot8654: umad: Elliot8654: GoldSpider: Serious Black: If I make a cake that says "Death to the Jews" for a group of Neo-Nazis, does that mean I endorse committing a mass genocide against Jews?

Someone who sees that message on a cake you produced and sold could conclude that.  And I certainly don't think you, as a business owner, would want to risk that.

So can I now blame colt and gun manufacturers for endorsing murder since their guns are used for it?

If you are a Democrat I bet you already do.

And if you look way above you and to the left, you will see the point, which you totally missed.


The point that it would be wrong to blame Colt and the other gun manufacturers for endorsing murder even though most farkers (likely including yourself) blame Colt and the other gun manufacturers for endorsing murder? Yes, hypocrisy is always so convincing.
 
2014-07-08 01:36:33 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?

1) Sexual orientation is not a choice

2) The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike"  says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

3) Using images of muppets to "promote" sexual orientation doesn't seem to be much of a problem when that orientation is "heterosexual"
[img.fark.net image 300x238][img.fark.net image 300x226][img.fark.net image 288x226][img.fark.net image 256x197]
[img.fark.net image 259x194] [img.fark.net image 252x224]

Having a chicken as your romantic partner is A-OK, as long as it's a girl chicken.


I love you for this.
 
2014-07-08 01:37:08 PM  

Circusdog320: Where did Jesus say love everybody except gay people?


www.atheistmemebase.com
 
2014-07-08 01:39:38 PM  

gshepnyc: Ctrl-Alt-Del: Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?

1) Sexual orientation is not a choice

2) The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike"  says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

3) Using images of muppets to "promote" sexual orientation doesn't seem to be much of a problem when that orientation is "heterosexual"
[img.fark.net image 300x238][img.fark.net image 300x226][img.fark.net image 288x226][img.fark.net image 256x197]
[img.fark.net image 259x194] [img.fark.net image 252x224]

Having a chicken as your romantic partner is A-OK, as long as it's a girl chicken.

I love you for this.


Aw, thanks. I made it into a single handy picture
img.fark.net
 
2014-07-08 01:44:20 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: gshepnyc: Ctrl-Alt-Del: Ker_Thwap: Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?

1) Sexual orientation is not a choice

2) The fact that you feel it necessary to include "creepy" and "childlike"  says more about you than about folks who think E&B are gay

3) Using images of muppets to "promote" sexual orientation doesn't seem to be much of a problem when that orientation is "heterosexual"
[img.fark.net image 300x238][img.fark.net image 300x226][img.fark.net image 288x226][img.fark.net image 256x197]
[img.fark.net image 259x194] [img.fark.net image 252x224]

Having a chicken as your romantic partner is A-OK, as long as it's a girl chicken.

I love you for this.

Aw, thanks. I made it into a single handy picture
[img.fark.net image 515x959]


Actually, I think Janice sleeps with the whole band.
 
2014-07-08 01:45:04 PM  

umad: Elliot8654: umad: Elliot8654: GoldSpider: Serious Black: If I make a cake that says "Death to the Jews" for a group of Neo-Nazis, does that mean I endorse committing a mass genocide against Jews?

Someone who sees that message on a cake you produced and sold could conclude that.  And I certainly don't think you, as a business owner, would want to risk that.

So can I now blame colt and gun manufacturers for endorsing murder since their guns are used for it?

If you are a Democrat I bet you already do.

And if you look way above you and to the left, you will see the point, which you totally missed.

The point that it would be wrong to blame Colt and the other gun manufacturers for endorsing murder even though most farkers (likely including yourself) blame Colt and the other gun manufacturers for endorsing murder? Yes, hypocrisy is always so convincing.


You should be competing in track and field with that Olympic long jump to conclusions.
 
2014-07-08 01:46:11 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: So Bert and Ernie are pole-smokers? I guess that makes sense what with it being a children's program, and whatnot...

1funny.com

 
2014-07-08 01:47:19 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: However, Fark.com is their corporate letterhead. It is the product that they present to the public and inferences can be made based on what is posted here that can be directed back at the owners and operators of the site. For instance, I can discern that Drew is likely more concerned with his belief that making money is preferable to having NSFW links on the main page, hence the decision to move Foobies out of the main FarkoSphere.


Better not point out, also, that Fark.com censors words/comments the owner finds objectionable.
 
2014-07-08 01:47:44 PM  
BitwiseShift:

Bakeries already have lots of sexual stuff going on -- ever kneaded dough or used an icing tube? The owner just doesn't want it to get out of hand with more sexual avenues with his already over-sexed employees with the introduction of children's show characters.

[img.fark.net image 179x266]


Tinky Winky is missing his purse in that photo. Oops, I mean his 'magic bag'.
 
2014-07-08 01:47:53 PM  

fiddlehead: Tom_Slick: If I were a baker I would refuse to make the cake on the grounds that Children's Television Workshop might sue me.  You can have your Support Gay Marriage Cake, I'd draw the line at using Trademarked characters on it.

I see Sesame Street and Disney cakes at my local grocery store all the time.


That doesn't make it legal. I imagine if they wanted they could hire an army of lawyers to go around with cease and deist orders for years and still never hit every bakery.  Besides that would make them the douches that ruined little Tommy's birthday and that would not be good advertising. They're better accepting it as free advertising.  In this case though CTW has specifically stated that Bert and Ernie are children puppets. They have no sexual orientation and you are a sick individual if you feel the need to attach any sexual orientation to them and don't want them to be used as a part of that debate.
 
2014-07-08 01:49:41 PM  

Teresaol31: Funny, there was a time when I thought that the fundamentalist "Bible Baptists" that went on and on about Bert and Ernie being a gay couple were just strange. (The same group was anti-vax way before anyone saw Jenny McCarthy naked because they thought that letting the health department give your kid a shot for any reason was a way for the kid to get secretly RFID chipped as the mark of the beast, I shiat you not!)

Ask a kid watching Sesame Street who Bert and Ernie are, they will tell you that they are friends who live in the same house.  They are pbviously based on the play/movie/television show the Odd Couple and represent the Felix and Oscar of Sesame Street, showing that two people with clearly different hobbies and priorities can learn to get along and live together.  They are not the Steve and Steve gay married couple (not that there is a thing wrong with that concept, but honestly, if you watch Sesame Street, you will notice that they simply do not address adult interpersonal relationships at all.  They, unlike the perverts that come up with this nonsense, don't think it's appropriate to discuss those things with preschoolers.  Whether it's Bert and Ernie being gay, or the notion that Gordon might take up with a white Mrs., they simply do not discuss such matters on the show!)

As for Bert and Ernie being gay, they don't even sleep in the same bed, so it's all in your heads morons.  Get your filthy minds out of the gutter you sex obsessed theist extremists!  Geez.  Not every damn thing in life has to be about sex, especially a show designed to teach kids preschool skills like getting along, telling the truth, and recognizing colors, shapes, letters, numbers.  Oh, yeah, I guess that would be offended to people that still think that people should isolate themselves from anyone different and only need enough education to read their Bibles!


Green 5 for you.
 
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