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(Mirror.co.uk)   Religious bakery tells customer it won't bake a Bert and Ernie cake because something.. something about gay marriage   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 650
    More: Asinine, faiths, Bible Teach, Sesame Street character, Belfast Telegraph, Icing on the Cake, executive directors  
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8949 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2014 at 9:48 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-08 12:05:50 PM  

Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: I don't think that providing a commercial service that you provide to the general public is "endorsing a particular viewpoint that you disagree with,"

Think of the cake as company letterhead, and it might make more sense to you.  Probably not though.

Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense. Or if I thought of the cake as the company owner's first born son. Or if I thought of the cake as the pair of pants you must be wearing on your head to attempt such a strained analogy.


Is the cake not a representation of the business? It is the product that they present to the public to show their business. It is mountains different than a first born son or a pair of pants. I get that you were going for ridiculous to show what you think of the argument, but come on.

A cake from a bakery is an edible business card with which the bakery promotes their product. It is more akin to letterhead than anything else, especially the two "analogies" that you tossed out without giving so much as a thought to the person who suggested it. People will see a cake and, if well made and tasty, ask who made it. The cake is just as much of an advertisement of the business as a flyer or TV commercial.
 
2014-07-08 12:05:53 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: However, if I were a store owner that sold yoga pants, and I got lots of business from fatties, I damn sure would stay stocked up on fatty yoga pants.


I think you just confirmed my "silly argument"
Free markets usually works to spread freedom to the most people.  In this case you theoretically didn't want to sell to minority "Fat Chicks" but the market forced you to swallow your pride and sell to them anyway.  Freedom isn't free, in this case it cost you eye bleach.   A business that is open to the public is not the same as a Public service provided by the government.  How long do you think Starbucks would last if they decided that your coffee had to match your skin tone.  If you are white you get cream and sugar, Blacks get it straight up.  Yeah they wouldn't last more than a month, problem solved, no need for a new law forcing coffee freedom.  But if the city laws said only athletic red headed woman in skimpy swimsuits can use the public city funded pool, then that is wrong, and will not change until we change the law.  Once the law start forcing people to do stuff they don't want to do, then the government becomes a fascist state.  It doesn't matter if laws are forcing them to do the "right" thing.  One way to look at this is from the point of view of an engineer: Laws are positive feedback, thus will always be taken to the extreme.  Free markets are negative feedback so they generally damp out extreme behavior.
 
2014-07-08 12:06:25 PM  

xtech: GoldSpider: xtech: all these butthurt 'waaah waah i want someone to bake me a cake who doesnt like me' apologists comparing this to the slavery movement.. ROFL.. wow....

And people who don't know what the word "discrimination" means.

move that goalpost more!

good on the crappy bakery for telling the activist to bugger off. what they SHOULD have done is made the cake, but done so in such a way that its not legible.


Or consistently make a Mork and Mindy cake.
 
2014-07-08 12:07:05 PM  

ciberido: maxx2112: Queers can't get a cake.   Nazis can't get a cake.  Therefore, queers are Nazis . . . or something.



Problem solved.


The cross isn't tilted

/SMRT
 
2014-07-08 12:07:38 PM  

Elliot8654: So can I now blame colt and gun manufacturers for endorsing murder since their guns are used for it?


Lots of people do.

Serious Black: Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a Jewish custom t-shirt maker who printed shirts with swastikas on them for a group of white supremacists.


As should be their CHOICE.  I'd say a Jew would be well within his/her rights to refuse to print such a message.

Theaetetus: GoldSpider's probably also concerned about the white restaurant owners who were forced to serve black patrons and were worried that their KKK friends might conclude that they were okay with desegregation.


Again, willful misunderstanding of "discrimination" and how it applies in this case.

xtech: move that goalpost more!


I was agreeing with you.
 
2014-07-08 12:08:00 PM  

Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense.

You mean you don't understand how someone might conclude that you endorse a message you print on a cake you sold, in a box (presumably) with your company's name?

Hey, GoldSpider...
[d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net image 556x313]
That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right? And, for that matter, so must Drew since it's here. And  you own the computer, so therefore  you must endorse it too. In fact, let's just hold that anyone who is in any way related to the transmission of that message - from the ISPs to the manufacturers of the copper wire on the poles to everyone who ever touched a single capacitor used in either of our computers - endorses that message. That makes sense, right?


The terms of service of the various parties involved disagrees with the point you're trying to make. Though I suppose that the bakery could have put small text on the cake under the marriage equality slogan. Would that make you happy?
 
2014-07-08 12:09:26 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: I don't think that providing a commercial service that you provide to the general public is "endorsing a particular viewpoint that you disagree with,"

Think of the cake as company letterhead, and it might make more sense to you.  Probably not though.

Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense. Or if I thought of the cake as the company owner's first born son. Or if I thought of the cake as the pair of pants you must be wearing on your head to attempt such a strained analogy.

Is the cake not a representation of the business? It is the product that they present to the public to show their business. It is mountains different than a first born son or a pair of pants. I get that you were going for ridiculous to show what you think of the argument, but come on.

A cake from a bakery is an edible business card with which the bakery promotes their product. It is more akin to letterhead than anything else, especially the two "analogies" that you tossed out without giving so much as a thought to the person who suggested it. People will see a cake and, if well made and tasty, ask who made it. The cake is just as much of an advertisement of the business as a flyer or TV commercial.


If their cake tastes awful, it's a sign the cake shop sucks.

If the cake says something you don't like, it's a sign the guy who ordered the cake believes it, not the cake shop.

You do realize that the same t shirt manufacturers
make both Democrat and Republican shirts! How can they clearly believe both parties at the same time???
 
2014-07-08 12:09:34 PM  
Anyone else think it's creepy using images of a childlike muppet to promote a sexual orientation choice?  It seems more like a NAMBLA deal than a gay marriage deal to me.

I don't really care much about the debate either way.  It's not my business.
 
2014-07-08 12:09:45 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Deedeemarz: Then I suggest they make it themselves, have one delivered, or move. If you choose to live in an area where your options are that limited then I suppose you better learn to make do with what's available. Still not a reason to impose upon a local business person who isn't interested in having your business whatever the reason. If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.

I'll let The Cap speak on this suggestion

[static.comicvine.com image 850x600]


That comic actually works both ways. :-P
 
2014-07-08 12:09:58 PM  
You guys are missing the entire point of this discussion.

WHAT KIND OF CAKE WAS IT?!

/Ice cream? Please say ice cream!
 
2014-07-08 12:10:00 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: I don't think that providing a commercial service that you provide to the general public is "endorsing a particular viewpoint that you disagree with,"

Think of the cake as company letterhead, and it might make more sense to you.  Probably not though.

Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense. Or if I thought of the cake as the company owner's first born son. Or if I thought of the cake as the pair of pants you must be wearing on your head to attempt such a strained analogy.

Is the cake not a representation of the business? It is the product that they present to the public to show their business. It is mountains different than a first born son or a pair of pants. I get that you were going for ridiculous to show what you think of the argument, but come on.


No, it's not, because they make custom cakes as requested by the customer. Specifically, they don't design cakes - they make sheet cakes and print an image on the face. It doesn't include any creative input from them.

A cake from a bakery is an edible business card with which the bakery promotes their product.

Not if the cake has no identifying marks on it and is indistinguishable from the sheet cake you can get at a grocery.

It is more akin to letterhead than anything else, especially the two "analogies" that you tossed out without giving so much as a thought to the person who suggested it.

Not at all. A better comparison would be to say that the companies who make printer paper are making company letterhead - since it's actually, you know, letterhead - and say that they explicitly endorse any message that anyone prints on their paper. No one would believe that to be true, just as no one believes GoldSpider endorses gay marriage because of that colorful banner that appeared on his personally-owned and operated computer screen a few minutes ago.
 
2014-07-08 12:10:45 PM  

Theaetetus: That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right?


Deliberately misunderstanding/misrepresenting a point doesn't make you appear smarter.  It makes you appear disingenuous.
 
2014-07-08 12:11:05 PM  

Frank N Stein: Elliot8654: Frank N Stein: Elliot8654: ReverendJasen: Elliot8654: They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

They're allowed to.  Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will.  They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

So if I order a cake that says "Dave and Rebecca forever" I am good, but if it says "bill and Jims love will never die" or maybe "to the love of Amanda and sharon"?

Ooh! I wanna order a cake labeled "Alex and Sam's wedding:2014". See if they can tell if it is for a day mens, lesbians, or straight couples cake!

It's at the baker's discretion. Why should they be obligated to provide you a service/product that they do not wish to provide? Furthermore, why not just go to another bakery?

But they clearly do wish to provide the service and make money, or they wouldn't run a bakery.

Simply running a business is not concent to a requirement that they must make every product related to the nature of their business.


You're right no it doesn't. However, when we create a bifurcated model in commerce, such as blacks can only go these stores, or Jewsish money is only welcome at these sorts of stores, it creates a massive disruption in commerce. The market now has to replicate goods services that do the exact same thing and creates a situation in which money is not going to most efficient means of producing goods and services, but rather towards an increasingly over-competitive and unstable market, in which artificial exclusion  hampers the ability of all groups to spend their money on needed/wanted goods and services.

 The principle at play is that money is money, a business owner is well within there rights to refuse the business of a disruption to commerce, say like a unruly customer, or someone who refuses to pay for the good or service at the agreed upon time, or baking something like a penis cake because the creation and sale of such a good is obscene and graphic in nature (internationally so) and may create undue disruption in the sale of other goods.
 
2014-07-08 12:11:06 PM  

Theaetetus: That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right? And, for that matter, so must Drew since it's here. And  you own the computer, so therefore  you must endorse it too. In fact, let's just hold that anyone who is in any way related to the transmission of that message - from the ISPs to the manufacturers of the copper wire on the poles to everyone who ever touched a single capacitor used in either of our computers - endorses that message. That makes sense, right?


Man, that's a tortured analogy, especially for someone trying to tear down what they consider to be a tortured analogy.

In GoldSpider's case, you have the business' products being specifically created to display a set message that cannot be changed or deleted on a whim in contravention to the beliefs of those that created it.

In your case, you have business' product being used to display an image, one of many it is capable of displaying at any given time. An image that was not created by the makers of the computer or any of the other myriad individuals or businesses that you listed. It was created by another, disseminated by you, and displayed without control.

How could you possibly conflate the two is beyond me.
 
2014-07-08 12:11:13 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.


I totally agree.  The bakery was torally out of bounds when they refused to make that cake with Obama blowing George Soros while Michelle takes him from behind with her strap on.
 
2014-07-08 12:11:29 PM  

GoldSpider: Theaetetus: GoldSpider's probably also concerned about the white restaurant owners who were forced to serve black patrons and were worried that their KKK friends might conclude that they were okay with desegregation.

Again, willful misunderstanding of "discrimination" and how it applies in this case.


Pro-tip: merely insisting that everyone is misunderstanding the point doesn't actually convince anyone. You have to at least provide some argument as to what you believe the proper understanding is.
 
2014-07-08 12:12:47 PM  

Theaetetus: Pro-tip: merely insisting that everyone is misunderstanding the point doesn't actually convince anyone.


Oh I'm sure you understand it just fine.  You're simply being obtuse and disingenuous.
 
2014-07-08 12:12:58 PM  

Mad Scientist: Do you really want to eat food prepared by people who hate you?


So, I'm at risk every night?


/married
//it's a joke son
//slashies LIVE!
 
2014-07-08 12:13:05 PM  

Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense.

You mean you don't understand how someone might conclude that you endorse a message you print on a cake you sold, in a box (presumably) with your company's name?

Hey, GoldSpider...
[d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net image 556x313]
That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right? And, for that matter, so must Drew since it's here. And  you own the computer, so therefore  you must endorse it too. In fact, let's just hold that anyone who is in any way related to the transmission of that message - from the ISPs to the manufacturers of the copper wire on the poles to everyone who ever touched a single capacitor used in either of our computers - endorses that message. That makes sense, right?

The terms of service of the various parties involved disagrees with the point you're trying to make. Though I suppose that the bakery could have put small text on the cake under the marriage equality slogan. Would that make you happy?


Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?
 
2014-07-08 12:13:18 PM  

mainstreet62: You guys are missing the entire point of this discussion.

WHAT KIND OF CAKE WAS IT?!

/Ice cream? Please say ice cream!


I like ice cream cake. Cheaper cakes, like the ones you buy at the supermarket, are awful. The frosting tends to be way too sweet for my liking. I know fark all about cakes, so maybe someone here can help me be a more discerning cake shopper. What kind of frosting is it that isn't the fluffy super-sweet stuff on seemingly most cakes? I like the richer, more creamy or buttery type frosting. That's the good shiat, and I want to know what it's called.
 
2014-07-08 12:13:25 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

I totally agree.  The bakery was torally out of bounds when they refused to make that cake with Obama blowing George Soros while Michelle takes him from behind with her strap on.


You forgot Hillary riding Biden who was holding Michelle's reins with his teeth
 
2014-07-08 12:13:59 PM  

GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Pro-tip: merely insisting that everyone is misunderstanding the point doesn't actually convince anyone.

Oh I'm sure you understand it just fine.  You're simply being obtuse and disingenuous.


Not at all. I have no clue what you think discrimination means, since you apparently think custom-printed sheet cakes are corporate letterhead.
 
2014-07-08 12:14:52 PM  

kling_klang_bed: [cdn-www.i-am-bored.com image 480x381]


img.fark.net

Is Bigbird rubbing one out back there?
 
2014-07-08 12:14:54 PM  

Serious Black: MonoChango: Serious Black: MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

Forcing someone to do something that is against their belief system is bad. Even if their belief is wierd, stupid or just something you just don't like. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not going to tell a baker he can't be stupid. Nor am I going to tell gay guys they can't go have fun doing whatever they want to do. The main point here is that Burt and Ernie are NOT gay. Two guys that sleep in the same room are room mates and anyone who turns them into that just make a political point should just go DIAF. Quit screwing up my childhood!

I run a deli. I think women who are on their periods are poisonous and risk ruining society. I want to force women to reveal their cooters to me or a designated representative and prove that they are not gushing blood out of their twat before I allow them to come inside. Do you support my position?

"As long as it doesn't hurt anyone,
" Sexual assult would not qualify

I didn't say I or my designated representative would have to shove something inside their vagina to get the necessary proof. Women just have to reveal their crotches and provide visual evidence that they aren't bleeding profusely. That doesn't count as sexual assault because there is no physical contact. What's the harm in just looking?


I'm no lawyer but forcing someone to expose themselves to you is usually frowned upon in this country.
 
2014-07-08 12:15:03 PM  

nekom: So let's get this gay marriage thing going!  Shall we call our elected representatives?  No, how about we go to the media to present our side?  NO!  Wait, I got it!  We'll get a cake made!  BRILLIANT!


Considering that we're posting in Fark about a news article about the issue, I'd say that they are more savvy that you think.
 
2014-07-08 12:15:48 PM  

Pubby: Frank N Stein: Elliot8654: Frank N Stein: Elliot8654: ReverendJasen: Elliot8654: They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

They're allowed to.  Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will.  They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

So if I order a cake that says "Dave and Rebecca forever" I am good, but if it says "bill and Jims love will never die" or maybe "to the love of Amanda and sharon"?

Ooh! I wanna order a cake labeled "Alex and Sam's wedding:2014". See if they can tell if it is for a day mens, lesbians, or straight couples cake!

It's at the baker's discretion. Why should they be obligated to provide you a service/product that they do not wish to provide? Furthermore, why not just go to another bakery?

But they clearly do wish to provide the service and make money, or they wouldn't run a bakery.

Simply running a business is not concent to a requirement that they must make every product related to the nature of their business.

You're right no it doesn't. However, when we create a bifurcated model in commerce, such as blacks can only go these stores, or Jewsish money is only welcome at these sorts of stores, it creates a massive disruption in commerce. The market now has to replicate goods services that do the exact same thing and creates a situation in which money is not going to most efficient means of producing goods and services, but rather towards an increasingly over-competitive and unstable market, in which artificial exclusion  hampers the ability of all groups to spend their money on needed/wanted goods and services.

 The principle at play is that money is money, a business owner is well within there rights to refuse the business of a disruption to commerce, say like a u ...


I agree that outright refusing service for someone based on sexual orientation, race, religion etc is wrong. However, the issue here is the product catered, not the service in general. If the same baker refused to make a "WHITE PRIDE WORLD WIDE" cake, that doesn't mean he's discriminating against white people.
 
2014-07-08 12:15:59 PM  

Theaetetus: GoldSpider: Theaetetus: Yes, if I thought of the cake as company letterhead, then it might make more sense.

You mean you don't understand how someone might conclude that you endorse a message you print on a cake you sold, in a box (presumably) with your company's name?

Hey, GoldSpider...
[d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net image 556x313]
That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right? And, for that matter, so must Drew since it's here. And  you own the computer, so therefore  you must endorse it too. In fact, let's just hold that anyone who is in any way related to the transmission of that message - from the ISPs to the manufacturers of the copper wire on the poles to everyone who ever touched a single capacitor used in either of our computers - endorses that message. That makes sense, right?


stop responding to the bath salt troll guys aka Theaetetus
 
2014-07-08 12:16:01 PM  

Theaetetus: No, it's not, because they make custom cakes as requested by the customer. Specifically, they don't design cakes - they make sheet cakes and print an image on the face. It doesn't include any creative input from them.


Not according to the pictures on their website.

Theaetetus: Not if the cake has no identifying marks on it and is indistinguishable from the sheet cake you can get at a grocery.


So when it comes in a box that clearly says "Asher's Baking Company..."

Theaetetus: just as no one believes GoldSpider endorses gay marriage because of that colorful banner that appeared on his personally-owned and operated computer screen a few minutes ago.


Probably because no one but you conflates creating an image with displaying an image that you did not create.
 
2014-07-08 12:16:15 PM  

MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: However, if I were a store owner that sold yoga pants, and I got lots of business from fatties, I damn sure would stay stocked up on fatty yoga pants.

I think you just confirmed my "silly argument"
Free markets usually works to spread freedom to the most people.  In this case you theoretically didn't want to sell to minority "Fat Chicks" but the market forced you to swallow your pride and sell to them anyway.  Freedom isn't free, in this case it cost you eye bleach.   A business that is open to the public is not the same as a Public service provided by the government.  How long do you think Starbucks would last if they decided that your coffee had to match your skin tone.  If you are white you get cream and sugar, Blacks get it straight up.  Yeah they wouldn't last more than a month, problem solved, no need for a new law forcing coffee freedom.  But if the city laws said only athletic red headed woman in skimpy swimsuits can use the public city funded pool, then that is wrong, and will not change until we change the law.  Once the law start forcing people to do stuff they don't want to do, then the government becomes a fascist state.  It doesn't matter if laws are forcing them to do the "right" thing.  One way to look at this is from the point of view of an engineer: Laws are positive feedback, thus will always be taken to the extreme.  Free markets are negative feedback so they generally damp out extreme behavior.


word salad.  I have no idea what you're getting at, and no, I don't even want to dissect this with you.
 
2014-07-08 12:16:41 PM  

xtech: stop responding to the bath salt troll guys aka Theaetetus


"Bath Salt Troll"?  I want to know more.
 
2014-07-08 12:16:42 PM  

ciberido: In the USA at least, there is the concept of  public accommodations.  A bakery is a public accommodation.  IANAL but I don't think the laws regarding public accommodation would apply to a contractor refusing to put in a bid to build a Chick-Fil-A.


To be clear, I realize that TFA was about a bakery in the UK, not in the USA.  Perhaps someone can comment on whether or not the UK has a legal concept similar to our "public accommodation."
 
2014-07-08 12:17:13 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: That just appeared on your computer screen. Therefore, your computer manufacture must endorse that message, right? And, for that matter, so must Drew since it's here. And  you own the computer, so therefore  you must endorse it too. In fact, let's just hold that anyone who is in any way related to the transmission of that message - from the ISPs to the manufacturers of the copper wire on the poles to everyone who ever touched a single capacitor used in either of our computers - endorses that message. That makes sense, right?

Man, that's a tortured analogy, especially for someone trying to tear down what they consider to be a tortured analogy.


... yes, that's the point. It is as equally tortured an analogy as claiming a cake is corporate letterhead. No reasonable person could agree with the statement I made. Glad you agree.

In GoldSpider's case, you have the business' products being specifically created to display a set message that cannot be changed or deleted on a whim in contravention to the beliefs of those that created it.

You can't "change or delete on a whim" that post I made, regardless of your beliefs, nor can your computer manufacturer. Neither you nor they have any responsibility for the content... you know, like a cake manufacturer who prints a customer-requested image on the face of a cake.
Kinda like this:
In your case, you have business' product being used to display an image, one of many it is capable of displaying at any given time. An image that was not created by the makers of the computer or any of the other myriad individuals or businesses that you listed. It was created by another, disseminated by you, and displayed without control.
 
2014-07-08 12:17:18 PM  

Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?


I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?
 
2014-07-08 12:18:11 PM  

Frank N Stein: What kind of frosting is it that isn't the fluffy super-sweet stuff on seemingly most cakes? I like the richer, more creamy or buttery type frosting. That's the good shiat, and I want to know what it's called.


Buttercream.
But you may also like carrot cake frosting, with its cream cheese base, for the same reason.
 
2014-07-08 12:18:33 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

I totally agree.  The bakery was torally out of bounds when they refused to make that cake with Obama blowing George Soros while Michelle takes him from behind with her strap on.


of course, because that's exactly the same.

piss off
 
2014-07-08 12:18:34 PM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: That's the other thing that bugs me about the gay community.  Where is their 'tolerance' for those who don't agree with their lifestyle?

Tolerance works both ways.


Tolerance of intolerance is no virtue.
 
2014-07-08 12:18:43 PM  

Circusdog320: Where did Jesus say love everybody except gay people?


When did he say anything about sex, other than telling an adulterer not to do it again?
 
2014-07-08 12:19:15 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: The only reason CTW refused to take a clear stand is because it's a controversial issue

Tom_Slick: No they took a stand because they are puppets aimed at children not a political show.


Horse Hockey. "Taking a stand" would have been "No, they're not gay, they both like girls" or "yes they're gay, deal with it"

Given that many muppets have a clear and obvious heterosexual orientation, saying "They have no sexual orientation, they're puppets" is the exact opposite of "taking a stand" - it's a complete cop-out in the hopes of avoiding the issue so they don't have to deal with the small minded anger of a bunch of knuckledragging bigots, or the scornful derision of gay activists.
 

Tom_Slick: They can show 2 people of the same sex living together without discussing their sex life

. Children will relate to it as it fits what they see around them.


They can also show 2 people of the same sex living together without discussing their sex life. Children will relate to it as it fits what they see around them.

But what's interesting here is the way you  switched from talking about "sexual orientation" to talking about "sex life", because I think we can all agree that talking about anyone's sex life on SS is inappropriate, regardless of orientation. Do you disagree? But that little switcheroo is pretty common in discussion with people who are opposed to "normalizing" gay relationships. Are you one of those people, Tom_Slick?
 
2014-07-08 12:19:26 PM  

Theaetetus: I have no clue what you think discrimination means


Perhaps you should read my posts upthread then, if you're genuinely curious.
 
2014-07-08 12:19:45 PM  

Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?


I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?
 
2014-07-08 12:20:48 PM  

GoldSpider: Theaetetus: I have no clue what you think discrimination means

Perhaps you should read my posts upthread then, if you're genuinely curious.


I did. Didn't see one definition there. Maybe you're referring to another thread?
 
2014-07-08 12:20:56 PM  

MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: However, if I were a store owner that sold yoga pants, and I got lots of business from fatties, I damn sure would stay stocked up on fatty yoga pants.

I think you just confirmed my "silly argument"
Free markets usually works to spread freedom to the most people.  In this case you theoretically didn't want to sell to minority "Fat Chicks" but the market forced you to swallow your pride and sell to them anyway.  Freedom isn't free, in this case it cost you eye bleach.   A business that is open to the public is not the same as a Public service provided by the government.  How long do you think Starbucks would last if they decided that your coffee had to match your skin tone.  If you are white you get cream and sugar, Blacks get it straight up.  Yeah they wouldn't last more than a month, problem solved, no need for a new law forcing coffee freedom.  But if the city laws said only athletic red headed woman in skimpy swimsuits can use the public city funded pool, then that is wrong, and will not change until we change the law.  Once the law start forcing people to do stuff they don't want to do, then the government becomes a fascist state.  It doesn't matter if laws are forcing them to do the "right" thing.  One way to look at this is from the point of view of an engineer: Laws are positive feedback, thus will always be taken to the extreme.  Free markets are negative feedback so they generally damp out extreme behavior.


Generally I agree with this statement... The counter to that though is of course are protected classes of people. If a business puts up a sign that says "Whites Only" they won't go out of business, as was the case 60 years ago in the south. But as a nation we decided that discrimination of people based on race, sex, or religion was illegal and for damn good reason. Until the nation protects sexual orientation the same way it protects race, sex, and religion, then we are going to see more and more of this. But gays are SO far disadvantaged in this fight, I don't think they will become protected for at least another 25 years and that's ONLY if we stop moving towards a theocracy as a nation.
 
2014-07-08 12:22:12 PM  

Deathfrogg: To The Escape Zeppelin!: Am I the only one who always assumed that Bert and Ernie were brothers?

When I was a little kid, I figured they were cousins or something. Hell, they slept in the same bed and everything just like I did when my cousins came over to visit. I slept in the same bed with my brother until I was 7.


Go on...
 
2014-07-08 12:22:37 PM  

Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?


That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.
 
2014-07-08 12:22:59 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Theaetetus: No, it's not, because they make custom cakes as requested by the customer. Specifically, they don't design cakes - they make sheet cakes and print an image on the face. It doesn't include any creative input from them.

Not according to the pictures on their website.


According to another article, this was the picture that the customers wanted printed on a sheet cake:
cdn3.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Theaetetus: Not if the cake has no identifying marks on it and is indistinguishable from the sheet cake you can get at a grocery.

So when it comes in a box that clearly says "Asher's Baking Company..."


Ah, so you agree that the  box may be corporate letterhead, but not the  cake?

Theaetetus: just as no one believes GoldSpider endorses gay marriage because of that colorful banner that appeared on his personally-owned and operated computer screen a few minutes ago.

Probably because no one but you conflates creating an image with displaying an image that you did not create.


And no reasonable person would conflate printing a customer-requested image on a sheet cake with corporate letterhead.
 
2014-07-08 12:23:09 PM  

highwayrun: soporific: maxx2112: Queers can't get a cake.   Nazis can't get a cake.  Therefore, queers are Nazis . . . or something.

Now I really want to see a child named Judas Iscariot. (And it works for a boy or a girl.) Or perhaps Bennedict Arnold.

/because I apparently hate children today
//at least we're not naming a boy Sue
///let's name a boy Sue

A family friend had an informal contest and the winner would win the ostensible right to name her baby. My entry, little Darth Lebron Osama bin Nelson, didn't win and she went with my brother's suggestion, Garrett.


assets.vg247.com

Well, he may be destined for a life of crime, but at least he has a good chance of breaking out of prison.
 
2014-07-08 12:24:04 PM  
Frank N Stein:
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

Because they did? Maybe try reading the articles.
The councillor, who hosted the event during his term as mayor of North Down, said another bakery in Bangor stepped in and accepted the cake order.

Moreover, it's not the customer suing the bakery:

The County Antrim firm could face legal action from the Equality Commission.

But please keep talking out your ass. It lets us all know where your brain is.
 
2014-07-08 12:24:21 PM  

doubled99: Except that being gay is not a "lifestyle." It's who a person is. So, if you love someone, you have to love all of them, even if that means that you are accepting that a part of them is not what you hoped for.


Oh, is that the rule?


Yes. Love someone=love them. I expect you to love your kid/brother/sister/niece/nephew/best friend/whoever even if they turn out to be gay. If you can't handle that, you do not love them. Get it?
 
2014-07-08 12:24:25 PM  

Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Frank N Stein: Theaetetus: Or they could put on their contract that they are not responsible for the content of any customer-requested message. Would that make you happy, or do you insist that the bakery must shove their bigotry in everyone's face?

I suppose if the bakery wants to do that, it's a valid solution. However, refusing to make a specific cake is also a solution as well.
Why can't the customers just go to another bakery if they insist on a specific product?

I suppose if the lunch counter wants to print on the backs of their checks that they don't endorse any racial beliefs of their customers, that's a valid solution. However, refusing to serve black people is also a solution as well. Why can't those darkies just go to another lunch counter if they insist on eating at a restaurant?

That's a different issue because in your scenario, it's an outright refusal to serve a group of people, whereas this whole bakery thing is about refusing to create a specific product.

But you already knew that. You're just running out of valid arguments.


They refused to serve these customers. No mention was made of alternate products. But you knew that, too, since you read the article, right?
 
2014-07-08 12:25:23 PM  

GoldSpider: xtech: stop responding to the bath salt troll guys aka Theaetetus

"Bath Salt Troll"?  I want to know more.


I think xtech was saying that he did bath salts and sees trolls everywhere now.
 
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