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(Network World)   Google CEO Larry Page wants us all to work a lot less ... and have a pony   (networkworld.com) divider line 116
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4318 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2014 at 4:56 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-07 02:44:10 PM
It's not inconceivable, but you'll have to settle for having about the same amount of stuff as your neighbor even though you totally deserve way more.
 
2014-07-07 03:21:47 PM
He's right.

Not all jobs would be eliminated, especially early on. But a lot could be overtime with the right programs to eliminate them. And unemployed people would receive universal income. And the richest would be a lot less rich. A LOT. That's why they're scared about it.

What would people do? Anything they want to do. Right now a lot of people do the bare minimum at work. Imagine if those people had other hobbies or activities, like helping out people who need it, or reading, or writing, or acting, or dance. Whatever they want to do if they had the time.

In the United States though? It'll be slow going, with the mere concept of universal income being viewed as Communism.

Just make sure you give people some big incentives to not have more than 2 kids.

Still though - lots to be done. Lots of robots to create
 
2014-07-07 03:55:58 PM
I think the system needs a dramatic shock.   Two things at once to shake up our crap economic system:

* Single payer healthcare system.
* One national bank, the Fed.


See if we can get unemployment up to 50% and get all those useless people to pick lettuce for a living.
 
2014-07-07 04:15:34 PM
I have no room for a pony. Nor a desire for one. And ponies become horses.

Therefore I must be against this new Socio-Econ theory, PonyEconism.
 
2014-07-07 04:18:35 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-07-07 04:28:35 PM
Yup, we are quickly approaching a world similar to that of The Expanse books.  With continued increases in productivity and automation, we are going to reach the point where there are more people than jobs.  We are already seeing the effect in regards to the slow recovery and the general stagnation in middle class income of the last 20 years.  This is something we are going to have to address, and as he mentions it wouldn't be that hard.  My hunch is we could provide safe clean housing and food for the non-working population today by simply taking it from the military budget, and that would still leave us spending more money on the military than any other country in the world.
 
2014-07-07 04:39:13 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yup, we are quickly approaching a world similar to that of The Expanse books.  With continued increases in productivity and automation, we are going to reach the point where there are more people than jobs.  We are already seeing the effect in regards to the slow recovery and the general stagnation in middle class income of the last 20 years.  This is something we are going to have to address, and as he mentions it wouldn't be that hard.  My hunch is we could provide safe clean housing and food for the non-working population today by simply taking it from the military budget, and that would still leave us spending more money on the military than any other country in the world.


This isn't a problem of resources.  This is a problem of ATTITUDE.  As you can read in the blogger's message, he doesn't even understand what is being discussed since he is so "in the weeds" of his own families needs and what he needs to do to provide for them.

There is a stigma associated with not contributing that needs to be addressed, either by reducing everyone's hours so more people do less work but get the same standard of living, or some kind of "good" Logan's Run, where mandatory retirement is at, say, 40 and you have a guaranteed standard of living after that.
 
2014-07-07 04:58:36 PM

Captain Steroid: [i1182.photobucket.com image 320x204]


I love this guy.
 
2014-07-07 05:04:55 PM
I'm naming my pony Mr Bojangles.
 
2014-07-07 05:05:57 PM

bdub77: He's right.

Not all jobs would be eliminated, especially early on. But a lot could be overtime with the right programs to eliminate them. And unemployed people would receive universal income. And the richest would be a lot less rich. A LOT. That's why they're scared about it.

What would people do? Anything they want to do. Right now a lot of people do the bare minimum at work. Imagine if those people had other hobbies or activities, like helping out people who need it, or reading, or writing, or acting, or dance. Whatever they want to do if they had the time.

In the United States though? It'll be slow going, with the mere concept of universal income being viewed as Communism.

Just make sure you give people some big incentives to not have more than 2 kids.

Still though - lots to be done. Lots of robots to create


You just have to word it correctly.

I've seen some otherwise right wing reactionaries actually contemplating a universal income as long as we could get rid of all the other social safety net programs, and finding it favorable.
 
2014-07-07 05:08:43 PM

SpdrJay: I'm naming my pony Mr Bojangles.


Subby will just step on him.
 
2014-07-07 05:08:59 PM
Yeah, and how am I supposed to get paid to Fark?
 
2014-07-07 05:09:25 PM
The folks at the top could stop charging people for crap and they would still be able to live their lives out in luxury. It's about control and power.
 
2014-07-07 05:09:28 PM
All well and good but soon we'll reach peak pony, then where will we be.
 
2014-07-07 05:09:55 PM

bdub77: He's right.

Not all jobs would be eliminated, especially early on. But a lot could be overtime with the right programs to eliminate them. And unemployed people would receive universal income. And the richest would be a lot less rich. A LOT. That's why they're scared about it.

What would people do? Anything they want to do. Right now a lot of people do the bare minimum at work. Imagine if those people had other hobbies or activities, like helping out people who need it, or reading, or writing, or acting, or dance. Whatever they want to do if they had the time.

In the United States though? It'll be slow going, with the mere concept of universal income being viewed as Communism.

Just make sure you give people some big incentives to not have more than 2 kids.

Still though - lots to be done. Lots of robots to create



What he said reminded me of this article I read today.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/your_lifestyle_has_already_been_d es igned/

The problem is that the economic system and consumer culture that has been built around it don't reflect our values.   It's the mindless pursuit of accumulating stuff, which is ultimately deeply unsatisfying to most people.
 
2014-07-07 05:10:01 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Yeah, and how am I supposed to get paid to Fark?


Brazzers?
 
2014-07-07 05:11:23 PM
Rich people are liars. That includes gates, larry ellison, page sergey brin, and the rest of them. No one buys your 1% bullsh*t, we don't believe you when you speak, because you speak with the media in your face & most crap you spew is garbage. Thanks!: the rest of the world.
 
2014-07-07 05:15:43 PM
What is wrong with having a pony?!?

www.lasportsanostra.com
 
2014-07-07 05:20:01 PM
No one owns me.
 
2014-07-07 05:23:38 PM

Best Princess Celestia: No one owns me.


No one would want to.
 
2014-07-07 05:30:32 PM
Came here for:
currentwiki.mindseyesociety.org

Left having to do all the damn work myself.
 
2014-07-07 05:32:47 PM
the industrial revolution is calling, it what's its pie in the sky idealism back.

/ they made the same argument about the virtues of the dawn of the machines.  said we would have a utopia of the mind and arts and goodness, as work would be dramatically reduced and people could focus on the good things in life.
 
2014-07-07 05:33:47 PM

Darth_Lukecash: I have no room for a pony. Nor a desire for one. And ponies become horses.



No they don't, they become old ponies.
 
2014-07-07 05:36:29 PM
Mmmmmmm barbequed pony.
 
2014-07-07 05:38:55 PM

Darth_Lukecash: I have no room for a pony. Nor a desire for one. And ponies become horses.

Therefore I must be against this new Socio-Econ theory, PonyEconism.


Colts and fillies become horses. Ponies are small equines under 14 hands at the withers (56 inches, or 4' 8") at the withers, fully grown. And bronies ... bronies are just a sad embarrassment.
 
2014-07-07 05:45:28 PM
"Then let them eat cake pony!"
 
2014-07-07 05:46:53 PM
I want Larry Page to give me a job.
 
2014-07-07 05:47:04 PM
So he's going to cut everyone's hours while still paying them the same or better, and hand out 4 weeks of vacation time to all his employees?
Nope, didn't think so.
 
2014-07-07 05:49:32 PM

ReverendJynxed: The folks at the top could stop charging people for crap and they would still be able to live their lives out in luxury. It's about control and power.


The first thing that could be done is to stop spending money on crap.  Phones and cable for starters.  You really do not need to be spending a couple thousand dollars a year on toys and brainless mind rot.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-07-07 05:50:06 PM
anticap.files.wordpress.com
There is ONE reason we aren't working less hours and it's the same reason everything else is so screwed up: corporations have too much power in U.S. society.
 
2014-07-07 05:50:07 PM
He has that sort of jugheaded, glazed over about him that is usually found in trustafarians and 4th generation royals and other upper class twits.  That is a face of a man who gets up every day and says "I can't believe I'm getting away with this sh*t."

images.techhive.com
 
2014-07-07 05:50:39 PM
fc01.deviantart.net

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yup, we are quickly approaching a world similar to that of The Expanse books.  With continued increases in productivity and automation, we are going to reach the point where there are more people than jobs.  We are already seeing the effect in regards to the slow recovery and the general stagnation in middle class income of the last 20 years.  This is something we are going to have to address, and as he mentions it wouldn't be that hard.  My hunch is we could provide safe clean housing and food for the non-working population today by simply taking it from the military budget, and that would still leave us spending more money on the military than any other country in the world.


radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-07 05:52:19 PM

Smeggy Smurf: The first thing that could be done is to stop spending money on crap.  Phones and cable for starters.  You really do not need to be spending a couple thousand dollars a year on toys and brainless mind rot.


But the future!  And commies!  And G4 connectivity!

d23: corporations have too much power in U.S. society.


Inasmuch as they are now the de factdo government in the west, I'd say most likely.
 
2014-07-07 05:54:53 PM
www.madogmusic.com
 
2014-07-07 05:54:53 PM
i2.tinypic.com
 
2014-07-07 05:55:17 PM
Since charity work is mostly unpaid, plus unpaid internships etc. according to Bureau of Labor Statistics records:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/volun.nr0.htm

From 2009 - 2013 and average of ~63,506,200 people each year gave 52 hours a year in terms of volunteerism to 1 or more organizations.

So that means that in an average year ~3,302,322,400 hours of volunteer work is being produced each year.

Haemaker suggests that blogger is so busy with their own problems that they can't understand why it is important for economic values to be placed on the everyday struggles of living, when these economic issues should be what is being incentivized to be corrected.

Roughly $75 Billion dollars worth of volunteer work is going unincorporated into the overall GDP calculations.
What is the value of good parenting?
It costs ~$10,000 a year for a child to attend a school each year from K-12 so 120,000
It costs ~$90,000 a year for a child to be incarcerated in a juvenile detention center each year.
What is the value of education over incarceration?
It costs ~4,000 to send a person to Community college per year. (average)
It costs ~9,000 to send a person to a Technical college per year. (average)
It costs ~$25,000 a year to send a person to college per year. (average)
It costs ~$40,000 a year to send a person to prison per year. (average)

How many tax payer dollars could have been redirected towards other investments, or not even have to be collected if we didn't have the 200,000 juvenile incarcerations and roughly 3,000,000 adult prisoners in our prison systems each year.

Or, since we don't have a perfect society and people don't always act in the best manner to one another, lets just say that 2/3rds of the people could be redirected (that is a low number, as 85% of homeless people, when given the chance to reintegrate into society, are willing and able to break their own cycle of homelessness and self-destructiveness within 6 months)

What if we incentivized parenting, and education with bonuses for the household?
Right now we incentivize one parent or both parents to go out and work, leaving the children either with other relatives, daycare, or nothing.
So we are actually incentivizing poor parenting, which costs the household and eventually the country's tax payers ~130 Billion dollars a year, not inclusive of the damages of the crimes that were committed by the criminals/delinquents that got them put into the system in the first place.

So between valuing volunteer hours, and reducing incarcerations, and educating the next generation we could be saving taxpayers ~150 Billion dollars a year or dividing by ~115 Million households, each household could be saving ~$1,304.00 on their annual taxes, or it could be redirected to some other function, like health care or mental health or anything else that becomes the next pressing issue.
 
2014-07-07 05:57:46 PM

Acravius: It costs ~$90,000 a year for a child to be incarcerated in a juvenile detention center each year.


And you know, it doesn't really.  At all.  They GET that much.  It costs next to nothing.

www.hungerisunacceptable.com
 
2014-07-07 06:01:10 PM

Darth_Lukecash: I have no room for a pony.


How about a retarded goat? Work is play! Tofutti break!
 
2014-07-07 06:06:29 PM

Shrugging Atlas: All well and good but soon we'll reach peak pony, then where will we be.


media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2014-07-07 06:07:45 PM
www.iww.org
 
2014-07-07 06:10:33 PM
See, the thing about capitalism, is it works fine when it's a single part of a system that also embraces socialism and parts of communism.  Corporate capitalism is scorched earth and has NOTHING to do with the sort of market stall capitalism that's on the label.

And, as we have discovered after the post WWII consumer culture that drove the market from '45 to '65 that created a brief spate of working and middle class wealth slid into the cesspit of profit über alles, the bits of America that actually worked were largely socialism based.

Until companies based here come up with an ethic for growth and development that is not based upon "How much paint can we pry off the wall with this new idea while we're taking out the floorboards and the kitchen sink", it's just gonna keep falling out of the hands of the people who bring the money in the door and into those of the people who keep it.

Capitalism sh*t the bed her a long time ago.  This is feudal oligarchy and you had better have a Jim dandy patch sewn on your sleeve when the other shoe drops.
 
2014-07-07 06:10:57 PM

fusillade762: [fc01.deviantart.net image 850x850]


My Little Buttstallion?
 
2014-07-07 06:11:33 PM

Chummer45: bdub77: He's right.

Not all jobs would be eliminated, especially early on. But a lot could be overtime with the right programs to eliminate them. And unemployed people would receive universal income. And the richest would be a lot less rich. A LOT. That's why they're scared about it.

What would people do? Anything they want to do. Right now a lot of people do the bare minimum at work. Imagine if those people had other hobbies or activities, like helping out people who need it, or reading, or writing, or acting, or dance. Whatever they want to do if they had the time.

In the United States though? It'll be slow going, with the mere concept of universal income being viewed as Communism.

Just make sure you give people some big incentives to not have more than 2 kids.

Still though - lots to be done. Lots of robots to create


What he said reminded me of this article I read today.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/your_lifestyle_has_already_been_d es igned/

The problem is that the economic system and consumer culture that has been built around it don't reflect our values.   It's the mindless pursuit of accumulating stuff, which is ultimately deeply unsatisfying to most people.



Stuff

Immediate gratification is what people desire to eliminate current deeply unsatisfying emotions. It turns into a vicious circle that has you constantly wasting money for a brief moment of gratification. Advertisements tell you that "you deserve it", "treat yourself", "buy it now", "get what you have always wanted", "for only $..."  etc etc..
 
2014-07-07 06:17:29 PM

nyseattitude: Immediate gratification is what people desire to eliminate current deeply unsatisfying emotions. It turns into a vicious circle that has you constantly wasting money for a brief moment of gratification. Advertisements tell you that "you deserve it", "treat yourself", "buy it now", "get what you have always wanted", "for only $..."  etc etc..


hmcurrentevents.com
And what did we sell it for?  Nifty stuff.  Elitism via consumer
             price tiers.  My sh*t is nicer than yours.  I win
 
2014-07-07 06:24:05 PM
Bunner

You are correct, everyone else gets parts of the $90,000

1 of hundreds of stories of the 10 year old put into the juvie system for loitering, ending up with a 25 year total sentence because of him fighting to defend himself against 14 and 15 year olds in there for more serious infractions.
Or the psychiatrist who was evaluating a physically abused 14 year old, by having her re-enact the abuse with him, and another male guard walking in and simply saying, "excuse me" and then walking out again, only reporting it because of a larger investigation some 6 months to a year later.
Then there was the judge who was in league with the privately run juvie detention center in Pennsylvania, which basically filled up the detention center with youth regardless of the infraction for between 5 and 10 year terms of detention  because prior to the collusion, the center was going to be closed for lack of usage.

The kids get 5 people to a 10x10 concrete slab concrete wall concrete ceiling and concrete "bunks", three meals and maybe a counselling session every so often. Really great rehabilitation for 90K a year.
 
2014-07-07 06:28:31 PM
B-b-but you can't subjugate and exploit a happy satisfied populace!
 
2014-07-07 06:30:36 PM

Acravius: Bunner

You are correct, everyone else gets parts of the $90,000

1 of hundreds of stories of the 10 year old put into the juvie system for loitering, ending up with a 25 year total sentence because of him fighting to defend himself against 14 and 15 year olds in there for more serious infractions.
Or the psychiatrist who was evaluating a physically abused 14 year old, by having her re-enact the abuse with him, and another male guard walking in and simply saying, "excuse me" and then walking out again, only reporting it because of a larger investigation some 6 months to a year later.
Then there was the judge who was in league with the privately run juvie detention center in Pennsylvania, which basically filled up the detention center with youth regardless of the infraction for between 5 and 10 year terms of detention  because prior to the collusion, the center was going to be closed for lack of usage.

The kids get 5 people to a 10x10 concrete slab concrete wall concrete ceiling and concrete "bunks", three meals and maybe a counselling session every so often. Really great rehabilitation for 90K a year.


And of course, this started as a movement to "save kids".  A push against the Dickensian miseries afforded at risk and criminally active children.

But, you see...   The problem is... And this is all "movements"...

"No movement can remain effective once it's been institutionalized because no institution can ever achieve the morality of the individuals who comprise it's advocate members.  Because under pressure, all institutions retreat into mechanisms that ensure their own survival."

The kids?  The prisoners?  They're chow for the maw, as Tom Wolfe said in Bonfire of the Vanities.  They're the lube that keeps the money moving up-chain.  They're furniture.
 
2014-07-07 06:30:53 PM
I'd settle for more snacks, really. I'm on the second floor. A pony would be problematic.

img.fark.net
 
2014-07-07 06:32:30 PM

farkin_Gary: B-b-but you can't subjugate and exploit a happy satisfied populace!


But you can blow a metric f*ckton of smoke up it's ass for 5 decades, telling it what "happy" is, and systematically dismantle anything saying otherwise.
 
2014-07-07 06:33:33 PM
"Whatever makes me rich should make you happy and you should be grateful." - Every Corporate Whorehouse Ever.
 
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