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(AutoBlog)   Audi finds slapping a badge on a VW Jetta and raising the price over $10,000 is a bad business plan. Just kidding. Audi can't keep its rebadged Jetta in stock   (autoblog.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Car of the Year, Toyota vehicles, craft beer, luxury cars, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety  
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4565 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Jul 2014 at 6:12 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-07 06:21:33 AM  
I think I'll just buy a jetta
 
2014-07-07 06:32:55 AM  
I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.
 
2014-07-07 06:56:18 AM  
So... they finally learned what Cadillac, Lincoln, Chrysler, Infinit, Lexus, and Acura have been doing for years?
 
2014-07-07 07:00:15 AM  

clkeagle: So... they finally learned what Cadillac, Lincoln, Chrysler, Infinit, Lexus, and Acura have been doing for years?


I believe Ford and GM have also done this.
 
2014-07-07 07:08:33 AM  

DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.


I recently dumped my S4 for a GTI. It's about half what I had originally paid for the Audi. Not a bad little ride but I bought used and it's an automatic (first auto in ~12 yrs, DSG just isn't the same). The inside certainly isn't appointed as nicely and the pull around the top isn't as hard but that little hot hatch is fun to drive and rush hour doesn't suck anymore. Not one person at my office gave me a hard time either and it's a fairly pro-German parking lot.

/VW makes nice cars too.
 
2014-07-07 07:09:23 AM  
There was a time when Americans wouldn't buy an expensive, small car. That appears to be over.
 
2014-07-07 07:32:37 AM  
Wonder when Harley is going to start rebadging Hondas? *ducks*
 
2014-07-07 07:50:41 AM  

DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.


I've got a 2012 Touareg TDI Sport and I love love love it!
 
2014-07-07 07:54:18 AM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.

I recently dumped my S4 for a GTI. It's about half what I had originally paid for the Audi. Not a bad little ride but I bought used and it's an automatic (first auto in ~12 yrs, DSG just isn't the same). The inside certainly isn't appointed as nicely and the pull around the top isn't as hard but that little hot hatch is fun to drive and rush hour doesn't suck anymore. Not one person at my office gave me a hard time either and it's a fairly pro-German parking lot.

/VW makes nice cars too.


I test drove an R32 before I bought my Touareg and loved the DSG in it.  The sales girl was holding on to both "oh shiat!" handles.  If I ever get to buy a summer car it will be an R32.
 
2014-07-07 08:10:32 AM  
My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.
 
2014-07-07 08:24:38 AM  

47 is the new 42: clkeagle: So... they finally learned what Cadillac, Lincoln, Chrysler, Infinit, Lexus, and Acura have been doing for years?

I believe Ford and GM have also done this.


He mentioned GM and Ford in his post (bolded to help you).
 
2014-07-07 08:58:03 AM  
I'm waiting for my Salfa Romeabb.
 
2014-07-07 09:30:40 AM  

HeadbangerSmurf: DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.

I've got a 2012 Touareg TDI Sport and I love love love it!


I feel bad for people who are only now experiencing the joy of TDI and missed out on the monster that was the Touareg V10 TDI.

...seriously wish I could have swapped that engine into my FJ. Floor it and the torque just pushes you back into the cargo area. Shame that there is no TDI option that is also AWD and includes a manual gearbox or thats what I'd be driving.
 
2014-07-07 09:33:30 AM  
Porterhouse, there's a brown Audi in my parking space. I want it removed immediately.
 
2014-07-07 09:43:00 AM  

H31N0US: My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.


Yup.

The electrical/electronic systems in VWs go to hell after a few years, and you'll NEVER get them working correctly again.

Some VW owners get lucky, and don't have those problems, but they're a minority. It's a well-known issue among VW fans. Some model years are better than others.

Like you said, they're great when they are working. But screw that.
 
2014-07-07 09:44:21 AM  

H31N0US: My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.


Yeah, though the Hondas we have had seem to be going down hill.  The 2004 Civic has been closer to a Chrysler in quality than to a stereotypical Honda.  But at least the parts are cheap.  I think my next buy will be Toyota.

For vans it is pretty hard to beat an Odyssey or Sienna.  I've made some interesting highway emergency avoidance maneuvers with a Sienna and it just kept going right down the road like nothing happened.

http://carsort.com/compare/Honda-Odyssey-vs-Volkswagen-Touareg

http://carsort.com/compare/Toyota-Sienna-Limited-vs-Volkswagen-Touar eg
 
2014-07-07 09:44:24 AM  

realmolo: H31N0US: My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.

Yup.

The electrical/electronic systems in VWs go to hell after a few years, and you'll NEVER get them working correctly again.

Some VW owners get lucky, and don't have those problems, but they're a minority. It's a well-known issue among VW fans. Some model years are better than others.

Like you said, they're great when they are working. But screw that.


In the last 12 months my parents owned the V10 TDI Touareg, it cost them close to $20k in repair bills. German cars are awesome, until they aren't...
 
2014-07-07 09:45:04 AM  

DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.


Surprisingly, Audi doesn't make a model off of the Touareg.  The Tiguan is the same as the Q5. The Touareg jumps to the Porsche Cayenne.  I think they should take the V6 model of the Cayenne and just call it an Audi. I test drove one, and it doesn't drive anything like a Porsche should.  The HP is 300 compared with the Touareg's 280.  Complete waste of money for that badge.  They are literally just trying to sell to soccer moms who want a Porsche and still an SUV.

All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.
 
2014-07-07 09:57:24 AM  

Psylence: it cost them close to $20k in repair bills


Could get a Civic Si for that kind of money.
 
2014-07-07 10:01:34 AM  
plcow:  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I for one, look forward to the new premium Kia and Tata marques.

Also, the S-Class and 7 series are not steaming piles of warmed over Rovers.
 
2014-07-07 10:08:48 AM  

Pick: Wonder when Harley is going to start rebadging Hondas? *ducks*


Done.

images.motorcycle-usa.com
 
2014-07-07 10:09:10 AM  

H31N0US: Psylence: it cost them close to $20k in repair bills

Could get a Civic Si for that kind of money.


I got a brand new CRZ for 19,5 last fall. I pointed out that I spent less on a new car than they did on repairs. I was more amused than they were.
 
2014-07-07 10:21:32 AM  

H31N0US: My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.


Having driven a few as test rentals, there are some interesting bells and whistles, but I've always found performance and handling to be slack.
 
2014-07-07 10:24:38 AM  
<i>Audi of America recently announced that the compact sedan shifted 2,452 vehicles in June </i>


Anyone who uses the word "shifted" to mean "sold" should be shot. It's bad enough when used for CD sales, where the author is trying to sound like a music industry insider by using the "lingo" but for other products it's even worse.

Unless one is referring to a manual transmission model and making a pun, in which case slow death by fire is also appropriate.
 
2014-07-07 10:24:50 AM  

Psylence: In the last 12 months my parents owned the V10 TDI Touareg, it cost them close to $20k in repair bills. German cars are awesome, until they aren't...


Or you could be like me, who got an E36 M3 from a "had to move, had to sell" servicemember for less than $8000 with 120k miles on the clock, and in the 2 years and 25,000 miles I've had in it, I've had to do all of $600 worth of "nonstandard" maintenance, replacing ignition coils and plug wires. Oh, and replace a worn out coolant hose. I consistently (couple times a month) get offers to purchase it for more than I paid for it, and my response is that you'd have to pay way more than it's worth, since I'm entirely too attachted to it.

Best car I've ever owned.

/Estoril 4dr manual
 
2014-07-07 10:25:21 AM  
Meh. Shot by the <i> tag, how embarrassing.
 
2014-07-07 10:27:18 AM  

plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.


I'm seeing the same thing.
 
2014-07-07 10:28:53 AM  
All you fancy-pants VW/Audi drivers...you probably still have sleeves on your shirts.

farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2014-07-07 10:29:15 AM  

grinding_journalist: Psylence: In the last 12 months my parents owned the V10 TDI Touareg, it cost them close to $20k in repair bills. German cars are awesome, until they aren't...

Or you could be like me, who got an E36 M3 from a "had to move, had to sell" servicemember for less than $8000 with 120k miles on the clock, and in the 2 years and 25,000 miles I've had in it, I've had to do all of $600 worth of "nonstandard" maintenance, replacing ignition coils and plug wires. Oh, and replace a worn out coolant hose. I consistently (couple times a month) get offers to purchase it for more than I paid for it, and my response is that you'd have to pay way more than it's worth, since I'm entirely too attachted to it.

Best car I've ever owned.

/Estoril 4dr manual


Congrats on dodging a bullet. Some of us aren't willing to take the chance, having been burned repeatedly in the past on VW and Audi repairs. And don't get me started on Porsche...

/owned 6 Audis, 2 VW's
//Never a BMW.
 
2014-07-07 10:30:20 AM  

plcow: DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.

Surprisingly, Audi doesn't make a model off of the Touareg.  The Tiguan is the same as the Q5. The Touareg jumps to the Porsche Cayenne.  I think they should take the V6 model of the Cayenne and just call it an Audi. I test drove one, and it doesn't drive anything like a Porsche should.  The HP is 300 compared with the Touareg's 280.  Complete waste of money for that badge.  They are literally just trying to sell to soccer moms who want a Porsche and still an SUV.

All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.


Really? I thought it went "Touraeg ~= Q7".
 
2014-07-07 10:30:33 AM  
volvo/subaru for life. fark the rest.
 
2014-07-07 10:31:53 AM  

sotua: plcow: DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.

Surprisingly, Audi doesn't make a model off of the Touareg.  The Tiguan is the same as the Q5. The Touareg jumps to the Porsche Cayenne.  I think they should take the V6 model of the Cayenne and just call it an Audi. I test drove one, and it doesn't drive anything like a Porsche should.  The HP is 300 compared with the Touareg's 280.  Complete waste of money for that badge.  They are literally just trying to sell to soccer moms who want a Porsche and still an SUV.

All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

Really? I thought it went "Touraeg ~= Q7".


Last I checked, it did.
 
2014-07-07 10:33:07 AM  

xtech: volvo/subaru for life. fark the rest.


Isn't Volvo moving its manufacturer to rural China in an effort to stay alive?
 
2014-07-07 10:35:09 AM  

plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.


I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.
 
2014-07-07 10:42:03 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: H31N0US: My experience with VW is that they're great when they are new. A few years on, not so much.

My experience with Honda is they are decent when they are new, and still decent in 15 years.

I'll stick with the Honda.

Yeah, though the Hondas we have had seem to be going down hill.  The 2004 Civic has been closer to a Chrysler in quality than to a stereotypical Honda.  But at least the parts are cheap.  I think my next buy will be Toyota.


My '04 Matrix just turned over 225K and is still going strong.  I will never buy American again (though it
pains me to type that).
 
2014-07-07 10:43:36 AM  

sotua: plcow: DubyaHater: I recently bought a Touareg instead of whatever the Audi version is (I wanted a diesel). I love it and didn't pay for the Audi name. Just buy a VW. No one cares you're driving an Audi.

Surprisingly, Audi doesn't make a model off of the Touareg.  The Tiguan is the same as the Q5. The Touareg jumps to the Porsche Cayenne.  I think they should take the V6 model of the Cayenne and just call it an Audi. I test drove one, and it doesn't drive anything like a Porsche should.  The HP is 300 compared with the Touareg's 280.  Complete waste of money for that badge.  They are literally just trying to sell to soccer moms who want a Porsche and still an SUV.

All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

Really? I thought it went "Touraeg ~= Q7".


I had thought the same thing when I was testdriving cars in this category, when I settled on the Touareg.  Actually, the Q7 is longer by about a foot, and a little wider.  It confused me too.

My thought, as far as branding goes, is that they should have put the Q7 chassis into a VW, since it has the extra row.  And then simply brand the Touereg as an Audi at the same costs (since it is pretty expensive for a VW).
 
2014-07-07 10:46:50 AM  

plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.


That will never be true; everyone knows that BMWs can only be afforded by guys of this caliber.

www.mbird.com
 
2014-07-07 10:47:30 AM  

thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.


The problem there is that one of the reasons people spend $90k+ on a car is to separate themselves from people that can't afford to. As an example of things going wrong, the VW Phaeton.
 
2014-07-07 10:51:01 AM  

thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.


You can wait a few years and buy that $90k car for a fraction of the price.

/E39 M5. Most perfect car ever built.  My buddy tried to convince me to get a brand new 3 Series.
 
2014-07-07 10:52:28 AM  

thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.


But eventually, the people who prioritize #2 on your list will quit buying BMW's high end cars.  Because "I drive a BMW" doesn't mean anything anymore.  An enthusiast will know the difference when you specify a model, but not the bimbo you are trying to impress or the "Jones's".  The prestige is gone.   A good example is a GTR. Most people don't even know what that is.  If you get one, you better be an enthusiast.  Because telling people you drive a Nissan GT-R doesn't mean much to a group of 20 somethings at a dance club, your wife's friends at the country club, or whomever.
 
2014-07-07 10:52:30 AM  

digistil: xtech: volvo/subaru for life. fark the rest.

Isn't Volvo moving its manufacturer to rural China in an effort to stay alive?


ok, let me rephrase. OLDER volvo/subaru for life. the new shiat, especially the s60, is utter garbage.

give me an 850 t5r, a 240 turbo brick anyday.

you get some weird ass stares when you're going sideways in a wagon!
 
2014-07-07 10:53:45 AM  

digistil: thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.

The problem there is that one of the reasons people spend $90k+ on a car is to separate themselves from people that can't afford to. As an example of things going wrong, the VW Phaeton.


I'm not sure what your point is -- that's exactly my point.
 
2014-07-07 10:54:37 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: 47 is the new 42: clkeagle: So... they finally learned what Cadillac, Lincoln, Chrysler, Infinit, Lexus, and Acura have been doing for years?

I believe Ford and GM have also done this.

He mentioned GM and Ford in his post (bolded to help you).


Damn it. I always forget Cadillac and Lincoln are GM and Ford makes respectively.
 
2014-07-07 10:57:00 AM  

plcow: thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.

But eventually, the people who prioritize #2 on your list will quit buying BMW's high end cars.  Because "I drive a BMW" doesn't mean anything anymore.  An enthusiast will know the difference when you specify a model, but not the bimbo you are trying to impress or the "Jones's".  The prestige is gone.   A good example is a GTR. Most people don't even know what that is.  If you get one, you better be an enthusiast.  Because telling people you drive a Nissan GT-R doesn't mean much to a group of 20 somethings at a dance club, your wife's friends at the country club, or whomever.


That's more of a marketing issue. You just need to make sure that BMW models being pushed in advertising are always the high-end ones, which is already pretty much the case. I feel like I see more marketing for the i8 than any other single car on the line.
 
2014-07-07 10:58:04 AM  

Ivandrago: thornhill: plcow: All these high end car companies constantly cheapening their brands to make them affordable is interesting.  BMW, being the obvious first example.  In another 20 years, none of these brands will have anything even close to resembling the prestige that they had years ago, unless they reverse course.

I don't think so.

For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

As long as BMW keeps cranking out cool looking $90k+ cars, people will continue to buy their entry level vehicles so they can feel like they're getting to own a piece of luxury.

You can wait a few years and buy that $90k car for a fraction of the price.

/E39 M5. Most perfect car ever built.  My buddy tried to convince me to get a brand new 3 Series.


Most car buyers aren't that rational. Just look at the insane APRs people agree to on the loans because they want a new car right now.
 
2014-07-07 11:03:01 AM  
As someone who, by external circumstances, is forced to lease a Nissan and/or a Ford... Aaaaah!

Seriously guys, those are the options. Looking at ford Escape, Edge, and Nissan rogue as family SUV. Snow is expected so AWD is a plus.
 
2014-07-07 11:03:54 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: I will never buy American again (though it pains me to type that).


I owned American cars most of my life (8 cars in a row).  Then I bought a Nissan because I could get some of the gizmos I wanted that were either not available, or cost prohibitive on the American (semi)equivalent.  The Japanese cars are so much more advanced tha the American cars that I cannot see myself effectively travelling back in time to buy American.

I drove some european offerings, but VW seemed like it wasn't finished, and the others were much more expensive for what you get.
 
2014-07-07 11:04:42 AM  
thornhill:
For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.


Comfort/features are above performance for most drivers, I suspect.

I'll even admit I drive a "rebadged car" -- an Acura TSX which is basically a European Accord with some improvements. It's the most comfortable car I've ever driven as far as my "fit" goes (every thing feels exactly right, in exactly the right places), and it's got good enough performance without being gas guzzler either (just 200HP, 4 cyl). Whenever I'm on travel and have a rental the seat is never right, the wheel feels too loose, or the AC doesn't work well enough.

Then again, I bought it used for < $20k with just 40,000 miles on it.
 
2014-07-07 11:06:30 AM  

dukeblue219: thornhill:
For most people, rich and poor, they settle on a car based on these criteria in this order:

1. What they can afford to spend on a car.
2. The image they want to project.
3. Performance
4. Fuel economy.

Comfort/features are above performance for most drivers, I suspect.

I'll even admit I drive a "rebadged car" -- an Acura TSX which is basically a European Accord with some improvements. It's the most comfortable car I've ever driven as far as my "fit" goes (every thing feels exactly right, in exactly the right places), and it's got good enough performance without being gas guzzler either (just 200HP, 4 cyl). Whenever I'm on travel and have a rental the seat is never right, the wheel feels too loose, or the AC doesn't work well enough.

Then again, I bought it used for < $20k with just 40,000 miles on it.


Good point. The bells and whistles on the dash are probably #3 on my list.
 
2014-07-07 11:06:34 AM  

thornhill: Just look at the insane APRs people agree to on the loans because they want a new car right now.


0% is quite attractive if you think about it.

I am paying a confiscatory 1.5% myself.
 
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