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(BBC-US)   Russian special forces evacuate from the city of Sloviansk. Looks like the big bad bear may not be as fierce as once thought   (bbc.com) divider line 8
    More: Followup, Slovyansk, Ukraine, Ukraine crisis  
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5459 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jul 2014 at 6:21 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-05 06:32:55 PM  
3 votes:
But McCain told me Fartbongo's feckless foreign policy would hand all of Europe over to that sexy, sexy man Vladimir "Stud-muffin" Putin
2014-07-06 01:04:51 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there. And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military. So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers. They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).


Eh.  Putin and his military can be pretty ballsy, though.  Look at Crimera (and to some extent, same thing in eastern Uktraine).  You had "rebels" driving Russian military vehicles that had their decals taken off but they didn't think/bother to remove the license plates.  You had "rebels" openly admitting to reporters that they were Russian soldiers.

krackpipe: Mystery solved. Why would they do that?


They're jerks trying to make me look bad.  Jokes on them, though; I can do that well enough without their help!  Suckers.
2014-07-06 12:55:29 AM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: dittybopper: Yeah. The actual Russian SF guys were the ones who did the infiltration and initial assaults, and they then quietly handed over the buildings to the expendables, the ones who could be abandoned without any real repercussions for Putin should he decide to pull out.

Still, most of those expendables were still Russian citizens, with some regular army or ex-army.


Mostly ex-Army, I should think.

Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there.  And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military.  So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers.  They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).

If they were active duty Army, that would be an embarrassment, and Putin doesn't like to be embarrassed.

So he sends in the Spetznaz in the initial wave, followed by the ex-military guys and perhaps a smattering of actual Ukrainians who want to be part of Russia again.  The expendables then replace them, and the initial waves gets out of Додж while the getting is good.

Now at that point, if Putin decides to really press the matter, he's got troops on the border for a full-scale invasion.  But if he decides at some point that it's no longer desirable, he can just abandon the whole thing, and he won't be losing anything.

Also, I'm wondering if this wasn't just a set-up to solidify his position in Crimea.  Ukrainian government is too busy dealing with Eastern Ukraine to even bother with Crimea, and once Putin backs off, Ukrainians can "hold their heads high" at keeping the big bad Russian bear at bay in the East.  Ukraine decides to quit while it's ahead, and Russia keeps Crimea.

It's kind of like asking $1000 for your junk car, then reducing the price in half (which is what it was worth in the first place).
2014-07-05 09:52:05 PM  
1 votes:
ProTip: Raising a paper army full of conscripts and rusting equipment and slathering over it with FPS Russia-esque videos and marketing bravado is 85% as effective as raising a *real* army at a fraction of the cost.

Right up until they need to actually fight, in which case, Ukrainian rag-tags can take them down.
2014-07-05 09:00:39 PM  
1 votes:

iheartscotch: Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.

Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes


Back in the 70s a Soviet soldier tried to get me to take various parts of his uniform in exchange for either a Bic lighter or a Playboy. Alas, I had neither on me and would have been too worried about my own security clearance to do that.
2014-07-05 08:47:24 PM  
1 votes:
Could this be a sign that Putin is backing off?

1. Repealed law that allowed military intervention in Ukraine.
2. Offers to allow observers from Kiev and OSCE at border crossings.
3. Rebels retreat from Kramatorsk -- which was not under Ukrainian military pressure.

/already has Crimea
2014-07-05 06:33:20 PM  
1 votes:
Another site calls them "Pro Russian rebels" or something like that.  I though it was pretty much understood that it was actually Russian military guys pretending to be rebels.  Sort of an invasion without overtly invading.  Or an attempt to cause chaos, so Russia can say "look at all this chaos (we caused).  In the interests of peace we must invade now.  To keep everyone safe of course."
2014-07-05 06:25:13 PM  
1 votes:

real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,


I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.
 
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