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(BBC-US)   Russian special forces evacuate from the city of Sloviansk. Looks like the big bad bear may not be as fierce as once thought   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Slovyansk, Ukraine, Ukraine crisis  
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5570 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jul 2014 at 6:21 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-05 05:37:09 PM  
"Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,
 
2014-07-05 06:23:39 PM  
So, Ukraine not weak?
 
2014-07-05 06:24:00 PM  
Bad news for Ukraine
 
2014-07-05 06:25:13 PM  

real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,


I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.
 
2014-07-05 06:27:30 PM  
Russian "Special" Forces ride to war in the short tanks.
 
2014-07-05 06:31:13 PM  
The United States. Overreacting to everything since 1945.
 
2014-07-05 06:32:55 PM  
But McCain told me Fartbongo's feckless foreign policy would hand all of Europe over to that sexy, sexy man Vladimir "Stud-muffin" Putin
 
2014-07-05 06:33:20 PM  
Another site calls them "Pro Russian rebels" or something like that.  I though it was pretty much understood that it was actually Russian military guys pretending to be rebels.  Sort of an invasion without overtly invading.  Or an attempt to cause chaos, so Russia can say "look at all this chaos (we caused).  In the interests of peace we must invade now.  To keep everyone safe of course."
 
2014-07-05 06:33:37 PM  
The bear is merely wounded - and pissed off

s3.postimg.org

And a pissed off bear is a dangerous bear,
 
2014-07-05 06:40:20 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.


Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes
 
2014-07-05 06:40:52 PM  

rbuzby: I though it was pretty much understood that it was actually Russian military guys pretending to be rebels. Sort of an invasion without overtly invading.


Lambs to the slaughter, if that is actually the case.  Who would volunteer to invade a country with no air support or cavalry? The Ukrainians are slaughtering these guys en masse. Unless the Russian government promised those would come along to support the expeditionary forces if Ukraine fought back, but then went back on their word...
 
2014-07-05 06:41:19 PM  
Mr Strelkov, whose real name is Igor Girkin, had pleaded for Russian intervention on Friday saying his men had lost the will to fight.

Sounds like Mr Girkin is in quite the pickle.
 
2014-07-05 06:46:34 PM  

fusillade762: Mr Strelkov, whose real name is Igor Girkin, had pleaded for Russian intervention on Friday saying his men had lost the will to fight.

Sounds like Mr Girkin is in quite the pickle.


And Mr. Potatoehead was peeled in the parlor.
 
2014-07-05 06:47:55 PM  

Shaggy_C: rbuzby: I though it was pretty much understood that it was actually Russian military guys pretending to be rebels. Sort of an invasion without overtly invading.

Lambs to the slaughter, if that is actually the case.  Who would volunteer to invade a country with no air support or cavalry? The Ukrainians are slaughtering these guys en masse. Unless the Russian government promised those would come along to support the expeditionary forces if Ukraine fought back, but then went back on their word...


Or maybe the guys from Russia are just handing out a bunch of cash to stir up trouble.  If there is enough trouble, Putin will have to sent the real troops to the rescue.

Farking dutch floppers just beat Costa Rica.  Crappo.
 
2014-07-05 06:48:49 PM  
Those were Russian special-ed soldiers and the outright invasion force camouflaged as local rebels. They are no longer fighting just police and the real locals who didn't want near soviet Russia back oppressing them. They just engaged the real Ukraine military and ran like typical weak Russian cowards. It's not all shots of vodka and raping local women anymore.

It may take a little time, but the whole stealing of Crimea will become another joke of dumb Russian aggression like their attempt in Afghanistan. Russia will lose and all of Ukraine will be reunited.

Suck it, Russia.
 
2014-07-05 06:53:34 PM  
iheartscotch:Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes


Wow. It sounds like they should have never got rid of the NKVD.
 
2014-07-05 06:53:36 PM  

iheartscotch: Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.

Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.


Russia drafts kids for one year and that poorly trained, poorly paid and often abused rabble is the bulk of their forces.
They do have some well trained forces of course but the overall professionalism of their armed forces is very low.
 
2014-07-05 06:57:25 PM  
Russian Special Forces are spot-on. Their regular Army, not so much. Read up on the conscript issues: it's bad. They inherited the worst of the Soviet system and the only reason they're not total crap is because Pooty-Poot is dumping lots of money into the military right now.

That's the joke with the pro-Russian idiots: once Putin rules over you, your ass gets conscripted (or your son's ass). The guys in the article are not Russian Special Forces. They're morons provided with Russian hardware to mess with the Ukrainians. They failed, because Ukraine gives no shiats and Putin realizes he that he gambled wrong.
 
2014-07-05 06:58:28 PM  

iheartscotch: Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.

Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes


The quality of the Russian troops falls off very steeply as you get down to the infantry draftees. Imagine a force made up largely of high school juniors and seniors (and not the particularly athletic ones), many of them with poor health and worse fitness, many away from home from the first time, thrown into an institution with a chronic bullying culture, poor equipment and training for the conscripts, and often shortages of food and water, especially when deployed. In the first battle of Grozny, many refused to fight; many were simply too scared.
 
2014-07-05 07:00:24 PM  

Abaddon The Despoiler: Those were Russian special-ed soldiers and the outright invasion force camouflaged as local rebels. They are no longer fighting just police and the real locals who didn't want near soviet Russia back oppressing them. They just engaged the real Ukraine military and ran like typical weak Russian cowards. It's not all shots of vodka and raping local women anymore.

It may take a little time, but the whole stealing of Crimea will become another joke of dumb Russian aggression like their attempt in Afghanistan. Russia will lose and all of Ukraine will be reunited.

Suck it, Russia.


The only way Ukraine is ever getting Sevastopol back is if Russia decides to sell it to raise some quick cash. (And then Beijing or the Saudis will probably swoop in to buy it first, after they laugh off Trump's bid of a million trillion dollars.)
 
2014-07-05 07:03:10 PM  
And remember, it's just a massive coincidence that all the "rebel" leaders are Russian citizens who don't even live in Ukraine and that almost every dead "rebel" has his body shipped back to Moscow.
 
2014-07-05 07:06:15 PM  

PirateFreedom: Russia drafts kids for one year and that poorly trained, poorly paid and often abused rabble is the bulk of their forces.
They do have some well trained forces of course but the overall professionalism of their armed forces is very low.


See also their inability to maintain their navy post-Soviet Union. With the Soviet era ships aging out, some observers have even described the RFN as "essentially non-operational". Putin is pouring money in now, but it will take years to reverse the decline, not to mention the lack of operational capability. And, of course, the level of spending committed to by Putin is probably unsustainable.
 
2014-07-05 07:15:45 PM  

foxyshadis: The only way Ukraine is ever getting Sevastopol back is if Russia decides to sell it to raise some quick cash. (And then Beijing or the Saudis will probably swoop in to buy it first, after they laugh off Trump's bid of a million trillion dollars.)


That, or if they could get Turkey to play hardball, which might not be that hard if the Russians treat the Tartars like shiat again.  Turkey can make Sevastopol pointless for Russia pretty easily.
 
2014-07-05 07:22:25 PM  
According to some sources 70% of rebels are foreigners. I really doubt Kremlin sends professionals or young recruits to die in Ukraine. Mostly it's ultra-patriotic Russian (and Serbian) para-paramilitaries like Cossacks, etc, mercenaries and Kadyrovtsy

There;s theory that Putin uses this conflict to get rid of hot-heads before they decide that Putin is not patriotic enough.
 
2014-07-05 07:25:14 PM  

LewDux: According to some sources 70% of rebels are foreigners. I really doubt Kremlin sends professionals or young recruits to die in Ukraine. Mostly it's ultra-patriotic Russian (and Serbian) para-paramilitaries like Cossacks, etc, mercenaries and Kadyrovtsy

There;s theory that Putin uses this conflict to get rid of hot-heads before they decide that Putin is not patriotic enough.


Likely a mix of both.  The standard during the uprising was for Russian special forces to storm the buildings and then let the "volunteer militias" hold them.  Recruitment for the rebels was going on pretty openly in Moscow for a time.
 
2014-07-05 07:33:17 PM  
The big bad bear was never as fierce as the media hyped it to be. I'm guessing that Putin will even end up returning Crimea to the Ukraine, but only after extracting a promise from them to never try to restrict Russia's use of their ports there in any way, or else this whole fracas will start again.

/which will probably end up as valid as the promise the feds made to the Bundy Ranch
 
2014-07-05 07:51:22 PM  

Tatterdemalian: /which will probably end up as valid as the promise the feds made to the Bundy Ranch


thepatriotperspective.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-07-05 08:15:43 PM  
They arent special forces. They are being supplied by Russia though... how else could they get a launcher to take down a jet.
 
2014-07-05 08:21:25 PM  

czetie: iheartscotch: Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.

Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes

The quality of the Russian troops falls off very steeply as you get down to the infantry draftees. Imagine a force made up largely of high school juniors and seniors (and not the particularly athletic ones), many of them with poor health and worse fitness, many away from home from the first time, thrown into an institution with a chronic bullying culture, poor equipment and training for the conscripts, and often shortages of food and water, especially when deployed. In the first battle of Grozny, many refused to fight; many were simply too scared.


The Russians in WWZ dealt with this through an old-fashioned decimation.

The days of successful warfare using hordes of conscripts are probably over.
 
2014-07-05 08:36:02 PM  
Russian special forces (Spetsnaz) are very active in eastern Ukraine. They are the ones training the other Russian terrorists how to use all the advanced weaponry coming from Uncle Vulvo. Hell, Igor "Strelkov" Girkin is in the Spetsnaz GRU.

Today has been a great farking day for the Ukrainian ATO.
 
2014-07-05 08:45:48 PM  
Russians have already gotten Crimea and the guarantee from Poroshenko not to join NATO. Added to the fact that most of Eastern Ukraine doesn't want to secede and the game is near over now. Makes sense dial back.
 
2014-07-05 08:47:24 PM  
Could this be a sign that Putin is backing off?

1. Repealed law that allowed military intervention in Ukraine.
2. Offers to allow observers from Kiev and OSCE at border crossings.
3. Rebels retreat from Kramatorsk -- which was not under Ukrainian military pressure.

/already has Crimea
 
2014-07-05 08:50:43 PM  
I have a real hard time telling Ukrainians from Russians whhen they're trying to score codine to turn into meth ahead of me in line at Walgreen's at me midnight.
 
2014-07-05 08:56:04 PM  

El Dudereno: The Russians in WWZ dealt with this through an old-fashioned decimation.

The days of successful warfare using hordes of conscripts are probably over.


cdn3.whatculture.com
 
2014-07-05 09:00:39 PM  

iheartscotch: Satanic_Hamster: real_headhoncho: "Russian Special Forces"?  If they were Russian Special Forces, they would be the ones kicking ass.  These were assholes drunk with power and vodka that finally sobered up and realized how deep in shiat they really were,

I don't think Russian soldiers are the GI Joe Supermen you might think they are.

Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes


Back in the 70s a Soviet soldier tried to get me to take various parts of his uniform in exchange for either a Bic lighter or a Playboy. Alas, I had neither on me and would have been too worried about my own security clearance to do that.
 
2014-07-05 09:48:59 PM  

I'm just asking questions: iheartscotch:Russia's problem has always been it's front line guys. I've heard stories, from the 80's, of Russian troops trading samples of their tank reactive armor for cigarettes.

Or, their planes icing over because their de-icer was alcohol based and somebody, we're looking at you Ivan, drank it all.

/ who knows if those stories are correct or the recollections of old soldiers who are ecstatic to have somebody to talk to

// I volunteer at the VA sometimes

Wow. It sounds like they should have never got rid of the NKVD.


Old school!
 
2014-07-05 09:52:05 PM  
ProTip: Raising a paper army full of conscripts and rusting equipment and slathering over it with FPS Russia-esque videos and marketing bravado is 85% as effective as raising a *real* army at a fraction of the cost.

Right up until they need to actually fight, in which case, Ukrainian rag-tags can take them down.
 
2014-07-05 09:55:36 PM  

NathanAllen: I have a real hard time telling Ukrainians from Russians whhen they're trying to score codine to turn into meth ahead of me in line at Walgreen's at me midnight.


There is so much wrong with this sentence I don't even know where to start...
 
2014-07-05 10:09:35 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: LewDux: According to some sources 70% of rebels are foreigners. I really doubt Kremlin sends professionals or young recruits to die in Ukraine. Mostly it's ultra-patriotic Russian (and Serbian) para-paramilitaries like Cossacks, etc, mercenaries and Kadyrovtsy

There;s theory that Putin uses this conflict to get rid of hot-heads before they decide that Putin is not patriotic enough.

Likely a mix of both.  The standard during the uprising was for Russian special forces to storm the buildings and then let the "volunteer militias" hold them.  Recruitment for the rebels was going on pretty openly in Moscow for a time.


Yeah.  The actual Russian SF guys were the ones who did the infiltration and initial assaults, and they then quietly handed over the buildings to the expendables, the ones who could be abandoned without any real repercussions for Putin should he decide to pull out.
 
2014-07-05 10:58:52 PM  

dittybopper: Yeah. The actual Russian SF guys were the ones who did the infiltration and initial assaults, and they then quietly handed over the buildings to the expendables, the ones who could be abandoned without any real repercussions for Putin should he decide to pull out.


Still, most of those expendables were still Russian citizens, with some regular army or ex-army.

So where IS our main Putin cock sucker?  Check hasn't cleared for shrilling this week?
 
2014-07-05 11:44:06 PM  
Fark, I am disappoint!

static.fjcdn.com

/ This post is in no way an endorsement of Russian policies.
 
2014-07-06 12:35:19 AM  
I'm not sure I agree 100 percent with your analysis, subby.
 
2014-07-06 12:40:15 AM  

krackpipe: I'm not sure I agree 100 percent with your analysis, subby.


In my defense, someone added the second half of the title after I submitted it.  I suspect modhacks were involved.

/subby
 
2014-07-06 12:55:29 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: dittybopper: Yeah. The actual Russian SF guys were the ones who did the infiltration and initial assaults, and they then quietly handed over the buildings to the expendables, the ones who could be abandoned without any real repercussions for Putin should he decide to pull out.

Still, most of those expendables were still Russian citizens, with some regular army or ex-army.


Mostly ex-Army, I should think.

Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there.  And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military.  So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers.  They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).

If they were active duty Army, that would be an embarrassment, and Putin doesn't like to be embarrassed.

So he sends in the Spetznaz in the initial wave, followed by the ex-military guys and perhaps a smattering of actual Ukrainians who want to be part of Russia again.  The expendables then replace them, and the initial waves gets out of Додж while the getting is good.

Now at that point, if Putin decides to really press the matter, he's got troops on the border for a full-scale invasion.  But if he decides at some point that it's no longer desirable, he can just abandon the whole thing, and he won't be losing anything.

Also, I'm wondering if this wasn't just a set-up to solidify his position in Crimea.  Ukrainian government is too busy dealing with Eastern Ukraine to even bother with Crimea, and once Putin backs off, Ukrainians can "hold their heads high" at keeping the big bad Russian bear at bay in the East.  Ukraine decides to quit while it's ahead, and Russia keeps Crimea.

It's kind of like asking $1000 for your junk car, then reducing the price in half (which is what it was worth in the first place).
 
2014-07-06 12:59:14 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: krackpipe: I'm not sure I agree 100 percent with your analysis, subby.

In my defense, someone added the second half of the title after I submitted it.  I suspect modhacks were involved.

/subby


Mystery solved. Why would they do that?
 
2014-07-06 01:04:51 AM  

dittybopper: Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there. And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military. So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers. They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).


Eh.  Putin and his military can be pretty ballsy, though.  Look at Crimera (and to some extent, same thing in eastern Uktraine).  You had "rebels" driving Russian military vehicles that had their decals taken off but they didn't think/bother to remove the license plates.  You had "rebels" openly admitting to reporters that they were Russian soldiers.

krackpipe: Mystery solved. Why would they do that?


They're jerks trying to make me look bad.  Jokes on them, though; I can do that well enough without their help!  Suckers.
 
2014-07-06 01:14:48 AM  

trotsky: Russian Special Forces are spot-on.


Unless they're called upon to rescue you from chechnian high-jackers holed up in a Moscow theater
 
2014-07-06 01:19:16 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: dittybopper: Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there. And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military. So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers. They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).

Eh.  Putin and his military can be pretty ballsy, though.  Look at Crimera (and to some extent, same thing in eastern Uktraine).  You had "rebels" driving Russian military vehicles that had their decals taken off but they didn't think/bother to remove the license plates.  You had "rebels" openly admitting to reporters that they were Russian soldiers.

krackpipe: Mystery solved. Why would they do that?

They're jerks trying to make me look bad.  Jokes on them, though; I can do that well enough without their help!  Suckers.


They have already identified active duty Russian soldiers are amongst the dead. Most of the dead never make it back to Russia. They're either buried in mass graves or thrown in lakes. This done by the terrorists themselves so as to conceal the number of KIA. Those dead bodies that do make it back across the border via stolen refrigerator trucks are taken to a military hospital/morgue which is guarded with extreme secrecy. Their families are not contacted and nobody is allowed to see the bodies.
 
2014-07-06 01:27:10 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: dittybopper: Putin wouldn't be able to explain regular Army troops in Eastern Ukraine without admitting that he sent them there. And if things went badly, some would be captured or killed and identified as active duty Russian military. So I'm thinking they're paid ex-soldiers. They're not active duty, but they have the training still relatively fresh in their minds, and their getting their rubles (and probably they are doing it for the Rodina).

Eh.  Putin and his military can be pretty ballsy, though.  Look at Crimera (and to some extent, same thing in eastern Uktraine).  You had "rebels" driving Russian military vehicles that had their decals taken off but they didn't think/bother to remove the license plates.  You had "rebels" openly admitting to reporters that they were Russian soldiers.

krackpipe: Mystery solved. Why would they do that?

They're jerks trying to make me look bad.  Jokes on them, though; I can do that well enough without their help!  Suckers.


Hah! Story of my life too. Hang in there.
 
2014-07-06 03:16:49 AM  

Breygon: trotsky: Russian Special Forces are spot-on.

Unless they're called upon to rescue you from chechnian high-jackers holed up in a Moscow theater


Yeah, I think of that event every time I see someone use knockout gas to resolve a hostage scenario in movies or TV.
 
2014-07-06 03:30:33 AM  
Russia's predicament is that the amount of material & troops they would have to send in to achieve victory exceeds any semblance of "plausible deniability," while the Ukraine has no such political restrictions and can therefore send everything they've got with impunity.

If Russia where to stop caring about political face they could very easily send in enough stuff to crush the Ukraine in under a month; tanks, planes, legions of soldiers, etc.  However, as stated above, since they're trying to keep their involvement on the down-low, they are extremely limited by what they can send to the separatists (read: "military advisers" and man-portable weapons).

So the real question is how Russia is going to react: Will they continue to try to stop Ukrainian tanks & planes with a handful of "special forces" armed with infantry gear (good infantry gear, yes, but still just infantry gear) or will they drop the facade and send in the real Russian military to curb stomp the Ukraine once and for all?  You know, like they did in Georgia a few years back.
 
2014-07-06 08:04:56 AM  

NathanAllen: I have a real hard time telling Ukrainians from Russians whhen they're trying to score codine to turn into meth ahead of me in line at Walgreen's at me midnight.


Either you're pissed that by the time you get to the front of the line all the codeine is gone; or you need to work on your grammar.
 
2014-07-06 08:53:37 AM  

Breygon: trotsky: Russian Special Forces are spot-on.

Unless they're called upon to rescue you from chechnian high-jackers holed up in a Moscow theater


Sure, you're dead, but, your ass has been rescued.  All this farking nit-picking, about who's alive and who's dead.  Give 'em a break, already.
 
2014-07-06 08:57:43 AM  

Breygon: trotsky: Russian Special Forces are spot-on.

Unless they're called upon to rescue you from chechnian high-jackers holed up in a Moscow theater


Rumour has it that SF were given orders to shoot anyone dressed in black, just in case
 
2014-07-06 09:18:15 AM  
Plans
www.eode.org

Reality
 pbs.twimg.com


"The breakthrough took the enemy completely by surprise" Strelkov

http://progressivepress.com/blog-entry/dirty-war-ukraine
 
2014-07-06 10:28:05 AM  

NephilimNexus: So the real question is how Russia is going to react: Will they continue to try to stop Ukrainian tanks & planes with a handful of "special forces" armed with infantry gear (good infantry gear, yes, but still just infantry gear) or will they drop the facade and send in the real Russian military to curb stomp the Ukraine once and for all? You know, like they did in Georgia a few years back.


The Georgians were dumb enough to attack Russian forces that were still on the Russian side of the boarder, in addition to the Russian forces that had crosses into the breakaway regions.
 
2014-07-06 10:35:57 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: NephilimNexus: So the real question is how Russia is going to react: Will they continue to try to stop Ukrainian tanks & planes with a handful of "special forces" armed with infantry gear (good infantry gear, yes, but still just infantry gear) or will they drop the facade and send in the real Russian military to curb stomp the Ukraine once and for all? You know, like they did in Georgia a few years back.

The Georgians were dumb enough to attack Russian forces that were still on the Russian side of the boarder, in addition to the Russian forces that had crosses into the breakaway regions.


And I still can't get over how incompetent the Russian military was shown to be during the Georgian conflict.  They failed to get air superiority or destroy the Georgian air force, they lost a general to small arms fire, they lost seven confirmed air craft (with 5 possible others), including a god damn Tu-22 Backfire with their top test pilot / flight trainer on it.

That's like us losing a B-1 against Grenada.
 
2014-07-06 11:07:25 AM  
How you read this situation depends on how you read Putin, because the Ukraine region in question is an economic black hole. Imagine a region where all the cities are Detroit and everything in between is west Texas. The Russian economy is in bad enough shape already, without subsidizing and supporting that mess.

So if you think Putin is really smart, making trouble in Luhansk and Donetsk is a feint so that withdrawing while keeping Crimea seems like a "reasonable compromise". This was his plan all along.

But if you think he is actually the Stalinist would-be dictator/president for life who has ruthlessly exploited the oligarchs and is now exploiting the Orthodox Church and the nationalists to entrench his own power that he appears to be, then this was a huge mistake of an overreach. He underestimated the foreign reaction, especially the impact of sanctions, and is slowly realizing that not only can't he win in Ukraine, he can't afford Ukraine and the new navy he so desperately wants.
 
2014-07-06 11:39:35 AM  

czetie: So if you think Putin is really smart, making trouble in Luhansk and Donetsk is a feint so that withdrawing while keeping Crimea seems like a "reasonable compromise". This was his plan all along.


Crimea is a bit of an economic black hole as well.
 
2014-07-06 12:32:01 PM  

LewDux: Plans
[www.eode.org image 595x408]

Reality
 [pbs.twimg.com image 568x706]


"The breakthrough took the enemy completely by surprise" Strelkov

http://progressivepress.com/blog-entry/dirty-war-ukraine


If that second map is accurately reflecting things on the ground, I wouldn't be surprised if any Russians (current military or not) are beating feet to the border before they get encircled.
 
2014-07-06 01:06:26 PM  

FloridaWombat: LewDux: Plans
[www.eode.org image 595x408]

Reality
 [pbs.twimg.com image 568x706]


"The breakthrough took the enemy completely by surprise" Strelkov

http://progressivepress.com/blog-entry/dirty-war-ukraine

If that second map is accurately reflecting things on the ground, I wouldn't be surprised if any Russians (current military or not) are beating feet to the border before they get encircled.


Source
 
2014-07-06 01:41:27 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: czetie: So if you think Putin is really smart, making trouble in Luhansk and Donetsk is a feint so that withdrawing while keeping Crimea seems like a "reasonable compromise". This was his plan all along.

Crimea is a bit of an economic black hole as well.


It certainly is, just not on the scale of east Ukraine, and with fewer strategic compensations.
 
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