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(Some Guy)   The A's trade a bunch of players for Jason Hammel and Jeff Sama...Sama... Samanotgonnapitchhereanymore   (athleticsnation.com) divider line 41
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528 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Jul 2014 at 2:52 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-05 01:54:46 PM  
Great headline, would vote for again.
 
2014-07-05 03:09:29 PM  
I wonder if the player to be named later will be Michael Bolton???
 
2014-07-05 03:11:13 PM  
I'm looking forward to seeing the A's in the playoffs, they seem so regular seasonish good, but I still don't know if they have enough good players to contend.
 
2014-07-05 03:18:12 PM  
Excellent. I have Samardzija (and Hammel, funnily enough) on my fantasy team and it will be nice for him to be on a team that'll actually get him wins. Samardzija has a 2.83 ERA on the season but only 2 wins to go with it.
 
2014-07-05 03:21:26 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: I'm looking forward to seeing the A's in the playoffs, they seem so regular seasonish good, but I still don't know if they have enough good players to contend.


They don't have a ton of superstars beyond Donaldson, but they're ridiculously deep. All quality players 1 to 25. Now that they have Samardzija, their rotation matches up well with anyone except maybe the Dodgers. They have the most runs scored and fourth fewest allowed in baseball. I'd say they're the best team in baseball, and it isn't real close.
 
2014-07-05 03:35:13 PM  

jpo2269: I wonder if the player to be named later will be Michael Bolton???


It would be justice for the Cubs if the PTBNL ends up as talented as Josh Donaldson, who was the PTBNL in the Cubs' Rich Harden deal back in '08.

/that Harden deal looks to be worse than the much maligned Brock for Broglio deal
//or maybe the dingleberry on top of the entire shiat sundae of the Jim Hendry tenure as GM of the Cubs
 
2014-07-05 03:36:13 PM  
Now Samardzija has a chance to feel what it's like to win in California.
 
2014-07-05 03:42:21 PM  
The Cubs now have a player named Addison.

The marketing of that out here is going to be so Damn annoying
 
2014-07-05 03:49:14 PM  

EvilMonkeyBoy: The Cubs now have a player named Addison.

The marketing of that out here is going to be so Damn annoying


Maybe so, but he's why they made the trade (along with dumping free agents-to-be). Top prospect; if he pans out they can trade Castro for some pitching. Full circle.

But then I'm a Reds fan, so right now I'm just amused by it all.
 
2014-07-05 04:03:25 PM  
as a Met fan...  Zach Wheeler for Castro one for one... do it Sandy do it!
 
2014-07-05 04:17:26 PM  
How long before we see Russell in the obligatory "Clark and Addison" photo op with the mascot?
 
2014-07-05 04:20:11 PM  

CognaciousThunk: EvilMonkeyBoy: The Cubs now have a player named Addison.

The marketing of that out here is going to be so Damn annoying

Maybe so, but he's why they made the trade (along with dumping free agents-to-be). Top prospect; if he pans out they can trade Castro for some pitching. Full circle.

But then I'm a Reds fan, so right now I'm just amused by it all.


The amount of stupid being spewed in the Cubs facebook page comments for the announcement is beyond ridiculous. People keep hanging on to the delusion that Samardzija is an ace that could be built around when he's at best a #3 pitcher nearing 30 with a contract soon to expire. I think he has another year left, but it might be an option year.

The Cubs made out like bandits with two top prospect and a young, high upside pitcher, and the A's got exactly what they needed in rotation depth, since Shark and Hammel can immediately be plugged in the A's 3 and 4 slots.
 
2014-07-05 04:27:11 PM  
great trade for the cubs
 
2014-07-05 04:27:13 PM  
I love that the A's are all-in for this season. The window is two years, though I wouldn't be surprised to see the A's trade Samardzija in the offseason for prospects with Griffin and Parker coming back next season after Tommy John surgery. Hammel may or may not be a rental. I suppose I'll be disappointed not to see Russell wearing an A's uniform in the bigs, but I'll trade that for one World Series (or two!).
 
2014-07-05 04:29:01 PM  
I cannot wait for the Cubs to start a lineup of 2 catchers (one in left), a third baseman at first, and 6 shortstops scattered all over.

Because it's gonna happen.
 
2014-07-05 04:48:37 PM  

Ima10urin8: as a Met fan...  Zach Wheeler for Castro one for one... do it Sandy do it!


Uh.... sure about that? You want to trade a 24 year old pitcher with FOR upside, still making league minimum, for a 24 year old SS who was awful last year, and is under contract until 2020, which would leave your roster completely inflexible? You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30, whereas starters can actually have enduring careers.

Not that it wouldn't be a hilarious typical New York Mets move, but I thought you'd be rooting for *good* things to happen as a fan. Watching the Cubs get rid of the worst of their three young shortstops and getting back what would soon be their best SP would be bad. The Mets finishing behind the Cubs bad.
 
2014-07-05 05:07:44 PM  

Super Chronic: How long before we see Russell in the obligatory "Clark and Addison" photo op with the mascot?


*GOLF CLAP*
 
2014-07-05 05:12:18 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I cannot wait for the Cubs to start a lineup of 2 catchers (one in left), a third baseman at first, and 6 shortstops scattered all over.

Because it's gonna happen.


The A's had four guys who came up as catchers in the starting lineup for a couple games this season: Josh Donaldson at 3B, Stephen Vogt in RF, Derek Norris behind the plate and John Jaso as DH. Brandon Moss and Kyle Blanks both play 1B & OF. Alberto Callapso & Eric Sogard will play all three non-1B IF positions at times. Their closer, Sean Doolittle is a converted 1B. Versatility is good and good players can do many things. Plus, trade chips, since a lot of teams need MLB-quality IFs.
 
2014-07-05 05:14:16 PM  

Herman Borrach: DeWayne Mann: I cannot wait for the Cubs to start a lineup of 2 catchers (one in left), a third baseman at first, and 6 shortstops scattered all over.

Because it's gonna happen.

The A's had four guys who came up as catchers in the starting lineup for a couple games this season: Josh Donaldson at 3B, Stephen Vogt in RF, Derek Norris behind the plate and John Jaso as DH. Brandon Moss and Kyle Blanks both play 1B & OF. Alberto Callapso & Eric Sogard will play all three non-1B IF positions at times. Their closer, Sean Doolittle is a converted 1B. Versatility is good and good players can do many things. Plus, trade chips, since a lot of teams need MLB-quality IFs.


Correction: Callaspo has also played 1B this season.
 
2014-07-05 05:26:04 PM  
The saddest part about all of this was how happy Jeff Samardzija was to get drafted by the Cubs.  He was going on and on about how they're his favorite team and how he dreamed his whole life of being a pitcher for the Cubs.  He even blew off the NFL for the chance.

And, in typical Cubs fashion, they waste away the prime years of his career with 100-loss teams and then trade him away because they're too cheap to keep him around when he's up for a new contract.
 
2014-07-05 05:31:39 PM  

EvilMonkeyBoy: The Cubs now have a player named Addison.

The marketing of that out here is going to be so Damn annoying


But anything hit on Addison St. is a foul ball. Now if they only had had Gary Sheffield and could find a guy named Waveland, they'd have had some marketing mojo -- not that it would have made any difference.
 
2014-07-05 05:46:01 PM  
The Cubs farm system is farking stacked. Actually, it was already stacked. They've now gone plaid. I am liking what I'm seeing from Epstein and Hoyer, even if the incomparably idiotic Chicago sports media will probably biatch about it.
 
2014-07-05 05:48:39 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I cannot wait for the Cubs to start a lineup of 2 catchers (one in left), a third baseman at first, and 6 shortstops scattered all over.

Because it's gonna happen.


Shortstops are the best athletes on the field and can play anywhere, so that's hardly a bad thing.
 
2014-07-05 05:50:16 PM  

lacydog: You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30


Nah. You just park them somewhere else.
 
2014-07-05 05:53:00 PM  

Shaggy_C: And, in typical Cubs fashion, they waste away the prime years of his career with 100-loss teams and then trade him away because they're too cheap to keep him around when he's up for a new contract.


The wasting of the prime years of his career was on Hendry who felt the need to keep him in the bullpen the first 4 years of his career. And it's smart for the Cubs to not pay max money for a #3 pitcher having a career year, since he could bring greater value to the club in the form of prospects (the #3 prospect in baseball is great value). Otherwise, he's going to be 34-36 when the Cubs are ready to compete again.

/you might think this trade was a step back, but the Cubs are facing the right direction
 
2014-07-05 05:58:14 PM  

lacydog: Ima10urin8: as a Met fan...  Zach Wheeler for Castro one for one... do it Sandy do it!

Uh.... sure about that? You want to trade a 24 year old pitcher with FOR upside, still making league minimum, for a 24 year old SS who was awful last year, and is under contract until 2020, which would leave your roster completely inflexible? You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30, whereas starters can actually have enduring careers.

Not that it wouldn't be a hilarious typical New York Mets move, but I thought you'd be rooting for *good* things to happen as a fan. Watching the Cubs get rid of the worst of their three young shortstops and getting back what would soon be their best SP would be bad. The Mets finishing behind the Cubs bad.


I'd lean towards don't do it, for the Mets.  But it would be a lean.  It's too early to tell exactly what sort of player Starlin is.  But if this year is representative, he's a good deal for a very long time.  If he reverts to last year, he sucks.

Wheeler could wind up great or not so great, obviously.  But the Mets have pitching, so why not trade some for a position player?  I think (hope) the Mets will target a bigger hitter (Tulo or something), but we'll see.
 
2014-07-05 06:21:20 PM  

lacydog: You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30


nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com

By the way, more or less all players peak from age 26-29.  The better ones are just able to remain useful despite their decline.
 
2014-07-05 06:40:32 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: I'm looking forward to seeing the A's in the playoffs, they seem so regular seasonish good, but I still don't know if they have enough good players to contend.


The "you can't win the postseason with a bunch of only very good players" thing is really only true of pitchers.  Your offense fields the same 8 or 9 guys they've been going with all season.  Your starting rotation and bullpen are what "compress" to give a larger proportion of innings to the elite players.

Oakland's offense could also take a big jump before the trade deadline.  They're basically playing with 8 guys at this point-- their second basemen have combined to hit .226/.291/.266 with 0 HR, which is so bad I had to make sure I was reading the right columns.  (For comparison, the Cubs' pitching staff is slugging .250.)  They can vastly improve their offense by signing basically any 2B with an average bat.

Oakland also looks on track to lock up their division early, which potentially means they can skip some guys and set up their #1 for Game 1.  The crazy thing about the A's is that they have the best record in MLB, and yet their run differential suggests they're underperforming.
 
2014-07-05 07:05:25 PM  

germ78: CognaciousThunk: EvilMonkeyBoy: The Cubs now have a player named Addison.

The marketing of that out here is going to be so Damn annoying

Maybe so, but he's why they made the trade (along with dumping free agents-to-be). Top prospect; if he pans out they can trade Castro for some pitching. Full circle.

But then I'm a Reds fan, so right now I'm just amused by it all.

The amount of stupid being spewed in the Cubs facebook page comments for the announcement is beyond ridiculous. People keep hanging on to the delusion that Samardzija is an ace that could be built around when he's at best a #3 pitcher nearing 30 with a contract soon to expire. I think he has another year left, but it might be an option year.

The Cubs made out like bandits with two top prospect and a young, high upside pitcher, and the A's got exactly what they needed in rotation depth, since Shark and Hammel can immediately be plugged in the A's 3 and 4 slots.


Apparently, the guy behind the Not Baseball Tonight Twitter is a Cubs fan:

BREAKING: On this 4th of July, the #Cubs have traded Jeff Samardzija, declaring their independence from the postseason.
- NOT Baseball Tonight (@NOTMLBTonight) July 5, 2014

...because a team 7 games under .500 11.5 games out in the Central and 7.5 games out of the Wild Card was October-bound with him.
 
2014-07-05 07:15:32 PM  

lacydog: You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30


...dude, I know someone already brought up Jeter, but we'll do one from your own backyard: Omar Vizquel.
 
2014-07-05 07:29:48 PM  

IlGreven: lacydog: You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30

...dude, I know someone already brought up Jeter, but we'll do one from your own backyard: Omar Vizquel.


Or Cal Ripken, who played shortstop thru his 35th birthday. Or Ozzie Smith who played SS til age 41.
Maybe you're thinking of NFL running backs.
 
2014-07-05 08:18:58 PM  
Man, I really hope Starlin Castro is prepared to move to the outfield. Batting fourth seems to be agreeing with him, and it seems to be playing to his strengths, inasmuch as he's walking more, and trying to steal bases less. It would be nice if the strikeouts went down a little, but at least they are a little easier to swallow with more HRs. Putting him in LF would hopefully minimize his defensive issues, and the Cubs aren't really stacked with OF prospects.
 
2014-07-05 11:40:30 PM  

neon_god: knight_on_the_rail: I'm looking forward to seeing the A's in the playoffs, they seem so regular seasonish good, but I still don't know if they have enough good players to contend.

They don't have a ton of superstars beyond Donaldson, but they're ridiculously deep. All quality players 1 to 25. Now that they have Samardzija, their rotation matches up well with anyone except maybe the Dodgers. They have the most runs scored and fourth fewest allowed in baseball. I'd say they're the best team in baseball, and it isn't real close.


Their run differential before the trade was the best in baseball. By a wide margin. Not even close now.
 
2014-07-05 11:50:48 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The Cubs farm system is farking stacked. Actually, it was already stacked. They've now gone plaid. I am liking what I'm seeing from Epstein and Hoyer, even if the incomparably idiotic Chicago sports media will probably biatch about it.


I your mjst be listening to the station on the low end of the dial. Try flipping up by about 330 KHz.

//epstein is crushing it, ricketts is being crushed.
 
2014-07-06 12:20:18 AM  

SlothB77: neon_god: knight_on_the_rail: I'm looking forward to seeing the A's in the playoffs, they seem so regular seasonish good, but I still don't know if they have enough good players to contend.

They don't have a ton of superstars beyond Donaldson, but they're ridiculously deep. All quality players 1 to 25. Now that they have Samardzija, their rotation matches up well with anyone except maybe the Dodgers. They have the most runs scored and fourth fewest allowed in baseball. I'd say they're the best team in baseball, and it isn't real close.

Their run differential before the trade was the best in baseball. By a wide margin. Not even close now.


It was the best since the 116 win Mariners in 01. They're ridiculously good.
 
2014-07-06 12:46:46 AM  

SlothB77: Their run differential before the trade was the best in baseball. By a wide margin. Not even close now.


They're behind the Tigers and Nationals in team fWAR and barely ahead of the Angels, Dodgers and Braves; the runs scored and allowed were probably due to regress (the disconnect might have something to do with Scott Friggin' Kazmir and Jesse Friggin' Chavez being at the front of their rotation). But now that they have a real live front-of-the-rotation starter, I don't see anyone catching up with them in the pennant race.
 
2014-07-06 04:06:59 AM  

Super Chronic: SlothB77: Their run differential before the trade was the best in baseball. By a wide margin. Not even close now.

They're behind the Tigers and Nationals in team fWAR and barely ahead of the Angels, Dodgers and Braves; the runs scored and allowed were probably due to regress (the disconnect might have something to do with Scott Friggin' Kazmir and Jesse Friggin' Chavez being at the front of their rotation). But now that they have a real live front-of-the-rotation starter, I don't see anyone catching up with them in the pennant race.


If their numbers remain essentially the same, the A's will be a good sample of the effectiveness of fWAR as a predictive tool. Essentially, even taking into account the A's home-field effects and their below-average fielding, the outcomes should come out more or less the same. That is, 99-102 wins (their current pace) v. 103+.

Then again, it's only a half-season and doesn't take into account changes to competitors' rosters.

If I'm going to guess as to why the A's are underperforming their run differential, I'd put it on their mediocre defensive numbers, which have improved in the past month but were unexpectedly poor in the first two months of the season.
 
2014-07-06 11:58:04 AM  

Badmoodman: IlGreven: lacydog: You do know that shortstops typically peak around age 27 and are pretty much done by 30

...dude, I know someone already brought up Jeter, but we'll do one from your own backyard: Omar Vizquel.

Or Cal Ripken, who played shortstop thru his 35th birthday. Or Ozzie Smith who played SS til age 41.
Maybe you're thinking of NFL running backs.


I could be crazy, but those examples you're listing seem to suggest that Jeter is still playing SS because he's valuable defensively.
 
2014-07-06 12:50:20 PM  

jdjoker: I could be crazy, but those examples you're listing seem to suggest that Jeter is still playing SS because he's valuable defensively.


Why?  Lots of players are poor defenders but stay on because their bat makes up the gap.

Jeter's a shell of his former self, but his offense (.266/.319/.322, good baserunning) isn't that awful relative to the MLB-average shortstop (.254/.312/.376).  Given the Yankees' sad-ass farm system, who is he blocking?  Brendan Ryan?
 
2014-07-06 02:50:19 PM  
But usually we call those some-bat, no-field guys "the right fielder" or "occasional pinch hitter". Some leagues even set aside a place in the batting order for something called a "designated hitter".

Comparing Jeter offensively to the average SS isn't helping his case or yours, since he's demonstrably a poorer fielder than average.

It wouldn't kill me to see the Yankees win one for Jeter on his way out, if nothing else than as a big old fark you to ARod. I don't think it will happen, but not because of Jeter, either.
 
2014-07-06 09:01:25 PM  

jdjoker: But usually we call those some-bat, no-field guys "the right fielder" or "occasional pinch hitter". Some leagues even set aside a place in the batting order for something called a "designated hitter".

Comparing Jeter offensively to the average SS isn't helping his case or yours, since he's demonstrably a poorer fielder than average.

It wouldn't kill me to see the Yankees win one for Jeter on his way out, if nothing else than as a big old fark you to ARod. I don't think it will happen, but not because of Jeter, either.


True; their pitching staff reminds me of their staffs in the late 80s.  Though given the unholy trilogy of Mujica, Badenhop & Miller, my team's not much better.
 
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