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(BBC-US)   Open Carry Texas convinces another major business to ban guns   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Target, MDA, demonstrations, rights activist  
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3756 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2014 at 4:40 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-02 01:16:57 PM  
These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.
 
2014-07-02 01:22:06 PM  

RedPhoenix122: These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.


They're certainly playing into the stereotype that people who carry guns are attempting to make up for various inadequacies.
 
2014-07-02 01:22:46 PM  
Maybe the sign was getting shot up.
 
2014-07-02 01:47:34 PM  
I was under the impression that the open carry crowd were more Wal-Mart's demographic than Target's.
 
2014-07-02 01:53:46 PM  

jake_lex: RedPhoenix122: These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.

They're certainly playing into the stereotype that people who carry guns are attempting to make up for various inadequacies.


*TWEET*

dittybopper rule violation.  Anytime someone brings up such inadequacies in a gun thread, dittybopper invokes some made up meme and declares you the loser of the thread.
 
2014-07-02 02:00:54 PM  
Insert "You're Not Helping" picture here.

However, if you read Target's statement, they're saying "Please don't do that anymore".  They aren't actually banning guns, they're "respectfully request"ing that you don't bring them in.

Being private property, they *COULD* ban guns completely on their property, but they aren't actually doing that.  Like Starbucks and Chipotle, they're basically walking a very fine line.
 
2014-07-02 02:10:52 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: jake_lex: RedPhoenix122: These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.

They're certainly playing into the stereotype that people who carry guns are attempting to make up for various inadequacies.

*TWEET*

dittybopper rule violation.  Anytime someone brings up such inadequacies in a gun thread, dittybopper invokes some made up meme and declares you the loser of the thread.


Oh, you mean Markley's Law?  The one that's been around since 2010?

I didn't invoke it because it says "various inadequacies", which could be emotional, intellectual, muscular, etc., and not just genitalia related.

Besides which, you called it for me.


For those who won't check the link, Markley's Law is a variant of Godwin's Law, but applied to gun rights discussions online*.

A variant of Godwin's Law: As an online discussion of gun owners' rights grows longer, the probability of an ad hominem attack involving penis size approaches 1.

It's especially sad if it happens in the first few posts.

*Only online, because I've never seen anyone walk up to someone with a gun and say "Sorry about your penis".   That would take actual courage.
 
2014-07-02 02:10:58 PM  

dittybopper: Insert "You're Not Helping" picture here.

However, if you read Target's statement, they're saying "Please don't do that anymore".  They aren't actually banning guns, they're "respectfully request"ing that you don't bring them in.

Being private property, they *COULD* ban guns completely on their property, but they aren't actually doing that.  Like Starbucks and Chipotle, they're basically walking a very fine line.


Like when the vending maching says "Please use exact change". Or you go in the library and it says "Please be quiet".

/don't get me wrong, I prefer declarative statement so you know exactly where you stand.
 
2014-07-02 02:11:49 PM  
The NRA and friends have spent a lot of time and money framing the argument in terms of the Big Government trying to ban guns because of Librul agenda or Socialism or something.

It's kind of funny to have this kind of grassroots groundswell of people saying "please don't do that", since it completely takes the wind out of those particular sails.
 
2014-07-02 02:17:32 PM  
Assholes, STOP!
 
2014-07-02 02:22:18 PM  

enry: dittybopper: Insert "You're Not Helping" picture here.

However, if you read Target's statement, they're saying "Please don't do that anymore".  They aren't actually banning guns, they're "respectfully request"ing that you don't bring them in.

Being private property, they *COULD* ban guns completely on their property, but they aren't actually doing that.  Like Starbucks and Chipotle, they're basically walking a very fine line.

Like when the vending maching says "Please use exact change". Or you go in the library and it says "Please be quiet".

/don't get me wrong, I prefer declarative statement so you know exactly where you stand.


Well, no, it's different.  And even some of the people on the other side recognize that it's a statement without much bite to it.

And actual bite would be "It iscompany policy to post all stores in compliance with state laws to forbid the carrying of firearms within".

This way, they can say they did something so that Bloomberg Demands Action goes away and doesn't bother them anymore, and the OCT idiots stay away, and they get back to making money, which is really all they care about in the first place.
 
2014-07-02 02:45:09 PM  
Maybe a gunfight is just what Target needs to distract from the soul-crushing trying-way-too-hard-to-be-hip atmosphere
 
2014-07-02 02:52:00 PM  

MrBallou: The NRA and friends have spent a lot of time and money framing the argument in terms of the Big Government trying to ban guns because of Librul agenda or Socialism or something.

It's kind of funny to have this kind of grassroots groundswell of people saying "please don't do that", since it completely takes the wind out of those particular sails.


It's not grassroots.  It's largely astroturf.

The founder, Shannon Watts, isn't just a mom.  She's a well-known and politically well-connected public relations professional with strong ties to the Democrats.  And the funding doesn't come from their membership, it comes from Michael Bloomberg.  In fact, if you want to donate to them, the money goes to Michael Bloomberg's group "Everytown for Gun Safety":
https://momsdemandaction.nationbuilder.com/donate
If you prefer, checks made out to Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund may be mailed to: 
      Everytown for Gun Safety 
      P.O. Box 3886 
      New York, NY 10163



 And their "membership" seems to consist largely of Facebook likes.  If they have more than 10 to 20,000 actual engaged members, I'd be surprised.

It's kind of like the Million Mom March back in 1999 and 2000.  Remember them?  The founder of that one, Donna Dees-Thomases, presented herself as just a mom also.  But she was also politically connected with the Democrats, and a public relations professional.  And they were just a flash in the pan:  Within just 3 years after their formation, they didn't exist anymore.

I suspect the same thing is going to happen here.

Prediction:  By 2017, "Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America" will have merged into some other group and essentially ceased to exist.  If they follow the same trajectory of the Million Mom March, 2014 will be their peak, and it's all downhill from here.
 
2014-07-02 02:54:53 PM  
Why are these guys choosing upper-middle class places to strut around with their guns?  Ashleigh doesn't want Cletus and Travis hanging around the places she goes even when he's not carrying his piece.  Why would she want to look at fat guys in shorts and wrap-around shades at all?

It's a dumb move because upper-middle class people dictate where the culture is going in this country.  They are the media, the doctors, the lawyers, and the managers.  They are extremely influential when compared to the larger classes (like the working) based purely on their wealth.  Don't make enemies of them.  You think they like it when they come home from work and their wife tells them GI Joe was flashing his piece at Target while she was there with the kids?  Wake up.

They already forced gay marriage on you.  They have that power.  Get smart.
 
2014-07-02 02:55:37 PM  

Cyrus the Mediocre: Maybe a gunfight is just what Target needs to distract from the soul-crushing trying-way-too-hard-to-be-hip atmosphere


I'm a hipster gun owner.  I only shoot a flintlock in caliber you've probably never heard of, .54 caliber.
 
2014-07-02 02:59:15 PM  
I'll still carry concealed in Target--just like I always have.
 
2014-07-02 03:12:25 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Why are these guys choosing upper-middle class places to strut around with their guns?  Ashleigh doesn't want Cletus and Travis hanging around the places she goes even when he's not carrying his piece.  Why would she want to look at fat guys in shorts and wrap-around shades at all?

It's a dumb move because upper-middle class people dictate where the culture is going in this country.  They are the media, the doctors, the lawyers, and the managers.  They are extremely influential when compared to the larger classes (like the working) based purely on their wealth.  Don't make enemies of them.  You think they like it when they come home from work and their wife tells them GI Joe was flashing his piece at Target while she was there with the kids?  Wake up.

They already forced gay marriage on you.  They have that power.  Get smart.


The root reason that OCT is doing this is to get the Texas legislature to approve open carry of handguns, which is illegal in Texas.   Odd as it may seem, it was illegal to carry a handgun, concealed or not, up until 1995.  Prior to that, Texas, despite its reputation, was a "No Carry" state.

They don't really want to be carrying around rifles and shotguns.

They want to make sure they don't get arrested for something like inadvertently showing their concealed handgun (like if their shirt rides up), or even having their gun noticeably "printing" on their clothing, and yes, for actually intentionally carrying a handgun openly.

Having said that, some form of public protests, if not done very carefully, can actually be counter-productive.  OCT seems to have learned that lesson rather late.  Their updated guidelines from a month ago say "don't go into corporate businesses", but the damage may have already been done.
 
2014-07-02 03:19:51 PM  
dittybopper:

The root reason that OCT is doing this is to get the Texas legislature to approve open carry of handguns, which is illegal in Texas.   Odd as it may seem, it was illegal to carry a handgun, concealed or not, up until 1995.  Prior to that, Texas, despite its reputation, was a "No Carry" state.

It shouldn't be that hard to get the TX legislature to allow OCT.  I don't see how these protests are supposed to help.
 
2014-07-02 03:20:15 PM  
I don't think the outdoor furniture department needs defending quite so vigorously.

BravadoGT: I'll still carry concealed in Target--just like I always have.


See? This guy's on it. We're good, rifle guys.
 
2014-07-02 03:31:11 PM  

BravadoGT: I'll still carry concealed in Target--just like I always have.


Why violate their request to not carry in their stores rather than either leaving your gun in your car or simply shopping elsewhere?  Is there something that you desperately need that is sold only at Target?  Are you actually concerned you'll need a gun while shopping there?
 
2014-07-02 03:35:44 PM  

Rapmaster2000: dittybopper:

The root reason that OCT is doing this is to get the Texas legislature to approve open carry of handguns, which is illegal in Texas.   Odd as it may seem, it was illegal to carry a handgun, concealed or not, up until 1995.  Prior to that, Texas, despite its reputation, was a "No Carry" state.

It shouldn't be that hard to get the TX legislature to allow OCT.  I don't see how these protests are supposed to help.


Apparently it is.  They didn't *ANY* handgun carry at all until just 19 years ago.
 
2014-07-02 03:36:19 PM  

dittybopper: Rapmaster2000: dittybopper:

The root reason that OCT is doing this is to get the Texas legislature to approve open carry of handguns, which is illegal in Texas.   Odd as it may seem, it was illegal to carry a handgun, concealed or not, up until 1995.  Prior to that, Texas, despite its reputation, was a "No Carry" state.

It shouldn't be that hard to get the TX legislature to allow OCT.  I don't see how these protests are supposed to help.

Apparently it is.  They didn't *ANY* handgun carry at all until just 19 years ago.


Apparently I a word.
 
2014-07-02 03:46:35 PM  

dittybopper: Apparently I a word.


You accidentally the whole thing?
 
2014-07-02 03:53:07 PM  

timujin: BravadoGT: I'll still carry concealed in Target--just like I always have.

Why violate their request to not carry in their stores rather than either leaving your gun in your car or simply shopping elsewhere?  Is there something that you desperately need that is sold only at Target?  Are you actually concerned you'll need a gun while shopping there?


it doesn't do me any good sitting in my car. And its nothing special about target. I live in a big city with big city crime. I don't expect that I will need it at any given time, but if I do I'll be glad to at least have that option...
 
2014-07-02 03:55:31 PM  
pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-07-02 03:59:40 PM  

TwistedIvory: dittybopper: Apparently I a word.

You accidentally the whole thing?


It would appear that have.
 
2014-07-02 04:02:06 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]


So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.
 
2014-07-02 04:11:48 PM  

Di Atribe: Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]

So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.


This is the type of gun nut that bothers me.  He is open-carrying with an obvious desire to provoke an incident.  He is there not to shop for woven baskets, but just hoping the management says something so he can proclaim his rights and possibly get interviewed by the local news.
 
2014-07-02 04:16:03 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]


What a cool hat.  I think he hangs around the MRA subreddit.
 
2014-07-02 04:18:56 PM  

Di Atribe: Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]

So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.


See? This is why people have stereotypes of Texas. The wrong side of the freakin' Metroplex.
 
2014-07-02 04:21:43 PM  

BravadoGT: timujin: BravadoGT: I'll still carry concealed in Target--just like I always have.

Why violate their request to not carry in their stores rather than either leaving your gun in your car or simply shopping elsewhere?  Is there something that you desperately need that is sold only at Target?  Are you actually concerned you'll need a gun while shopping there?

it doesn't do me any good sitting in my car. And its nothing special about target. I live in a big city with big city crime. I don't expect that I will need it at any given time, but if I do I'll be glad to at least have that option...


I thought the whole point of you living way out in the sticks was to avoid big city crime.
 
2014-07-02 04:23:11 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Di Atribe: Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]

So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.

This is the type of gun nut that bothers me.  He is open-carrying with an obvious desire to provoke an incident.  He is there not to shop for woven baskets, but just hoping the management says something so he can proclaim his rights and possibly get interviewed by the local news.


How *DARE* he try to push the issue into the face of the public.  He should just sit quietly at the back of the bus.
 
2014-07-02 04:25:34 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Di Atribe: Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]

So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.

This is the type of gun nut that bothers me.  He is open-carrying with an obvious desire to provoke an incident.  He is there not to shop for woven baskets, but just hoping the management says something so he can proclaim his rights and possibly get interviewed by the local news.


He belongs to the same group that the NRA disassociated themselves from (even if they backpedaled). When the NRA tells you, "Hey, how about you dial it back just a smidge?"  You might be going too far. He's going to push boundaries until there's an incident. There is no way to get him to stop. He thinks he's being oppressed when really, he won a long time ago.
 
2014-07-02 04:30:22 PM  

dittybopper: How *DARE* he try to push the issue into the face of the public.


Why does the issue need pushing? Do you believe that there are not enough firearm freedoms in Texas?
 
2014-07-02 04:40:41 PM  

Di Atribe: dittybopper: How *DARE* he try to push the issue into the face of the public.

Why does the issue need pushing? Do you believe that there are not enough firearm freedoms in Texas?


They want to not be arrested and prosecuted for "open carry of a handgun" because of inadvertently showing their guns.  Texas law is such that even if the gun is concealed, but it "prints" noticeably on your clothing, you can be arrested for "open carry".

And yeah, they want to be able to have the option to legally carrying their handguns openly, like the residents of most states.  Texas is one of only 5 states that expressly forbids the open carrying of handguns, licensed or not.

Texas has a reputation for being very "gun friendly", but it really doesn't deserve that reputation.  It's not like Vermont.
 
2014-07-02 04:42:34 PM  

RedPhoenix122: These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.


False flag open carry
 
2014-07-02 04:43:18 PM  
Target didn't ban guns.  They asked for customers to not bring guns with them.
 
2014-07-02 04:44:00 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]


god help any minority that tries to nab that man's fedora
 
2014-07-02 04:45:18 PM  

dittybopper: It's not like Vermont.


There's an understatement if I ever heard one.
 
2014-07-02 04:45:42 PM  
They should start wearing black uniforms and riot gear while carrying.

Cause nothing says friendly neighborhood good guy better than police gear.
 
2014-07-02 04:47:04 PM  

dittybopper: Cyrus the Mediocre: Maybe a gunfight is just what Target needs to distract from the soul-crushing trying-way-too-hard-to-be-hip atmosphere

I'm a hipster gun owner.  I only shoot a flintlock in caliber you've probably never heard of, .54 caliber.


54 is a pretty common caliber.  If you want to be truly a hipster, you need by 52 cal. black powder muzzle loader.

/not joking, seriously I inherited a 52 cal. black powder muzzle loader.
//no idea what to do with it.  I'd have to make my own rounds and that seems like a lot of work
///slashies come in triplicate
 
2014-07-02 04:47:04 PM  

gingerjet: Target didn't ban guns.  They asked for customers to not bring guns with them.


Wish they'd ask 350 b customers not to wear tube tops. It's distracting, though probably not the same liability problem.
 
2014-07-02 04:47:30 PM  

Di Atribe: Three Crooked Squirrels: Di Atribe: Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]

So glad he lives on the opposite side of DFW from me. What a douchecanoe. The woven storage baskets don't need defending from tyranny, guy.

This is the type of gun nut that bothers me.  He is open-carrying with an obvious desire to provoke an incident.  He is there not to shop for woven baskets, but just hoping the management says something so he can proclaim his rights and possibly get interviewed by the local news.

He belongs to the same group that the NRA disassociated themselves from (even if they backpedaled). When the NRA tells you, "Hey, how about you dial it back just a smidge?"  You might be going too far. He's going to push boundaries until there's an incident. There is no way to get him to stop. He thinks he's being oppressed when really, he won a long time ago.


TOC morons get banned from firearm related forums.

Nobody thinks they are helping.
 
2014-07-02 04:47:31 PM  

dittybopper: How *DARE* he try to push the issue into the face of the public. He should just sit quietly at the back of the bus.


so whats the internet rule for annoying white guys AWing and then people on the internet comparing them to the struggle of rosa parks when called on it?
 
2014-07-02 04:48:47 PM  
Though again, OCT is a bit too attention-whorish.  But at least they are starting to get the message that some of their earlier tactics are counter-productive:

For all further open carry walks with long guns, we are adopting the following unified protocol and general policy to best ensure meeting our respective legislative mission to legalize open carry:

1) Always notify local law enforcement prior to the walk, especially the day of
2) Carry Flags and signs during your walk to increase awareness
3) Carry the long gun on a sling, not held
4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all
5) If asked to leave, do so quietly and do not make it a problem
6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business
7) Do not go into businesses with TABC signs posted with a long gun (Ever)
8) If at all possible, keep to local small businesses that are 2A friendly

We ask that members take a step back and make an objective assessment of what we are trying to accomplish and help us to get open carry passed for everyone. We must be willing and able to recognize what works and what doesn't, but we need your help to make these efforts a success. It will be very difficult to spin holstered, black powder revolvers into a negative story. This is the goal we are currently striving for, open carry of handguns.

 http://opencarrytexas.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/joint-statement-on-o c-o f-long-arms/

Still, much of the damage has already been done.
 
2014-07-02 04:49:16 PM  
This isn't a ban. It's a public request to placate the Xanax & box-wine addled harpies of the "Mom's Demand" groups to get them to STFU and go away instead of spamming Target's page on Facebook. This happens to a lot of stores that put up non-compliant "no guns" signs in states with specific requirements: it's like an Underground Railroad sign that says "If you're carrying, come on in, but I'm sorry that I have to put up a sign to get some people to shut up and quit protesting my business with signs."
 
2014-07-02 04:49:20 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 599x623]


Ugh.
Better than some fat neckbeard with a long gun.  I guess.
 
2014-07-02 04:49:38 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Why are these guys choosing upper-middle class places to strut around with their guns?


They're too chickensh*t to go anywhere else?



Link
 
2014-07-02 04:49:59 PM  

tlchwi02: dittybopper: How *DARE* he try to push the issue into the face of the public. He should just sit quietly at the back of the bus.

so whats the internet rule for annoying white guys AWing and then people on the internet comparing them to the struggle of rosa parks when called on it?


Theyre just trying to do for guns what gay pride parades and public displays of affection did for LGBT.
 
2014-07-02 04:50:25 PM  

dittybopper: Three Crooked Squirrels: jake_lex: RedPhoenix122: These guys are doing more for gun control than school shootings.

They're certainly playing into the stereotype that people who carry guns are attempting to make up for various inadequacies.

*TWEET*

dittybopper rule violation.  Anytime someone brings up such inadequacies in a gun thread, dittybopper invokes some made up meme and declares you the loser of the thread.

Oh, you mean Markley's Law?  The one that's been around since 2010?

I didn't invoke it because it says "various inadequacies", which could be emotional, intellectual, muscular, etc., and not just genitalia related.

Besides which, you called it for me.


For those who won't check the link, Markley's Law is a variant of Godwin's Law, but applied to gun rights discussions online*.

A variant of Godwin's Law: As an online discussion of gun owners' rights grows longer, the probability of an ad hominem attack involving penis size approaches 1.

It's especially sad if it happens in the first few posts.

*Only online, because I've never seen anyone walk up to someone with a gun and say "Sorry about your penis".   That would take actual courage.


As laws go, Markley's Law is small, flaccid, and inadequate.
 
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