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(MyFox Atlanta)   "911 what's your emergency?" "I saw a woman get carjacked" "Sir, did the suspect have a gun?" "No, he threw her out of her car and stole it" "That's a robbery" "Can you send a cop now?" "Let's further debate the meaning of robbery vs. carjacking"   (myfoxatlanta.com) divider line 52
    More: Asinine, carjacking, DeKalb County  
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6098 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2014 at 1:24 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-02 09:56:05 AM  
In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.
 
2014-07-02 10:11:45 AM  
Damned robber was probably in the road too - I would have called it in as 'jaywalking with intent to duff someone up'. That would have got them rozzers moving.
 
2014-07-02 10:24:53 AM  
Should have told the cops the guy was gay and Muslim.  They would have been there in a hot second.
 
2014-07-02 12:16:40 PM  
Since the operator is sending the cops it behooves them to find out as much about the crime as possible.
 
2014-07-02 01:27:18 PM  
Good thing he didn't use the wrong form of 'your'
 
2014-07-02 01:28:22 PM  
They probably have orders to try and downgrade crime reports to less serious forms, so it looks like crime is decreasing when they are simply shuffling the labels.
 
2014-07-02 01:30:31 PM  

ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.


The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.
 
2014-07-02 01:34:29 PM  
This is important, or not- depends on what you consider important. You might think it depends on what the definition of "is" is but  it doesn't. But that isn't what's important here. Unless it is important of course.
 
2014-07-02 01:35:01 PM  

Hoarseman: They probably have orders to try and downgrade crime reports to less serious forms, so it looks like crime is decreasing when they are simply shuffling the labels.


Shouldn't that be the prosecutor's job?

/in other news, it looks like there is a job opening for a 911 dispatcher in Georgia
 
2014-07-02 01:35:40 PM  
Yeah, he should have said the guy had a gun, that would have gotten a faster response - everyone knows the cops ignore theft.  Oh, wait...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/911-callers-lie-led-to -s hooting-of-college-students-police-allege.html
 
2014-07-02 01:36:53 PM  
They're in Atlanta. How fast could the driver get away?
 
2014-07-02 01:37:34 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Since the operator is sending the cops it behooves them to find out as much about the crime as possible.


FTFA:  911 operator: 'Well sir, that's not a carjacking, that's a theft.'

I work with some people like this - it's crucially important that they be right, and everyone know they're right, before they'll consent to do their job. The operator may have been technically right (the best kind) but all they had to do was relay the info properly to the cops. There's no reason to try to school the caller too.

I was on a con-call the other day in which I asked the other party if they'd seen some info I'd sent in an e-mail. They said no. I clarified that the data was in an attached spreadsheet, on this particular tab, and asked if they'd at least received it. They then stated "oh, sure, I saw that data, but that was in the ATTACHMENT, not the E-MAIL."

Seriously? Same bullshiat. OK, look, I'll send you a text officially admitting that you're smarter than I am. Now that that's out of the way, can we assume the obvious is in fact obvious, and get on to solving the problem?
 
GBB
2014-07-02 01:38:53 PM  

JesusJuice: ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.

The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.


THAT!

Civilians don't know what crimes are called.  Strip out what they call it and listen to the elements of the situation and code it accordingly.  In Florida, hitting someone is called "battery", while "assault" is threatening to cause bodily harm while having the means to inflict it.  Some states use those terms interchangeably or have different definitions.  Many times, my callers will say they were assaulted when they've actually been battered.  But who is really going to call 911 and say they've been battered?

911 isn't for educating callers.
 
2014-07-02 01:39:27 PM  

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Good thing he didn't use the wrong form of 'your'


That's youse problem right there.
 
2014-07-02 01:40:43 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Since the operator is sending the cops it behooves them to find out as much about the crime as possible.


Um, what else did they need to know? Location. Man. Woman. Woman thrown to ground. Car stolen. No gun.

You want the criminal's favorite candy bar and the baseball team he roots for, too?
 
2014-07-02 01:42:19 PM  

GBB: But who is really going to call 911 and say they've been battered?


www.keystonefoods.com
 
2014-07-02 01:43:04 PM  

JesusJuice: ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.

The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.


There is no evidence at all that the operator "wasted time". Depending on their system, she may well have already keyed in vital information to have a unit sent, despite the fact that she was still jabbering.

That, and there is a big difference between simple robbery and robbery with the threat of a weapon. You know, the whole "armed and dangerous" thing, which requires an immediate response. A simple theft of anything -- car, phone, whatever -- is not an "emergency" situation.

Just like there is also a difference between robbery and burglary, even if the end result is some shiat was stolen from your home.
 
2014-07-02 01:44:11 PM  

Sentient: The operator may have been technically right (the best kind) but all they had to do was relay the info properly to the cops. There's no reason to try to school the caller too.


1.bp.blogspot.com

"You knew what you were getting when you hired me!"
 
2014-07-02 01:44:16 PM  
I've always wondered why 911 operators ask so many irrelevant questions. It's almost as if you must first pass the silly question quiz before they will take your call seriously.

Me: Someone is shooting gun into the crowd!
911: How many shots were fired?
Me: WTF? Who cares? When I heard shots, it didn't occur to me to start counting them.
911: Sir, what color is the boathouse at Hereford?
Me: ?
 
2014-07-02 01:45:49 PM  
www.911dispatch.com
 
2014-07-02 01:46:12 PM  

Priapetic: Yeah, he should have said the guy had a gun, that would have gotten a faster response - everyone knows the cops ignore theft.  Oh, wait...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/911-callers-lie-led-to -s hooting-of-college-students-police-allege.html


WTF.

The cops would have shot that kid regardless of the 911 call.
 
2014-07-02 01:46:41 PM  

WelldeadLink: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Good thing he didn't use the wrong form of 'your'

That's you'se problem right there.


Pet peeve.
 
2014-07-02 01:46:57 PM  

Tonto's Expanding Headband: I've always wondered why 911 operators ask so many irrelevant questions. It's almost as if you must first pass the silly question quiz before they will take your call seriously.

Me: Someone is shooting gun into the crowd!
911: How many shots were fired?
Me: WTF? Who cares? When I heard shots, it didn't occur to me to start counting them.
911: Sir, what color is the boathouse at Hereford?
Me: ?


You were ambushed by a cup of coffee.
 
2014-07-02 01:46:58 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: There is no evidence at all that the operator "wasted time". Depending on their system, she may well have already keyed in vital information to have a unit sent, despite the fact that she was still jabbering.


I'd say the 38 minute response to a screaming woman on the ground was evidence.  Presumably it took even longer for fire/medical to respond.

Unless we're talking about San Francisco, Oakland, or Detroit, that's far from target response times.
 
2014-07-02 01:48:14 PM  
Audio of 911 call is HERE.
 
2014-07-02 01:49:56 PM  

99.998er: [www.911dispatch.com image 318x251]


Where did the deer come from.
 
2014-07-02 01:50:56 PM  
A land-line 911 tells dispatchers where you are, but a cellphone 911 won't, so you need to give your location first. My local 911 dispatch also has a cellphone 911 number, so I don't get routed to the Highway Patrol.

But, yeah someone witnesses a crime, they are in panic mode and flustered by having to debate the issue.
 
2014-07-02 01:53:28 PM  

Tonto's Expanding Headband: I've always wondered why 911 operators ask so many irrelevant questions. It's almost as if you must first pass the silly question quiz before they will take your call seriously.

Me: Someone is shooting gun into the crowd!
911: How many shots were fired?
Me: WTF? Who cares? When I heard shots, it didn't occur to me to start counting them.
911: Sir, what color is the boathouse at Hereford?
Me: ?


I was in a class in my school's library when we thought we heard a shooting.  Turned out to be construction (nail gun fired with gunpowder right above us).  This sounds silly, but other people in the class who had more familiarity with guns than me were all "yeah, those are gunshots" and we all dove to the ground.

One woman called 911.  The 911 operator demanded to know a lot of info we couldn't easily provide.

Which end of the building are you in?  Uh... the middle of it.
Where are the shots coming from?  No idea.  It sounds like right above us.
How many shooters are there?  fark if I know.

And the operator get mad when we couldn't answer these questions.  It was kinda strange.
 
2014-07-02 01:57:03 PM  
Even with a gun it's only one star.
 
2014-07-02 01:57:43 PM  

danielscissorhands: Audio of 911 call is HERE.


The explanation makes some sense.  The 911 operative confused the carjacking theft robbery call for another incident in the area involving a person breaking a car window to commit a theft.

She still messed up as she inattentively missed the fact this incident and the broken window had no relation.
 
GBB
2014-07-02 01:57:46 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: JesusJuice: ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.

The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.

There is no evidence at all that the operator "wasted time". Depending on their system, she may well have already keyed in vital information to have a unit sent, despite the fact that she was still jabbering.

That, and there is a big difference between simple robbery and robbery with the threat of a weapon. You know, the whole "armed and dangerous" thing, which requires an immediate response. A simple theft of anything -- car, phone, whatever -- is not an "emergency" situation.

Just like there is also a difference between robbery and burglary, even if the end result is some shiat was stolen from your home.


True, the 911 call taker was multitasking when they miscoded the call while explaining the difference in the elements of the 2 crimes.  And while there is a difference between an armed and dangerous suspect taking your car and someone stealing it from your driveway overnight, there is also a distinct sense of urgency when someone physically removes you from your car to take it.  That difference is motivation ... for the cops.  Generally, they still like responding quickly to felonies where there's a good possibility of making a quick arrest, even if they are lessor degrees, because it looks good on their stats.  "Car stolen overnight?  pfft, it's gone dude, and I'm on break."
 
2014-07-02 01:59:54 PM  

gregory311: You want the criminal's favorite candy bar and the baseball team he roots for, too?


I didn't know you eat candy bars or root for baseball teams.
 
2014-07-02 02:06:41 PM  

Electrify: Hoarseman: They probably have orders to try and downgrade crime reports to less serious forms, so it looks like crime is decreasing when they are simply shuffling the labels.

Shouldn't that be the prosecutor's job?

/in other news, it looks like there is a job opening for a 911 dispatcher in Georgia


Nope, it's based on reported crime, though as others have commented the 911 operator may have confused two different cases.
 
2014-07-02 02:13:25 PM  
csb...

I lived in a sketchy apartment complex when I was younger, and on three occasions I called 911.  The first time, a man and woman were having a knock-down, drag out fight in the breezeway outside my door. Never did see the cops show up.

The second time, I heard yelling and gunshots from a couple of buildings over. Dispatcher asked about what the shooters looked like, and several questions that I couldn't answer (I only heard it, I didn't see anything). No cops showed up.

Third time, there was a group of migrant construction workers, who were staying in one of the apartments in my building, in the parking lot drinking and taunting residents as they walked by. They were gettting out of hand, and it was late, so I dialed 911. I think I said something to the effect of "There is a group of Mexicans who are drinking and starting to get out of hand" and about 30 seconds later, a half dozen police units show up, and round up the whole group.

SO, shots fired and physical assault didn't get nearly as much police/911 attention as Mexicans drinking in the parking lot.
 
2014-07-02 02:21:31 PM  

Dafatone: I was in a class in my school's library when we thought we heard a shooting. Turned out to be construction (nail gun fired with gunpowder right above us). This sounds silly, but other people in the class who had more familiarity with guns than me were all "yeah, those are gunshots" and we all dove to the ground.

One woman called 911. The 911 operator demanded to know a lot of info we couldn't easily provide.

Which end of the building are you in? Uh... the middle of it.
Where are the shots coming from? No idea. It sounds like right above us.
How many shooters are there? fark if I know.

And the operator get mad when we couldn't answer these questions. It was kinda strange.



Exactly. I guess they are trying to engage the caller and get as much information as possible while it is still fresh. But I think it would be more productive to say something more like "OK, the PD is on the way. But is very important that you stay on the phone with me."

I once lived in a very skeezy area and there was a unfamiliar guy sitting in an unfamiliar car just outside my apartment building. There were at least 3 single women who lived alone in this little apartment building, so just to be safe I called the police to come check it out. (I don't think I called 911).
Conversation went like this:
Me: I'm at (address of skeezy apartment building) and there is a strange guy who does not live here sitting in a car in front of the building. Can you send a unit by?
PD: OK sir. What is your location?
Me: I just told you. It was the first thing I said.
PD: No sir, you did not.
Me: fark it, then. hang up.

Some of you may say cops will respond to a 911 hang-up. They didn't for this call in skeezy New Orleans in about 1993.
 
2014-07-02 02:22:32 PM  
I saw an actual carjacking once. She was at a stop sign. He walked up, ripped open her door, punched her in the head three times, shoved her to the passenger side, got in, and took off. I called police right away, and got a very "meh" response. I waited as long as I could (about 40 minutes - I was on my lunch) because I was willing to be a witness. The cops never showed. Never contacted me, although 911 had my info.

It was in a REALLY bad neighborhood (the worst in the city) and it was a POS car. So I considered the fact that the two may have had a relationship, and he was practicing a little "home correction" for her daring to use the car or leave the house or something without his permission. Didn't make what I saw any less worth police attention, though.
 
2014-07-02 02:23:22 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: 99.998er: [www.911dispatch.com image 318x251]

Where did the deer come from.


Well, when a mommy deer and a daddy deer love each other very much...
 
2014-07-02 02:36:16 PM  
See what kind of serious business suffers when you misuse 911 services children?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-07-02 02:37:32 PM  
Tonto's Expanding Headband: I've always wondered why 911 operators ask so many irrelevant questions.

I talked to a bunch of women who went to the university medical center. The staff there are very insistent that they must find out if each female is pregnant. I know it's potentially relevant to diagnosis or care in some cases, but it's on their checklist that they must be sure to find out under all circumstances. The insistence gives visitors the impression that finding out if they are pregnant is more important than finding out what is wrong with them, or curing it. That impression may be correct. (Or may have been correct c. 1995-2005; perhaps times have changed.)
 
2014-07-02 02:57:45 PM  
Isn't the correct answer to "does he have a gun" always either "yes", or "I'm not sure, but he might" if you're not comfortable flat out lying?  Cops will get there quicker if they think the suspect is armed.
Same thing with "is the burglar still in the house" etc.

/ Does it really matter if the cops take 38 minutes to show up after the perp is gone though?  Sure it's damned inconvenient, but their promptness probably won't make it any more likely that the guy will get caught.
 
GBB
2014-07-02 03:31:44 PM  

serial_crusher: Isn't the correct answer to "does he have a gun" always either "yes", or "I'm not sure, but he might" if you're not comfortable flat out lying?  Cops will get there quicker if they think the suspect is armed.
Same thing with "is the burglar still in the house" etc.

/ Does it really matter if the cops take 38 minutes to show up after the perp is gone though?  Sure it's damned inconvenient, but their promptness probably won't make it any more likely that the guy will get caught.


And then people wonder why cops kick down doors and "trespass" in people's yards and shoot dogs and claim "the caller said the subject had a gun and fled in this direction".
 
2014-07-02 04:02:21 PM  

namegoeshere: I saw an actual carjacking once. She was at a stop sign. He walked up, ripped open her door, punched her in the head three times, shoved her to the passenger side, got in, and took off.


No, that was a robbery, not a carjacking, since no weapon was used. Unless. . . wait, was this in Georgia?
 
2014-07-02 04:04:39 PM  

Captain Horatio Mindblower: namegoeshere: I saw an actual carjacking once. She was at a stop sign. He walked up, ripped open her door, punched her in the head three times, shoved her to the passenger side, got in, and took off.

No, that was a robbery, not a carjacking, since no weapon was used. Unless. . . wait, was this in Georgia?


Also technically kidnapping, no?
 
2014-07-02 04:28:25 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Captain Horatio Mindblower: namegoeshere: I saw an actual carjacking once. She was at a stop sign. He walked up, ripped open her door, punched her in the head three times, shoved her to the passenger side, got in, and took off.

No, that was a robbery, not a carjacking, since no weapon was used. Unless. . . wait, was this in Georgia?

Also technically kidnapping, no?


Oh, yes. I was so busy being a jackass that I failed to grasp the part about the victim remaining in the car. I wouldn't even bother with the "technically" part; that was a straight-up kidnapping.
 
2014-07-02 04:47:53 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: JesusJuice: ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.

The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.

There is no evidence at all that the operator "wasted time". Depending on their system, she may well have already keyed in vital information to have a unit sent, despite the fact that she was still jabbering.

That, and there is a big difference between simple robbery and robbery with the threat of a weapon. You know, the whole "armed and dangerous" thing, which requires an immediate response. A simple theft of anything -- car, phone, whatever -- is not an "emergency" situation.

Just like there is also a difference between robbery and burglary, even if the end result is some shiat was stolen from your home.


And the value of arguing these distinctions with the caller is....?
 
2014-07-02 05:10:16 PM  

Captain Horatio Mindblower: namegoeshere: I saw an actual carjacking once. She was at a stop sign. He walked up, ripped open her door, punched her in the head three times, shoved her to the passenger side, got in, and took off.

No, that was a robbery, not a carjacking, since no weapon was used. Unless. . . wait, was this in Georgia?


Not in Georgia. I don't know if the guy's big, meaty fists count in NY - they should. And yeah, it probably was a kidnapping, too. Not that the cops seemed to care.
 
2014-07-02 05:44:18 PM  

mizchief: But not to worry. These guys have your best interest in mind and you have no need carry a weapon to defend yourself


All I need to defend MY home and family is an 11-year-old girl with a gun by the pool.

/anyone know where I could get one?
 
2014-07-02 07:18:47 PM  

JesusJuice: ZAZ: In fact it doesn't seem to be a carjacking. By definition you can't commit the crime of carjacking in Georgia if you don't have a weapon. So the operator was half right. On the other hand, taking property from a person by force is robbery. So the operator was half wrong, and should have called it in as a violent crime rather than a simple theft.

The operator was entirely wrong for wasting time arguing about it.


The black man in GA arguing with the operator is lucky to not get arrested and tazed.  Things are looking up, as we are finally getting somewhere.
 
2014-07-02 07:20:47 PM  
My .02:

The call taker at 911 is not the dispatcher. While you are talking to the call taker and being asked questions he/she is typing it in and it appears on the dispatchers screen who then calls the officers on the radio. In an ideal situation the cops are on the way well before the call taker tells you they are. They do this because most folks hang up as soon as they hear that we're coming but we still need as much info about what's going on as we can get so we're ready when we show up. The call taker has a list of questions including the expected stuff about weapons, suspect descriptions, and whether anybody is drunk/ high. They also like to keep you on the line in case something changes while we're still enroute; i.e. somebody at a fistfight suddenly pulls a gun etc.

That said, at least in my area, ANY crime in progress, especially one where someone is being attacked, will get a lights and sirens response. Most, if not all of my dispatchers, would have toned out that call (warning beeps on the radio that tell you to shut up and listen because someone needs help right damn now) as an assault in progress and we'd suss out the appropriate title later.
 
2014-07-02 07:44:24 PM  

Alocksly: My .02:

The call taker at 911 is not the dispatcher. While you are talking to the call taker and being asked questions he/she is typing it in and it appears on the dispatchers screen who then calls the officers on the radio. In an ideal situation the cops are on the way well before the call taker tells you they are. They do this because most folks hang up as soon as they hear that we're coming but we still need as much info about what's going on as we can get so we're ready when we show up. The call taker has a list of questions including the expected stuff about weapons, suspect descriptions, and whether anybody is drunk/ high. They also like to keep you on the line in case something changes while we're still enroute; i.e. somebody at a fistfight suddenly pulls a gun etc.

That said, at least in my area, ANY crime in progress, especially one where someone is being attacked, will get a lights and sirens response. Most, if not all of my dispatchers, would have toned out that call (warning beeps on the radio that tell you to shut up and listen because someone needs help right damn now) as an assault in progress and we'd suss out the appropriate title later.


I don't think that is the case in all areas, as I'm sure that is not the case here.  We can listen in on dispatchers on Facebook, and if a cop ask a question about the call, the dispatcher will ask the caller and get back to the officer.  You don't hear the caller, just the radio traffic between officers and dispatcher, but you can tell the dispatcher is also taking the call.  However, it is annoying to hear the dispatch for a call at 7:15 for a violent fight, and the officer is informed the call was received at 6:22.  That's some quick police work there, Lou.
 
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