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(Tampa Bay Online)   Thanks to all of you overachieving, overly competitive high school students who purposely took classes to pad your GPA: You and your hot-headed parents are causing more and more schools to get rid of class valedictorians and salutatorians   (tbo.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, valedictorians, academic performance, salutatorians, Advanced Placement, Pasco County, school boards, ranking member, GPA  
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5016 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2014 at 11:29 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-07-02 08:28:56 AM  

Dinjiin: Winning the title isn't everything

anything.
 
2014-07-02 08:43:01 AM  

baconbeard: When I went to school, the smart kids were the ones who got a 'B' average while taking physics, math, and chemistry without doing any homework, not the ones who did 30 hours extra a week in English Lit and biology to get 'A's'


I was one of those kids. I absolutely refused to do homework if it would drop my overall grade for the class anything less than a full letter. A decade later and I realize how farking stupid it really was. Intelligence means nothing if you don't know how to do a hard days work, to struggle and overcome, or to drone away for hours one end to get results. And when I finally became part of society I got one hell of a reality check. It's funny how I would have had it easier if I had a harder time in classes and actually had to work at it. 

There you have it kids, do your homework.
 
2014-07-02 09:12:42 AM  

420Gabriel: baconbeard: When I went to school, the smart kids were the ones who got a 'B' average while taking physics, math, and chemistry without doing any homework, not the ones who did 30 hours extra a week in English Lit and biology to get 'A's'

I was the guy acing the tests and having people cheat off me, even though I did no homework and no studying and was high.

Colleges should base entry more on intelligence than on knowledge. Make an IQ minimum, not a gpa minimum. Our colleges are filled with average to below average intelligence kids who had parents that pushed them really hard.


Yup, same here - C+ for each class on every report card 'cause I never did homework.  Lowest test grade was a 90....

Same sorta happened with my AS degree - classmates would study for hours, I slept thru classes and still made As on my projects and exams.
 
2014-07-02 09:17:35 AM  
FTA: "Students earn those designations based on weighted grade-point average. For cum laude, the GPA is 3.2 to 3.7999; for magna cum laude, it's 3.8 to 4.1999; and for summa cum laude, it's 4.2 or higher."

What's the farking problem with those designations?
 
2014-07-02 09:26:01 AM  
 Students earn those designations based on weighted grade-point average. For cum laude, the GPA is 3.2 to 3.7999; for magna cum laude, it's 3.8 to 4.1999; and for summa cum laude, it's 4.2 or higher.

i think i found the problem right there. Stop weighting averages so grades go above 4.0.

There are not a lot of things the NYC school system does well, but grading is one of them.

First, grades/report cards are given on the 100-scale... so everything from a small quiz to a final exam, to your class grade, is a straight mathematical formula. none of this "well, both a 91 and a 94 can be an A-" crap.

Any extra credit is averaged in to your class grade, not added on top (like the catholic schools would do in my area).

Finally, there was no weighting of grades. Dunce-math was the same grade as AP, but AP put you in double jeopardy, since if you took AP class, it was over two periods, and your grade for that class got put down twice (once for each session), so if you fark up, you fark up double.

Nobody ever gets a perfect 100 when they graduate, because there is no place to hide the bodies, as it were. My Valedictorian had something like a 96.5 average. I finished 3rd, with a 95.8 or something like that. This was out of a class of nearly 700.

Granted, a lot of my competition at a NYC public school was fresh off the boat and home room was the first time these sagages saw electric light, but those at the top (me, who was referred to as the "token blond" by my AP advisor, and like 50 asian kids) earned it.
 
2014-07-02 09:42:00 AM  
NetOwl:

My school had a better system.... Essentially, the best students all took the same courses, the second tier took classes together, and so on.

Yes, let's encourage all the smart kids to take exactly the same courses, rather than taking courses they might actually be interested in. Let's run our schools as close to a factory as possible, and let's, oh let's please only reward students for shutting down independent thought and personal fascination.

/yes, product of THAT kind of thinking
//spent years wondering "wth do I do now?"
///fark American education and the parents that farked it.
 
2014-07-02 09:43:10 AM  
My school thumbed its nose at the whole process. They didn't have a valedictorian. They didn't have class rankings. They used a four point GPA with bonuses for honors and AP courses, but they never calculated it or used it for anything unless a college asked, and even then they just told them the formula, not the result. I'm not sure why they did this, but if I had to guess it was because they got sick of dealing with overcompetitive students and parents.
 
2014-07-02 09:45:54 AM  
They really need to go back to the 4.0 point system.   In Florida it's common for advanced classes to have cumulative GPA modifiers where the person gets an extra 0.2 or similar per class which gets added to their overall average, which is complete crap.   Then again, it all is irrelevant.  Once you take your first college course, your high school experience doesn't mean squat.

420Gabriel: baconbeard: When I went to school, the smart kids were the ones who got a 'B' average while taking physics, math, and chemistry without doing any homework, not the ones who did 30 hours extra a week in English Lit and biology to get 'A's'


Indeed...work smarter, not harder.  I think there were only two courses in my pre-med college program which I actually studied for.  Sometimes it also made more sense to take a more difficult/honors course, as the amount of busywork decreased dramatically.

School also need to teach how to study.  I arrived in college without any clue as to how to study. I'd perfected the art of avoiding schoolwork, but for straight read & regurgitate courses this doesn't always work.  Did I get the top grades?  No, but A's/B's are good enough...and more importantly, I learned how to apply rather than just regurgitate the information.   Do you want a Dr who knows everything from memory, or a Dr who actually understands the interaction of the various systems and processes and can extrapolate an answer from that?  Academia fawns over the former, but I'd want the latter overseeing my care.  Sadly, many MDs are book-learned and have no practical understanding of the body.  Scary actually.
 
2014-07-02 10:07:09 AM  
420Gabriel:


Colleges should base entry more on intelligence than on knowledge.

Good schools already do.  The SAT and ACT are highly correlated with IQ.

Make an IQ minimum, not a gpa minimum.  Our colleges are filled with average to below average intelligence kids who had parents that pushed them really hard.

Terrible idea.  A really smart person that is world class lazy is farking worthless.  For 99% of the professions out there, even the more difficult ones, a highly motivated person of average or modeslty above average intelligence will be more successful than some lazy genius (e.g. engineer, computer scientist, doctor).  Only in the extremely intellectual arenas (e.g. research) would I say natural cognitive ability is as prized as work ethic, but even then, its close.
 
2014-07-02 10:11:21 AM  

BuckTurgidson: maram500: Bullseyed: If you didn't take STEM ap classes, you shouldn't be eligible for any class ranking.

We f***ing get it already. STEM is great. STEM is the only thing anyone ever needs.

You know what else we need? People that can understand how STEM has evolved (history). How STEM has affected people on the macro (sociology) and micro (psychology) levels. How STEM applies to governments (political science). And on and f***ing on.

STEM is great if the only thing you want are factory drones.

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


38.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-07-02 10:14:06 AM  

Pumpernickel bread: A really smart person that is world class lazy is farking worthless


You're right. I have an IQ of 160 and I'm a total loser.
 
2014-07-02 10:42:39 AM  
Because if the president has taught us anything: if you aim to do nothing with your life, don't worry, those who are productive will be forced to serve you.
 
2014-07-02 11:01:09 AM  

Best Princess Celestia: Because if the president has taught us anything: if you aim to do nothing with your life, don't worry, those who are productive will be forced to serve you.


Weak.
 
2014-07-02 11:13:01 AM  

Boo_Guy: Active introvert: It's because of people like this that we can't have nice things. Schools don't want to deal with the whinny parents because their little precious didn't win. Guess what people, you can't win everything. So now the schools are like "Fark it, no one will win."

The Valedictorian from my graduation class went to UCLA. She had a big write up in our local newspaper about how she was going to become a neuro surgeon . within a year, she had dropped out because it was too hard. Her little piece of paper saying she was valedictorian did nothing for her.

Sounds like she burned out from trying to live up to expectations.  I hope she took some time off and then went back for something she could do,  that she actually wanted to do.

This is why in sports they're usually afraid to throw the new super kid right into the big leagues,  because sometimes it ruins them and they're never really any good again,  the potential gets crushed.


Stop giving mediocre kids the benefit of the doubt.  Highschool is easy, she just sucked at live.

This country is making me hate personal rights.
 
2014-07-02 11:58:03 AM  
Article: "For cum laude, the GPA is 3.2 to 3.7999; for magna cum laude, it's 3.8 to 4.1999; and for summa cum laude, it's 4.2 or higher. "

What GPA system are they using that you can have a GPA of 4.2 or higher? When I was in school, a GPA of 4.0 was the highest you could get, and your percentage grade had to be 95% or higher to get a 4.0 in a class.
 
2014-07-02 12:06:15 PM  

chitownmike: You don't sound bitter, at all


Towards my High School?  I am bitter.  It was, bar-none, the worst time of my life.  I have no desire to go back or see any of those people.  Once got out of that area, my life went from contemplating suicide and heavy drug use to being happy, having friends, and prospering.  Small-town, racist, hicks.

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: abmoraz: "Joey brushed his teeth!  Give him a framed plaque!"

I don't know if the dental hygiene pun was intentional or not, but bravo, sir or madam.


Yeah, I noticed it during the preview.  I had the "give him a plaque" on one of the other examples and decided to switch them :)  I figured my rant was dark enough.  Needed to slip a little subtle humor in to keep it from being too over the top.
 
2014-07-02 12:11:08 PM  

Loreweaver: Article: "For cum laude, the GPA is 3.2 to 3.7999; for magna cum laude, it's 3.8 to 4.1999; and for summa cum laude, it's 4.2 or higher. "

What GPA system are they using that you can have a GPA of 4.2 or higher? When I was in school, a GPA of 4.0 was the highest you could get, and your percentage grade had to be 95% or higher to get a 4.0 in a class.


When I was in HS (20 years ago), all classes were on a 4 point scale:
A = 4.0
A- = 3.667
B+ = 3.333
B = 3.0
...
D- = 0.333
F = 0.0

But, AP courses were on a 5 point scale, to signify that they were "harder".  They went from A=5.0 to F=1.0.  So if you got As (or A-s or B+s) in an AP course, you could get higher than a 4.0.  We also used "visual grading" histograms, which meant that you never knew where the lines were gonna be drawn between the grades.  90-80-70-60% was used as a rough guideline, but not as a direct grading scale.
 
2014-07-02 01:15:21 PM  
When one's life isn't going to peak in high school, one doesn't care about anything pertaining to high school. Except getting laid, of course.
 
2014-07-02 01:39:08 PM  
abmoraz:
When I was in HS (20 years ago), all classes were on a 4 point scale:
A = 4.0
A- = 3.667
B+ = 3.333
B = 3.0
...
D- = 0.333
F = 0.0

But, AP courses were on a 5 point scale, to signify that they were "harder".  They went from A=5.0 to F=1.0.  So if you got As (or A-s or B+s) in an AP course, you could get higher than a 4.0.  We also used "visual grading" histograms, which meant that you never knew where the lines were gonna be drawn between the grades.  90-80-70-60% was used as a rough guideline, but not as a direct grading scale.


At my school, AP courses were on a 4-point scale, but your letter grade for the class was increased by a specified amount before being converted to GPA. Thus, a B- would become a B+, but a failing grade was still a failing grade, and your final grade could not exceed 4.0.

Granted, I was only able to take one AP class total during high school. Most were cancelled because they could not get more than 2 or 3 students to sign up. Come to think of it, my school sucked when it came academic achievement. All regular classes were graded on a curve, based on the highest score in the class. Which, of course, made me the target of much hatred.
 
2014-07-02 03:49:32 PM  
Competitive high schools?  When I was in high school in Toronto, they literally said "who wants to be valedictorian", and then put those names in a hat and pulled one at random.  About 50% of the kids simply did not give a shiat about school, 40% cared enough to try to get passing grades, and maybe 10% did every assignment on time, joined every club, made friends with every teacher, and actually enjoyed school.
 
2014-07-02 03:50:58 PM  
Also, could one of you americans please explain to me wtf a GPA is?  Here in Canada, you have to have an average of 80 or higher to get in to most universities.  But when I heard some american TV shows talking about a "4.0 grade point average", I had no idea what they were talking about.
 
2014-07-02 04:13:05 PM  

moeburn: Also, could one of you americans please explain to me wtf a GPA is?  Here in Canada, you have to have an average of 80 or higher to get in to most universities.  But when I heard some american TV shows talking about a "4.0 grade point average", I had no idea what they were talking about.


It's grade point average. A=4, B=3...and so forth. Your GPA is the average of all your grades in all the classes you've taken. So a GPA of 4.0 means you got all As. Then there's AP classes, which I took all of them, where an A=5.

Yes I did graduate with a 2.0
 
2014-07-02 04:17:32 PM  
It's called weighting classes and any school that still tracks class rank should do it.
 
2014-07-02 04:34:23 PM  

moeburn: Also, could one of you americans please explain to me wtf a GPA is?  Here in Canada, you have to have an average of 80 or higher to get in to most universities.  But when I heard some american TV shows talking about a "4.0 grade point average", I had no idea what they were talking about.


You get points for letter grades assigned to a class an A=4, B=3, and so on.  You add up the number of points and divide it by the credit hours and get your GPA.
 
2014-07-02 04:58:50 PM  

biscuitsngravy: My wife gave one of the most cliché-ridden salutatorian addresses in the history of high school commencement ceremonies. Nuke Laloosh-esque platitudes.   When we moved last year, we were cleaning shiat out, and we come across her *typed* speech.  We were in hysterics.

/Wife's class rank:  2 outta 396
//My class rank:  312 outta 396
///CSB


So you're punching above your weight?
 
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