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(Washington Post)   Supreme Court decides that women who want abortions have already demonstrated they don't mind being groped, does away with protest buffer zones around clinics   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: News, abortion clinic, colorado law, Dr. George Tiller, Chief Justice John Roberts, Planned Parenthood, Justice Antonin Scalia, First Amendment  
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5876 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2014 at 12:23 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-26 10:54:03 AM  
Wow.  Really mixed feelings on this one, whichever way it went.  Real fuzzy line here between free speech and harassment.
 
2014-06-26 10:59:57 AM  
Time to pepper spray a bunch of religious idiots.
 
2014-06-26 11:04:16 AM  
Great, who's got the countdown clock to the next clinic bombing or doctor shooting?
 
2014-06-26 11:04:30 AM  

Blues_X: Time to pepper spray a bunch of religious idiots.

 
2014-06-26 11:08:52 AM  
Things are bad enough as it is..

Some good friends of ours found out in their 4th month of pregnancy that their fetus was horribly deformed, to the point where a full-term delivery would be hazardous to the mother.  The child wasn't even a human, with no central nervous system, and was basically a mass of blood vessels and tissue with some arms and legs sticking out of it.

No doctor in Texas would perform an abortion, so they had to drive to Kansas, and when they were pulling up to the clinic, their car was pelted with dog shiat, rotten vegetables, and about 50 screaming idiots who called her a slut, coont, whore, baby killer, and so on.

YAY MURIKA!!!
 
2014-06-26 11:10:37 AM  
9-0. Interesting.
 
2014-06-26 11:11:50 AM  
It's extremely frustrating that this was a 9-0 decision; even Ginsburg agreed. And this language in particular makes me want to hurl: "Petitioners are not protesters; they seek not merely to express their opposition to abortion, but to engage in personal, caring, consensual conversations with women about various alternatives."

That said, the decision is very narrow, thank God. The Court says that the buffer zone laws are content and viewpoint neutral, and essentially struck down this one for being overbroad since it blocked anti-abortion protesters (sorry Roberts, they  are protesters) from standing on public sidewalks. The Court also left open MA just adopting the Federal buffer zone law, which is more narrow.

But slightly more galling is the Court's seeming view that the bad days of anti-abortion protests in the 90s are over, and therefore this law is unnecessary. Well yes, they are over in some ways,  and laws like these contributed to that. It's the same frustrating view Roberts had towards the Voting Rights Act in  Shelby County v. Holder; "Sure, we needed that law at some point, but I don't think you need it anymore, so I'm going to go ahead and strike it down." While this decision is much, much more narrow than  Shelby County, it has the same "I don't care about history" attitude.
 
2014-06-26 11:17:25 AM  

Rincewind53: But slightly more galling is the Court's seeming view that the bad days of anti-abortion protests in the 90s are over, and therefore this law is unnecessary. Well yes, they are over in some ways,  and laws like these contributed to that. It's the same frustrating view Roberts had towards the Voting Rights Act in  Shelby County v. Holder; "Sure, we needed that law at some point, but I don't think you need it anymore, so I'm going to go ahead and strike it down." While this decision is much, much more narrow than  Shelby County, it has the same "I don't care about history" attitude.


And the fact that in many locations there just aren't any abortion providers left to protest as various state laws have shut them down.  Ta da!  Problem with abortion protesters solved!
 
2014-06-26 11:18:20 AM  

markie_farkie: Things are bad enough as it is..

Some good friends of ours found out in their 4th month of pregnancy that their fetus was horribly deformed, to the point where a full-term delivery would be hazardous to the mother.  The child wasn't even a human, with no central nervous system, and was basically a mass of blood vessels and tissue with some arms and legs sticking out of it.

No doctor in Texas would perform an abortion, so they had to drive to Kansas, and when they were pulling up to the clinic, their car was pelted with dog shiat, rotten vegetables, and about 50 screaming idiots who called her a slut, coont, whore, baby killer, and so on.

YAY MURIKA!!!


I'm sorry she went through that. I got yelled at (nobody threw things) for going into a Planned Parenthood and all I was doing was having a lost IUD removed.
 
2014-06-26 11:21:10 AM  

markie_farkie: Some good friends of ours found out in their 4th month of pregnancy that their fetus was horribly deformed, to the point where a full-term delivery would be hazardous to the mother. The child wasn't even a human, with no central nervous system, and was basically a mass of blood vessels and tissue with some arms and legs sticking out of it.


treasure.diylol.com

/Sorry about your friend
 
2014-06-26 11:24:21 AM  

SundaesChild: I'm sorry she went through that. I got yelled at (nobody threw things) for going into a Planned Parenthood and all I was doing was having a lost IUD removed.


You mean having your BABY KILLER reinstalled
 
2014-06-26 11:27:22 AM  

enry: Rincewind53: But slightly more galling is the Court's seeming view that the bad days of anti-abortion protests in the 90s are over, and therefore this law is unnecessary. Well yes, they are over in some ways,  and laws like these contributed to that. It's the same frustrating view Roberts had towards the Voting Rights Act in  Shelby County v. Holder; "Sure, we needed that law at some point, but I don't think you need it anymore, so I'm going to go ahead and strike it down." While this decision is much, much more narrow than  Shelby County, it has the same "I don't care about history" attitude.

And the fact that in many locations there just aren't any abortion providers left to protest as various state laws have shut them down.  Ta da!  Problem with abortion protesters solved!


Ugh, exactly. Even Ginsburg signed on to this. I wish she'd at least have written a concurrence telling Roberts to shove his "no longer a problem" opinion up his ass.
 
2014-06-26 11:28:43 AM  

kronicfeld: SundaesChild: I'm sorry she went through that. I got yelled at (nobody threw things) for going into a Planned Parenthood and all I was doing was having a lost IUD removed.

You mean having your BABY KILLER reinstalled


No, removed.
 
2014-06-26 11:29:30 AM  

SundaesChild: kronicfeld: SundaesChild: I'm sorry she went through that. I got yelled at (nobody threw things) for going into a Planned Parenthood and all I was doing was having a lost IUD removed.

You mean having your BABY KILLER reinstalled

No, removed.


Like anyone believes your cover story.
 
2014-06-26 11:31:37 AM  
I'm not too up on these things, but didn't "protest zones" far from various events become the norm during the Iraq war? If so doesn't that mean all those journalists and protesters could sue the federal government for violating their free speech?

But hey, since it's only a murderer, it's okay to harass them.
 
2014-06-26 11:32:24 AM  

Gig103: I'm not too up on these things, but didn't "protest zones" far from various events become the norm during the Iraq war? If so doesn't that mean all those journalists and protesters could sue the federal government for violating their free speech?

But hey, since it's only a murderer, it's okay to harass them.


Those are unrelated.
 
2014-06-26 11:49:54 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
Free speech zone at last RNC...
I suppose we will be getting rid of these now?
 
2014-06-26 11:59:53 AM  
Now a better test of stand your ground laws may be heard by a court. If a person does not have a duty to retreat and only their personal feeling of being threatened, it could be interesting. The Antisocietal anti-abortion groups are willing to kill people  to stop a medical procedure, the women going into the clinics have a decent chance of experiencing mental anguish and if guns are thrown into the mix it has the making of a nationaly televised trial.
 
2014-06-26 12:14:36 PM  

nekom: Wow.  Really mixed feelings on this one, whichever way it went.  Real fuzzy line here between free speech and harassment.


35 feet doesn't change the freedom to speak.
 
2014-06-26 12:24:51 PM  

IgG4: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x165]
Free speech zone at last RNC...
I suppose we will be getting rid of these now?


I honestly have no idea how free speech zones are even vaguely legal.
 
2014-06-26 12:25:38 PM  
Get ready to play red rover to get into health clinics, ladies.
 
2014-06-26 12:25:38 PM  
The Supreme Court themselves have a 100-foot buffer zone lol
 
2014-06-26 12:27:20 PM  
Wasn't there a similar ruling about the laws targeting the Westboro Baptists?
 
2014-06-26 12:27:32 PM  

eurotrader: Now a better test of stand your ground laws may be heard by a court. If a person does not have a duty to retreat and only their personal feeling of being threatened, it could be interesting.


In all states with such statutes, a "threat" must be evident to a reasonable person for deadly force to be a legally justified response.
 
2014-06-26 12:28:19 PM  
You know what would be fantastic?  If the lack of buffer zones caused severe stress or perhaps a surging mob-based knockdown of a pregnant woman, resulting in a miscarriage of her 'to be aborted' baby.  Bonus points if the protest group was a nationally recognized one...
 
2014-06-26 12:29:13 PM  
Wow the Supreme Court has been busy lately... is the annual budget coming and they have to make sure everything is spent?
 
2014-06-26 12:29:16 PM  

eurotrader: Now a better test of stand your ground laws may be heard by a court. If a person does not have a duty to retreat and only their personal feeling of being threatened, it could be interesting. The Antisocietal anti-abortion groups are willing to kill people  to stop a medical procedure, the women going into the clinics have a decent chance of experiencing mental anguish and if guns are thrown into the mix it has the making of a nationaly televised trial.


This is what I am thinking.  It will be interesting to see, in our gun fetish society, how people respond to an event where someone who is seeking an abortion shoots a protester in self-defense.
 
2014-06-26 12:29:28 PM  

markie_farkie: Things are bad enough as it is..

Some good friends of ours found out in their 4th month of pregnancy that their fetus was horribly deformed, to the point where a full-term delivery would be hazardous to the mother.  The child wasn't even a human, with no central nervous system, and was basically a mass of blood vessels and tissue with some arms and legs sticking out of it.

No doctor in Texas would perform an abortion, so they had to drive to Kansas, and when they were pulling up to the clinic, their car was pelted with dog shiat, rotten vegetables, and about 50 screaming idiots who called her a slut, coont, whore, baby killer, and so on.

YAY MURIKA!!!


Wow, it really is two Americas. While I am not a woman, I have gone with my SO to Planned Parenthood for her to get low cost routine women's healthcare, and it was in a part of town that I frequented, so I saw the building a lot.

Occasionally, there would be one or two people standing quietly in the parking lot with an anti-abortion sign, but they were not bothering anybody, and nobody gave them a second glance. I can't fathom the angry mob you encountered.

Throwing objects at someone is assault. Do the police not disperse these mobs?
 
2014-06-26 12:30:25 PM  
pbs.twimg.com


pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-06-26 12:30:38 PM  
Its one of those bite the bullet, bitter pill rulings.

Maybe it can be used to strike down other free speech zones and the constitutional buffer zone 100 mile limit from our border the feds are fond of.
 
2014-06-26 12:30:56 PM  
Freedom of speech is guaranteed, guarantee of being heard is not.
 
2014-06-26 12:31:05 PM  
So protest zones at G8 and related economic conferences also off the table?
 
2014-06-26 12:31:15 PM  
I kind of hope some expectant mother "stands her ground" when the inevitable harassment starts.
 
2014-06-26 12:31:26 PM  
Meanwhile, at your local political activity:

jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-06-26 12:31:40 PM  
 
2014-06-26 12:31:44 PM  
This is a farking AWFUL ruling. The protesters aren't just harmless busybodies, many actually ASSAULT the women going into these clinics.

Freedom of speech only goes as far as someone else's personal safety. The buffer zones were there to keep people safe. This isn't that hard to figure out.
 
2014-06-26 12:32:44 PM  

DubtodaIll: IgG4: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x165]
Free speech zone at last RNC...
I suppose we will be getting rid of these now?

I honestly have no idea how free speech zones are even vaguely legal.


They are BS, still boggles my mond when I hear the term.
 
2014-06-26 12:32:44 PM  

monoski: So protest zones at G8 and related economic conferences also off the table?


Haha, no. Those are rich people, so they're better than you.
 
2014-06-26 12:32:53 PM  
How about the speech buffer zones at political conventions?  Are those still legal?
 
2014-06-26 12:33:10 PM  

alaric3: nekom: Wow.  Really mixed feelings on this one, whichever way it went.  Real fuzzy line here between free speech and harassment.

35 feet doesn't change the freedom to speak.


It's the implication that's the problem. It says that free speech is fine unless you hold a specific opinion and then your speech can be limited. And as the court pointed out it's not really a safety concern since only one clinic has a problem and even then rarely. A temporary safety issue that would be better dealt with the addition of another cop or two does not justify continual limits on free speech. While I don't agree with the protesters I do agree with the court's decision.
 
2014-06-26 12:33:13 PM  

DubtodaIll: IgG4: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x165]
Free speech zone at last RNC...
I suppose we will be getting rid of these now?

I honestly have no idea how free speech zones are even vaguely legal.


I don't think they should be - but then my views of of the First Amendment are pretty strong, stronger than most people - but the rationale that the political parties use if you mean the zones at the conventions, the RNC and DNC argue that they are hosting private events and therefore have the right to restrict that. I think they even make that argument with a straight face somehow.
 
2014-06-26 12:33:18 PM  

alaric3: nekom: Wow.  Really mixed feelings on this one, whichever way it went.  Real fuzzy line here between free speech and harassment.

35 feet doesn't change the freedom to speak.


No, it doesn't', but I think the unanimous ruling is a clear indication the Justices feel that the state cannot put arbitrary restrictions and conditions on the the right to free speech. They note that authorities have other means to control crowds at protests that are wholly constitutional and effective. Actually, this ruling plays straight into law enforcement's hand. As long as the protestors are 35 feet away, there is little they can do but be morons. But if they start harassing those coming and going or touch them in manner, that's assault and grounds for arrest.
 
2014-06-26 12:34:15 PM  

Rhino_man: many actually ASSAULT the women going into these clinics.


Arrest them and charge them and throw them in jail.

Were they still assaulting women when the buffer zones were in place?
 
2014-06-26 12:34:52 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Wow the Supreme Court has been busy lately... is the annual budget coming and they have to make sure everything is spent?


Umm... USSC rulings always come down in a compressed time frame. They hear arguments for months, then there's silence for months, then there's about 3 weeks of rapid-fire rulings.

This is the way they always do it.
 
2014-06-26 12:34:55 PM  
Honest question: to what extent can the clinic simply say "this is private property so fark off."
 
2014-06-26 12:35:06 PM  

markie_farkie: ... No doctor in Texas would perform an abortion, so they had to drive to Kansas, and when they were pulling up to the clinic, their car was pelted with dog shiat, rotten vegetables, and about 50 screaming idiots who called her a slut, coont, whore, baby killer, and so on ...


Moral of the story: if you're going to drive all the way to another state for a one-time event, do your homework, pick the right place and find out the best time to arrive.

Also, buffer zones should not be necessary to prevent throwing feces or anything else.  There are laws that cover that and those people should be arrested.

/Abortions are for people who haven't figured out how ovulation/contraception/celibacy works
 
2014-06-26 12:35:13 PM  
Could be I'm a soulless male bastard, but I reallllllly don't understand why men have any input or opinion on abortion.
 
2014-06-26 12:35:38 PM  

but whole: markie_farkie: Things are bad enough as it is..

Some good friends of ours found out in their 4th month of pregnancy that their fetus was horribly deformed, to the point where a full-term delivery would be hazardous to the mother.  The child wasn't even a human, with no central nervous system, and was basically a mass of blood vessels and tissue with some arms and legs sticking out of it.

No doctor in Texas would perform an abortion, so they had to drive to Kansas, and when they were pulling up to the clinic, their car was pelted with dog shiat, rotten vegetables, and about 50 screaming idiots who called her a slut, coont, whore, baby killer, and so on.

YAY MURIKA!!!

Wow, it really is two Americas. While I am not a woman, I have gone with my SO to Planned Parenthood for her to get low cost routine women's healthcare, and it was in a part of town that I frequented, so I saw the building a lot.

Occasionally, there would be one or two people standing quietly in the parking lot with an anti-abortion sign, but they were not bothering anybody, and nobody gave them a second glance. I can't fathom the angry mob you encountered.

Throwing objects at someone is assault. Do the police not disperse these mobs?


Also, can't the clinic get the protesters removed on grounds that they are trespassing on private property? That should at least clear the area from the parking lot to the door.
 
2014-06-26 12:36:07 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Some of My Experiences With Clinic Defense and Clinic Escorting


I've read more than enough of these already.

"How can I physically harass people, and still play the victim when the police arrive?" is such an asshole game.
 
2014-06-26 12:36:14 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Wow the Supreme Court has been busy lately... is the annual budget coming and they have to make sure everything is spent?


You know how you can technically file your taxes any time after the end of the year but basically everyone waits until the April deadline?

That's how the Supreme Court works, too.
 
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