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(Bloomberg)   Those moon-beam libs just got California's credit rating downgraded. Let that be a lesson to...oh, it was upgraded? To the highest level in 13 years? Well, BENGHAZI   (bloomberg.com) divider line 72
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2138 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jun 2014 at 8:53 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-06-25 06:31:54 PM  
16 votes:
This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.
2014-06-25 09:26:41 PM  
11 votes:
cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.*

*....but they actually never do.  Like when they elected the last conservative republican, twice, who ballooned the debt.


/Let's stop pretending that what "conservatives" call for but never do is something they deserve credit for.  Liberal Democrats have actually proven they are the most fiscally "conservative".
2014-06-25 09:12:45 PM  
9 votes:
When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.
2014-06-25 09:49:17 PM  
7 votes:

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do


Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.
2014-06-25 09:48:12 PM  
7 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.


...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


Actually they raised taxes...and unlike Texas, they boosted their rating without relying on revenue from being the country's biggest oil producer or gutting the social safety net, ie filling public coffers by taking money from the poorest citizens. Face it, CA is trending upwards because we all but eliminated republican influence.
2014-06-25 08:18:16 PM  
7 votes:

Mitch Taylor's Bro: dr_blasto: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

She had no business running at all. Like Romney, she expected to buy the seat.

Romney's actually pretty good at business, though, isn't he?


I don't know about that. He's certainly good at running private equity and converting credit to profit. I have no idea what his business management skills are. I do know he got a less-than-positive review of his "leadership" of Massachusetts.

General business and private equity are like comparing general practitioners to the people who remove organs: one is a group dedicated to keeping people healthy and alive, the other just take shiat and leave behind a corpse

GW Bush was a businessman.
2014-06-25 07:00:46 PM  
7 votes:

BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.


She had no business running at all. Like Romney, she expected to buy the seat.
2014-06-25 09:24:42 PM  
6 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


..... by raising taxes.

How about that.
2014-06-25 08:27:59 PM  
6 votes:

Mitch Taylor's Bro: dr_blasto: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

She had no business running at all. Like Romney, she expected to buy the seat.

Romney's actually pretty good at business, though, isn't he?


If you rate success by how much money his vampire capital fund can suck out of companies, I suppose he's pretty good.  If you rate success as turning around struggling businesses without screwing over the employees, creating more desirable high paying jobs, and possessing any semblance of ethics, he's not so hot.
2014-06-25 09:55:12 PM  
5 votes:

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.


What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.
2014-06-25 09:52:40 PM  
5 votes:

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do


They deserve the representation they get from elections.

It just so happens that the people of California voted them out and put Democrats in to an almost 2:1 majority.

And the state's situation (fiscal and otherwise) has been improving rapidly ever since.

Crazy, huh?

/Of course, it helps that Brown is able to reign in some of the more extreme members of his own party, too
2014-06-25 09:22:25 PM  
5 votes:

Kibbler: I've been informed by Really Smart Informed Conservatives that California is a financial disaster and is right on the very edge of collapsing, probably taking the entire country down with it.

I've been informed of that for the past 15 years now.

They are generally the same people who inform me that Iran is 15 minutes away from nuking New York.


I can never help but laugh at the San Fran hate.  The Bay Area and NYC are the twin engines of capitalism in this country, but because of a few burnouts in Berkeley, conservatives think it's a socialist hellhole.
2014-06-25 08:40:54 PM  
4 votes:

dr_blasto: I don't know about that. He's certainly good at running private equity and converting credit to profit. I have no idea what his business management skills are. I do know he got a less-than-positive review of his "leadership" of Massachusetts.

General business and private equity are like comparing general practitioners to the people who remove organs: one is a group dedicated to keeping people healthy and alive, the other just take shiat and leave behind a corpse

GW Bush was a businessman.


TuteTibiImperes: If you rate success by how much money his vampire capital fund can suck out of companies, I suppose he's pretty good. If you rate success as turning around struggling businesses without screwing over the employees, creating more desirable high paying jobs, and possessing any semblance of ethics, he's not so hot.


Okay, that all sounds fair.

IMO, Meg Whitman overestimated her role in growing eBay (similar to the way many "day traders" overestimated their investing skills during the dot-com boom), but when things started to flatten out and she was dealing with actual problems at eBay, she decided to cash out. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but thinking she had the ability to run a state besieged by a massive drop in tax revenue, or even a large, legendary tech company that was being read its last rites, was where she fails. Perhaps Romney is the same?
2014-06-26 02:55:54 PM  
3 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


Raising taxes and curbing spending?

I think not. That is what Democrats have been calling for years.

The republicans think cutting taxes means more revenue.
2014-06-26 12:20:24 AM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?

Because he was a Republican, and he ran on "I'm not Gray Davis!" why do you think?


Arnie made Gray Davis look like farking FDR.
2014-06-26 12:14:02 AM  
3 votes:
Yeah... In Michigan it went the other way. Snyder ran his campaign on the "run the state like a business" ideal that has suddenly become so popular with dumb conservatives, and wouldn't you know? Things got worse.

They have been filling potholes with loose gravel because there's no money for actually repairing the roads. Detroit is under the control of an Emergency Financial Dictator who thinks it's "teaching the people a lesson" to shut off all the power without warning during a heat wave, and the movie studios that once were thought to be a great new industry for Michigan have had their tax incentives yanked and are looking elsewhere to set up shop.

Thanks. That "running the state like a business" is working out great. Jerk.
2014-06-26 12:13:33 AM  
3 votes:
There's a reason Jerry Brown carries such a HUGE margin in polling for the upcoming elections...he's a politician that doesn't give a shiat about getting elected, so can actually govern in a way that is honest, logical, and unburdened by kissing ass to the parties.  Props to him...he's a grumpy old coot in person, but he's a damn fine governor.
2014-06-25 10:05:56 PM  
3 votes:

Mrtraveler01: D-Liver: Actually they raised taxes...and unlike Texas, they boosted their rating without relying on revenue from being the country's biggest oil producer or gutting the social safety net

Texans will probably hate to admit it, but oil is still the biggest driver of their growth.


And about 60% of the new jobs are minimum wage McJobs.
2014-06-25 09:59:33 PM  
3 votes:

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.

What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.

My apologies I must be misreading what you wrote. For clarification, were you saying that Republicans should have their voting rights marginalized?


No, not at all. The voters there have marginalized conservatives via a democratic process. When that happened, the state started to turn itself around.

Remaining conservatives should be free to vote as they please, it's just that their ideas will find no purchase there.
2014-06-25 09:41:31 PM  
3 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think it's going to cost at least 10x the projections


If you're going to make a statement like that and want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to show your work. The Big Dig was one of the worst overruns in recent history and was only 2.9x over the original budget in constant dollars. 10x over for a project that has barely started is quite a leap of faith for someone with nothing concrete to show.
2014-06-25 09:31:57 PM  
3 votes:
Wait a second....raising taxes worked?

But I was told that it would result in every job leaving the state!
2014-06-25 09:31:21 PM  
3 votes:

Lunchlady: cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.

..... by raising taxes.

How about that.


And it took a Democrat to do something a Republican promised.  How about that?
2014-06-25 09:23:55 PM  
3 votes:
There was a pretty good article recently about California's economy far outpacing the recovery the rest of the country, in terms of the housing industry, budget surplus, employment, etc.

Sure sounds like Obama and those democrats in CA are destroying EVERYTHING!
2014-06-25 09:09:24 PM  
3 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd be a lot happier if Jerry dropped the high-speed train to Bumf*ck and the Delta SoCal Drinking Straws

/that'd save even more


Not so much. It's a public works project with significant local multiplayer effects. And the BFE start-off makes sense, too, because real estate in the central valley is significantly cheaper and easier to start construction in than the coastal locations. Think about it; which is cheaper and easier to demolish existing buildings and build high-speed tracks in? Fresno county, or downtown San Jose? Which is easier to demolish existing infrastructure and build arterial light rail? Stockton, or San Francisco? Brown is approaching high-speed rail logically.
2014-06-25 09:08:34 PM  
3 votes:
Brown \ Warren 2016!
2014-06-25 09:00:36 PM  
3 votes:
2014-06-26 03:14:31 PM  
2 votes:

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.

What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.

My apologies I must be misreading what you wrote. For clarification, were you saying that Republicans should have their voting rights marginalized?


I don't think anyone is making that claim. What most liberals are saying is that Republican dogma aren't worth the dog-crap they're based on and we're under no obligation to listen to or heed their incessant pointless and irrelevant whining. They voters can vote however they want. The representatives are whoever the electorate choose, and in CA, most of the representatives are of the (D) type. Those with the (R) after their name can do whatever they want, but given their lack of political muscle in Sacramento, the (D) representatives are under no obligation to yield to their stupid rehashed ideas. (NOTE: there has been no fresh ideas from the GOP since ever.)
2014-06-26 03:12:28 PM  
2 votes:

xtech: NO1CURR.

your state is still a shiathole and your residents are fleeing to my state for a better life.

in short, fark off cali farks.


Funny, I just took a week camping in the high Sierra's. While hiking through the alpine meadows under the shining sun, traveling over the passes where the emigrants died trying to reach the golden state, viewing the crystal clear waters of Tahoe, coming back home through the fertile fields of the San Joaquin valley just to see the long and comforting view of the sea shore from my bedroom window in the grandly majestic city of San Francisco between two bridges, I thought to myself wow what a shiathole.

This week I'm going down to the pleasant hellhole that is Santa Barbara to see some friends.
2014-06-26 11:08:30 AM  
2 votes:

LadySusan: rnold talked about blowing up the boxes of government. He even spent tax money gathering expensive people together to think of ideas. Then, he did fark all about it. He did install a cigar smoking tent (since removed) and also a bear statue (still there). Whoo-eee. He also bankrupted many businesses in Sacramento with the 3 day furlough (which didn't actually save any state money) and was unable to create an on-time state budget or balance a budget or really, do anything.

Jerry is actually blowing up the boxes of government and without wasting money. Closed some departments and merged their functions...realignment is a huge change...came up with a rational idea to actually balance the budget by (gasp) raising taxes and cutting spending (rationally). Budgets have been on time and are rational. Some things he's done I'm not in favor of but I can live with them. Not sure the peripheral canal or high speed rail is a good idea but we'll see if he can make it work.


You what changed? Prop 25. It eliminated the 2/3 majority requirement for passing budgets, which the Republican minority used to obstruct any attempt at passing budgets. Arnold, while decently popular with the electorate, never seemed to be truly accepted by the state GOP. Arnie was effectively a lame duck for his entire tenure (not to say he had any grand plans anyway, but it wouldn't have mattered).

When prop 25 passed, the out-sized power of the minority was curtailed, and the state has been on an upward fiscal trajectory since. It's funny how actually attempting to govern produces better results than just shiatting on everything. The national GOP should take note.
2014-06-26 10:32:29 AM  
2 votes:

xtech: NO1CURR.

your state is still a shiathole and your residents are fleeing to my state for a better life.

in short, fark off cali farks.


larvalsubjects.files.wordpress.com
2014-06-26 10:19:22 AM  
2 votes:

xtech: your state is still a shiathole

[Citation Needed]  and your residents are fleeing to my state [Citation Needed] for a better life. [Citation Needed]
2014-06-26 07:07:23 AM  
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Mitch Taylor's Bro: dr_blasto: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

She had no business running at all. Like Romney, she expected to buy the seat.

Romney's actually pretty good at business, though, isn't he?

If you rate success by how much money his vampire capital fund can suck out of companies, I suppose he's pretty good.  If you rate success as turning around struggling businesses without screwing over the employees, creating more desirable high paying jobs, and possessing any semblance of ethics, he's not so hot.


Wifey's company is in the process of getting Bained.  Very successful company, began in 1981, headquartered in our town.  7,500 to 8,000 employees, major employer in town.  For many years it was known as an awesome place to work.  About 10 years ago "activist" shareholders began biatching about company growth.  The business was never "struggling," but was not making profits like it did in earlier years.  This of course, is due to the nature of the type of business it's in, but investors don't want to hear about  R&D cycles, etc...  3 years ago they succeeded in getting the longtime CEO axed.  He was replaced with a Wall Street CEO.  Shortly thereafter, the manufacturing division was outsourced to Asia.  Sales staff was slashed, departments have been merged, the CEO has been shopping a headquarter move to any state that will foot the bill for the move and a promise of a tax incentive.  Wifey has seen the Bain playbook in action.  She's been asked to justify her job.  Despite the fact that her job benefits customers and develops goodwill, her job has been labeled non-essential as it does not directly contribute financially in short term bottom line accounting.  Wifey has about 4 more months before she's out, along with the other 1/3 of the workers to be laid off.  The company's been on a buying binge, acquiring other, similar companies.  With debt.   The end result is that within 2-3 years, this company will be gone, via merge or move.  But not completely gone.  Plans call to leave the senior executives here, because no doubt they don't want to live in some shiathole community with horrid weather in Georgia, Texas or other southern states in the running.  Rumors abound on how much Bain is making for their "services."  For all the Romney cocksuckers out there who want to claim that he's a great businessman, just DIAF.
2014-06-26 06:47:11 AM  
2 votes:

DrPainMD: FTA: "The Moody's upgrade affected $86 billion of debt..."

California's state government has 132.6 billion in debt. Add projected unfunded liabilities and it looks like it's over a trillion. With a population of 38 million, that's about $3500/$29,000 per person. And don't even think about adding county/local debt (it's in the link).

Glad I don't live in CA anymore.


I find figures estimating everyone's equal share of government debt as useful as figures estimating the total years experience of a company. No, no one owes $3500 or $29000 as a share of state debt, just like no company has 160 years experience just because 4 people have been working there for 40 years each.

And we're glad you don't live here anymore, too.
2014-06-25 11:38:01 PM  
2 votes:
Jerry Brown is the first politician I'm proud I've voted for. Combined with making changes in the CA legislature (so getting certain tax- and budget-related items no longer requires a supermajority) our government actually works again! No more gridlock!
2014-06-25 10:28:16 PM  
2 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


So are you saying that conservatives have been calling for tax increases on the wealthy for years? Or are you saying that you haven't the slightest farking clue about the topic and really enjoy embarrassing yourself by posting from a position of complete ignorance?
2014-06-25 09:33:08 PM  
2 votes:

Aldon: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.*

*....but they actually never do.  Like when they elected the last conservative republican, twice, who ballooned the debt.


/Let's stop pretending that what "conservatives" call for but never do is something they deserve credit for.  Liberal Democrats have actually proven they are the most fiscally "conservative".


I'll go with this:

HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

2014-06-25 09:28:13 PM  
2 votes:

MrSteve007: There was a pretty good article recently about California's economy far outpacing the recovery the rest of the country, in terms of the housing industry, budget surplus, employment, etc.

Sure sounds like Obama and those democrats in CA are destroying EVERYTHING!


Naw... we're two notches below Texas, didn't you hear?

/I sincerely hope more people in California will heed that wisdom and strike out for the golden shores of Texas, post haste
2014-06-25 09:07:29 PM  
2 votes:

BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.


This ad?
2014-06-25 08:59:36 PM  
2 votes:

Rwa2play: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

Wow, that really happened?!  YOWZA, that was a grade-A, third degree sick-ass burn.


http://gawker.com/5673732/meg-whitman-loved-california-when-jerry-br ow n-was-governor
2014-06-25 08:59:20 PM  
2 votes:
Hey, speaking of ol' Meggers... how's HP doin' these days?

/yeah... thought so
2014-06-26 03:15:18 PM  
1 votes:
Jerry Brown is the best conservative executive this country has had in decades.
2014-06-26 03:10:19 PM  
1 votes:

Taxbongo: Jragghen: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

They deserve the representation they get from elections.

It just so happens that the people of California voted them out and put Democrats in to an almost 2:1 majority.

And the state's situation (fiscal and otherwise) has been improving rapidly ever since.

Crazy, huh?

/Of course, it helps that Brown is able to reign in some of the more extreme members of his own party, too

Although CA is not a one party state, it has a supermajority that pretty much ensures that one side is marginalized

One party systems dont work. They always fail. Without fresh ideas you stagnate.


Bad party systems don't work. Good party systems, whether it's one or more, work. We in the US have a two-party system where one party is hell-bent on proving that the government does not and cannot work by sabotaging everything the government does. Why should they be involved in governing at all? Let those who can govern do the job.
2014-06-26 03:02:47 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: Kibbler: I've been informed by Really Smart Informed Conservatives that California is a financial disaster and is right on the very edge of collapsing, probably taking the entire country down with it.

I've been informed of that for the past 15 years now.

They are generally the same people who inform me that Iran is 15 minutes away from nuking New York.

I can never help but laugh at the San Fran hate.  The Bay Area and NYC are the twin engines of capitalism in this country, but because of a few burnouts in Berkeley, conservatives think it's a socialist hellhole.


Really. Outside of SF Bay Area and NYC, maybe one can claim Chicago as the major drivers of US economic growth. Digging holes in the ground for oil is not innovation, Texas.
2014-06-26 01:21:04 PM  
1 votes:

Taxbongo: One party systems dont work. They always fail. Without fresh ideas you stagnate.


You heard it here first, folks. The Republican Party is the Party of Fresh Ideas! They're like Subway in Party form! The Will Smith of political parties, that's the GOP.

shut up.
2014-06-26 11:35:17 AM  
1 votes:
I love this:

GOP: "Cut taxes and gut social spending to fix all issues"
GOP: does nothing, obstructs any attempt to improve things
Dem: win complete control of the government, increase taxes and cut spending without gutting social programs resulting in a strong fiscal postion
GOP: "you can thank us now as we deserve thecredit for this recovery"

Also, do people really think that these ratings are only determined by looking at the short term? The raised credit rating certainly indicates that these groups believe the situation is better for the long term.
2014-06-26 11:28:15 AM  
1 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


Wat?

His plan is working because we've broken the Conservative millstone around our necks blocking tax increases to pay for mandated spending by ballot initiatives approved by the electorate. If that feedback lop of hire taxes to pay for spending was in place earlier, we wouldn't have had a problem.
2014-06-26 09:48:53 AM  
1 votes:

D-Liver: cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.


...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.

Actually they raised taxes...and unlike Texas, they boosted their rating without relying on revenue from being the country's biggest oil producer or gutting the social safety net, ie filling public coffers by taking money from the poorest citizens. Face it, CA is trending upwards because we all but eliminated republican influence.


Yep - and unlike Texas, California managed to do all of this while having a developed-world level of services and a proper social safety net. You know, Texas, I'm sure Somalia also isn't running a deficit; it's easy not to go in the hole when you don't spend anything in the first place. Low-tax, low-service, low-regulation states (in most cases this coincides with "The South") rank the lowest in almost every quality-of-life measure. Plus, Texas is full of reality-denying fundamentalist wackos who have so much power they run the place. It's pretty rich for a lunatic craphole like Texas to be gloating over being better than California, but by all means carry on.
2014-06-26 09:43:06 AM  
1 votes:

The Why Not Guy: This has been an interesting exchange. A liberal Democrat achieves something pretty much everyone agrees is a good thing.

Poster A: well, it's what Republicans have been demanding for years.
Poster B: so why didn't the previous Republican governor do it?
Poster C: excuses
Poster D: more excuses

So the liberal Democrat who actually got it done gets no props, while the Republican who didn't even try gets excuses.


And not only that, but as has already been pointed out, poster A's premise is completely false; the Republicans haven't been demanding tax increases for years.
2014-06-26 09:35:30 AM  
1 votes:

BlueDWarrior: That, and a lot of outsiders are only of middling intelligence in general, so they can get easily taken by lobbyists and other entrenched interests.


This has been an interesting exchange. A liberal Democrat achieves something pretty much everyone agrees is a good thing.

Poster A: well, it's what Republicans have been demanding for years.
Poster B: so why didn't the previous Republican governor do it?
Poster C: excuses
Poster D: more excuses

So the liberal Democrat who actually got it done gets no props, while the Republican who didn't even try gets excuses.
2014-06-26 06:32:52 AM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: FTA: "The Moody's upgrade affected $86 billion of debt..."

California's state government has 132.6 billion in debt. Add projected unfunded liabilities and it looks like it's over a trillion. With a population of 38 million, that's about $3500/$29,000 per person. And don't even think about adding county/local debt (it's in the link).

Glad I don't live in CA anymore.


One of the minor side benefits of the superior way we run our state is that it runs a lot of ignorant creeps off.
Not enough - there are still infestations of them in the sticks, where there is no education or culture. But by and large, a lot of crappy people and institutions have bugged out of California lately, and it's a real blessing.
We don't need any more retarded hicks here.
2014-06-26 03:09:03 AM  
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: log_jammin: cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.

so when people like you say something stupid like this, then see all the replies pointing out just how stupid you comment was, and why, do you feel embarrassed? even a tiny bit?

Why should anyone be embarrassed about what a bunch of strangers on the internet think? You really take this shiat seriously? Lol, wow....


Then you surely won't mind when I point out that that was a stupid thing to say, and that you're stupid for saying it.
2014-06-26 03:02:36 AM  
1 votes:

IMDWalrus: Nix Nightbird: They have been filling potholes with loose gravel because there's no money for actually repairing the roads.

...or because you can't repair the roads with anything else in the middle of winter?  Now that it's warmed up they're doing more permanent patches.  The state needs more money for repairs, but what you said isn't relevant.


No... this isn't a "middle of winter" thing. They just did the loose gravel LAST WEEK. During the spring they were doing tar & gravel, and in some places jst plain dirt (yeah, that worked well). During the winter they did nothing at all. There was a pothole in front of my place that was about the size of a small car, and they left it for almost three months.

I haven't seen any decent permanent patches, and I see a lot  of roads. My day job involves driving around the eastern side of the state all week. There's not much being done on most of the back roads and residential roads. It's only the highways and expressways that are getting any attention, and even there it's minimal.
2014-06-26 02:52:00 AM  
1 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: ImpendingCynic: Notabunny: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd be a lot happier if Jerry dropped the high-speed train to Bumf*ck and the Delta SoCal Drinking Straws

/that'd save even more

Not so much. It's a public works project with significant local multiplayer effects. And the BFE start-off makes sense, too, because real estate in the central valley is significantly cheaper and easier to start construction in than the coastal locations. Think about it; which is cheaper and easier to demolish existing buildings and build high-speed tracks in? Fresno county, or downtown San Jose?
Except that's not what they're going to do. The right of way already exists in San Jose, because the high speed rail line is going to share the existing tracks with Caltrain, which will soon be electrified. And what's south of there isn't quite so dense that it's impossible to build. There's plenty of lightly-developed land along side US 101.

While I can appreciate the selling point that you can get the fark out of Fresno at nearly 200 mph (and go to .. MERCED?), it's not a viable business model.

I'm as pro-rail as you'll find in California, and I'm opposed to the high speed line, because we can't even get regular rail to not suck yet. If you've ridden the Coast Starlight, you know what I'm talking about.


I just rode that two weeks ago. It was a freaking great time!  And pretty cheap!


The point of the route 99 HSR alignment is, among other reasons, is to make those farm towns into viable bedroom communities for the SF bay and LA basin commuters. And maybe a population shift is what's needed to moderate that Jesus and crystal meth portion of the state.
2014-06-26 01:55:48 AM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Impossible. He raised taxes. I was told the California economy was definitely going to crater after that.


I know.  It's as if conservative economics was a pile of nonsense made up by lunatics.
2014-06-26 01:31:25 AM  
1 votes:
Meanwhile the credit rating of New Jersey has dropped while Gov. Christie (R-eally fat) has been in office.
2014-06-26 12:51:50 AM  
1 votes:

Taxbongo: Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.


Losing elections and concomitant power is not disenfranchisement.
2014-06-26 12:43:12 AM  
1 votes:

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


so when people like you say something stupid like this, then see all the replies pointing out just how stupid you comment was, and why, do you feel embarrassed? even a tiny bit?
2014-06-26 12:34:41 AM  
1 votes:
The issue of illegal immigrants in Arizona and to a degree Texas "Wharrrragarrrrrble", the issue of illegal immigrants in California "Well, how do we deal with this?"....one of those actually works.
2014-06-25 11:28:09 PM  
1 votes:
California needs to get the following things fixed IMO:

1)  Sort out the water issues.  We need high altitude reservoirs and we need to let the bottom of the central valley farms die.  There isn't enough water for farming in Bakersfield.

2)  Clean out the old laws.  We have a bunch of old nanny state laws on the books for no reason.  Start stripping them and replace as many regulations with cash transfers as possible.

3)  Focus on the state's diversity strengths.  We need to get east asian languages being taught in primary schools and we need to run ahead of the Feds on immigration.  Turn the whole state into a sanctuary state.

4)  Rebuild the property tax system.  The local governments need their own strong revenue streams so we can move the fiscal issues out of Sacramento.

5)  Streamline the residential building process.  Housing prices in California are a joke.  Residential needs to easier to build.
2014-06-25 10:51:27 PM  
1 votes:

dookdookdook: It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around


While not the only state with this issue, you have to admit that there is a lot of stupid that California can produce.

After all, Issa was elected.
2014-06-25 10:23:44 PM  
1 votes:
i347.photobucket.com
Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!
2014-06-25 10:19:28 PM  
1 votes:

cirby: enry:
The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.

Which is a shame, since it was originally supposed to be $2.8 billion, and ended up being $15 billion. And once they include interest, it's going to be $22 billion.

That's either 5 times or 7.8 times over - not 2.9.

Which is kinda expensive for a tunnel that has ceilings that fall down (and kill people). And lighting fixtures that all had to be replaced (for another $50 million or so). And the other problems, of course.


Most public works projects go over budget.  However, they create a lot of jobs, and they make the area better when they're complete.

I'm still pissed that Gov. Voldemort threw away the rail money that should have come to FL.  I suppose our loss is California's gain.  With any luck he'll be thrown out on his ass in November.
2014-06-25 10:16:18 PM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

2014-06-25 10:10:18 PM  
1 votes:
enry:
The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.

Which is a shame, since it was originally supposed to be $2.8 billion, and ended up being $15 billion. And once they include interest, it's going to be $22 billion.

That's either 5 times or 7.8 times over - not 2.9.

Which is kinda expensive for a tunnel that has ceilings that fall down (and kill people). And lighting fixtures that all had to be replaced (for another $50 million or so). And the other problems, of course.
2014-06-25 10:01:12 PM  
1 votes:

EngineerAU: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think it's going to cost at least 10x the projections

If you're going to make a statement like that and want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to show your work. The Big Dig was one of the worst overruns in recent history and was only 2.9x over the original budget in constant dollars. 10x over for a project that has barely started is quite a leap of faith for someone with nothing concrete to show.


The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.
2014-06-25 09:47:58 PM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.


They're not conservatives.  No matter how much they say it, nor how loud, it just isn't so.
Kinda' like a lot of the crap they say - but what do you expect from a group that thinks 'reality based' policy is a bad thing?
2014-06-25 09:38:59 PM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.


That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do
2014-06-25 09:19:16 PM  
1 votes:
Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.
2014-06-25 09:06:15 PM  
1 votes:

BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.


Rwa2play: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

Wow, that really happened?!  YOWZA, that was a grade-A, third degree sick-ass burn.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/25/913594/-Meg-Whitman-Admits- Ca lifornians-Should-Vote-for-Jerry-Brown

Not QUITE that. But still. Pretty bad burn.
2014-06-25 09:02:49 PM  
1 votes:
I've been informed by Really Smart Informed Conservatives that California is a financial disaster and is right on the very edge of collapsing, probably taking the entire country down with it.

I've been informed of that for the past 15 years now.

They are generally the same people who inform me that Iran is 15 minutes away from nuking New York.
2014-06-25 08:57:37 PM  
1 votes:

dookdookdook: B...b...but Detroit!


Detroit is actually interesting. The problems there are pretty unique, the efforts by the city to manage their world are a mixed bag, but the sack of shiat foisted on them by the state is definitely not going to help matters.
2014-06-25 08:31:21 PM  
1 votes:
Impossible. He raised taxes. I was told the California economy was definitely going to crater after that.
 
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