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(Bloomberg)   Those moon-beam libs just got California's credit rating downgraded. Let that be a lesson to...oh, it was upgraded? To the highest level in 13 years? Well, BENGHAZI   (bloomberg.com ) divider line
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2151 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jun 2014 at 8:53 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-25 09:52:40 PM  

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do


They deserve the representation they get from elections.

It just so happens that the people of California voted them out and put Democrats in to an almost 2:1 majority.

And the state's situation (fiscal and otherwise) has been improving rapidly ever since.

Crazy, huh?

/Of course, it helps that Brown is able to reign in some of the more extreme members of his own party, too
 
2014-06-25 09:54:23 PM  

dr_blasto: Mitch Taylor's Bro: dr_blasto: BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.

She had no business running at all. Like Romney, she expected to buy the seat.

Romney's actually pretty good at business, though, isn't he?

I don't know about that. He's certainly good at running private equity and converting credit to profit. I have no idea what his business management skills are. I do know he got a less-than-positive review of his "leadership" of Massachusetts.

General business and private equity are like comparing general practitioners to the people who remove organs: one is a group dedicated to keeping people healthy and alive, the other just take shiat and leave behind a corpse

GW Bush was a businessman.


So were Hoover and Harding.
 
2014-06-25 09:55:12 PM  

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.


What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.
 
2014-06-25 09:55:36 PM  

Jragghen: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

They deserve the representation they get from elections.

It just so happens that the people of California voted them out and put Democrats in to an almost 2:1 majority.

And the state's situation (fiscal and otherwise) has been improving rapidly ever since.

Crazy, huh?

/Of course, it helps that Brown is able to reign in some of the more extreme members of his own party, too


Although CA is not a one party state, it has a supermajority that pretty much ensures that one side is marginalized

One party systems dont work. They always fail. Without fresh ideas you stagnate.
 
2014-06-25 09:56:43 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.

What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.


My apologies I must be misreading what you wrote. For clarification, were you saying that Republicans should have their voting rights marginalized?
 
2014-06-25 09:57:06 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Impossible. He raised taxes. I was told the California economy was definitely going to crater after that.


And cutting taxes like Christie gets your state's rating downgraded five times in four years.
 
2014-06-25 09:58:29 PM  

The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?


His celebrity got him In office & his adherence to his conservative ideology got him out.

I don't have anything against the man, he just shouldn't have been governor.

And he was anti tax tax tax.
 
2014-06-25 09:58:39 PM  

Witty_Retort: Dusk-You-n-Me: Impossible. He raised taxes. I was told the California economy was definitely going to crater after that.

And cutting taxes like Christie gets your state's rating downgraded five times in four years.


Financially stable states get better credit? What is this madness?
 
2014-06-25 09:58:50 PM  

Notabunny: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd be a lot happier if Jerry dropped the high-speed train to Bumf*ck and the Delta SoCal Drinking Straws

/that'd save even more

Not so much. It's a public works project with significant local multiplayer effects. And the BFE start-off makes sense, too, because real estate in the central valley is significantly cheaper and easier to start construction in than the coastal locations. Think about it; which is cheaper and easier to demolish existing buildings and build high-speed tracks in? Fresno county, or downtown San Jose?

Except that's not what they're going to do. The right of way already exists in San Jose, because the high speed rail line is going to share the existing tracks with Caltrain, which will soon be electrified. And what's south of there isn't quite so dense that it's impossible to build. There's plenty of lightly-developed land along side US 101.

While I can appreciate the selling point that you can get the fark out of Fresno at nearly 200 mph (and go to .. MERCED?), it's not a viable business model.

I'm as pro-rail as you'll find in California, and I'm opposed to the high speed line, because we can't even get regular rail to not suck yet. If you've ridden the Coast Starlight, you know what I'm talking about.
 
2014-06-25 09:59:33 PM  

Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.

What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.

My apologies I must be misreading what you wrote. For clarification, were you saying that Republicans should have their voting rights marginalized?


No, not at all. The voters there have marginalized conservatives via a democratic process. When that happened, the state started to turn itself around.

Remaining conservatives should be free to vote as they please, it's just that their ideas will find no purchase there.
 
2014-06-25 10:00:03 PM  

D-Liver: Actually they raised taxes...and unlike Texas, they boosted their rating without relying on revenue from being the country's biggest oil producer or gutting the social safety net


Texans will probably hate to admit it, but oil is still the biggest driver of their growth.
 
2014-06-25 10:00:57 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: Taxbongo: HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

That is a very illiberal viewpoint. Conservatives deserve the same amount of representation that we do

Nobody deserves parity in representation. If your ideas suck and your only remaining function is to ruin progress to the point that society has shaken you off like a dog does fleas, you're right where you belong.

Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.

What? No rights have been violated here. They're selling a product people aren't buying.

My apologies I must be misreading what you wrote. For clarification, were you saying that Republicans should have their voting rights marginalized?

No, not at all. The voters there have marginalized conservatives via a democratic process. When that happened, the state started to turn itself around.

Remaining conservatives should be free to vote as they please, it's just that their ideas will find no purchase there.


Ok, that was my mistake. Embarrassing.
 
2014-06-25 10:01:12 PM  

EngineerAU: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think it's going to cost at least 10x the projections

If you're going to make a statement like that and want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to show your work. The Big Dig was one of the worst overruns in recent history and was only 2.9x over the original budget in constant dollars. 10x over for a project that has barely started is quite a leap of faith for someone with nothing concrete to show.


The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.
 
2014-06-25 10:04:07 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Notabunny: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd be a lot happier if Jerry dropped the high-speed train to Bumf*ck and the Delta SoCal Drinking Straws

/that'd save even more

Not so much. It's a public works project with significant local multiplayer effects. And the BFE start-off makes sense, too, because real estate in the central valley is significantly cheaper and easier to start construction in than the coastal locations. Think about it; which is cheaper and easier to demolish existing buildings and build high-speed tracks in? Fresno county, or downtown San Jose?
Except that's not what they're going to do. The right of way already exists in San Jose, because the high speed rail line is going to share the existing tracks with Caltrain, which will soon be electrified. And what's south of there isn't quite so dense that it's impossible to build. There's plenty of lightly-developed land along side US 101.

While I can appreciate the selling point that you can get the fark out of Fresno at nearly 200 mph (and go to .. MERCED?), it's not a viable business model.

I'm as pro-rail as you'll find in California, and I'm opposed to the high speed line, because we can't even get regular rail to not suck yet. If you've ridden the Coast Starlight, you know what I'm talking about.


I LOL'd heartily at your second paragraph.

/wants HS rail
 
2014-06-25 10:05:56 PM  

Mrtraveler01: D-Liver: Actually they raised taxes...and unlike Texas, they boosted their rating without relying on revenue from being the country's biggest oil producer or gutting the social safety net

Texans will probably hate to admit it, but oil is still the biggest driver of their growth.


And about 60% of the new jobs are minimum wage McJobs.
 
2014-06-25 10:10:18 PM  
enry:
The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.

Which is a shame, since it was originally supposed to be $2.8 billion, and ended up being $15 billion. And once they include interest, it's going to be $22 billion.

That's either 5 times or 7.8 times over - not 2.9.

Which is kinda expensive for a tunnel that has ceilings that fall down (and kill people). And lighting fixtures that all had to be replaced (for another $50 million or so). And the other problems, of course.
 
2014-06-25 10:16:18 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: When you marginalize conservatives, society can actually function.

 
2014-06-25 10:19:28 PM  

cirby: enry:
The Big Dig was doing things that had never been done before in this hemisphere in ground that didn't exist a few hundred years ago. Doing so while keeping the city open and being only 2.9x over isn't bad at all.

Which is a shame, since it was originally supposed to be $2.8 billion, and ended up being $15 billion. And once they include interest, it's going to be $22 billion.

That's either 5 times or 7.8 times over - not 2.9.

Which is kinda expensive for a tunnel that has ceilings that fall down (and kill people). And lighting fixtures that all had to be replaced (for another $50 million or so). And the other problems, of course.


Most public works projects go over budget.  However, they create a lot of jobs, and they make the area better when they're complete.

I'm still pissed that Gov. Voldemort threw away the rail money that should have come to FL.  I suppose our loss is California's gain.  With any luck he'll be thrown out on his ass in November.
 
2014-06-25 10:23:44 PM  
i347.photobucket.com
Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!
 
2014-06-25 10:28:16 PM  

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


So are you saying that conservatives have been calling for tax increases on the wealthy for years? Or are you saying that you haven't the slightest farking clue about the topic and really enjoy embarrassing yourself by posting from a position of complete ignorance?
 
2014-06-25 10:35:07 PM  

tinyarena: [i347.photobucket.com image 350x245]
Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!


It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around

img.fark.net

/at least braindead beach skanks aren't trying to mobilize their fellow morons into a national political movement
 
2014-06-25 10:39:36 PM  

dookdookdook:
It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around

/at least braindead beach skanks aren't trying to mobilize their fellow morons into a national political movement


But it would be totes Grand if they did!
I'd vote more often, if you know what I mean, and I think you do
 
2014-06-25 10:42:17 PM  

tinyarena: Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!


Those girls seem nice, to watch rollerskate.
 
2014-06-25 10:49:01 PM  

Isitoveryet: tinyarena: Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!

Those girls seem nice, to watch rollerskate.


Nonono

/Listen to the wisdom of these sages who know what California REALLY is, and what Californians REALLY are
//don't come here
///if you're already here, RUN AWAY!
 
2014-06-25 10:50:13 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I'm still pissed that Gov. Voldemort threw away the rail money that should have come to FL.  I suppose our loss is California's gain.


That was farked up. Everyone voted for it too. Scott is a cock.
 
2014-06-25 10:51:27 PM  

dookdookdook: It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around


While not the only state with this issue, you have to admit that there is a lot of stupid that California can produce.

After all, Issa was elected.
 
2014-06-25 10:56:27 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: dr_blasto: I don't know about that. He's certainly good at running private equity and converting credit to profit. I have no idea what his business management skills are. I do know he got a less-than-positive review of his "leadership" of Massachusetts.

General business and private equity are like comparing general practitioners to the people who remove organs: one is a group dedicated to keeping people healthy and alive, the other just take shiat and leave behind a corpse

GW Bush was a businessman.

TuteTibiImperes: If you rate success by how much money his vampire capital fund can suck out of companies, I suppose he's pretty good. If you rate success as turning around struggling businesses without screwing over the employees, creating more desirable high paying jobs, and possessing any semblance of ethics, he's not so hot.

Okay, that all sounds fair.

IMO, Meg Whitman overestimated her role in growing eBay (similar to the way many "day traders" overestimated their investing skills during the dot-com boom), but when things started to flatten out and she was dealing with actual problems at eBay, she decided to cash out. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but thinking she had the ability to run a state besieged by a massive drop in tax revenue, or even a large, legendary tech company that was being read its last rites, was where she fails. Perhaps Romney is the same?


My boss was her boss 25+ years ago. He's a rigid old bastard. He says she's always been as "worthless as birth control pills at a gay bar".
 
2014-06-25 10:57:02 PM  

fuhfuhfuh: dookdookdook: It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around

While not the only state with this issue, you have to admit that there is a lot of stupid that California can produce.

After all, Issa was elected.


No argument there.

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-06-25 10:58:03 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Texans will probably hate to admit it, but oil is still the biggest driver of their growth.


You know where else is a desert wasteland run by anti-intellectual religious conservatives wearing silly headgear, that only gets paid attention to because it produces oil?
 
2014-06-25 10:59:22 PM  

fuhfuhfuh: dookdookdook: It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around

While not the only state with this issue, you have to admit that there is a lot of stupid that California can produce.

After all, Issa was elected.


Im in that cocksuckers district... its a good mix of left & right & to be honest with you, we don't hear much locally about him. I think voters remorse has set in & hopefully he will have lost the local support with his shenanigans.
 
2014-06-25 11:02:06 PM  

evil saltine: No argument there.


I never get tired of white trash and their misspelled protest signs. They always have that same smug, shiat eating grin on their face too.
 
2014-06-25 11:04:51 PM  

Isitoveryet: fuhfuhfuh: dookdookdook: It's funny because California is the only state with ignorant motherfarkers running around

While not the only state with this issue, you have to admit that there is a lot of stupid that California can produce.

After all, Issa was elected.

Im in that cocksuckers district... its a good mix of left & right & to be honest with you, we don't hear much locally about him. I think voters remorse has set in & hopefully he will have lost the local support with his shenanigans.


Afterthought... those south orange county conservative are farking nuts & plenty of anti Obama bumper stickers, if you catch my drift.

/drift?
/yeah, I guess Californians are crazy.
 
2014-06-25 11:11:10 PM  

Isitoveryet: tinyarena: Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!

Those girls seem nice, to watch rollerskate.


Actually, most of the women I know who look like that have Ph.D.'s
Most of them can kick my teeth down my throat
Several of them could shoot me from long range
And one of them could dissect me

So, I got that going for me
which is nice
 
2014-06-25 11:14:41 PM  
Truly Taxifornia is doomed now.

This is a repeat from every year for the past 30 years.
 
2014-06-25 11:22:48 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Isitoveryet: tinyarena: Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!

Those girls seem nice, to watch rollerskate.

Nonono

/Listen to the wisdom of these sages who know what California REALLY is, and what Californians REALLY are
//don't come here
///if you're already here, RUN AWAY!


img.fark.net
 
2014-06-25 11:25:36 PM  

tinyarena: Isitoveryet: tinyarena: Nice! Caly just had it's credit rating upgrayedd
whodidwhatnow?
nvm, gelato?
Kk!

Those girls seem nice, to watch rollerskate.

Actually, most of the women I know who look like that have Ph.D.'s
Most of them can kick my teeth down my throat
Several of them could shoot me from long range
And one of them could dissect me

So, I got that going for me
which is nice


You live near Westwood, huh? :p
 
2014-06-25 11:26:51 PM  

Cpl.D: Lunchlady: cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.

..... by raising taxes.

How about that.

And it took a Democrat to do something a Republican promised.  How about that?


Arnold talked about blowing up the boxes of government. He even spent tax money gathering expensive people together to think of ideas. Then, he did fark all about it. He did install a cigar smoking tent (since removed) and also a bear statue (still there). Whoo-eee. He also bankrupted many businesses in Sacramento with the 3 day furlough (which didn't actually save any state money) and was unable to create an on-time state budget or balance a budget or really, do anything.

Jerry is actually blowing up the boxes of government and without wasting money. Closed some departments and merged their functions...realignment is a huge change...came up with a rational idea to actually balance the budget by (gasp) raising taxes and cutting spending (rationally). Budgets have been on time and are rational. Some things he's done I'm not in favor of but I can live with them. Not sure the peripheral canal or high speed rail is a good idea but we'll see if he can make it work.
 
2014-06-25 11:28:09 PM  
California needs to get the following things fixed IMO:

1)  Sort out the water issues.  We need high altitude reservoirs and we need to let the bottom of the central valley farms die.  There isn't enough water for farming in Bakersfield.

2)  Clean out the old laws.  We have a bunch of old nanny state laws on the books for no reason.  Start stripping them and replace as many regulations with cash transfers as possible.

3)  Focus on the state's diversity strengths.  We need to get east asian languages being taught in primary schools and we need to run ahead of the Feds on immigration.  Turn the whole state into a sanctuary state.

4)  Rebuild the property tax system.  The local governments need their own strong revenue streams so we can move the fiscal issues out of Sacramento.

5)  Streamline the residential building process.  Housing prices in California are a joke.  Residential needs to easier to build.
 
2014-06-25 11:38:01 PM  
Jerry Brown is the first politician I'm proud I've voted for. Combined with making changes in the CA legislature (so getting certain tax- and budget-related items no longer requires a supermajority) our government actually works again! No more gridlock!
 
2014-06-26 12:13:33 AM  
There's a reason Jerry Brown carries such a HUGE margin in polling for the upcoming elections...he's a politician that doesn't give a shiat about getting elected, so can actually govern in a way that is honest, logical, and unburdened by kissing ass to the parties.  Props to him...he's a grumpy old coot in person, but he's a damn fine governor.
 
2014-06-26 12:14:02 AM  
Yeah... In Michigan it went the other way. Snyder ran his campaign on the "run the state like a business" ideal that has suddenly become so popular with dumb conservatives, and wouldn't you know? Things got worse.

They have been filling potholes with loose gravel because there's no money for actually repairing the roads. Detroit is under the control of an Emergency Financial Dictator who thinks it's "teaching the people a lesson" to shut off all the power without warning during a heat wave, and the movie studios that once were thought to be a great new industry for Michigan have had their tax incentives yanked and are looking elsewhere to set up shop.

Thanks. That "running the state like a business" is working out great. Jerk.
 
2014-06-26 12:18:04 AM  

The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?


Because he was a Republican, and he ran on "I'm not Gray Davis!" why do you think?
 
2014-06-26 12:20:24 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?

Because he was a Republican, and he ran on "I'm not Gray Davis!" why do you think?


Arnie made Gray Davis look like farking FDR.
 
2014-06-26 12:34:41 AM  
The issue of illegal immigrants in Arizona and to a degree Texas "Wharrrragarrrrrble", the issue of illegal immigrants in California "Well, how do we deal with this?"....one of those actually works.
 
2014-06-26 12:37:50 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?

Because he was a Republican, and he ran on "I'm not Gray Davis!" why do you think?


Don't blame me

/I voted for Gary Coleman
 
2014-06-26 12:42:11 AM  

BKITU: This reminds me of the debate between Brown and Whitman during the 2010 campaign.

Whitman tried scoring "fiscal conservative" points by saying something like, "California used to be an economic powerhouse. Don't you want to return to the days of budget surpluses instead of year-over-year deficits?"

Brown replied, "You know who the governor was during those days? I WAS."

I need to find video of it to get the quotes just right. It's easily the sickest burn in a political debate since Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line. IIRC, Whitman was neck-and-neck in the polls until that line, then never recovered after it.


Oh damn, I need to see that.  Wow.
 
2014-06-26 12:43:12 AM  

cirby: Gee, that means California is only three notches below Texas, instead of five.

...and they got that rating increase because California's been working at decreasing their public debt instead of just piling it on.

So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

How about that.


so when people like you say something stupid like this, then see all the replies pointing out just how stupid you comment was, and why, do you feel embarrassed? even a tiny bit?
 
2014-06-26 12:43:25 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The Why Not Guy: cirby: So California got their increase by... doing what conservatives have been calling for for years.

So why didn't Arnie do it? Too busy farking the maid?

Because he was a Republican, and he ran on "I'm not Gray Davis!" why do you think?


He was too busy fighting his own party in the end and still couldn't break the stupid 2/3 majority rule to pass a budget.  Arnold was a moderate and the state GOP is full of intractable wingnuts.  He was also very inexperienced and naive when it came to politics.  Davis is an old veteran who was considered more fiscally conservative than Reagan back when he was governor.  That's the problem about electing non-politicians into government; they usually have no farking clue about what they're doing.
 
2014-06-26 12:50:25 AM  

Nix Nightbird: They have been filling potholes with loose gravel because there's no money for actually repairing the roads.


...or because you can't repair the roads with anything else in the middle of winter?  Now that it's warmed up they're doing more permanent patches.  The state needs more money for repairs, but what you said isn't relevant.

Nix Nightbird: and the movie studios that once were thought to be a great new industry for Michigan have had their tax incentives yanked and are looking elsewhere to set up shop.


I'm still mad about that.  In one incredibly stupid move, they killed what was shaping up to be a new industry in a state that desperately needs one.
 
2014-06-26 12:51:50 AM  

Taxbongo: Disenfranchising peoples rights is wrong. Its wrong when they do it and its wrong when we do it.


Losing elections and concomitant power is not disenfranchisement.
 
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