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(Anchorage Daily News)   Got any spare change? I need to pay this $200 panhandling fine   (adn.com) divider line 54
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2364 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2014 at 2:53 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-25 02:09:13 PM
Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?
 
2014-06-25 02:18:53 PM

timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?


Perhaps, but they also gave us Sarah Palin so they assume they can get away with anything.
 
2014-06-25 02:57:25 PM
Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.
 
2014-06-25 02:57:47 PM
That is like fighting fire with fire or
Handing an anvil to a drowning victim or buying an alcoholic a life time supply of booze or sending more troops to Iraq.
 
2014-06-25 02:59:46 PM
In Memphis a few weeks ago I was hit up for money about 5 feet in front of a 'Don't give money to panhandlers' sign.
 
2014-06-25 03:00:01 PM

timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?


Depends.  The article notes that they've banned "aggressive" panhandling where the beggars are actively soliciting, but that "passive" panhandling where they sit to the side with a sign is still allowed.  Given the number of munis with bans against aggressive panhandling, those types of laws must have been challenged in court by now and survived.
 
2014-06-25 03:05:40 PM
Some Alaskan homeless people do migrate South for the winter, others tough it out (there's at least one charity that provides tents and cold weather gear to those too paranoid/antisocial to sleep in a shelter).
 
2014-06-25 03:06:56 PM
oh well there ya go...problem solved in the land of palin.

now, I wonder what the cost will be to AK taxpayers to jail all the scofflaws (because all sorts of extra charges always get tacked on) for not only their sentences, but the time spent waiting in jail for their trial because they could not make bail?

you betcha!
 
2014-06-25 03:07:08 PM

StopLurkListen: Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.


We have a few in Edmonton. They've taken to keeping the subway stations open all night in the winter so they don't die of exposure.
 
2014-06-25 03:07:18 PM

StopLurkListen: That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.


Not all panhandlers are homeless.  Some rent rooms or couches.  Others crash at friends' places.  A few live out of their cars.  Some are scammers that dress as homeless and beg as a second job.
 
2014-06-25 03:08:51 PM

Dinjiin: StopLurkListen: That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.

Not all panhandlers are homeless.  Some rent rooms or couches.  Others crash at friends' places.  A few live out of their cars.  Some are scammers that dress as homeless and beg as a second job.


I'm soon going to be begging as a second job. I'm getting married.
 
2014-06-25 03:10:22 PM

Dinjiin: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Depends.  The article notes that they've banned "aggressive" panhandling where the beggars are actively soliciting, but that "passive" panhandling where they sit to the side with a sign is still allowed.  Given the number of munis with bans against aggressive panhandling, those types of laws must have been challenged in court by now and survived.


So I can walk up to someone and say, "Hi, beautiful day today!", but not "Hi, do you have some spare change?"  That seems like a violation of the 1st to me.
 
2014-06-25 03:10:41 PM
FTA: " "We're getting like a regular city," Mayor Verne Rupright said before the meeting."


Sounds about as intelligent as the mayor of Derpsvile ought to be.
 
2014-06-25 03:17:24 PM

Russ1642: StopLurkListen: Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.

We have a few in Edmonton. They've taken to keeping the subway stations open all night in the winter so they don't die of exposure.


Do they meet by the tree
 
2014-06-25 03:18:13 PM
They can see Russian panhandlers from their tent.
 
2014-06-25 03:21:48 PM

StopLurkListen: Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.



My mother was homeless up there for a few years. She survived -700 with a tent inside of an abandoned building, two down comforters and a few candles. She was tough as nails.

I'd bet my left nut that the people who wrote this ordinance were Evangelical Christians. There's a lot of them up there, both in politics and the air force, and none of them are very Christ like.

/A lot of homeless people in Alaska commit minor crimes in the fall to get a cot and three squares throughout winter.
//Sad, but true.
 
2014-06-25 03:28:05 PM
Send them all to the Farkus tab- problem solved.
 
2014-06-25 03:33:58 PM

TheGreatGazoo: In Memphis a few weeks ago I was hit up for money about 5 feet in front of a 'Don't give money to panhandlers' sign.


Yeah, those signs don't work.  They have these up all over Chicago:

noahwaldeck.com

but there are still asshole cyclists everywhere.
 
2014-06-25 03:37:28 PM
Spare change? SPARE CHANGE? WHAT THE HELL IS SPARE CHANGE?
 
2014-06-25 03:41:56 PM

timujin: So I can walk up to someone and say, "Hi, beautiful day today!", but not "Hi, do you have some spare change?" That seems like a violation of the 1st to me.


Seems that the courts are split on the matter.  The US 6th District Court has ruled against so-called "aggressive" panhandling bans where the aggression is not of significant nature.  Meanwhile, the US 1st District Court has ruled in favor of panhandling bans that prohibit begging in areas where the person being solicited may not be able to easily leave, such as outdoor restaurants, bus stops or lines of people in queue.
 
2014-06-25 03:42:29 PM

StopLurkListen: Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.


Most panhandlers already have some other source of income coming in...many are on disability or welfare.

Though these laws they passed in PalinBurg reek of Business Socialism...esp the laws that exempt WalMart and other businesses from excessive police calls
 
2014-06-25 03:43:09 PM

homelessdude: oh well there ya go...problem solved in the land of palin.

now, I wonder what the cost will be to AK taxpayers to jail all the scofflaws (because all sorts of extra charges always get tacked on) for not only their sentences, but the time spent waiting in jail for their trial because they could not make bail?

you betcha!


The cheapest way to deal with homeless dudes is to give them a place to live. (srsly)
 
2014-06-25 03:44:59 PM

uncleacid: They can see Russian panhandlers from their tent.


+1 internets....
 
2014-06-25 03:45:03 PM
This kind of law has been passed all over California, one city and county at a time. The homeless get a ticket, which they can't pay, which puts them in the long-term incarceration system. Poverty may become the new drug war, the new pool of prisoners for the growing prison industry. Since marijuana use is increasingly tolerated we'll need another subset to incarcerate for profit and power.

/ Prison State Industries Co.
 
2014-06-25 03:45:03 PM
This and trying to cut down on street food carts and such like. Why don't cities just criminalize being outside? That seems to be the end goal here.
 
2014-06-25 03:51:15 PM
If I were a young and enterprising lawyer, I'd head right up there and start panhandling.
 
2014-06-25 03:58:26 PM
There's some cognitive dissonance that you have to put up with living in a country where people who have trouble paying for things have to pay additional penalty fees (late payments, bank account fees, etc.), while people who have plenty of money get even more money (bonus cash for large investments, waived account fees, etc.).

And then there's this brilliant law.
 
2014-06-25 04:07:49 PM

Gaseous Anomaly: The cheapest way to deal with homeless dudes is to give them a place to live. (srsly)


Nope, seen it tried.  A friend gave a homeless person a job and a room in his boarding house during the worst of the winter.  It actually looked like it was working out, until the weather broke and spring came- then that HP was right back out under the bridge boozing it up with the rest.

They don't care about having a home.  All they really care about is their need-of-the-moment to get them from one bottle to the next.
 
2014-06-25 04:08:58 PM
Run a business, pay the fees.
 
2014-06-25 04:16:03 PM
The act of passive panhandling itself is protected.  Some cities got smart and made it an ordinance not to loiter on medians and highway exits (citing safety).  Most around this are that do it are simply doing it for the easy cash.

With all this in mind, though - I wholeheartedly support giving money to such individuals.  Well, the ones at the interstate exits anyway.  The trick is to get money to as many of them as possible in a short amount of time.  And there are many to get.  Just do what I do - listed below.

Once a week:

1)  Find someone to assist with driving/distribution of monies.
2)  Take $20 to the bank.  Ask them for penny rolls.
3)  Have your wheel man (or wheel woman) drive down the highways.
4)  Watch for sign holders at exit ramps.
5)  Take a roll of pennies and aim.  You need to make sure the coins reach their intended desparation.
6)  You can try to yell to the person so that they can try to catch the money but more than likely they will not hear you.
7)  Continue highway until you see the next sign holder.  Repeat from step 5 until you have dispensed 20 rolls of coins.
8)  Switch places with your wheel man and allow them to joy of giving.

Before you balk, understand that if every did the above, the rolls of pennies would start to add up to some serious money.  Heck, if 100 people did this, 40 sign holders would be 50 dollars richer (unless your wheelman decides they wish to donate to the same sign holders)

There is no better feeling then to give back to those less fortunate.  I am sure I have won the heart of a farker (and perhaps a farkette) or two
 
2014-06-25 04:29:46 PM

htomc: Nope, seen it tried. A friend gave a homeless person a job and a room in his boarding house during the worst of the winter. It actually looked like it was working out, until the weather broke and spring came- then that HP was right back out under the bridge boozing it up with the rest.

They don't care about having a home. All they really care about is their need-of-the-moment to get them from one bottle to the next.


It really depends on the person.  A lot of homeless do suffer from substance and mental health issues, but not all do.  Some of them are escaping domestic abuse.  Others lost their job and have no assets.
 
2014-06-25 04:35:55 PM

Precision Boobery: TheGreatGazoo: In Memphis a few weeks ago I was hit up for money about 5 feet in front of a 'Don't give money to panhandlers' sign.

Yeah, those signs don't work.  They have these up all over Chicago:

[noahwaldeck.com image 495x600]

but there are still asshole cyclists everywhere.


I lol'd
 
2014-06-25 04:36:14 PM

htomc: Gaseous Anomaly: The cheapest way to deal with homeless dudes is to give them a place to live. (srsly)

Nope, seen it tried.  A friend gave a homeless person a job and a room in his boarding house during the worst of the winter.  It actually looked like it was working out, until the weather broke and spring came- then that HP was right back out under the bridge boozing it up with the rest.

They don't care about having a home.  All they really care about is their need-of-the-moment to get them from one bottle to the next.



I'm amazed that you could derive such worldly wisdom from a single experience your friend had. Knowing that they don't care about being homeless really takes a load of civic and social responsibility off my shoulders. Thanks guy.
 
2014-06-25 04:41:16 PM

K3rmy: The act of passive panhandling itself is protected.  Some cities got smart and made it an ordinance not to loiter on medians and highway exits (citing safety).  Most around this are that do it are simply doing it for the easy cash.

With all this in mind, though - I wholeheartedly support giving money to such individuals.  Well, the ones at the interstate exits anyway.  The trick is to get money to as many of them as possible in a short amount of time.  And there are many to get.  Just do what I do - listed below.

Once a week:

1)  Find someone to assist with driving/distribution of monies.
2)  Take $20 to the bank.  Ask them for penny rolls.
3)  Have your wheel man (or wheel woman) drive down the highways.
4)  Watch for sign holders at exit ramps.
5)  Take a roll of pennies and aim.  You need to make sure the coins reach their intended desparation.
6)  You can try to yell to the person so that they can try to catch the money but more than likely they will not hear you.
7)  Continue highway until you see the next sign holder.  Repeat from step 5 until you have dispensed 20 rolls of coins.
8)  Switch places with your wheel man and allow them to joy of giving.

Before you balk, understand that if every did the above, the rolls of pennies would start to add up to some serious money.  Heck, if 100 people did this, 40 sign holders would be 50 dollars richer (unless your wheelman decides they wish to donate to the same sign holders)

There is no better feeling then to give back to those less fortunate.  I am sure I have won the heart of a farker (and perhaps a farkette) or two


I'm just picturing some gritty looking homeless guy holding a beer after distribution day with a big missing toothed grin on his bruised and swollen face
 
2014-06-25 04:43:04 PM

StopLurkListen: Are panhandlers homeless? In Alaska? How is that even possible ...do they migrate in the winter? And doesn't the Alaska Permanent Fund pay everyone in the state?

I've never been to Alaska or spent much time in any northern non-city, I've never seen panhandlers outside of cities in temperate climates. That's not saying they don't exist, I just have an empirical correlation to homeless panhandlers and outdoor environments that are compatible with human survival.


We have a big homeless problem here in Calgary (lots of people coming here for jobs and crazy high rent even for awful places). Winter nights routinely get into the 30s below. Lots of our homeless head for Vancouver to wait out the winter, but those that can't or won't have to tough it out. Many of those spend a lot of nights outdoors, and one or two die every year from hypothermia. It must be hell living outside here in winter, but it seems to be doable.
 
2014-06-25 04:47:50 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: FTA: " "We're getting like a regular city," Mayor Verne Rupright said before the meeting."

Sounds about as intelligent as the mayor of Derpsvile ought to be.


FTA:  "officials say they're grappling with big-city challenges as the population nears 10,000."

BIG city? rofl....

/and mama's coming to you today from cowtown, u.s.a.
 
2014-06-25 05:40:59 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: htomc: Gaseous Anomaly: The cheapest way to deal with homeless dudes is to give them a place to live. (srsly)

Nope, seen it tried.  A friend gave a homeless person a job and a room in his boarding house during the worst of the winter.  It actually looked like it was working out, until the weather broke and spring came- then that HP was right back out under the bridge boozing it up with the rest.

They don't care about having a home.  All they really care about is their need-of-the-moment to get them from one bottle to the next.


I'm amazed that you could derive such worldly wisdom from a single experience your friend had. Knowing that they don't care about being homeless really takes a load of civic and social responsibility off my shoulders. Thanks guy.


They are the legacy of Reagan's destruction of the social safety net.
 
2014-06-25 05:47:46 PM

timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?


Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?
 
2014-06-25 05:52:54 PM
If you want to humiliate and whore yourself and beg for money, hold a political fundraiser, just like the former mayor.
 
2014-06-25 05:55:13 PM
The panhandlers I want to see GONE are those assholes in Times Square. While I haven't been to NYC in a while, I'm getting sick of hearing about these sickos in Elmo or Spider-Man costumes feeling up or getting in altercations with strangers. End them. They are NOT legitimate business people, they don't pay taxes or license fees, and their anonymity is a major problem. Most of them seem to be illegal aliens who are gaming the system and taking advantage of people... They give legitimate immigrants and muppets a bad name.
 
2014-06-25 05:56:36 PM

Mouser: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?


The second and fourth amendments also prevent pan handling.
 
2014-06-25 05:56:38 PM

Mouser: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?


I have a 1st Amendment right to say anything I like as long as it isn't a threat or something that endangers the public ("fire" in a crowded movie theater, etc.)

You have a 1st Amendment right to tell me to fark off when I ask you for spare change.

America! It's cool.
 
2014-06-25 05:58:59 PM

Mouser: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?


I have the right to speak, you have the right to ignore me.  You not liking what I have to say doesn't take away that right, any more than I can take away the right to speak of those people that stand on a corner and ask if I've found god.

/didn't realize he was missing, perhaps they should try putting his picture on a milk bottle
 
2014-06-25 06:10:57 PM

doglover: Mouser: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?

The second and fourth amendments also prevent pan handling.


Unreasonable search and seizure? Not sure I'm following your logic on this. Unless the panhandlers represent the government and they're actually reaching in your pockets to take your money...   Wait, do you live in Washington D.C.?

Now, the Second... That could prevent panhandling, but then you'd probably need to rely on the Fifth and Sixth Amendments for using that avenue of deterrence.
 
2014-06-25 07:18:25 PM
They should fine the irresponsible stupid enabling assholes who give to panhandlers.

/give it to a shelter instead
 
2014-06-25 07:37:59 PM

R.O.U.S: at least one charity that provides tents and cold weather gear to those too paranoid/antisocial to sleep in a shelter


I'd rather sleep in a tent than a shelter. Shelters are great for picking up lice/scabies and getting your shiat stolen.
 
2014-06-25 07:41:16 PM
One local municipality has started issuing impeding traffic tickets to people that stop their vehicles to hand cash to panhandlers at the main freeway interchange coming into town.
 
2014-06-25 07:52:17 PM

timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?


Arizona's anti-panhandling law was overturned by a Federal court as a First Amendment violation, the state even conceded that panhandling was a free speech right.  It's not the first time anti-panhandling laws have been struck down, this one probably will get axed too.
 
2014-06-25 11:54:21 PM

K3rmy: The act of passive panhandling itself is protected.  Some cities got smart and made it an ordinance not to loiter on medians and highway exits (citing safety).  Most around this are that do it are simply doing it for the easy cash.

With all this in mind, though - I wholeheartedly support giving money to such individuals.  Well, the ones at the interstate exits anyway.  The trick is to get money to as many of them as possible in a short amount of time.  And there are many to get.  Just do what I do - listed below.

Once a week:

1)  Find someone to assist with driving/distribution of monies.
2)  Take $20 to the bank.  Ask them for penny rolls.
3)  Have your wheel man (or wheel woman) drive down the highways.
4)  Watch for sign holders at exit ramps.
5)  Take a roll of pennies and aim.  You need to make sure the coins reach their intended desparation.
6)  You can try to yell to the person so that they can try to catch the money but more than likely they will not hear you.
7)  Continue highway until you see the next sign holder.  Repeat from step 5 until you have dispensed 20 rolls of coins.
8)  Switch places with your wheel man and allow them to joy of giving.

Before you balk, understand that if every did the above, the rolls of pennies would start to add up to some serious money.  Heck, if 100 people did this, 40 sign holders would be 50 dollars richer (unless your wheelman decides they wish to donate to the same sign holders)

There is no better feeling then to give back to those less fortunate.  I am sure I have won the heart of a farker (and perhaps a farkette) or two


Make sure to get the machine rolled pennies from the bank instead of the hand rolled pennies.

You don't want to have the roll break open in flight or on impact.

Bank of America shrink-wraps their coinage - they dont bust open easily. Plus, they're lightweight (125 g) ; so they're easy to throw.
 
2014-06-26 12:47:08 AM

Mouser: timujin: Don't these sorts of things usually get slapped down as 1st Amendment violations?

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say you have a right to hit me up for spare change?


Wait.  So now things aren't allowed unless they're mentioned specifically in an Amendment?

I guess everything really DID change after 9/11.
 
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