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(Washington Post)   NTSB releases Asiana crash report: "The pilot flying the plane was experienced, but lacked certain critical skills for guiding the aircraft," like how not to fly a perfectly healthy jumbo jet into a sea wall   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 94
    More: Followup, San Francisco, National Transportation Safety Board, air crews, Asiana Airlines, pilot error, acting president, Transportation Safety Board  
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3096 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2014 at 1:26 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-24 12:13:20 PM  
Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue, please watch the NTSB recreation of what they did and didn't do on the approach:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground. The command pilot should never be allowed in a cockpit again.
 
2014-06-24 12:52:40 PM  

Warthog: Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue


Acknowledging that automation was a factor hardly exonerates the pilots. It's their job to actually know how to use the automated systems properly,
 
2014-06-24 01:15:38 PM  
Hand flying aircraft is becoming an increasingly rare skill. I'm an old-school pilot that believes if the automation isn't doing what you want, simply shut it off and just fly the damn plane. But more and more I'm flying with button-jockeys whose reliance on the automation has handicapped them to the point where they really are not competent to fly without it.
 
2014-06-24 01:24:18 PM  

Warthog: The command pilot, Sum Ting Wong, should never be allowed in a cockpit again.


Clarification.
 
2014-06-24 01:31:02 PM  
If a pilot can't visually confirm he is flying too low and too slow, he needs to switch to helicopters.
 
2014-06-24 01:32:30 PM  
A perfectly healthy aircraft? As opposed to one with tuberculosis? Or maybe one that was a leper?

/why yes, I am being facetious
 
2014-06-24 01:32:33 PM  
Was this Captain Sum Ting Wong?
 
2014-06-24 01:34:54 PM  
Looks like those pilots had a flying license to ill.

img.washingtonpost.com
 
2014-06-24 01:35:58 PM  
Ho Lee Fuk
 
GBB
2014-06-24 01:36:22 PM  
The pilot had experience, but was not experienced.

Got it.
 
2014-06-24 01:37:20 PM  
Someone was thrown from the plane and then run over multiple times by firefighters. Someone pissed off the old testament god.
 
2014-06-24 01:38:44 PM  
He did a great job of not missing the ground.
 
2014-06-24 01:41:24 PM  

Gyrfalcon: He did a great job of not missing the ground.


That's the trick with flying, isn't it? It's about not missing the ground by just the right amount, in just the right place.
 
2014-06-24 01:42:11 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Warthog: The command pilot, Sum Ting Wong, should never be allowed in a cockpit again.

Clarification.


Those remarks are uncalled for.

The co-pilot Wei Tue Lo shares some of the blame here.

And a Vietnamese trainee... Nôt Mùch Nguyen.

/too much?
//slashies, I mean
 
2014-06-24 01:43:54 PM  

Warthog: These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground.


Case closed.  No further discussion needed.

There was nothing at all wrong with the airplane.
 
jvl
2014-06-24 01:45:53 PM  

Russ1642: Someone was thrown from the plane and then run over multiple times by firefighters. Someone pissed off the old testament god.


Also, they failed to fasten their seatbelt.
 
2014-06-24 01:46:03 PM  

GBB: The pilot had experience, but was not experienced.

Got it.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-24 01:52:27 PM  

JustGetItRight: Warthog: These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground.

Case closed.  No further discussion needed.

There was nothing at all wrong with the airplane.


There is now!
 
2014-06-24 01:53:07 PM  

Seabon: Was this Captain Sum Ting Wong?


Yes, he ignored the advice from co-captain Wi Tu Lo.
 
2014-06-24 01:53:27 PM  
I didn't know you could fly a plane.

Fly yes. Land, no.
 
2014-06-24 01:54:55 PM  
Second Officer, Wee Tu Lo, observed, "it was a landing, not a good one, but a landing nonetheless."
 
2014-06-24 01:55:18 PM  

Russ1642: Someone was thrown from the plane and then run over multiple times by firefighters. Someone pissed off the old testament god.


Actually a couple of someones, and they may not have even been thrown from the plane, but exited from the rear only to be ran over by rescue vehicles.
 
2014-06-24 01:55:38 PM  
HL7742 SQUAK SHEET.

"Autoland system not functioning properly"

Mech:

"Aircraft not equipped with autoland"
 
2014-06-24 01:55:45 PM  
One of the first things that a pilot learns is that if the runway numbers are rising in the windshield, the airplane is too low.  So, this "experienced" pilot watched impassively as he flew the plane into the ground.

Warthog nailed it in ... teh ... Boobies.

/No boobies here.
 
2014-06-24 01:56:45 PM  

Warthog: Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue, please watch the NTSB recreation of what they did and didn't do on the approach:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground. The command pilot should never be allowed in a cockpit again.


Perhaps. But  honestly there is a CRM issue here as well. The PM waited way too long to take action despite the fact that the PF wasn't behaving as expected. The PM identified the issue a full minute before the crash and called out sink and speed three different times and still never did anything. It wasn't until four seconds before the crash that the PM took action. The same thing we saw in the recent military crash in Alaska.
 
2014-06-24 01:57:06 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Warthog: The command pilot, Sum Ting Wong, should never be allowed in a cockpit again.

Clarification.


He didn't listen to co-pilot Wee Too Lo.

/Window seat, please, but not on Asiana or Malaysia.
 
2014-06-24 01:58:47 PM  

Omnivorous: One of the first things that a pilot learns is that if the runway numbers are rising in the windshield, the airplane is too low.  So, this "experienced" pilot watched impassively as he flew the plane into the ground.


This implies he was looking out the window. I bet he was staring at his instruments and mode control panel most of the time.
 
2014-06-24 01:59:31 PM  
In his defense, that wall was coming right for him.
 
2014-06-24 02:00:27 PM  

TanSau: Asian pilots are the worst.... seriously.

Every bit of automation could fail and then you'd still have the skills to complete the flight safely.

Airmanship is a dying art.


So they fly airplanes as well as they drive cars?

/yes, I went there...
 
2014-06-24 02:04:48 PM  
"Click click, click click".

Drop down a level or ten in automation and do somma that pilot shiat, Mav.

Children of the Magenta....flying s G-D widebody.
 
2014-06-24 02:05:13 PM  

Warthog: Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue, please watch the NTSB recreation of what they did and didn't do on the approach:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground. The command pilot should never be allowed in a cockpit again.


I once flew an fa-18 interceptor at mach to on a road outside Chicago, that was in around 1990 though you probably can't do that anymore.
 
2014-06-24 02:05:52 PM  

Yaw String: Hand flying aircraft is becoming an increasingly rare skill. I'm an old-school pilot that believes if the automation isn't doing what you want, simply shut it off and just fly the damn plane. But more and more I'm flying with button-jockeys whose reliance on the automation has handicapped them to the point where they really are not competent to fly without it.


The pilot didn't know what a proper visual approach looked liked in this aircaft. He failed to vizually recognize the touchdown point, an essential skill as Yaw String knows.
 
2014-06-24 02:10:55 PM  

Warthog: Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue, please watch the NTSB recreation of what they did and didn't do on the approach:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground. The command pilot should never be allowed in a cockpit again.


Great googily moogily!
They really smashed up a perfectly good jet, didn't they?
 
2014-06-24 02:13:16 PM  
Bang Ding Ow, tired of getting beat up in the press, was unavailable for comment.
 
2014-06-24 02:13:32 PM  

MechaPyx: I didn't know you could fly a plane.

Fly yes. Land, no.


I've flown 174 mission. Shot down on every damn one of them. Come to think of it, I've never landed a plane in my life!
 
2014-06-24 02:16:13 PM  
Blue angle... good

Plotted course good.

Angle of approach, not good.
 
2014-06-24 02:16:39 PM  
albatros183:
I once flew an fa-18 interceptor at mach to on a road outside Chicago, that was in around 1990 though you probably can't do that anymore.

Was that when you were in the Marine Corpse?
/I Keed
 
2014-06-24 02:18:36 PM  
It should have been OK. They were flying on instruments.
lh3.ggpht.com
 
2014-06-24 02:28:45 PM  
Controlled flight into terrain. Has

Byno: albatros183:
I once flew an fa-18 interceptor at mach to on a road outside Chicago, that was in around 1990 though you probably can't do that anymore.

Was that when you were in the Marine Corpse?
/I Keed


a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Infant-ery dude, git yer name-in-cloture rite.

/yo auto-correct
//whatsa cloture?
///little man in boat?
 
2014-06-24 02:29:34 PM  
Beer-maid, another round.
 
2014-06-24 02:32:36 PM  

Omnivorous: One of the first things that a pilot learns is that if the runway numbers are rising in the windshield, the airplane is too low.  So, this "experienced" pilot watched impassively as he flew the plane into the ground.


Yep. Early on in flight school they teach you that the throttle follows the numbers. If they are moving towards you, pull back because you're too high and going too fast. If they are moving away from you, increase throttle because you're too low and too slow.

What was that saying about the VASI lights at the end of the runway?

White over white you're high as a kite / you'll fly all night
Red over white you're all right
Red over red you're dead
 
2014-06-24 02:36:02 PM  

Spanky3woods: Omnivorous: One of the first things that a pilot learns is that if the runway numbers are rising in the windshield, the airplane is too low.  So, this "experienced" pilot watched impassively as he flew the plane into the ground.

Yep. Early on in flight school they teach you that the throttle follows the numbers. If they are moving towards you, pull back because you're too high and going too fast. If they are moving away from you, increase throttle because you're too low and too slow.

What was that saying about the VASI lights at the end of the runway?

White over white you're high as a kite / you'll fly all night
Red over white you're all right
Red over red you're dead


I remember in a advioce column of some sorts, I want to say in the AOPA magazine maybe, back in the mid 90s...someone asked "But what happens if it's white over red?"  The expert pointed out this is impossible. Some smartass wrote in on the next issue "butt what if you're flying an INVERTED approach?"
 
2014-06-24 02:38:16 PM  
This is total BS. The pilots were intoxicated thanks to stewardess Hav Sum Rum.
 
2014-06-24 02:40:29 PM  

Nocrash: Yaw String: Hand flying aircraft is becoming an increasingly rare skill. I'm an old-school pilot that believes if the automation isn't doing what you want, simply shut it off and just fly the damn plane. But more and more I'm flying with button-jockeys whose reliance on the automation has handicapped them to the point where they really are not competent to fly without it.

The pilot didn't know what a proper visual approach looked liked in this aircaft. He failed to vizually recognize the touchdown point, an essential skill as Yaw String knows.


I've never flown a jet equipped w/ auto-throttles, so its use or misuse is outside my experience. But it appears to me that while late, he realizes he's coming in low and pitching up to make the touchdown point. But because the auto-throttles are in "hold" mode, airspeed continues to decay. There is a bit of time between the disconnect of the autopilot to the moment (too late) that the power levers are pushed forward.

Some thing to point out:
When the non-flying pilot starts chirping about anything (speed, glide slope, sink rate, etc.) and changes aren't being made in a timely fashion, it's time for the non-flying pilot to get in the game. Sitting and watching the other guy fly you into the ground isn't doing anyone any favors.
 
2014-06-24 02:42:01 PM  

Russ1642: Someone was thrown from the plane and then run over multiple times by firefighters. Someone pissed off the old testament god.


They were found to not be wearing their seat belt while landing, so it's a bit more Darwin than God of Moses.
 
2014-06-24 02:43:54 PM  

albatros183: Warthog: Before anyone comes in and tries to white knight the pilots, saying this was an aircraft automation issue, please watch the NTSB recreation of what they did and didn't do on the approach:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

These guys failed to stabilize their approach, and then literally flew their aircraft into the ground. The command pilot should never be allowed in a cockpit again.

I once flew an fa-18 interceptor at mach to on a road outside Chicago, that was in around 1990 though you probably can't do that anymore.


Are you related to that guy who lit off his afterburner over Canada and triggered a NORAD alert?
 
2014-06-24 02:45:25 PM  
Cool video. Thanks, Subby.
 
2014-06-24 02:46:27 PM  

Yaw String: But it appears to me that while late, he realizes he's coming in low and pitching up to make the touchdown point.


This is the problem...he recognized he was losing altitude and pitched up. The PROBLEM is, in that phase of flight, pilot training 101  (Seriously, day 1 of a basic private pilot certificate) is that attidue=AIRSPEED, not ALTITUDE. So pitching up makes you slow down, not climb.  The throttle input comes WAY too late.  His immediate response at THAT point (which he never should have gotten to to begin with on a clear day with a long straight approach like that) should have been THROTTLE input.
 
2014-06-24 02:56:32 PM  
I watched a BBC documentary on Malaysian Air Flight MH370

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpfYvGWt8qo

It was interesting that an airline had decompression and two interceptor aircraft saw both pilots slumped unconcious and a non-cabin crew member with a portable oxygen system was standing working the controls while the plane flew on autopilot.

Apparently, with this aircraft, the heading can be changed manually without removing the aircraft from autopilot. If the MH370 pilot knew he was losing consciousness and decided to change the heading back to Malaysia while on autopilot, he might have gotten the math  wrong and set the plane to fly in the wrong direction.

Very interesting documentary. Apparently, the hotspot that Invarsat predicted where the plane crashed hasn't been searched yet.
 
2014-06-24 02:59:14 PM  

Russ1642: Someone was thrown from the plane and then run over multiple times by firefighters. Someone pissed off the old testament god.


Is this the one where they had video of someone telling the firefighters to stop but they kept driving until they ran over that woman? And at what point was it considered okay for emergency vehicles to run over bodies as long as you thought they were dead?
 
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