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(Lehigh Valley Live)   NJ high school employee's job is to offer free and confidential services to students seeking help with drug abuse and other non-academic issues. She gets fired for doing just that   (lehighvalleylive.com) divider line 71
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10143 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2014 at 4:20 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-24 12:52:49 PM
She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...
 
2014-06-24 01:12:44 PM

PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...



It was her job to talk to students confidentially regarding drug issues.
 
2014-06-24 01:16:21 PM

Blues_X: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...


It was her job to talk to students confidentially regarding drug issues.


Then I'm sure once she explains her side of things (it was CONFIDENTIAL!) the school will forget all about it...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-06-24 01:40:20 PM
An issue that came up in Massachusetts involved sex advice. An under-16 child having sex is felony child abuse. There is no "Romeo and Juliet" law. Two 15 year olds = two felons. School employees are mandatory reporters. If a 15 year old asks a nurse for a condom, or worries about having an STD, a report of suspected child abuse is supposed to be filed. Schools can't make the state law reporting obligation go away by saying it's the person's job to give out condoms. I think prosecutors and state school officials decided to ignore the law, but I'm not sure of that.
 
2014-06-24 01:48:35 PM

PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing.


Yeah...that does sound pretty bad.

thinklikeaneditor.net

Say, you have a link to that?
 
2014-06-24 01:53:13 PM

Blues_X: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...


It was her job to talk to students confidentially regarding drug issues.


Yeah, but she did more than just talk to them confidentially:

Officials say when one student complained to Young about being scammed by another student in a marijuana deal, Young had the students undo the deal by returning money and pot to each other. Young failed to notify school administrators about the transaction.

Confidentiality doesn't allow her to facilitate illegal transactions.
 
2014-06-24 02:09:06 PM
Finding it hard to get outraged about this. It's one thing to offer confidential advice and counseling. It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.
 
2014-06-24 02:11:15 PM

scottydoesntknow: Finding it hard to get outraged about this. It's one thing to offer confidential advice and counseling. It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.


BUT I will also say that it's hard to act as a confidential counselor when kids don't know whether or not you're going to snitch on them. The second she reports it all trust is lost between her and the students.

She was stuck between a crack rock and a hard piece on this one.
 
2014-06-24 02:12:11 PM

PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...


Working in that type of a position she can only be effective if the students know what they come to her with won't result in them being busted.

If she has to report every confession of a crime no one who needs help is going to come to her.

In the example in the article I think she handled the situation well. She diffused the situation and now knows that at least two students can use some help getting over drug use/dealing, which she could have followed up over the long term.  If they hadn't had her to come to the kid who got ripped off might have then turned to violence against the other kid.  Trenton does have a gang problem, so it's not out of the question to assume that it may have led to gunplay.

It sounds like the school is too intent on following The letter of the law instead of policies designed to actually help the students.
 
2014-06-24 02:13:50 PM
The Times of Trenton reports an arbitrator found Young set into motion and presided over a disjointed version of street justice

And so it was.
 
2014-06-24 03:38:03 PM

TuteTibiImperes: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...

Working in that type of a position she can only be effective if the students know what they come to her with won't result in them being busted.

If she has to report every confession of a crime no one who needs help is going to come to her.

In the example in the article I think she handled the situation well. She diffused the situation and now knows that at least two students can use some help getting over drug use/dealing, which she could have followed up over the long term.  If they hadn't had her to come to the kid who got ripped off might have then turned to violence against the other kid.  Trenton does have a gang problem, so it's not out of the question to assume that it may have led to gunplay.

It sounds like the school is too intent on following The letter of the law instead of policies designed to actually help the students.


Letter or spirit of the law notwithstanding, the school really didn't have much choice here - you just can't have school employees brokering drug deals on school property.  It wasn't the witnessing or the confessions that did her in, it was her active participation.
 
2014-06-24 03:44:15 PM

El_Perro: TuteTibiImperes: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...

Working in that type of a position she can only be effective if the students know what they come to her with won't result in them being busted.

If she has to report every confession of a crime no one who needs help is going to come to her.

In the example in the article I think she handled the situation well. She diffused the situation and now knows that at least two students can use some help getting over drug use/dealing, which she could have followed up over the long term.  If they hadn't had her to come to the kid who got ripped off might have then turned to violence against the other kid.  Trenton does have a gang problem, so it's not out of the question to assume that it may have led to gunplay.

It sounds like the school is too intent on following The letter of the law instead of policies designed to actually help the students.

Letter or spirit of the law notwithstanding, the school really didn't have much choice here - you just can't have school employees brokering drug deals on school property.  It wasn't the witnessing or the confessions that did her in, it was her active participation.


Well, she didn't broker a drug deal, she reversed one.  It would be one thing if a kid told her he wanted to buy pot and she set him up with a dealer.  The drug deal had already gone down, she just nullified it.
 
2014-06-24 04:26:48 PM
It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.
 
2014-06-24 04:28:58 PM
Common sense would dictate that having her step in to reverse the deal would be preferable to having the students escalate their conflict to violence, which is probably what would have happened otherwise.

But being that this is a high school administration, common sense has no place whatsoever in determining outcomes.
 
2014-06-24 04:29:19 PM
 

scottydoesntknow: scottydoesntknow: Finding it hard to get outraged about this. It's one thing to offer confidential advice and counseling. It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.

BUT I will also say that it's hard to act as a confidential counselor when kids don't know whether or not you're going to snitch on them. The second she reports it all trust is lost between her and the students.

She was stuck between a crack rock and a hard piece on this one.


No,  she wasn't stuck between a crack rock and a hard piece.  All she had to do was not arbitrate a dope deal.
 
2014-06-24 04:29:33 PM

TuteTibiImperes: El_Perro: TuteTibiImperes: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...

Working in that type of a position she can only be effective if the students know what they come to her with won't result in them being busted.

If she has to report every confession of a crime no one who needs help is going to come to her.

In the example in the article I think she handled the situation well. She diffused the situation and now knows that at least two students can use some help getting over drug use/dealing, which she could have followed up over the long term.  If they hadn't had her to come to the kid who got ripped off might have then turned to violence against the other kid.  Trenton does have a gang problem, so it's not out of the question to assume that it may have led to gunplay.

It sounds like the school is too intent on following The letter of the law instead of policies designed to actually help the students.

Letter or spirit of the law notwithstanding, the school really didn't have much choice here - you just can't have school employees brokering drug deals on school property.  It wasn't the witnessing or the confessions that did her in, it was her active participation.

Well, she didn't broker a drug deal, she reversed one.  It would be one thing if a kid told her he wanted to buy pot and she set him up with a dealer.  The drug deal had already gone down, she just nullified it.


Most schools and work places have a no narcotics on property rule in place..

The whole situation is really weird

Feels like one of those moments where someone calls 911 to report their weed was stolen, etc.
 
2014-06-24 04:30:07 PM
If she knew the school legal requirements for notification, this should not have been much of a surprise. It's not unusual for drug abuse advisors in school districts to have to decide whether to put their jobs at risk.

//I actually know a few I went to college with who talked about how to negotiate the risks involved with their jobs. It's likely more politics than legality in these situations.
 
2014-06-24 04:30:39 PM
I think her heart was in the right place.  But unfortunately, she kinda broke the rules.
And you can't say she was "undoing" the deal.  The deal wasn't actually over, until she oversaw the rest of it.  That's what the problem was.

Had she simply advised the kid to go undo the deal, she would have been within her bounds.  But she didn't.  She went beyond that.

Now having said that, this is one of the PRIMARY reasons that pot needs to be made legal already.  This woman's life is all farked up now because of something that shouldn't be illegal to start with.  And she's not going to get her life back once they finally get their collective heads out of their asses and legalize it.
 
2014-06-24 04:31:59 PM

Russ1642: It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.


Well then, it's probably a good thing she didn't.

It could even be argued that she cancelled out a drug deal.
 
2014-06-24 04:33:57 PM
I'm sure it was her supervisor's job to explain what the line was for a counselor who would hear about criminal behavior in confidence. Like when to say "It would be illegal for me to suggest that you undo the trade, because that would be an illegal act even though your purchase was an illegal act." And how to say it.

Hell, it would require a supervisor to form those words into something a teenager could understand.
So there's more blame to go around. All the way up to the principal and superintendant. Perhaps transferring the school to the prison system now would save steps all around.
 
2014-06-24 04:35:59 PM

scottydoesntknow: Finding it hard to get outraged about this. It's one thing to offer confidential advice and counseling. It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.


But the alternative may have led to someone busting a cap in the other one's ass.
/Why is it that when you bust a rhyme or bust a move you can do it anywhere, but when you bust a cap, it's gotten to be in someone's ass?
//shamelessly stolen from Lamb (Christopher Moore)
 
2014-06-24 04:36:30 PM
Where are you people getting the idea that she witnessed any exchange of drugs for money, or that there was even drugs on campus.

All that can be discerned is that the drugs and money were returned to their previous owners and that she was the reason why that happened. Nothing else is known. Nothing more can be assumed from that.
 
2014-06-24 04:37:00 PM
Yeah. Talking about it is one thing - Negotiating what is basically a drug deal in reverse crossed the line...
 
2014-06-24 04:37:03 PM
I think the important thing is that the kids at that school have learned a valuable lesson on trusting authorities.
 
2014-06-24 04:37:03 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-06-24 04:37:04 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Russ1642: It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.

Well then, it's probably a good thing she didn't.

It could even be argued that she cancelled out a drug deal.


It could be just as easily argued that she set up a second drug deal.
 
2014-06-24 04:37:47 PM
i1168.photobucket.com

I'll bet she always entered the school building wearing a beautiful dress, with a quick spin to show it off.

/old I am
//lawn, off
 
2014-06-24 04:38:11 PM

Blues_X: PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...


It was her job to talk to students confidentially regarding drug issues.


I'm pretty sure the intention is to get kids to either not use drugs, to use drugs safety if they are doing so, or to help them stop.  NOT to help negotiate transaction terms.
 
2014-06-24 04:38:59 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 803x1024]


Blast!  Scooped again...
 
2014-06-24 04:40:34 PM

Russ1642: Gecko Gingrich: Russ1642: It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.

Well then, it's probably a good thing she didn't.

It could even be argued that she cancelled out a drug deal.

It could be just as easily argued that she set up a second drug deal.


Or that she's a Crip!
 
2014-06-24 04:50:25 PM
I dunno but when I was in school I would have never gone to an adult about being ripped off for drugs. But I never did drugs in HS so there is that. I probaly would have found something the guy ripped me off cherished and farked it up, like slash the tires on his car.

Her dumb move was having them make the exchange in front of her, she should have told them to make the exchange off school grounds and not in front of anyone.
 
2014-06-24 04:50:58 PM
You have to aks yourself one question. "Would this have happened if the school was under Shari'ah Law?
 
2014-06-24 04:53:17 PM
The Times of Trenton reports an arbitrator found Young set into motion and presided over a disjointed version of street justice


Uh, maybe times have changed, but I thought 'street justice' for a drug deal gone bad involved getting your skull cracked open with a brick and having two tablespoons of grey matter randomly removed. As as start.

/looks like we got *scoop* ...3rd grade and *scoop*....apparently bladder control. You fark me again, Bob, and I'm taking THREE scoops. You got that? Bob? Bob?
//Bust a deal, face the wheel.
 
2014-06-24 04:54:24 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I'm pretty sure the intention is to get kids to either not use drugs, to use drugs safety if they are doing so, or to help them stop. NOT to help negotiate transaction terms.


I'd argue that helping kids in a rough area to resolve their disputes equitably and without violence is indeed helping them "use drugs safely".

It would be nice to know more about Ms. Young's actual role in this "transaction", as that is unclear. What she did wasn't wrong, though, regardless of how active a hand she had in it.
 
2014-06-24 04:56:23 PM
Remember kids: Never snitch on your friends, your dealers, or your drug dealing ethics counselor.
 
2014-06-24 04:56:49 PM

MythDragon: The Times of Trenton reports an arbitrator found Young set into motion and presided over a disjointed version of street justice


Uh, maybe times have changed, but I thought 'street justice' for a drug deal gone bad involved getting your skull cracked open with a brick and having two tablespoons of grey matter randomly removed. As as start.

/looks like we got *scoop* ...3rd grade and *scoop*....apparently bladder control. You fark me again, Bob, and I'm taking THREE scoops. You got that? Bob? Bob?
//Bust a deal, face the wheel.


Yeah, that actually sounds like a disjointed understanding of street smarts.
 
2014-06-24 04:57:53 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If they hadn't had her to come to the kid who got ripped off might have then turned to violence against the other kid.


Bingo.  A large part of my wanting to legalize, not just decriminalize drugs is to enable the courts to handle 'civil issues'.  Selling somebody bad drugs can lead to a form of vigilante justice, which combined with turf protection/exploitation and criminals that specifically target drug users/dealers because they're unable to utilize normal police protection and court mediation results in most of our violence problems today.
 
2014-06-24 05:00:23 PM

Firethorn: Bingo. A large part of my wanting to legalize, not just decriminalize drugs is to enable the courts to handle 'civil issues'. Selling somebody bad drugs can lead to a form of vigilante justice, which combined with turf protection/exploitation and criminals that specifically target drug users/dealers because they're unable to utilize normal police protection and court mediation results in most of our violence problems today.


This.
It still wouldn't make everything a magical candyland, but having handy nonviolent recourse for "asshole stole my stash/sold me oregano" would really, really help.
 
2014-06-24 05:15:02 PM
The lesson here, kids, is that instead of resolving conflict with trusted adults you should probably just shoot the kid who screwed you in a deal.
 
2014-06-24 05:18:54 PM

El_Perro: Confidentiality doesn't allow her to facilitate illegal transactions.


Well if buying pot is illegal, wouldn't undoing that transaction be ipso facto legal?  Like stopping someone's heart then shocking them back to life, so it never happened.  Just trying to keep with the pristine logic of the drug war in general.
 
2014-06-24 05:19:28 PM

That Guy Jeff: The lesson here, kids, is that instead of resolving conflict with trusted adults you should probably just shoot the kid who screwed you in a deal.


That should apply to all situations.

"You stole my tv!" *pop!*

"You cut in line!" *pop!*

"Waiter, this lobster tastes like fish!" *pop!*
 
2014-06-24 05:22:55 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Where are you people getting the idea that she witnessed any exchange of drugs for money, or that there was even drugs on campus.

All that can be discerned is that the drugs and money were returned to their previous owners and that she was the reason why that happened. Nothing else is known. Nothing more can be assumed from that.


I do not recall seeing a single post making that claim.
What the article does say is "Young had the students undo the deal by returning money and pot to each other" so it's safe to assume at some point she told student x to hand back the drugs and student y to hand back the money. That's clearly outside the scope of offering "confidential services to students seeking help with drug abuse "
 
2014-06-24 05:36:10 PM
Probably had a six figure salary.
 
2014-06-24 05:40:37 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Where are you people getting the idea that she witnessed any exchange of drugs for money, or that there was even drugs on campus.


Saners: I do not recall seeing a single post making that claim.


PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...


El_Perro: Confidentiality doesn't allow her to facilitate illegal transactions.


scottydoesntknow: It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.


El_Perro: you just can't have school employees brokering drug deals on school property. It wasn't the witnessing or the confessions that did her in, it was her active participation.


Russ1642: It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.


AugieDoggyDaddy: All she had to do was not arbitrate a dope deal.


Czechzican: Most schools and work places have a no narcotics on property rule in place..


durbnpoisn: And you can't say she was "undoing" the deal. The deal wasn't actually over, until she oversaw the rest of it. That's what the problem was.

Had she simply advised the kid to go undo the deal, she would have been within her bounds. But she didn't. She went beyond that.


groppet: Her dumb move was having them make the exchange in front of her, she should have told them to make the exchange off school grounds and not in front of anyone.

 
2014-06-24 05:49:58 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Where are you people getting the idea that she witnessed any exchange of drugs for money, or that there was even drugs on campus.

All that can be discerned is that the drugs and money were returned to their previous owners and that she was the reason why that happened. Nothing else is known. Nothing more can be assumed from that.



The linked article is pretty skimpy on details, but at least implies that she was involved in the exchange.  This article provides more details, and clarifies that the exchange took place in front of her:

Last October, Young was visited in her office by a female student, identified only in the report as G.H, who alleged that she had been "skimped" in a recent marijuana purchase from J.C., another Steinert student.

After J.C. reported to her office, Young directed the two students to undo the transaction, J.C. testified.

"(G.H.) took out the bag, and Ms. Young told me that I should give her the money back and take the weed back, and so I did," J.C. testified.

Pecklers said the students were comfortable enough with Young and her office that they believed "what goes on in there stays in there."

. . .

At times, Young admitted to being hazy on the details of the incident: "That day created a lot of discourse with all that went on and I really cannot say. The
kids would remember better than I would," she testified.

She said the blame was placed upon her as part of a scheme by J.C. - who was expelled after being caught with the drugs during the next class period - and a friend, Pecklers said.
 
2014-06-24 05:53:47 PM
In civilized places marijuana isn't illegal. This only seems to be an issue for mouthbreathers and rednecks for some reason.
 
2014-06-24 05:54:19 PM
They pay kids to smoke crack.
 
2014-06-24 05:54:39 PM
Anyone else read the headline and think it was going to be about the employee giving out free dime-bags and oral sex?
 
2014-06-24 05:56:22 PM

Blues_X: It was her job to talk to students confidentially regarding drug issues.


Isn't there a difference between offering to help them with problems they might be having with drugs, be it dependence/etc, but it's different when she " had the students undo the deal by returning money and pot to each other. ". Isn't technically a deal, more of a refunds thing, file a customer complaint and all that, but she shouldn't have been *that* involved with the problem.

As you can see, it could be construed she was brokering a deal, even if it didn't happen on school grounds.
 
2014-06-24 05:56:25 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Gecko Gingrich: Where are you people getting the idea that she witnessed any exchange of drugs for money, or that there was even drugs on campus.

Saners: I do not recall seeing a single post making that claim.

PhiloeBedoe: She witnessed a crime and did nothing. I applaud her heart but her judgement as a school official is lacking...

El_Perro: Confidentiality doesn't allow her to facilitate illegal transactions.

scottydoesntknow: It's a whole different thing to act as arbitrator in a drug deal.

El_Perro: you just can't have school employees brokering drug deals on school property. It wasn't the witnessing or the confessions that did her in, it was her active participation.

Russ1642: It sure wasn't her job to act as a drug deal facilitator.

AugieDoggyDaddy: All she had to do was not arbitrate a dope deal.

Czechzican: Most schools and work places have a no narcotics on property rule in place..

durbnpoisn: And you can't say she was "undoing" the deal. The deal wasn't actually over, until she oversaw the rest of it. That's what the problem was.

Had she simply advised the kid to go undo the deal, she would have been within her bounds. But she didn't. She went beyond that.

groppet: Her dumb move was having them make the exchange in front of her, she should have told them to make the exchange off school grounds and not in front of anyone.



Here.. more details! She had the students do the undoing in front of her, in her office.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2014/06/steinert_employee_dismiss ed _for_allegedly_brokering_drug_transaction_between_students.html
 
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