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(Al Jazeera)   A growing number of cities and states are making it illegal to ask job seekers if they have ever been convicted of a crime, finally relieving subby of having to explain that whole meth-fueled circus midget thing from the 80's   (america.aljazeera.com) divider line 160
    More: Interesting, workforce development, temporary work, faith-based  
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2370 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2014 at 2:17 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-24 01:49:47 PM
They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.
 
2014-06-24 02:20:20 PM

SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.


Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.
 
2014-06-24 02:20:54 PM
What if you were convicted of ask a job applicant if they had ever been convicted?
 
2014-06-24 02:20:58 PM
One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.
 
2014-06-24 02:22:05 PM

SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.


THIS!

However, if I am hiring someone who drives, if they have a DUI that is an issue. Otherwise, I agree. We had someone apply for a job with my department. He was qualified to some degree, but boss REFUSED to even interview the guy because he had spent time in jail for stalking about five or more years ago when he was 18 or 19. Ridiculous.
 
2014-06-24 02:22:24 PM
That's sizist
 
2014-06-24 02:22:29 PM
Good idea.  After people have done their time or paid their fine let them have a chance to start over.  Busted for selling pot 12 years ago shouldn't bring a life sentence of discrimination.
 
2014-06-24 02:22:44 PM

Devo: One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.


you act like the us has had a mass-incarceration policy for 30+ years.
 
2014-06-24 02:23:25 PM
Frankly, I feel the potential employer has every right to this particular tidbit of knowledge.  What is your spouse/son/daughter works there?  Recently in my region there was a case of a woman being murdered by a co-worker who was a 'former felon.'  Fark them and their "rights."
 
2014-06-24 02:23:36 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Credit score is not. It means you have debt and make payments on time. I have a mortgage, but no other debt. A credit check is one thing, but don't base it on the score.
 
2014-06-24 02:24:01 PM
I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this.

If I were an employer, I would absolutely do a little bit of checking before even interviewing.  It's entirely too costly to go through the entire process and find out that the potential candidate is a convicted felon.

That sort of thing is public record.  So, fine.  You're not allowed to ask.  Doesn't mean you're not allowed to check.
And you can make any friggin excuse in the universe as to why you didn't hire someone.

What I find more hypocritical than anything about this, is that if you have a felony on your record (in NJ), you are not allowed to hold gov't employment (or carry a gun, or vote, etc...).
So, THEY can deny someone employment for that.  But they demand that the private sector is not allowed any such rule.
 
2014-06-24 02:24:22 PM

Devo: One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.


Since we've decided to become a police state, asking if you've ever been convicted of anything suddenly becomes a problem for ever hiring anyone.
 
2014-06-24 02:24:46 PM
Who cares if the employer asks or not? A background check would tell them regardless.
 
2014-06-24 02:25:07 PM

SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.


Amen.   Criminal background is at least relevant to how trustworthy/safe it is to hire you, but what the fark is it your business if I have lousy credit?   After I lost one job and had been unemployed for about 4 months my credit was utter shiat of course, but I got an offer for another job that was perfect for me,  I was insanely qualified to do, and paid six figures.    Three times I was recruited for the job, wowed the interviewers to the point they were gushing over me,   got a faxed job offer the same day, and then...nothing....finally found out they were (illegally without my consent) running a credit check after I sent them my W-2 s and other pre-employment paperwork) and company polkicy was to automatically deny anyone under a certain FICO score
 
2014-06-24 02:25:32 PM
Is it still legal to ask if they were Indicted of a Crime?
 
2014-06-24 02:25:58 PM

Cold_Sassy: Frankly, I feel the potential employer has every right to this particular tidbit of knowledge.  What is your spouse/son/daughter works there?  Recently in my region there was a case of a woman being murdered by a co-worker who was a 'former felon.'  Fark them and their "rights."


Granted, theft, murder and rape, plus murderdeathkill, should be fair game.

Worse to be a thief than mostanything else in a place where you might handle money
 
2014-06-24 02:26:25 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Perhaps if the reporting companies were a little more trustworthy I'd agree.
 
2014-06-24 02:27:03 PM

Devo: One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.


If only it were possible to not commit crimes and get thrown in jail.  None of us are safe.
 
2014-06-24 02:27:44 PM

Devo: One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.


Here is how you sniff out bullshiat.

The population of the US is about 312 million, and roughly half are males, or about 156 million.

If you divide 156 by 18, you get about 8.67 million people "incarcerated".

If you check the US Census figures, though, the only way you can get close to that number is if you include people on parole and probation.
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0347.pdf

The actual number of people incarcerated in jail or prison is more like 2.3 million, and that includes males and females.
 
2014-06-24 02:27:57 PM

Cold_Sassy: Fark them and their "rights."


fark you and your rights.
 
2014-06-24 02:28:10 PM

durbnpoisn: I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this.

If I were an employer, I would absolutely do a little bit of checking before even interviewing.  It's entirely too costly to go through the entire process and find out that the potential candidate is a convicted felon.

That sort of thing is public record.  So, fine.  You're not allowed to ask.  Doesn't mean you're not allowed to check.
And you can make any friggin excuse in the universe as to why you didn't hire someone.

What I find more hypocritical than anything about this, is that if you have a felony on your record (in NJ), you are not allowed to hold gov't employment (or carry a gun, or vote, etc...).
So, THEY can deny someone employment for that.  But they demand that the private sector is not allowed any such rule.


That's a fairly counterproductive argument.  "Why can they discriminate and further ruin someone's life while I can't?"

I knew a kid in sixth grade whose entire philosophy was based on that.
 
2014-06-24 02:28:22 PM

laughin: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

THIS!

However, if I am hiring someone who drives, if they have a DUI that is an issue. Otherwise, I agree. We had someone apply for a job with my department. He was qualified to some degree, but boss REFUSED to even interview the guy because he had spent time in jail for stalking about five or more years ago when he was 18 or 19. Ridiculous.


so stalking is cool but dui is bad?
jk
 
2014-06-24 02:29:12 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Most people with shiat credit are the ones who had the poor task management of getting sick or injured.
 
2014-06-24 02:29:13 PM
Isn't this a pointless feel-good measure?  They can still run a background check I assume
 
2014-06-24 02:29:59 PM

UltimaCS: Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.

Most people with shiat credit are the ones who had the poor task management of getting sick or injured.


You're claiming that most people with bad credit only have bad credit due to illness or injury?

[Citation Needed]
 
2014-06-24 02:30:01 PM

laughin: Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.

Credit score is not. It means you have debt and make payments on time. I have a mortgage, but no other debt. A credit check is one thing, but don't base it on the score.


Exactly. Being in debt should be an indicator that you are untrustworthy, instead for some reason people believe its a good thing.

I have zero credit and zero debt, and its because I pay my bills on time and do not spend what I do not have. Yet somehow this is a negative in our society.
 
2014-06-24 02:30:06 PM

Cold_Sassy: Frankly, I feel the potential employer has every right to this particular tidbit of knowledge.  What is your spouse/son/daughter works there?  Recently in my region there was a case of a woman being murdered by a co-worker who was a 'former felon.'  Fark them and their "rights."


Actually, let me qualify this a little.  If you are a non-violent offender, then O.K.  But if you've been convicted of Murder, Rape, Child Molestation, and any other violent crime (including against animals) then fark you.
 
2014-06-24 02:30:57 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Mmmm...not always.  While I would agree that an argument could be made for credit checks as a prequalification for emplyment, there are unfortunately many instances where a credit check could give an inaccurate picture of a person's work ethic and/or ability to perform a task.

Plus there's always this problem:

1. Lose job to lay-offs.
2. Fall behind on bills less important than mortgage, food, etc...
3. Attempt to find a job.
4. Become disqulaified from most jobs due to step 2.
5. Goto step 2.  Welcome to loop hell.

/I would never use "goto" IRL
 
2014-06-24 02:30:58 PM
You too, Subby? And i thought I was the only one.
 
2014-06-24 02:31:47 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Yes...like the ability to save money and pay cash rather than with credit, thus allowing for a low credit score.
 
2014-06-24 02:31:58 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


....and being convicted of a crime indicates your ability to handle unfortunate circumstances...sort of.
 
2014-06-24 02:32:05 PM

Cold_Sassy: Frankly, I feel the potential employer has every right to this particular tidbit of knowledge.  What is your spouse/son/daughter works there?  Recently in my region there was a case of a woman being murdered by a co-worker who was a 'former felon.'  Fark them and their "rights."


Appeal to emotion. Logically ex convicts who cannot get a legit job and live legally turn to the only option they have. Going back to crime. It's in societies best interest to allow people who made mistakes to have a second chance (within reason. I'm not saying we should hire the child molesters to run daycare)
 
2014-06-24 02:32:34 PM

dittybopper: Devo: One in Eighteen US males is incarcerated. source wikipedia.

Here is how you sniff out bullshiat.

The population of the US is about 312 million, and roughly half are males, or about 156 million.

If you divide 156 by 18, you get about 8.67 million people "incarcerated".

If you check the US Census figures, though, the only way you can get close to that number is if you include people on parole and probation.
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0347.pdf

The actual number of people incarcerated in jail or prison is more like 2.3 million, and that includes males and females.


I think you might need to recheck your math, and your overall perspective.
 
2014-06-24 02:33:17 PM

CruJones: Isn't this a pointless feel-good measure?  They can still run a background check I assume


You-betcha boieee.
 
2014-06-24 02:33:54 PM

UltimaCS: Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.

Most people with shiat credit are the ones who had the poor task management of getting sick or injured.


Yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that.
 
2014-06-24 02:34:43 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


Please explain.
 
2014-06-24 02:34:52 PM

thamike: durbnpoisn: I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this.

If I were an employer, I would absolutely do a little bit of checking before even interviewing.  It's entirely too costly to go through the entire process and find out that the potential candidate is a convicted felon.

That sort of thing is public record.  So, fine.  You're not allowed to ask.  Doesn't mean you're not allowed to check.
And you can make any friggin excuse in the universe as to why you didn't hire someone.

What I find more hypocritical than anything about this, is that if you have a felony on your record (in NJ), you are not allowed to hold gov't employment (or carry a gun, or vote, etc...).
So, THEY can deny someone employment for that.  But they demand that the private sector is not allowed any such rule.

That's a fairly counterproductive argument.  "Why can they discriminate and further ruin someone's life while I can't?"



I don't exactly think it's the same thing as descrimination.
If you are an employer that needs to (just as an example) trust someone with money, you don't want a felon who was convicted of robbery working for you.

Discrimination implies that you are purposely holding something from someone based on something they can't help.  Like race, for instance.  But a felon?  Uh, that's pretty much a bad life choice.

If you want to hire someone who's been in jail, give them another chance, more power to you.  That's your choice.  There is obviously no problem with that.  But the gov't has no right to tell you who you have to hire.  And they are certainly no good at defining descrimination.  And it IS a double standard considering they don't have to follow that rule.
 
2014-06-24 02:35:05 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Cold_Sassy: Fark them and their "rights."

fark you and your rights.


I see you've been convicted of something.  Congratulations.
 
2014-06-24 02:35:18 PM
Pair murderers with the most annoying employees on the floor. Put down stain-proof carpet. Practice looking surprised for the inevitable press conference.

"I believe in giving people second chances. I had no idea Manson would take a dislike to Foul-Mouthed Willy."
 
2014-06-24 02:35:37 PM
I'm guessing the stat is "1 in 18 men will be incarcerated at some point in their life".  Sounds highly plausible.
 
2014-06-24 02:35:37 PM

Mr. Eugenides: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

Why?  Your credit score is a very good indicator of your ability to manage tasks well.


I've read a lot of things on fark, but this by far is the dumbest sentence any farker has ever typed.
 
2014-06-24 02:36:09 PM
You don't have to hire them without doing a background check.  You just aren't allowed to ask on their application.  They just want people to get a chance to get interviewed on their qualifications.  It's a good idea.
 
2014-06-24 02:36:13 PM
I don't see what buisness the government has dictating what an employer can or cannot ask.

Credit Checks are certainly worth doing if your job involves handlign large amounts of cash.

And as for criminal background checks, what employer hiring a position of respnsibility wants to employ a criminal?
 
2014-06-24 02:37:12 PM
 
2014-06-24 02:37:50 PM
Man, the judge threw the book at us for that one, right Subs?
 
2014-06-24 02:38:05 PM

Yellow Beard: laughin: SecretAgentWoman: They need to make it illegal to do credit checks.

THIS!

However, if I am hiring someone who drives, if they have a DUI that is an issue. Otherwise, I agree. We had someone apply for a job with my department. He was qualified to some degree, but boss REFUSED to even interview the guy because he had spent time in jail for stalking about five or more years ago when he was 18 or 19. Ridiculous.

so stalking is cool but dui is bad?
jk


DUI bad if you drive. But let me qualify and say you had a DUI years ago, maybe not such a big deal. It's like sex offenders, we see that they are listed as a sex offender without looking to see if maybe it was a case of a 18 year old with at 15 year old girlfriend. We are so knee-jerk in our responses.
 
2014-06-24 02:38:25 PM

Cold_Sassy: I see you've been convicted of something. Congratulations.


Nothing more than a couple traffic tickets. I also am not good friends with any convicts, and don't have any family members I care much about who are convicts. Try again.
 
2014-06-24 02:40:02 PM

Warlordtrooper: Cold_Sassy: Frankly, I feel the potential employer has every right to this particular tidbit of knowledge.  What is your spouse/son/daughter works there?  Recently in my region there was a case of a woman being murdered by a co-worker who was a 'former felon.'  Fark them and their "rights."

Appeal to emotion. Logically ex convicts who cannot get a legit job and live legally turn to the only option they have. Going back to crime. It's in societies best interest to allow people who made mistakes to have a second chance (within reason. I'm not saying we should hire the child molesters to run daycare)


Too logical. What are you, new?
 
2014-06-24 02:41:52 PM

laughin: However, if I am hiring someone who drives, if they have a DUI that is an issue.


Bona fide safety requirements will get an exception, just like they have for other non-discrimination laws we've implemented. It's still legal to not hire someone without legs as a firefighter. And it's already possible to separately investigate a driving record from a criminal record.

But you really might want to check the math first, for this or any other administrative barrier you impose on applicants. It's possible that checking for DUIs will help reduce the risk your drivers pose. It's certainly a reasonable theory, as we do see recidivism in DUI convictions. But it's also possible past DUI convictions have no impact on future work-related driving safety (or have no impact after X years, or have no impact on daytime driving), in which case you're paying extra and discriminating for something that doesn't make your life any better.
 
2014-06-24 02:42:16 PM

CruJones: Isn't this a pointless feel-good measure?  They can still run a background check I assume


Is the NFL's Roony rule pointless?  Seems like "a pointless feel-good measure" at first glance, but it had a fast, dramatic effect.  Getting a chance to talk to a prospective employer and show them that you are different from what their preconceptions might tell them is a valuable opportunity.

And it's certainly better for our society (and cheaper for taxpayers) if people who are willing and able to work are given the chance, rather than being relegated to depending on welfare, charity, and/or crime.
 
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