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(Politico)   Issa vs. the Greenback Whale. Part 2: Moby Dickishness   (politico.com) divider line 128
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1800 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jun 2014 at 10:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-24 08:39:03 AM  
And the GOP knows a thing or two about making emails disappear.
 
2014-06-24 08:53:48 AM  
i don't understand this, email is stored on servers, and on the systems of other people who received said emails.  if the emails ever existed they still exist somewhere.
 
2014-06-24 08:55:38 AM  
Why doesn't Issa subpoena IBM?  I mean, that's who he blamed when the last White House lost 22 million important emails during an investigation.

Witch Hunt or partisan memory loss?  So hard to tell!
 
2014-06-24 09:06:23 AM  
I don't understand this kerfuffle. Donations to political candidates and committees are not allowed as tax deductions. Also not allowed are donations to otherwise non-political organizations to the extent that the money is used for political activities. If Republicans could agree with the administration on this one point, the investigations would move more smoothly.
 
2014-06-24 09:09:05 AM  

Delay: I don't understand this kerfuffle. Donations to political candidates and committees are not allowed as tax deductions. Also not allowed are donations to otherwise non-political organizations to the extent that the money is used for political activities. If Republicans could agree with the administration on this one point, the investigations would move more smoothly.


In order to make shake the stink of partisan targeting off themselves, the GOP has to make it look like the other guy is guilty of their sins.

A variation on Rove.  But it's a much older tactic, really.
 
2014-06-24 09:47:35 AM  

doublesecretprobation: i don't understand this, email is stored on servers, and on the systems of other people who received said emails.  if the emails ever existed they still exist somewhere.


you assume they are following FINRA 6 year retention policies? A large portion of the government still uses Lotus Notes because they underbid Microsoft. I'd be surprised if they had 3 month retention server side
 
2014-06-24 10:11:04 AM  

zedster: doublesecretprobation: i don't understand this, email is stored on servers, and on the systems of other people who received said emails.  if the emails ever existed they still exist somewhere.

you assume they are following FINRA 6 year retention policies? A large portion of the government still uses Lotus Notes because they underbid Microsoft. I'd be surprised if they had 3 month retention server side


I'd be surprised if anyone could actually send or receive an email.
 
2014-06-24 10:17:11 AM  
the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.
 
2014-06-24 10:21:38 AM  

FlashHarry: the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.


Why is it so hard for you libtardos to understand that Obama uses the time machine to provide cover for his people, too, and not just himself?
 
2014-06-24 10:36:57 AM  
Darryl ISSA is the ISIS of America. He's pissed off that the last Sunni leader in power was dismissed as a war criminal, and will do everything to destroy and shut down the elected Shia leader, all the while saying how much he loves God and Country.
 
2014-06-24 10:56:10 AM  

Delay: I don't understand this kerfuffle. Donations to political candidates and committees are not allowed as tax deductions. Also not allowed are donations to otherwise non-political organizations to the extent that the money is used for political activities. If Republicans could agree with the administration on this one point, the investigations would move more smoothly.


Well, since Benghazi failed to help Issa, he has to switch to emailhazi instead.
 
2014-06-24 10:56:24 AM  

Kevin72: Darryl ISSA is the ISIS of America. He's pissed off that the last Sunni leader in power was dismissed as a war criminal, and will do everything to destroy and shut down the elected Shia leader, all the while saying how much he loves God and Country.


All while listening to Kenny Loggins
 
2014-06-24 10:56:57 AM  
All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Issa, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Barack Obama.
 
2014-06-24 10:57:47 AM  

Delay: If Republicans could agree with the administration


Well, there's your problem.
 
2014-06-24 10:58:22 AM  

FlashHarry: the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.


Oh, come on, you're not thinking with conspiracy theorist portals.  Obviously that just means she knew earlier.  And started hiding evidence before the scandal broke.  That she knew it would, because she was intentionally being evil.
 
2014-06-24 10:59:04 AM  
Call me Isshmael.
 
2014-06-24 11:03:33 AM  

Almet: Kevin72: Darryl ISSA is the ISIS of America. He's pissed off that the last Sunni leader in power was dismissed as a war criminal, and will do everything to destroy and shut down the elected Shia leader, all the while saying how much he loves God and Country.

All while listening to Kenny Loggins


Danger Zone? Are we doing that still?
 
2014-06-24 11:05:13 AM  

doublesecretprobation: i don't understand this, email is stored on servers, and on the systems of other people who received said emails.  if the emails ever existed they still exist somewhere.


If the mail administrators imposed a quota on server space used for stored emails, requiring users to archive mails locally to reduce server space used, then the emails may no longer exist on a server and may have been lost if the only archived location for them was destroyed.

I am employed by an institution subject to Freedom of Information Act requests. Despite a supposed three-year record retention policy, users were subject to a 200MB mailbox quota and users were expected to archive older messages to reduce server usage. By default, email archives were configured to be saved to the filesystem of the computer on which the mail client was running (which caused issues with archive fragmentation for users of multiple computers, and which caused file access problems because the default directory was off of the C: root where users did not have write access by default). A hard drive crash would destroy any and all archived email unless a backup existed or unless the user had manually changed the location of their archive to a network location. Few departments regularly backed up email archives, and fewer had access to sufficient network-hosted storage for email archiving. This policy only changed in 2012, implemented with the switch to a new mail system.

I was at one time responsible for providing data to a local news media company as part of a legal request. After submitting an archive of a user's hard drive to them, I was asked for the information needed to decrypt the user's email archive, and I had to inform them that I was not a mail administrator and thus I had no means of decrypting the files. I do not know if they were ever able to access the archived mails.
 
2014-06-24 11:08:03 AM  
"These documents are teeming with evidence...."
/not obscure to fellow DeMolays.
cdn.frontpagemag.com
 
2014-06-24 11:10:04 AM  
Jobs? Jobs? Jobs?
 
2014-06-24 11:12:24 AM  
Aren't almost all of the emails accounted for, since SHE HAD TO FARKING SEND THEM TO OTHERS!
 
2014-06-24 11:16:39 AM  

meat0918: Aren't almost all of the emails accounted for, since SHE HAD TO FARKING SEND THEM TO OTHERS!


But her hard drive crashed and they followed SOP, and furthermore...
 
2014-06-24 11:18:54 AM  

meat0918: Aren't almost all of the emails accounted for, since SHE HAD TO FARKING SEND THEM TO OTHERS!


Yeah, but conveniently all the really juicy ones mysteriously disappeared.

/and by "conveniently," I mean, in my very best Andy Dufresne, "Since I am innocent of this crime I find it decidedly inconvenient."
//And by "mysteriously," I mean "pretty understandably."
 
2014-06-24 11:19:09 AM  
It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.
 
2014-06-24 11:20:49 AM  

Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.


FTFY
 
2014-06-24 11:22:19 AM  

Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.


Nor do they want to. Witch hunts require a witch, or at least the threat of one.
 
2014-06-24 11:23:40 AM  

FlashHarry: the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.


The Daily Beast is pointing to the TIGTA report that states that on June 29th, 2011, the Director, EO (Lois Lerner) held a meeting in which a briefing paper was presented. The Daily Beast is claiming that this was the first day that Lerner was made aware of the targeting.

Chairman Dave Camp of Ways and Means sent a letter to then IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman on June 10th that outlined his concerns that the IRS was using targeting. The Daily Beast would have us believe that it took Commissioner Shulman 19 days to inform Lois Lerner (the Director of the Unit responsible) of the targeting that was going on in her unit.

I'm sorry, but that's the most laughable assertion that I have heard coming out of this scandal. Considering that the TIGTA report clearly states that the briefing paper that was presented at the meeting on 6/29 was prepared by Tax Law Specialists and reviewed prior to being disseminated at the meeting. So the Daily Beast would have us believe that low level staffers knew of the targeting before the Director, EO. That they would have known about the targeting many days prior to the 6/29 meeting in order to perform research, prepare the briefing paper, and have it reviewed before distributing it in the meeting. That these low level staffers and reviewers knew days before the Director, EO, is so far beyond the pale as to be completely insulting to intelligence.

The Daily Beast may be banking on the fact that not a lot of people click through links, especially when the link is a dry report from TIGTA. If what the Daily Beast says is true, then I for one am glad that Lerner is no longer with the IRS, as that would indicate that she is incompetent to the point that her underlings feel it is ok to run these BOLOs without her knowledge. It would also indicate that Doug Shulman was also incompetent to the point of not informing the Director of the unit in question as to the investigation and concerns raised by Chairman Camp.
 
2014-06-24 11:24:08 AM  

Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.


Me, I'm just hoping Congress passes a records-retention law that isn't more facially dysfunctional than Bell's Palsy.
 
2014-06-24 11:24:43 AM  

meat0918: Aren't almost all of the emails accounted for, since SHE HAD TO FARKING SEND THEM TO OTHERS!


All of the ones internal to the IRS, yes. What Issa is scrounging for are emails sent from Lerner to individuals outside the IRS.
 
2014-06-24 11:26:15 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.

Me, I'm just hoping Congress passes a records-retention law that isn't more facially dysfunctional than Bell's Palsy.


I'm hoping Congress ponies up the dough for the requisite infrastructure to implement that records-retention law.

/Also hoping for a bailout from Congress
//See which one happens first
 
2014-06-24 11:28:05 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.

Me, I'm just hoping Congress passes a records-retention law that isn't more facially dysfunctional than Bell's Palsy.


My guess is House will pass a records-retention law and not only will they not provide the funding to pay for the additional equipment required to adhere to said law they will cut the IRS information technology budget because reasons and further more.
 
2014-06-24 11:28:19 AM  

Phoenix87ta: Dr Dreidel: Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.

Me, I'm just hoping Congress passes a records-retention law that isn't more facially dysfunctional than Bell's Palsy.

I'm hoping Congress ponies up the dough for the requisite infrastructure to implement that records-retention law.

/Also hoping for a bailout from Congress
//See which one happens first


Never happen. How would they be able to grandstand about "missing" emails if they let the IRS to have an effective storage system?
 
2014-06-24 11:28:34 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Diogenes: Why doesn't Issa subpoena IBM?  I mean, that's who he blamed when the last White House lost 22 million important emails during an investigation.

Witch Hunt or partisan memory loss?  So hard to tell!

Memory-parity problems are no joke. Maybe Issa needs new RAM.

// I offer my services to RAM him, in the face, for roughly 24 hours (with meal and bathroom breaks)
// with a brick


Not sure how much more Dimm he can get
 
2014-06-24 11:28:35 AM  
portside.org
 
2014-06-24 11:28:54 AM  

max_pooper: Dr Dreidel: Phoenix87ta: It's almost like nobody involved in this fiasco has even the slightest clue how computers work.

Me, I'm just hoping Congress passes a records-retention law that isn't more facially dysfunctional than Bell's Palsy.

My guess is House will pass a records-retention law and not only will they not provide the funding to pay for the additional equipment required to adhere to said law they will cut the IRS information technology budget because reasons and further more.


And defund Obamacare
 
2014-06-24 11:29:22 AM  
You mean the same Issa who narrowed the "investigation" to only include conservative groups?
 
2014-06-24 11:30:43 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: If what the Daily Beast says is true, then I for one am glad that Lerner is no longer with the IRS, as that would indicate that she is incompetent to the point that her underlings feel it is ok to run these BOLOs without her knowledge.


from the IG report:
the Determinations Unit developed and implemented inappropriate criteria in part due to insufficient oversight provided by management. Specifically, only first-line management approved references to the Tea Party in the BOLO listing criteria before it was implemented. As a result, inappropriate criteria remained in place for more than 18 months.

[...]

After being briefed on the expanded criteria in June 2011, the Director, EO, immediately directed that the criteria be changed. In July 2011, the criteria were changed to focus on the potential "political, lobbying, or [general] advocacy" activities of the organization. These criteria were an improvement over using organization names and policy positions. However, the team of specialists subsequently changed the criteria in January 2012 without executive approval because they believed the July 2011 criteria were too broad. The January 2012 criteria again focused on the policy positions of organizations instead of tax-exempt laws and Treasury Regulations.
 
2014-06-24 11:34:03 AM  
Clearly a coverup. If they REALLY wanted to co-operate with the investigation they'd ask the NSA to furnish them with copies of the lost data.
 
2014-06-24 11:34:45 AM  

sprawl15: the Determinations Unit developed and implemented inappropriate criteria in part due to insufficient oversight provided by management.


Thanks for proving my point. the TIGTA report specifically calls out these BOLOs being implemented "in part due to insufficient oversight provided by management."

Then "the team of specialists subsequently changed the criteria in January 2012 without executive approval because they believed the July 2011 criteria were too broad."

This team of specialists was going around making policy without the input or direction of their Director. Why they felt they could implement these policies even after being smacked down by Lerner is a testament to her managerial skills.

So I reiterate, if true, then I am glad she is gone as she could not handle her duties as Director, EO.
 
2014-06-24 11:35:01 AM  
This dude can't investigate his way out of a paper bag. If he had just given Lerner immunity, he might have had something to work with. At this point he's just parading around his own failure and the public just isn't fired up about the allegations.

This started out with them saying the constitution had been sexually assaulted and there was a massive conspiracy to silence political groups and they're going to walk away with the IRS has shiatty records retention. Great.
 
2014-06-24 11:36:03 AM  
I wish one of the IRS witnesses would go up to the witness stand and say "Are you suggesting that we intentionally destroyed the hard drive, as if we were torching a warehouse full of car alarms?  Who would do such a thing?"
 
2014-06-24 11:37:43 AM  
Link


Raise your right hand," Rep. Darrell Issa ordered IRS Commissioner John Koskinen on Monday night.
Koskinen raised his right hand to the usual position.
"A little higher," Issa commanded.
Laughter rippled through the hearing room.
Issa glared down from the dais.


Shut up, Issa, you cock.
 
2014-06-24 11:38:30 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Thanks for proving my point.


your point being that you have no farking idea what you're talking about but refuse to let your own ignorance and unwillingness to put in even a modicum of research prevent you from being furious at boogeymen on the internet?

no problemo, any time

HotWingConspiracy: This started out with them saying the constitution had been sexually assaulted


Hey, Uncle Sam put your name at the top of his list,
And the Statue of Liberty started shaking her fist.
And the eagle will fly and it's gonna be hell,
When you hear Mother Freedom start ringing her bell.
 
2014-06-24 11:39:15 AM  

FlashHarry: the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.


Devil's Advocate: There's a possible scenario where she was involved with it before the crash, the crash happens, and then after the crash she pretends to discover the BOLOs being put out by the Cincinnati field office and asks for a change for plausible deniability.

Of course, this doesn't make any sense considering all intra-office e-mails were restored quickly so any communications with the Cincinnati field office would be part of the e-mails provided to the committee (unless they intentionally deleted e-mails before the crash in which case why fake the crash?) and there are no records of any communications between herself and the Executive Office of the President (which legally requires far more secure data management) during that time period related to any sort of determinations of 501 status it seems highly unlikely there is anything implicating Lerner in the formulation of the BOLOs.
 
2014-06-24 11:40:53 AM  

Grungehamster: FlashHarry: the funny thing is, her computer crashed 16 days before she learned of the IRS targeting. so those emails would be useless to issa.

but of course their absence is good fundraising fodder.

Devil's Advocate: There's a possible scenario where she was involved with it before the crash, the crash happens, and then after the crash she pretends to discover the BOLOs being put out by the Cincinnati field office and asks for a change for plausible deniability.

Of course, this doesn't make any sense considering all intra-office e-mails were restored quickly so any communications with the Cincinnati field office would be part of the e-mails provided to the committee (unless they intentionally deleted e-mails before the crash in which case why fake the crash?) and there are no records of any communications between herself and the Executive Office of the President (which legally requires far more secure data management) during that time period related to any sort of determinations of 501 status it seems highly unlikely there is anything implicating Lerner in the formulation of the BOLOs.


The lack of evidence is in fact evidence of the cover up.
 
2014-06-24 11:40:56 AM  
IRS, Fast and Furious, Solyndra, NSA spying, Iraq mess, Benghazi and on and on.

As Jame Joyce would say, Obama is the nightmare from which we are trying to awake.
 
2014-06-24 11:41:31 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: This dude can't investigate his way out of a paper bag. If he had just given Lerner immunity, he might have had something to work with. At this point he's just parading around his own failure and the public just isn't fired up about the allegations.


You see, the problem with this is the most likely outcome is Loius Lerner says "Yeah I farked up, the administration had nothing to d with it, and to be honest, I don't even think I farked up..."  Then Issa's investigation implodes hilariously.  he know this so he has to keep up with the innuendo.  If he thought there was any chance in hell of getting a big fish in the administration he wouldhave offered immunity and forced lerner to testify.
 
2014-06-24 11:45:33 AM  

sprawl15: your point being that you have no farking idea what you're talking about but refuse to let your own ignorance and unwillingness to put in even a modicum of research prevent you from being furious at boogeymen on the internet?

no problemo, any time


I said that Lerner appeared to be incompetent and you provided information from the IG's report that shows that Lerner was incompetent and unable to manage her own unit and you accuse me of ignorance? That's hilarious. Did you even bother to read the snippet that you provided? Lerner told her team to change the criteria, but they felt that she was being overly broad, so they changed it again, without her approval. This leads me to believe that her team had no faith in her abilities to carry out her job functions.

And that modicum of research that you say I didn't do exposed more information about the Daily Beast story than the "story" itself. If you want to rail against someone for not doing a modicum of research, rail against the Daily Beast for writing an entire story based on a faulty premise.
 
2014-06-24 11:45:49 AM  

Stile4aly: I wish one of the IRS witnesses would go up to the witness stand and say "Are you suggesting that we intentionally destroyed the hard drive, as if we were torching a warehouse full of car alarms?  Who would do such a thing?"


Seriously! Why do the people going before these committees not treat them with the scorn, derision, and snarky replies they so rightly deserve? Issa is being a cock, everyone testifying knows it, why won't they call him on it? Just pull away the curtains and expose this for the farking joke that it is.
 
2014-06-24 11:46:00 AM  

Agneska: IRS, Fast and Furious, Solyndra, NSA spying, Iraq mess, Benghazi and on and on.

As Jame Joyce would say, Obama is the nightmare from which we are trying to awake.


Made up, made up, financial planning mistake, actual problem, net casting, made up, and nothing else.

Oh no, when you invent problems, they seem like a nightmare.  If you want to wake up, I'd advise stop trying to invent a fictional nightmare.
 
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