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(Some credit Guy)   Taking a tour inside the secret facility that prints your new smart-chip-enabled credit card? Make sure to turn in your cell phone and don your lab coat with no pockets   (blog.credit.com) divider line 32
    More: Interesting, credit cards, action plans, lab coats, security breaches, armored trucks, credit card numbers, issuing bank, secrets  
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1969 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jun 2014 at 4:01 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-24 02:59:06 PM
Got mine last week. Had to talk my bank into getting to mine to me six months ahead of their schedule since I'm going to Europe soon. Last trip, I ran into places that couldn't handle non-chipped cards.

Good to see good 'ol "We're #1" USA catching up to Europe again.
 
2014-06-24 04:02:36 PM
I've had a chip in my credit card for years.
 
2014-06-24 04:07:30 PM
damn, i just got cards in january
 
2014-06-24 04:14:24 PM

loonatic112358: damn, i just got cards in january


You can lose a card any time you want to.
 
2014-06-24 04:16:49 PM

Radak: loonatic112358: damn, i just got cards in january

You can lose a card any time you want to.


"The damn magstripe keeps refusing to read!"
/puts magnets taken out of hard drives away
 
2014-06-24 04:20:32 PM

edmo: Got mine last week. Had to talk my bank into getting to mine to me six months ahead of their schedule since I'm going to Europe soon. Last trip, I ran into places that couldn't handle non-chipped cards.

Good to see good 'ol "We're #1" USA catching up to Europe again.


Went to Europe (London, Dublin, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid) last year and found only about 20% of places could even take non-chipped cards. When they did, they had to call a manager over to swipe them old-school style.
 
2014-06-24 04:26:51 PM
So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?
 
GBB
2014-06-24 04:27:15 PM

edmo: Got mine last week. Had to talk my bank into getting to mine to me six months ahead of their schedule since I'm going to Europe soon. Last trip, I ran into places that couldn't handle non-chipped cards.

Good to see good 'ol "We're #1" USA catching up to Europe again.


Quite a few years ago, late 90s I think, AmEx came out with a chipped card and a chip reader for your PC that used a serial connection (pre or early USB days).  I did a little search on it and from what I remember, someone owned the patent on it and tried leasing it out for unrealistic amounts.  AmEx worked out some deal hoping that the rest of the US industry would adopt it.  Eventually, AmEx canceled it.  The article said something to the effect that since the patent holder had 3 options, 1) sell or lease the patents, 2) utilize the patents by manufacturing the chips themself, or 3) allow the patent to expire.

Looks like it was Option 3.
 
2014-06-24 04:28:15 PM
I'm using "Tap n Pay" more and more often. There aren't a lot of stores that have that capability though. I imagine that when they're all forced to upgrade to support the new chip cards that other forms will come along for the ride.
 
2014-06-24 04:34:40 PM
The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?

At the same time, the cards are oriented sideways and the numbers & name are merely printed on instead of being raised, but that's separate from the chip issue.
 
2014-06-24 04:36:01 PM

HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?


Part of it was there wasn't a whole ton of large scale fraud until recently and part of it is point of sale compatibility.

The consumer doesn't care whether there's a chip or not, the bank might actually prefer it (since it is more secure), but the merchants didn't want to swap out their POS terminals for ones that can handle chips.

Now, with all of these incidents, the banks and issuers are sick of this bullshiat and are informing merchants that after a certain date (Oct 2015, as near as I can tell) they will assume all responsibility for transactions done with a mag stripe instead of a chip. You don't want to upgrade, fine, but if somebody screws you then you own that piece of fraud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015- th e-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/
 
2014-06-24 04:37:02 PM

HopScotchNSoda: The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?


I think so. I believe one of our cards (it's a World Elite MasterCard) has a chip, but it isn't visible. I'm not certain there's a chip in there but I think there is.
 
2014-06-24 04:45:57 PM

akula: HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?

Part of it was there wasn't a whole ton of large scale fraud until recently and part of it is point of sale compatibility.

The consumer doesn't care whether there's a chip or not, the bank might actually prefer it (since it is more secure), but the merchants didn't want to swap out their POS terminals for ones that can handle chips.

Now, with all of these incidents, the banks and issuers are sick of this bullshiat and are informing merchants that after a certain date (Oct 2015, as near as I can tell) they will assume all responsibility for transactions done with a mag stripe instead of a chip. You don't want to upgrade, fine, but if somebody screws you then you own that piece of fraud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015- th e-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/



OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?
 
2014-06-24 04:52:29 PM

akula: HopScotchNSoda: The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?

I think so. I believe one of our cards (it's a World Elite MasterCard) has a chip, but it isn't visible. I'm not certain there's a chip in there but I think there is.



I wonder if that is more to protect the chip, or so conspiracy nutters and low-protestant Jesus nutters don't notice the chips and go ape-shiat about tracking and the mark of the beast. Not that it is an either-or thing; I just wonder which was the bigger factor in going with what I presume is an added manufacturing cost.
 
2014-06-24 04:56:23 PM
Well, our fine media has been harping on chips being remotely readable.  Anyone with a reader just beeps and your card is read.  You've been hacked!1!!  Take a hole punch clip that sucker right out.

I had to explain the the in-laws that, no, there isn't a risk.  Put down that hole punch.  I don't care what Nightline says on the TV.
 
2014-06-24 04:58:35 PM

akula: HopScotchNSoda: The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?

I think so. I believe one of our cards (it's a World Elite MasterCard) has a chip, but it isn't visible. I'm not certain there's a chip in there but I think there is.


If it isn't visible then it isn't going to work in the standard "chip and pin" or "chip and signature" readers common in Europe. The visible portion are metal contacts used by the readers to interface with the chip.

Perhaps your card's chip is for "tap and pay" technology (there are no mechanical connections with that technology).

Just returned from three weeks in Europe.  Our USAA chip and pin Master Card made things much easier than the last time we were in Europe.
 
2014-06-24 05:31:54 PM

HopScotchNSoda: akula: HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?

Part of it was there wasn't a whole ton of large scale fraud until recently and part of it is point of sale compatibility.

The consumer doesn't care whether there's a chip or not, the bank might actually prefer it (since it is more secure), but the merchants didn't want to swap out their POS terminals for ones that can handle chips.

Now, with all of these incidents, the banks and issuers are sick of this bullshiat and are informing merchants that after a certain date (Oct 2015, as near as I can tell) they will assume all responsibility for transactions done with a mag stripe instead of a chip. You don't want to upgrade, fine, but if somebody screws you then you own that piece of fraud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015- th e-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/


OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?


I've had a chip card for years here in Canada.  So its not so much Western Hemispherey.  I am actually not a big fan of them due to the chip wearing out a lot faster than the strips did.  Not amused by trying to make a purchase only to find I have to make a trip to the bank for yet another replacement card first.
 
2014-06-24 05:44:13 PM
OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?

It's a U.S. thing, Canada was one of the earliest adopters.  The U.S. has been a bit more complicated as there were a larger number of banks, payment processors (merchant acquirers) and retailers that all needed to get onboard.  At this point, the bank/switch infrastructure is all in place but the POS equipment (credit card terminals) still needs to be replaced.

The biggest obstacle hasn't been technical though... It's that the banks are so scared shiatless of upsetting retailers/consumers by forcing them to change out their POS equipment/learn how to use a PIN on their VISA/MC that they'd rather eat the losses from fraud and maintain the status quo.
 
2014-06-24 06:36:19 PM

HopScotchNSoda: akula: HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?

Part of it was there wasn't a whole ton of large scale fraud until recently and part of it is point of sale compatibility.

The consumer doesn't care whether there's a chip or not, the bank might actually prefer it (since it is more secure), but the merchants didn't want to swap out their POS terminals for ones that can handle chips.

Now, with all of these incidents, the banks and issuers are sick of this bullshiat and are informing merchants that after a certain date (Oct 2015, as near as I can tell) they will assume all responsibility for transactions done with a mag stripe instead of a chip. You don't want to upgrade, fine, but if somebody screws you then you own that piece of fraud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015- th e-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/


OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?


We've had them in Canada for years. I honestly didn't know the US was so far behind.
 
2014-06-24 06:43:33 PM
been there, done that.
did it for a living once long ago.


tech's been around for years.
the US is just catching up.


but the scanning ability of criminals are getting faster & better.
they'll need to change quick...losses are mounting.
 
2014-06-24 07:36:20 PM

HopScotchNSoda: akula: HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?

Part of it was there wasn't a whole ton of large scale fraud until recently and part of it is point of sale compatibility.

The consumer doesn't care whether there's a chip or not, the bank might actually prefer it (since it is more secure), but the merchants didn't want to swap out their POS terminals for ones that can handle chips.

Now, with all of these incidents, the banks and issuers are sick of this bullshiat and are informing merchants that after a certain date (Oct 2015, as near as I can tell) they will assume all responsibility for transactions done with a mag stripe instead of a chip. You don't want to upgrade, fine, but if somebody screws you then you own that piece of fraud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015- th e-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/


OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?


Eastern Europeans.
 
2014-06-24 08:59:01 PM

null: Radak: loonatic112358: damn, i just got cards in january

You can lose a card any time you want to.

"The damn magstripe keeps refusing to read!"
/puts magnets taken out of hard drives away


Magnets out of electro-fanclutches are really powerful.  Like for the cooling fan on a diesel or gas engine:dgzmd7u6z2by7.cloudfront.net
 
2014-06-24 09:08:30 PM
I like better security, but how does this work with online purchases?
 
2014-06-24 09:10:09 PM

Raoul Eaton: I like better security, but how does this work with online purchases?


No difference whatsoever.
 
2014-06-24 09:11:20 PM

akula: HopScotchNSoda: The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?

I think so. I believe one of our cards (it's a World Elite MasterCard) has a chip, but it isn't visible. I'm not certain there's a chip in there but I think there is.


If there is, it should have this (probably minus the big circle, hand and little card ie: just the four backwards c's) symbol on the back side of the card.  Last I checked, only one of my cards had it.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-24 09:49:03 PM

HopScotchNSoda: So what was the reason (or what were the reasons) why American card issuers resisted going chipped for so many years after Europe and Japan had adopted chips, anyway?


Because, at least until the recent high-profile breaches, replacing all that magstripe equipment would be bad for this quarter's profits.
 
2014-06-24 09:51:24 PM
I saw where in Singapore, they go the chipped VISA card one better: the card has a 3-year battery in it and an LCD, plus menu buttons that can make the card act like an ATM terminal,  give you a current balance or let you make intra-account transfers, change the PIN or create a one-time PIN  so you can loan the card out to a relative to go down to the store or whatnot... all kinds of things.
 
2014-06-24 09:57:32 PM

JavaGuy: akula: HopScotchNSoda: The chips in the new MasterCard branded Ventra cards that the Chicago Transit Authority recently switched to are buried within the card, and aren't visible. Is this common now?

I think so. I believe one of our cards (it's a World Elite MasterCard) has a chip, but it isn't visible. I'm not certain there's a chip in there but I think there is.

If it isn't visible then it isn't going to work in the standard "chip and pin" or "chip and signature" readers common in Europe. The visible portion are metal contacts used by the readers to interface with the chip.

Perhaps your card's chip is for "tap and pay" technology (there are no mechanical connections with that technology).

Just returned from three weeks in Europe.  Our USAA chip and pin Master Card made things much easier than the last time we were in Europe.


One other bit of trivia: the contact-type chips use the same basic technology and contact arrangement as a GSM cell phone SIM card. In fact, if you ever buy a SIM, it is usually in a credit-card size frame with breakouts for mini and micro sizes. The earliest SIMs were the full credit card size.
 
2014-06-24 10:41:09 PM
I find a lot of places in Europe solved this problem by never taking credit cards in the first place. Not big on receipts either.
 
2014-06-25 09:03:27 AM

jdawg3k: OK, let me turn the question around. Why did card-issuers in Europe and Japan adopt chip technology so many years ago while card-issuers in the Western Hemisphere didn't feel the need to do so?

It's a U.S. thing, Canada was one of the earliest adopters.  The U.S. has been a bit more complicated as there were a larger number of banks, payment processors (merchant acquirers) and retailers that all needed to get onboard.  At this point, the bank/switch infrastructure is all in place but the POS equipment (credit card terminals) still needs to be replaced.

The biggest obstacle hasn't been technical though... It's that the banks are so scared shiatless of upsetting retailers/consumers by forcing them to change out their POS equipment/learn how to use a PIN on their VISA/MC that they'd rather eat the losses from fraud and maintain the status quo.


^^This. Anyone who's ever worked retail with elderly will tell you the nightmare of "I don't have a pin, but I want cash back."
 
2014-06-25 11:53:12 AM
Does it really count as a secret facility if you can take a tour of it?
 
2014-06-25 02:51:43 PM

anfrind: Raoul Eaton: I like better security, but how does this work with online purchases?

No difference whatsoever.


THIS.

67% of all credit card fraud is from online transactions. The chips in the cards only protect you from skimmers, for the most part.

Luckily though, there are companies out there developing software that encrypts all of your personal data and utilizes hardware (peripheral to your PC) that requires actual human interaction to finalize a transaction for online purchases.

So basically, if you trust another company to keep your information safe (retailers, travel & hospitality services, medical institutions, etc.), you're still very much at risk because if a group of hackers targets their database with your stored info, they will find a way to get it.
 
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