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(Washington Post)   Colin Powell goes off on head-shaking staffer   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 450
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41818 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2004 at 1:27 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-02-12 04:15:01 PM  
I can barely stand to read all this bickering, but I do have a question. If Bush and everyone knew that they were lying about WMD, then they would have known in advance that none would be found. Do you really think they would have done that? I actually believe that the problem was faulty intelligence. It just makes more sense to me. OK, now start bashing my beliefs.
 
2004-02-12 04:15:28 PM  
MagnificentBastardRL said:
This is 1000% more interesting then whoever John Kerry supposedly farked.

Is that sad?

Leave it to Kerry to make a sex scandal boring.
 
2004-02-12 04:15:29 PM  
Swervie,
Speaking as an independant, if Bush wins with 70% of the vote, I will continue to say what I say now: The majority of Americans are uneducated, irrational, mindless religious sheep that will believe shiate tastes good if you tell them it's true enough. Of course, I'll be saying that no matter who wins.
 
2004-02-12 04:15:39 PM  
banger

Respect is in the mind, not the actions. I can be civil to someone I don't respect. The guy didnt pimp slap Powell. He just nodded his head. Meanwhile Powell threw a tantrum. Do we honestly even know why the guy nodded his head? Hell maybe he was taking notes and just remembered he had to take his dog to the vet at 4pm. He didnt say anything so how do we know the context of his head nod? Why am I even bringing this up. I hate slow work days, look at the crap I get into...


Wish I could masterbate in my office. Way more productive then the fark threads.
 
2004-02-12 04:17:07 PM  
2004-02-12 03:57:02 PM NICU8697
And Powell has become the type of politician I hope Clark doesn't turn into.


Don't worry. Clark's days in politics are over.
 
2004-02-12 04:18:06 PM  
If Bush and everyone knew that they were lying about WMD, then they would have known in advance that none would be found. Do you really think they would have done that? I actually believe that the problem was faulty intelligence.

that's just too easy an explanation. it makes too much sense. get out of this thread
 
2004-02-12 04:18:15 PM  
And Powell's days are numbered.
 
2004-02-12 04:18:45 PM  
chaoswolf ,

And crazy people always think that everyone around them is crazy and they are the sane ones.
 
2004-02-12 04:19:39 PM  

then they would have known in advance that none would be found. Do you really think they would have done that?


historians will have debate this one I'm afraid.

my sense is that the administration REALLY wanted to invade Iraq, on a hunch of evil, and various geopolitical desires.

With this mindset, the intelligence was skimmed and distilled until they convinced themselves Saddam had WMD.

Rumsfeld had already spilled the beans that WMD was a pretext, a casus belli. I think HE was smart enough to understand the process.
 
2004-02-12 04:19:44 PM  
"Bush has now maintained a 50% approval rating after being continually slammed in the press"

Are you being serious? Since 9/11, the American press has does nothing but suck up to this administration. It's only now, with the presidential race beginning in earnest, that the press is bothering to pay any attention to things like Bush's military record.

Speaking of his approval rating, take a good look at it. Bush's rating shot up after 9/11, and again during the invasion of Iraq. However, aside from the capture of Saddam, it's gone down pretty steadily. I would add that it's done so without a skeptical media, which is what appears to be waiting down the road.

"..not having even started his campaign run yet."

Rove has had this administration in campaign mode since before the inauguration. Landing on the aircraft carrier? Flying to Iraq on thanksgiving? These, and more, have been nothing but campaign manuvers, and they've been going on for over three years.
 
2004-02-12 04:20:20 PM  
Hoopy_Frood

It's not that the entire country is bad. Its more a fear of the beginning of the end. Maybe every generation has that. I just wish someone would point out some things that are getting better, instead of the appearance that things either stay nominal or get worse. The current prez gets on my nerves as do alot of things. The problem is everything that pisses me off only becomes more popular.

In other words, if I dont like something, invest in it! You will make millions.
 
2004-02-12 04:22:47 PM  
I blame Clinton.

(wait no we can't blame Clinton anymore, he's gone. But hold on, there's still some pieces of the Clinton puzzle left lying around. Let's blame them.)


I blame Tenet.

Do Republicans EVER take responsibilty or is it always someone else's fault?
 
2004-02-12 04:23:36 PM  

Leave it to Kerry to make a sex scandal boring.


total threadjack, but a real gem !! :)

I think I'd like four years of boring, thanks. Living in "interesting times" is not a blessing.
 
2004-02-12 04:25:45 PM  
Swervie,
I didn't say that people were crazy. I said they are uneducated sheep. Got righties telling us that Jesus saves and preemptive strikes are a good thing and lefties telling us that the rich don't pay their share. Logic states: Jesus was just a guy that said interesting stuff, killing each other without cause is always stupid and the top 1% of income takers pay over 30% of their income to the government, where the bottom 50% pay less than 10% of theirs. Be sheep, then, follow your parties, think critically about nothing.
 
2004-02-12 04:26:45 PM  
Do Republicans EVER take responsibilty or is it always someone else's fault?

THE BUCK STOPS....um, somewhere over there, I think.
 
2004-02-12 04:27:28 PM  
wheatweasel,

Beginning of the End? Yeah, I can see that too...

I just hope it doesn't get as bad as that Peter Graves movie with the same name... then we're all doomed!
 
2004-02-12 04:29:06 PM  
Hoopy_Frood


DOOMED!



/FedEx
 
2004-02-12 04:31:22 PM  
wheatweasel

I disagree with you about respect. Respect is something that can (and should) be shown. Repsect is as much an action as it is a feeling. Also, the two are not mutually inclusive. You don't have to have one to have the other.

You are correct. He could have remembered that he forgot to let his dog out and he'll have poop on his rug when he gets home. But... He's in a House Proceeding. Again, I maintain self control is the order (for all parties involved).
 
2004-02-12 04:31:52 PM  
My conservative estimate is that most of these are false.

(Unfortunately, your conservative estimate doesn't satisfy me as PROOF.)

He was the one being questioned. While answering a question, he made the decision to stop and begin speaking angrily to an aide of one of the congressmen on the commitee. If that's not interrupting the hearing, it's certainly not being civil and professional.

(If they want better testimony from their witnesses, they should control their staffers, as so they do not anger them. Powell cold just refuse, next time, until the room is cleared of nonessentials, or be uncooperative, or read his to do list. Again, if they want information out of him, being rude and hostile toward him is probably not the best way to get it. If he were a prisones, maybe, but a 4 star with lots of autonomy, I don't think so. They messed up, and he has the right to say anything he wants. I find it interesting that the staffer has the right to chastise him nonverbally, but Powells rights are somehow dissolved? If Powell is granted the same rights as the Staffer, cross his eyes back at him...to put his thumb to his nose...I think we're gonna have a problem with congressional hearings. Best solution? Have staffers know their place. This one didn't.)

No, I'm not. However, for Powell to be telling the truth, the buildings in question would need to be producing 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. In fact, we now know that Iraq not only didn't have any WMD's,

(Again, we don't KNOW that. If anything, we know that they DID. They used them. We only know that if they DON'T have them, they got rid of them in secret, without documenting it.)

but most likely hasn't produced any since the early 1990's. This, to me, is a pretty good case that his statement was false.

(I have a degree in Math, and I can't even calculate what is most likely. However, I would be very surprised if none was made in 11 years. Now, maybe not stockpiles, but I don't care if it was stockpiles, or a briefcase full.)

Please read my post again. I was not 'defending' the popular vote argument, I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. If you'd have stated that the popular vote is innacurate, and a poor representation, I would have agreed with you. However, your argument focused only on the fact that Bush would've received more votes in Texas. That is an incomplete assertion, and it deserved to be pointed out.


(Ok, well, I will agree I could have been more clear about that, but I never stated that Bush would have necessarily received more votes than Gore, Nationally. And, therefore, wasn't fallacious.)
 
2004-02-12 04:32:06 PM  
Regardless of whether or not one believes the testimony given by anyone, you don't go shaking your head at the person. It's simply disrespectful.
 
2004-02-12 04:35:12 PM  
I guess Michaael J. Fox and Mohammed Ali won't be invited back to sit in on congressional hearings in the future.

========


The Weeners in the thread still holds the record as being the funniest. As horrible as it was. Funny. You should be proud and ashamed of yourself, DrSoran.

Out.
 
2004-02-12 04:36:35 PM  

top 1% of income takers pay over 30% of their income to the government, where the bottom 50% pay less than 10% of theirs



that's federal income taxes, not aggregate tax burden.


there are multiple governemnts taxing you, in multiple ways.
 
2004-02-12 04:36:37 PM  
wheatweasel

It's not that the entire country is bad. Its more a fear of the beginning of the end.

You and I are in complete agreement on this. I fear this "Grand Experiment" is about over, but I don't think it's "all Bush's fault". I think we are beginning to evolve into a quasi-capitalist-but-not-quite-socialist form of government and I don't think it's going to be fun for a lot of people.
 
2004-02-12 04:40:07 PM  
Stupid Question:

Why does this issue even have sides? I mean how can anyone on either side really think that "their guy" was in the right?

To people saying: "The intern showed an utter lack of respect for the proceedings and should've been reprimanded."

you are correct.

To the people saying: "Powell had no business halting his testimony to scold some intern, it wasn't his place."

you are correct.

To the people saying: "If this administration hadn't given the false impression that Iraq posed an immediate danger to the US that the ONLY option left was war we wouldn't even need these stupid hearings."

you, also, are correct.
 
2004-02-12 04:42:47 PM  
"Again, we don't KNOW that [Iraq had no WMDs]"

The man in charge of finding them found nothing. We said he was incompetent, and brought in a new man in charge of finding them. He has found nothing, and has even gone so far as to state "It turns out we were all wrong". At what point will you admit that the WMDs just aren't there?

"Now, maybe not stockpiles, but I don't care if it was stockpiles, or a briefcase full."

What you care about is irrelevant. Powell claimed stockpiles. He was wrong, and the information is false.

"I never stated that Bush would have necessarily received more votes than Gore, Nationally. And, therefore, wasn't fallacious."

I didn't accuse you of lying, just of having an incomplete argument, and a "slight hole in your logic". Your eventual point was good, but as you've said, you could've been clearer.
 
2004-02-12 04:42:58 PM  
Colin shakes his head at times, too:



[/bobble, bobble]
 
2004-02-12 04:43:26 PM  
chaoswolf,
No you didn't say they were crazy, but my analogy is the same.
If the majority doesn't share your beliefs they are automatically deemed uneducated sheep.
 
2004-02-12 04:43:40 PM  
Busted!

On Colin Powell goes off on head-shaking staffer Thread:

Dancin_In_Anson

The congressman and staffer in question are total imbeciles for even bringing this up during an intellegence hearing. If I was in his distric, I'd call and eat his ass over being such an idiot.


In Pharmacists who withheld morning-after pill fired thread:

Dancin_In_Anson

Props to him for standing his ground...agree or disagree it takes some personal integrity to stand that fast...
 
2004-02-12 04:44:02 PM  
NICU8697 is correct!

/I feel like Ed MacMahon
 
2004-02-12 04:45:26 PM  


[/robble, robble]
 
2004-02-12 04:47:07 PM  
Leave the man alone, doesn't he have a hard enough time with Rummy constantly asking him if he can have his stapler after he's canned and Cheney dropping by with the help wanted section?
 
2004-02-12 04:48:31 PM  
dbaggins,
What, the rich don't pay sales tax, or tags and title, or state taxes? With the exception of maybe 2 or 3 people in the entire congress and executive branch, they are all a bunch of useless self-serving, lying slags.
Voting for the lesser of the evils is still voting for evil. And before anyone asks, the only answer will be revolution, so let's please hop to it, shall we?
 
2004-02-12 04:53:29 PM  
Swervie,
Are you then stating that pre-emptive murder is a good thing, that Jesus actually saves your soul for a trip to heaven at the rapture and that the rich pay less taxes than the poor?
 
2004-02-12 04:54:55 PM  
chaoswolf

Sure they pay all those taxes. on their car, and booze, and airplane rides, and all of those things.

but the PERCENTAGE of INCOME is the issue here.
 
2004-02-12 04:58:16 PM  
as a percentage on income, a typical two income family pulling in 60,000 a year (NOT the top 1% by ANY means) pays out roughly 39% of that money in taxes.

payroll, property, federal service taxes, car registration, sales taxes, etc.

taxes are taxes.
 
2004-02-12 05:03:44 PM  
2004-02-12 04:18:15 PM NICU8697
And Powell's days are numbered.


Other than the small minority on the left who dislike Powell, his days are anything but numbered. If he wanted the Presidency, he could probably get it.
 
2004-02-12 05:03:59 PM  
blarkeysmark

You may be tired of people telling you that the administration lied to you, but really,
you should just handle it like you did before, and just not hear what anyone is saying. Tune it out. You know you can, 'cause you did it before.

Just pull out your best Sergeant Schultz accent and say "I saw nothink!" and it all goes magically away!
 
2004-02-12 05:08:05 PM  
dbaggins,
If you're poor, you can't by 6 jetboats. All of us waste a lot of money on junk, and the richer you get, the more you waste. Are you stating that that the rich should pay for all the poor people to have boats? I'm guessing not. What I am stating is that it all comes out in the wash. If you're rich, you still pay more of your money to the government than the poor do. The difference is that 10% of 1000 bucks leaves me only for food and clothes for my kids. 30% of 200000 leaves me 140000 for food, clothes and my nasty cocaine habit.
 
2004-02-12 05:08:38 PM  
Swervie
I'll happily put a Bush/ Cheney sticker on my car. I'd like to see one of the cowardly hippies try and do anything about it. That would involve them having to put down the bong and leave the comfort of there parents basement.
Big talk from behind a computer and big action when out in public are two entirely different things.


And Ill happily slash your tires! Got something to say? I never really cared about laws. I carry my heater all the time-no permit. I am just loony enough to lick a couple at you too. Im tired of living second class. Ready fi bun. Put that sticker up. Traitor. Redcoat. Turncoat. Fascist. Nazi.
"Lets Roll"
Fark a hippy, I want my country back. Peaceful meathods have failed. Miserably. Ghandi sit back. Time for bloodshed.
 
2004-02-12 05:10:50 PM  
If he wanted the Presidency, he could probably get it.


now THERE is a delusion.

how ? he wouldn't get the black vote, since he doesn't support any program that black voters support. He wouldn't get the strong christians to vote for him,since he won't court them. Nobody in teh anti-bush camp will vote for him now (and despite the right's assertions this is a sizable noting block now)
 
2004-02-12 05:11:06 PM  
And should a rich person have to pay more for property tax than the middle class family? Oh wait, they do, the live in jacked up pricey neighborhoods with outlandish property taxes.
Should they pay more for their car tags?
How about their cigarettes? Should we tax the rich an extra 50% sales tax just because they're rich?
 
2004-02-12 05:13:14 PM  
chaoswolf

I have no idea what you are arguing now. my point was bogus statistics about who shoulders the largest tax burden as a percentage of income.
 
2004-02-12 05:15:49 PM  
These head shakers are all terrorists.
 
2004-02-12 05:15:59 PM  
Liberals whine for Bush administration to take diplomatic route prior to war with Iraq.

Bush administration does, allowing Saddam Hussein months to do whatever he needs to do with his WMD.

Liberals then express shock and dismay when, months later, it's difficult to find it. Suddenly, it never existed.

It's a documented fact that Saddam had WMD. U.N. weapons inspectors were still finding stuff when they left in 1998. You can see photos of the found WMD on the CIA's web site.

Liberals want you to believe that Saddam Hussein secretly destroyed the remaining WMD himself, destroyed all evidence that he destroyed them, then systematically thwarted pre-war weapons inspections, failed to fully cooperate and gave up his power and kingdom rather than acknowledge and prove that he'd gotten rid of them. It's ridiculous on its face, but the Liberal Lie doesn't work any other way. They know it, they ignore it, and blather away.

For examples of their blatant politics-playing and hypocrisy on the subject, look at what their stated positions were, across the board on every issue - Saddam's threat, Vietnam-era service or lack thereof, etc. - when it applies to Clinton, Bob Kerrey, or some other Democrat.
 
2004-02-12 05:20:02 PM  
dbaggins,
you are correct. The rich overall, pay less of a % total based on their income in taxes than we do. But the top 10% income earners still cover over 2\3s of the total tax to the government.

The only way to truly make everything more equitable is... revolution. Start shooting rich people until everyone is equal... wait, poor people too.
 
2004-02-12 05:25:24 PM  
I better flip through the Patriot Act and see if we can do that revolution thing. It seems like a pretty obvious loophole for activists..I mean, terrorists, yeah, terrorists.
 
2004-02-12 05:26:32 PM  
FishingWithFredo
Man, here comes a long one!

Lemme ask you this. Waaay back when Saddam first gassed the Kurds, did you fear he was going to use the gas on Americans?

He HAD WMD. He HAD WMD. I agree entirely with the facts, figures, all of it.

Did he EVER USE THEM ON AMERICANS? or PLAN TO? You seem to jump to the conclusion that he would, given the chance.

The farker was slammed between several shiatty rocks and hard places, and was using the WMD for his own backyard brawls. That's bourne out in the facts -- he gassed uprising Kurds. He had some "sour relations" with Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Israel. Apparently those issues don't factor in. Surely, he'd need to attack a country on the other side of the globe!

This shiathole dictator had NO INTENTIONS of attacking a superpower. You prove me wrong there, buttcake, and maybe I'll give you the time of day for your arguments.
 
2004-02-12 05:31:12 PM  
rebels, freedom fighters, terrorists, patriots, all labels. There will never be peace between the haves and the have-nots. The oppressors and the oppressed. Sadly, it's just human nature.
 
2004-02-12 05:32:01 PM  
2004-02-12 05:10:50 PM dbaggins

Powell wouldn't get the black vote, since he doesn't support any program that black voters support. He wouldn't get the strong Christians to vote for him,since he won't court them. Nobody in the anti-bush camp will vote for him now (and despite the right's assertions this is a sizable voting block now)

now THERE is a delusion.


Rather than become a Grammar Nazi, I fixed your mistake.
 
2004-02-12 05:33:05 PM  
"[Saddam Hussein] might be able to reveal when [the WMD] were done away with. I am inclined to think it was early in 1991 or 1992."

Iraq probably destroyed its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the early 1990s, the former United Nations chief weapons inspector Hans Blix has said.

Speaking to the BBC's World Service, Mr Blix said he was more certain than ever that there was no WMD in Iraq.


FishingWithFredo, how do you like your crow prepared?
 
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