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(Mother Jones)   Remember Herman Cain? HE'S BACK   (motherjones.com) divider line 176
    More: Hero, Herman Cain, President Obama, graders  
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4371 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jun 2014 at 10:01 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-21 03:17:56 PM  

Rann Xerox: Remember Herman Cain?

Yep.

HE'S BACK.

[i78.photobucket.com image 210x195]

"Gary Coleman, his arms held high."


When the walls fell.
 
2014-06-21 03:52:23 PM  
Holy shiat now I'm a post-modern art critic :D

I'm starting to like you, Tetrazphere.

if it were scenes of Afghani or Iraqi footage of American-bombed aftermath, with an Islamic song being sung by an Afghani political candidate, would it be grotesque (to her)?

It would in my eyes be monstrously sad and horrible, even with a complete comprehension of the event depicted. Even if I KNEW that the KIAs were entirely "bad guys" and my country's attack was completely justified..

I know very well what my country's weapons can do.

I am a human being before I am anything else.

I am capable of sympathizing with the humanity of my enemy even as I am obliterating him on the battlefield with unquestionably just cause.

Trouble is with your question I'd need to be completely fluent in Pashto in order to understand the song, and experienced in the understanding of the culture involved.

I am neither. And as many times as I've joked about it, I'm sure as hell not a telepath.

So, I fear that particular point gets a bit lost.

Would people then see it in an acceptable light, a way that they could agree with? What if Cain's video wasn't a political add, and it was made by a group of 9/11 families? Would it be seen in an understandable light?

All I can say is that I think the same video if made by a different source with different motives -- should I watch it -- would be just as unpleasant and tasteless, in my eyes, from a purely aesthetic viewpoint.

Trying to ask me to like something I flatly don't like -- whatever it might be, wherever it might come from -- because it's psychologically and artistically mindf*ck is Not A Good Thing To Ask of me.

To transcend partisanship would mean to integrate the best of the political parties while being aware of the weaknesses,

This is why I'm a JFK fan.
 
2014-06-21 03:56:09 PM  
However much they're paying Tetrazphere to talk up Cain, I sure hope they demand a refund.
Who needs "enemies" when you have "fans" like this?
 
2014-06-21 04:17:07 PM  

I'm an Egyptian!: And wouldn't it be awesome, if Wolverine fought Batman, cuz Wolverine would be like all 'SNIKT' and Batman would be all silent and staring, and then they'd fight, and who do you think would win?

Why did I write that? Because that fiction has as much bearing on the conversation as your statement above does. What if an Afghan political party did it? Why should I give a fark?



You're not world-centric in your thinking, that's fine. But we are now living in a truly interconnected global society. What's going on in the middle-east directly effects you and everyone else. Pro 9/11 video's (different context...celebrating attacks on innocents, not remembering the victims) Gas prices have spiked lately in direct relation to ISIS  unimpeded takeover of many Iraqi cities. During that blitz they also plundered enough money to now be the richest terrorist organization on the planet. Which may help the leader of ISIS fulfill his vow to attack New York. This will effect your world in some way.


So what you're saying is both sides are bad. Any advice on who to vote for?


Not that their bad, just only partially right.
I'm not happy with any of the likely candidates. Most of the Republican party is a decade or 3 behind the curve and I haven't really been able to take Chris Christie seriously. Hillary does not sit well with me, I hope another Democratic candidate emerges. Also a third-party vote is still likely a wasted vote.


To transcend partisanship would mean to integrate the best of the political parties while being aware of the weaknesses, while also creating an atmosphere for post-liberal idea's to emerge. (Currently liberal ideology is a psychological stage or two above traditional and achievement conservatism, but has some very dangerous pitfalls of it's own).

Ok, you lost me on this one. And you say Kittypie sounds like a seasoned art critic? Are you Poe-ing me?



Basically some common attributes of the right are personal responsibility, self-determination, discipline, achievement drive etc.. which the left tends to lack. The best of the left is a liberation from dogma and greed, environmentalism, post-conventional thought, and taking the perspective of marginalized groups which the left can over-emphasize but the right completely ignores. None of these concepts are mutually exclusive and they can be integrated. Most of the political thought-capital is spent formulating partisaned idea's that simultaneously show why the other side is wrong. I think that is hindering the emergence of better solutions that could otherwise emerge.

And no, I'm not kidding about the Kitty.
 
2014-06-21 04:20:30 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Tetrazphere: Already said he's not equipped to handle foreign policy or post-modern cultural issues

Now you're just throwing in words that you think make you sound smart. Sadly, your ignorance of what they mena actually makes you sound stupid. You know what that is? It's like rain on your wedding day.

/clue: he's not going to be analyzing literature or philosophy



Yea, but an inside event was pre-scheduled, that's post-modern irony.

Herman Cain is modern, he doesn't want to hear about pluralism, or marginalizing, or constructed mental realities that the post-modern world is about.
 
2014-06-21 04:29:17 PM  
www.motherjones.com

/He has a BSc in Mathematics.
 
2014-06-21 04:40:38 PM  

Tetrazphere: Basically some common attributes of the right are personal responsibility, self-determination, discipline, achievement drive etc.. which the left tends to lack.


These sound more like traits that the right has assigned to themselves more than any demonstrable reality. Or, at the very least, that the left, as a general rule, also shares these values. Self-style righties do not own the market on, say, having a job and wanting to own a business.

I'm sorry to cherry-pick your post, but that particular remark/sentiment always pisses me off. It tacitly suggests that to be a liberal in America, you're dependent on the government for everything.
 
2014-06-21 04:48:22 PM  
What's his skin color got to do with it, substers?
 
2014-06-21 04:51:47 PM  

ecl: Obama's Left Nut: Trance750: jasonvatch: "A First Grader Could Run America Better" said Herman Cain.

Maybe, but you didn't get the chance.

After 8 years of Bush, a first grader would be an improvement

How long is the but Bush bullshiat going to last? Yeah he was a crappy president but FFS your guy has to take responsibility for SOMETHING.

How long will it take to fix Iraq?  Forever?  Then Bush/Cheney can suck infinite dicks.


And gave their buddies at Hiliburton contracts, kickbacks, and Presidential Favors

Of course Cheney served on the board of directors, but I'm sure that had nothing at all to do with that
 
2014-06-21 04:56:33 PM  
the annual conference of the Faith and Freedom Coalition

One of the many conservative circle jerk events of the year. Enjoy your radical right-wing fan fic.
 
2014-06-21 05:27:44 PM  

Tetrazphere: Basically some common attributes of the right are personal responsibility, self-determination ...


All right, I admit right now I'm just gonna use ONE guy as an example. Are we both clear on that? ONE guy, to serve as ONE example.


When Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) led the charge to shut down the United States government over the implementation of the Affordable Care Act last fall, the general consensus, including among many of his Republican colleagues, was that the move would be a disaster for the GOP.

Cruz did find a receptive audience for his shutdown strategy among House conservatives, whom he secretly strategized with during the shutdown at the Capitol Hill Mexican restaurant Tortilla Coast.


------

CRUZ: But look, I - I - let me be very clear. I said throughout this, we shouldn't have a shutdown. I don't want a shutdown. I repeatedly voted to open the government.

KARL: But there never would have been a shutdown if you hadn't gone with the strategy of saying we're not even going to fund the government for six weeks -

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: And you know what?

KARL: - unless we can defund ObamaCare.

CRUZ: - you know what, John, there never would have been a shutdown if Harry Reid and President Obama hadn't said we will not compromise, we will not negotiate, shut the government down.


-------

The Texas Senator has shown no sense of responsibility or conscience over the damage that he has done.

------

Republicans are outraged today after Sen. Ted Cruz withdrew his support for his own plan to shutdown the government unless Obamacare is defunded.

OK, so this is just one guy outta the whole lot of 'em. Remember, it's just one example.

It just doesn't seem all that "responsible" for some guy to gin up something really honking big, spend a whoooooooole buttload of consecutive hours filibustering FOR it, and then turn right around and completely deny that he had anything whatever to do with the very thing he himself spent an entire summer ginning up, and then finally wind up voting AGAINST it.
 
2014-06-21 05:54:55 PM  

Obama's Left Nut: Fark like a Barsoomian: heavymetal: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 550x369]

Not sure if Cain or Thomas. Then I read "Grope" and... nope. Still not sure if Cain or Thomas.

Is that because they all look alike?


It's because that pic of Cain is too fat in the face to be Cain.
 
2014-06-21 06:19:39 PM  

Kittypie070: All right, I admit right now I'm just gonna use ONE guy as an example.


Yeah, but Cruz's family is from Cuba and he was born in Canada, so obviously not a true Scotsman.

/He probably doesn't even like haggis.
 
2014-06-21 06:36:11 PM  

HighOnCraic: Kittypie070: All right, I admit right now I'm just gonna use ONE guy as an example.

Yeah, but Cruz's family is from Cuba and he was born in Canada, so obviously not a true Scotsman.

/He probably doesn't even like haggis.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-06-21 06:47:00 PM  

Kittypie070: HighOnCraic: Kittypie070: All right, I admit right now I'm just gonna use ONE guy as an example.

Yeah, but Cruz's family is from Cuba and he was born in Canada, so obviously not a true Scotsman.

/He probably doesn't even like haggis.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 299x169]


Maybe you missed the joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
 
2014-06-21 08:24:42 PM  

HighOnCraic: Maybe you missed the joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


Nah, I got it OK. :3
 
2014-06-21 09:00:39 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Tetrazphere: Thrag: Tetrazphere: ecl: Kittypie070: Tetrazphere: Kittypie070: That is not a shuck either folks. It's an honest to Hades political advert from that guy.

Kitty, do you think that add have any place at all, outside of politics?

What!? Are we or are we not in the Fark Politics section??

Did I somehow not make it quite blatantly and transparently obvious that it was indeed specifically a political ad and ONLY a political ad!!??

He just doesn't like you beating up on his candidate of choice.

Already said he's not equipped to handle foreign policy or post-modern cultural issues. Though I think he does have an undeniable understanding about how to help small businesses succeed and decrease unemployment.

Can you give examples of Cain demonstrating this undeniable understanding of how to help small business succeed and decrease unemployment? What exactly do you derive this belief from?

Cutting payroll taxes, mandated employer covered healthcare, and mandatory minimum wage increase...all of which are understandable for huge businesses like wal-mart but kills small businesses. For example even big corporations like Papa John's, who admittedly has a greedy CEO, franchise their business name and model out to small time business owner's, who pay a monthly franchise fee to use it. They are not the millionaire's. Many actually plan a 2-5 year loss in personal revenue.

Things that benefit workers hurt small business owners. Got it.



It's beneficial for the workers if the small business can keep their doors open.
 
2014-06-21 09:34:00 PM  

dickfreckle: Tetrazphere: Basically some common attributes of the right are personal responsibility, self-determination, discipline, achievement drive etc.. which the left tends to lack.

These sound more like traits that the right has assigned to themselves more than any demonstrable reality. Or, at the very least, that the left, as a general rule, also shares these values. Self-style righties do not own the market on, say, having a job and wanting to own a business.

I'm sorry to cherry-pick your post, but that particular remark/sentiment always pisses me off. It tacitly suggests that to be a liberal in America, you're dependent on the government for everything.



Well it also is about the policies themselves. Liberals tend to emphasize exterior causes for someone's suffering "bigoted traditional conservatives" or "greedy wall-street conservatives" or just having a society where the marginalized fall through the cracks, it's not their fault.

Conservatives tend to emphasize interior causes...like the aforementioned personal responsibility, work ethic, undisciplined spending and non-saving (buying unnecessary bling or swag), and general arrogant self-entitlement attitude toward life.

Conservatives will phrase it as things should be earned, not given out. All working tax-payers work a portion of their time supporting a segment of the population who refuses to earn their keep and just uses an easily abusable system as much as possible. It is necessary for businesses to be successful for the working class to even have jobs and have the opportunity to be successful. We got successful through discipline, hard-work and determination, and that's what they expect from everyone else.

Liberals will phrase it as, everyone should be on an even playing field, and the entire system in America is set up to favor people who are already born privileged. It would be non-compassionate to not give people the resources they need so they have a chance to make it out of poverty, people aren't lazy they just don't have the opportunity. It is not irrational to take a little more money from someone who is making x-number of millions of dollars to give to the lower class, so they can atleast keep their heads above water.

I do believe a portion of democratic voters do fall into the category of users, but that does not apply to liberals in their totality. I think democrats are basically pre-conventional (the users type) and post-conventional ("progressive" thinkers) and since both are non-conventional (typical republican conservatives) they are easily confused and find themselves on the same side of political issues.
 
2014-06-21 09:55:36 PM  

Kittypie070: Republicans are outraged today after Sen. Ted Cruz withdrew his support for his own plan to shutdown the government unless Obamacare is defunded.

OK, so this is just one guy outta the whole lot of 'em. Remember, it's just one example.

It just doesn't seem all that "responsible" for some guy to gin up something really honking big, spend a whoooooooole buttload of consecutive hours filibustering FOR it, and then turn right around and completely deny that he had anything whatever to do with the very thing he himself spent an entire summer ginning up, a ...



Ted Cruz is a joke and just really farking weird. Doesn't he come off a bit squirrely fruit loops? And many republicans want this guy to run for president, I don't see it. He is out of touch with America (and reality). Anyways, by filibustering, the GOP has more of an edge of "I-told-you-so" about the predictably unpopular Obamacare (many actually thought they wouldn't have to pay for it). The President did have a chance to hear the conservatives out, but stubbornly passed...(they most likely would have demanded unacceptable changes but this is politics, the political partisanship game of sports at work. So many people are caught up on either side, and can't tell that the football both sides are fighting for hasn't moved very much at all.)

But yes, Ted Cruz was undeniably more responsible for the government shutdown than any other human on the planet. The least amount of fault I would ever give would be 51% Cruz and 49% Obama.
 
2014-06-21 10:22:57 PM  

Tetrazphere: dickfreckle: Tetrazphere: Basically some common attributes of the right are personal responsibility, self-determination, discipline, achievement drive etc.. which the left tends to lack.

These sound more like traits that the right has assigned to themselves more than any demonstrable reality. Or, at the very least, that the left, as a general rule, also shares these values. Self-style righties do not own the market on, say, having a job and wanting to own a business.

I'm sorry to cherry-pick your post, but that particular remark/sentiment always pisses me off. It tacitly suggests that to be a liberal in America, you're dependent on the government for everything.


Well it also is about the policies themselves. Liberals tend to emphasize exterior causes for someone's suffering "bigoted traditional conservatives" or "greedy wall-street conservatives" or just having a society where the marginalized fall through the cracks, it's not their fault.

Conservatives tend to emphasize interior causes...like the aforementioned personal responsibility, work ethic, undisciplined spending and non-saving (buying unnecessary bling or swag), and general arrogant self-entitlement attitude toward life.

Conservatives will phrase it as things should be earned, not given out. All working tax-payers work a portion of their time supporting a segment of the population who refuses to earn their keep and just uses an easily abusable system as much as possible. It is necessary for businesses to be successful for the working class to even have jobs and have the opportunity to be successful. We got successful through discipline, hard-work and determination, and that's what they expect from everyone else.

Liberals will phrase it as, everyone should be on an even playing field, and the entire system in America is set up to favor people who are already born privileged. It would be non-compassionate to not give people the resources they need so they have a chance to make it out of poverty, people ...


A fallacy I hear is people say that the Democrat Party is the party of the lazy and welfare addicts
 
2014-06-22 12:26:52 AM  

Tetrazphere: Kittypie070: Republicans are outraged today after Sen. Ted Cruz withdrew his support for his own plan to shutdown the government unless Obamacare is defunded.

OK, so this is just one guy outta the whole lot of 'em. Remember, it's just one example.

It just doesn't seem all that "responsible" for some guy to gin up something really honking big, spend a whoooooooole buttload of consecutive hours filibustering FOR it, and then turn right around and completely deny that he had anything whatever to do with the very thing he himself spent an entire summer ginning up, a ...


Ted Cruz is a joke and just really farking weird. Doesn't he come off a bit squirrely fruit loops? And many republicans want this guy to run for president, I don't see it. He is out of touch with America (and reality). Anyways, by filibustering, the GOP has more of an edge of "I-told-you-so" about the predictably unpopular Obamacare (many actually thought they wouldn't have to pay for it). The President did have a chance to hear the conservatives out, but stubbornly passed...(they most likely would have demanded unacceptable changes but this is politics, the political partisanship game of sports at work. So many people are caught up on either side, and can't tell that the football both sides are fighting for hasn't moved very much at all.)

But yes, Ted Cruz was undeniably more responsible for the government shutdown than any other human on the planet. The least amount of fault I would ever give would be 51% Cruz and 49% Obama.


Giving Boehner 98% of what he wanted totally makes Obama 49% responsible. Republican math at work.
 
2014-06-22 12:40:41 AM  

Tetrazphere: Well it also is about the policies themselves. Liberals tend to emphasize exterior causes for someone's suffering "bigoted traditional conservatives" or "greedy wall-street conservatives" or just having a society where the marginalized fall through the cracks, it's not their fault.

Conservatives tend to emphasize interior causes...like the aforementioned personal responsibility, work ethic, undisciplined spending and non-saving (buying unnecessary bling or swag), and general arrogant self-entitlement attitude toward life


Oh that is such oversimplified horseshiat.
 
2014-06-22 01:10:34 AM  

Fart_Machine: Giving Boehner 98% of what he wanted totally makes Obama 49% responsible. Republican math at work.


Boehner said that in reference to his meeting with Obama prior to the Super Committee meeting in Aug 2011, not about any hammered out finalized details concerning the debt ceiling. The Super Committee itself failed to come to an agreement in Nov 2012. Afterwords, Obama decided to move ahead without coming to terms with any Republican discourse....The Republicans asked for another Select Committee before the shutdown and Obama refused, it was his way or the government shutdown, not even an informal meeting.

The way you stated it (or believe it) implies that republicans got 98% of what they were asking for concerning the debt ceiling, which is inherently false.
 
2014-06-22 01:11:52 AM  

Mugato: Tetrazphere: Well it also is about the policies themselves. Liberals tend to emphasize exterior causes for someone's suffering "bigoted traditional conservatives" or "greedy wall-street conservatives" or just having a society where the marginalized fall through the cracks, it's not their fault.

Conservatives tend to emphasize interior causes...like the aforementioned personal responsibility, work ethic, undisciplined spending and non-saving (buying unnecessary bling or swag), and general arrogant self-entitlement attitude toward life

Oh that is such oversimplified horseshiat.


Of course it's oversimplified!
 
2014-06-22 05:49:06 AM  

dickfreckle: quatchi: In Cain's final speech before he quit his campaign he actually quoted lyrics from the Donna Summer song "The Power of One" from the Pokemon movie.

Hmmm. I would have much preferred "Love to Love You Baby." Especially the groaning sounds.


That song *is* a classic. Good call.

/Dang, Now I hafta go que up Digital Underground's Freaks of the Industry
 
2014-06-22 10:01:13 AM  

Tetrazphere: Fart_Machine: Giving Boehner 98% of what he wanted totally makes Obama 49% responsible. Republican math at work.

Boehner said that in reference to his meeting with Obama prior to the Super Committee meeting in Aug 2011, not about any hammered out finalized details concerning the debt ceiling. The Super Committee itself failed to come to an agreement in Nov 2012. Afterwords, Obama decided to move ahead without coming to terms with any Republican discourse....The Republicans asked for another Select Committee before the shutdown and Obama refused, it was his way or the government shutdown, not even an informal meeting.

The way you stated it (or believe it) implies that republicans got 98% of what they were asking for concerning the debt ceiling, which is inherently false.


If your opponent decides to shift the goalposts after you make the agreement then it wasn't made in good faith and it shouldn't be agreed upon. The GOP wanted a shutdown and that's what they got. Then they tried to shift the blame when public opinion turned against them.
 
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