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(Network World)   I have a plan. You aim a laser at an airliner. I'll turn you in. We'll split the $10,000 reward. Deal?   (networkworld.com ) divider line
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10508 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jun 2014 at 1:40 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-20 02:21:51 PM  

wxboy: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


According to the article, 3960.
 
2014-06-20 02:24:40 PM  

Carousel Beast: Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.



I'm ATC.  This is a big deal.  We don't need a death toll to know it's extremely dangerous.  Most pilots fly by visual reference when they're low and if they can't see, they can't fly.  These laser attacks happen -by in large- during what we call critical phases of flight aka when an aircraft is low and slow and flying visually.  It wouldn't take much of a panic to cause a stall and crash.

The fact that we in the aviation industry are extremely well trained and prepared for just about any conceivable eventuality is probably the lion's share of the reason there haven't been any accidents.

But sure, you know better than me and the pilots in that video.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:12 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?


Could be, if your kid needed an operation.  Just sayin.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:29 PM  
The secret is to stand on the property of someone you don't like. Easy money and a problem goes to jail. 2 birds, 1 stone.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:47 PM  
Years ago I had one of those green pointers when they were brand new, damn thing must have cost $300. Now every kid can go around bringing down aircraft for like $4.
 
2014-06-20 02:26:40 PM  
Holy shiat, so, because no planes have ever crashed, it just ain't no thang? Christ, just don't do it, it serves no purpose other than creating a dangerous situation.
 
2014-06-20 02:27:03 PM  
Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?
 
2014-06-20 02:28:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: worlddan: Whatchoo Talkinbout: How many crashes have occurred?

None. The problem here is that all it takes is one and then the outrage will come about how come the government didn't do anything and why on earth are we once again "regulating by gravestone". I think the threat is hypothetical when it come to commercial planes but for helicopters and light aircraft I see how it could easily be dangerous.

We had it happen to one of our helis a few years back. Blinded the pilot for about six minutes while approaching a scene.


Wow, that's a lot of hearsay vaguery there.  Got a copy of the police report or one of these?
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-20 02:28:55 PM  
you kids gotta be more careful!

www.luigispizzaandfuncenter.com
 
2014-06-20 02:29:00 PM  

dukeblue219: Because,


Thanks for that perspective. Really.
 
2014-06-20 02:29:24 PM  

bigdanc: Carousel Beast: Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.


I'm ATC.  This is a big deal.  We don't need a death toll to know it's extremely dangerous.  Most pilots fly by visual reference when they're low and if they can't see, they can't fly.  These laser attacks happen -by in large- during what we call critical phases of flight aka when an aircraft is low and slow and flying visually.  It wouldn't take much of a panic to cause a stall and crash.

The fact that we in the aviation industry are extremely well trained and prepared for just about any conceivable eventuality is probably the lion's share of the reason there haven't been any accidents.

But sure, you know better than me and the pilots in that video.


While your attempt at framing the debate is laudable, you addressed absolutely nothing I actually said in any of my posts.
 
2014-06-20 02:29:36 PM  
I have a better plan. Equip each plane with smart weapons. Shine a laser at it? Get a missile up your arse. Problem solved.
 
2014-06-20 02:30:23 PM  
"Lasers"

i thought commercial planes were flown by computers?  the pilot just monitors the computers unless he has to take manual control.
 
2014-06-20 02:30:36 PM  

MechaPyx: I have a better plan. Equip each plane with smart weapons. Shine a laser at it? Get a missile up your arse. Problem solved.


Actually, I'm a libby lib lib LIBURUL and I think that's a fine idea.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:13 PM  

WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?


Which part is a troll, where I said it's never been even a casual causal factor in an accident or the part where I've said the danger is overstated. Because those are the only things I've actually said, though people responding to me have created a slew of strawmen.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:32 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?


They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:46 PM  
Father

Brother

and

I


are looking for you.
 
2014-06-20 02:32:14 PM  

Linux_Yes: "Lasers"

i thought commercial planes were flown by computers?  the pilot just monitors the computers unless he has to take manual control.


Yeah.  It's so easy even the eternally drunk Dean Martin could do it...

media.liveauctiongroup.net

"Everybody flies and airplane sometime..."
 
2014-06-20 02:38:35 PM  

TheGogmagog: Wow, that's a lot of hearsay vaguery there.  Got a copy of the police report or one of these?


Actually, it was an A-Star 350B2 approaching a scene in rural Mississippi to airlift an MVC victim, and I'm not identifying my employer here on FARK. (I've been harassed in the past after doing so. Politics tab can get personal, apparently.)

www.abpic.co.uk

Like that, right there.

This was before we used ANVIS-9s on the pilots and one crew member at night for our adult team. The pilot was flash blinded, and managed to get back to 1500 feet and circle until he could see. When he landed, the crew had to go by ground EMS to the facility, delaying patient care and potentially endangering the life of the patient.

As for the police report, that is handled by our director. If you want to figure out my employer, you can contact him.

But yeah. I'm totally lying about that.
 
2014-06-20 02:39:57 PM  

Carousel Beast: WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?

Which part is a troll, where I said it's never been even a casual causal factor in an accident or the part where I've said the danger is overstated. Because those are the only things I've actually said, though people responding to me have created a slew of strawmen.


I'm well aware of your M.O. Now, go play in the middle of the interstate.
 
2014-06-20 02:41:32 PM  
 
2014-06-20 02:42:58 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Wait, you need evidence that a blind or blinded operator of a vehicle can (he did say "can") be a bad thing?

So, what: when you see a Fark article about a blind guy driving a car with the "help" of someone else in the vehicle, you just shrug and say, "What's the big deal?"?

Are you really that dumb?
 
2014-06-20 02:43:44 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Wait, you need evidence that a blind or blinded operator of a vehicle can (he did say "can") be a bad thing?


Googling is hard. Laser strikes on aircraft are so harmless  that it blinded a Flight Paramedic in January.
 
2014-06-20 02:46:01 PM  
Yeah, this is no joke. One guy in my wing just got medically disqualified because a laser farked up his eyes that bad. Know a couple others who have been grounded for a few weeks til they stopped seeing spots.

/AF cargo pilot.
//Nope, won't prove it. I like keeping my job, thanks.
 
2014-06-20 02:49:14 PM  
HEY EVERYBODY, LOOK!!!

i255.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-20 02:49:48 PM  

astrophysicist23: Yeah, this is no joke. One guy in my wing just got medically disqualified because a laser farked up his eyes that bad. Know a couple others who have been grounded for a few weeks til they stopped seeing spots.


If you can say, how good is the current NVG gear the AF uses on it's crews as far as protecting itsself with laser strikes? I know the ANVIS-9 can blow out the cathode tubes if it gets lased.
 
2014-06-20 02:51:17 PM  
I'm just going to leave this right here.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/

/The Arctic can reach over 2 watts
 
2014-06-20 02:59:20 PM  

gopher321: I blame the sharks.


The Sharks would get the laser to the plane, but not through the window...
 
2014-06-20 03:00:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: If you can say, how good is the current NVG gear the AF uses on it's crews as far as protecting itsself with laser strikes? I know the ANVIS-9 can blow out the cathode tubes if it gets lased.


I'm honestly not sure. Never heard of anyone getting lased on NVGs, at least in my airframe. We usually only use them in dark, rural places where lasing isn't that big a problem.
 
2014-06-20 03:00:17 PM  
I wonder why we haven't started putting coatings on aircraft glass that block the most commonly used laser pointer frequencies. Lasers operate at a single frequency so it should be possible to put a narrow band filter into the glass and require laser pointers sold in civilized countries to operate at the regulated frequencies. It shouldnt affect incandescent hazard lights since those operate on a wider frequency band and would still be visible through the filter.
 
2014-06-20 03:01:59 PM  
what the? what ever happened to go old boxcuttershoulderfiredirancontraSAMmissles ?
 
2014-06-20 03:06:28 PM  

WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?


Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.
 
2014-06-20 03:07:51 PM  

GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.


I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.
 
2014-06-20 03:09:03 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-20 03:09:17 PM  
Tangentially related story bro:

Did you know that auto-darkening welding helmets use technology originally developed by the Air Force so that pilots wouldn't be immediately blinded by a nuclear bomb going off in front of them?

/welder
 
2014-06-20 03:10:11 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.

I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.


Leave a bunch of star charts around, software open to plot out a few constellations etc. and have a telescope in the yard. You were studying astronomy.
 
2014-06-20 03:10:19 PM  

AndreMA: Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.


Carousel Beast has a large and colored history with trolling political threads with BSABSVR tripe. Calling him a troll, in this case, is actually earned based on his behavior in the past.
 
2014-06-20 03:11:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: Father

Brother

and

I


are looking for you.



img.fark.net

/obscure
 
2014-06-20 03:14:20 PM  
Laser-Gard® PVC Film

problem solved.
 
2014-06-20 03:21:05 PM  

hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.

Carousel Beast has a large and colored history with trolling political threads with BSABSVR tripe. Calling him a troll, in this case, is actually earned based on his behavior in the past.


Fair enough; I can't speak to his behavior elsewhere.

That said, I think the discussion should be split in two -- helicopters can be effectively targeted with a handheld laser for more than a split second, while fixed wing aircraft would be far more difficult to hit and result in a momentary (even if still potentially dangerous) flash.

I'd wager that a lot of the strikes on fixed wing craft were accidental, resulting from people messing around and accidentally bouncing the beam skyward from the windshield of a (hopefully) parked car or other reflective surface. That would also tend to result in more beam spreading: greater likelihood or a strike of longer exposure (but at lower intensity) at the aircraft.

I'm not convinced that this is any more serious a problem for airliners than people irresponsibly launching model rockets near approach and departure flight paths. If laser pointers are so effective, I'm surprised I've not heard a lot of reports of people trying to evade the police in car chases by using one.
 
2014-06-20 03:24:45 PM  

dukeblue219: If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.


That looks like the game screen from the Last Starfighter. I've annihilated the Kodan Armada many times, I can handle some punk with his watch battery powered Tom Swift Electric Rifle.
 
2014-06-20 03:26:25 PM  

AndreMA: If laser pointers are so effective, I'm surprised I've not heard a lot of reports of people trying to evade the police in car chases by using one.


They aren't actually "laser pointers", per say. The kind you buy for presentations or to play with your cat or dog with are very low power, and atmospheric diffusion of the beam would eliminate their effectiveness long before they hit the window of an airframe in flight, helicopter OR plane. At best, these are actually tactical laser sights, and at worse, high power novelty lasers which cost hundreds of dollars, or lasers from scientific supply catalogs.
 
2014-06-20 03:30:57 PM  

ReverendJynxed: wxboy: GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.

I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.

Leave a bunch of star charts around, software open to plot out a few constellations etc. and have a telescope in the yard. You were studying astronomy.


Pointing lasers at what is clearly an aircraft for long enough to get the attention of someone on board would probably not be considered 'studying astronomy', and trying to claim you didn't realize it was an aircraft would likely just reinforce the idea that you weren't really studying astronomy, seeing as how one of the first lessons is "telling the difference between aircraft and astronomical objects".
 
2014-06-20 03:32:06 PM  

wxboy: How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


I would totally point a laser pointer at things for non-nefarious purposes.

See it bounce off the water, reflect off of surfaces, etc.

// but I don't do it because I think it would be just my luck for a reflection to go the wrong way and get me arrested.
 
2014-06-20 03:35:52 PM  

BStorm: Pointing lasers at what is clearly an aircraft for long enough to get the attention of someone on board would probably not be considered 'studying astronomy', and trying to claim you didn't realize it was an aircraft would likely just reinforce the idea that you weren't really studying astronomy, seeing as how one of the first lessons is "telling the difference between aircraft and astronomical objects".


The fact that you appeared to the flight crew to be following the aircraft and trying to hit them, rather than being a motionless beam that they would avoid in the first place, might also be the chink in your iron-clad defense.
 
2014-06-20 03:36:11 PM  

Carousel Beast: dukeblue219: If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.

Your pic demonstrates some seriously lax airport security, not to mention someone who took an awful lot of risks and effort to pull a drunken gag. From that spot they could do a lot more than use a laser pointer.


Troll, shut the fark up.
 
2014-06-20 03:36:37 PM  
Frankie MacDonald got a job as an airline pilot.  This is great news.  I've really been pulling for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVxp-RKMp88

i.huffpost.com
 
2014-06-20 03:42:05 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Would you like someone to teach you how to use Google?
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/06/19/pilot-bound-for-la-reports -e ye-injury-as-laser-strikes-from-ground-increase/

http://abcnews.go.com/News/jetblue-pilot-suffers-eye-injury-from-gre en -laser/blogEntry?id=16793227
 
2014-06-20 03:42:37 PM  
CSS (from a friend):

Friend is a parole/probation officer in Texas.  One of her charges went missing for a while so they posted a small reward for knowledge of his whereabouts.  His Momma called up wanting to know if she turned him in how long it would take to get the reward because she would then have enough money to bail him out.
 
2014-06-20 03:49:53 PM  
On a serious note:

Handheld lasers you can buy fairly cheap are getting ludicrously powerful.

I have a 35mw green laser I bought years ago.  That thing will make you eyes hurt a little with a reflection off a white wall.  35mw is just powerful where you will blink to avoid MOST damage were it pointed directly at your eyes, but even a lowly 35mw (35 MILIwatt) can cause damage.

As noted above, you can cheaply buy or build 2 WATT+ (not miliwatt) lasers these days.  These things can cause permanent injury without the correct protective glasses on in a split second, way faster than you will blink.
 
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