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(Network World)   I have a plan. You aim a laser at an airliner. I'll turn you in. We'll split the $10,000 reward. Deal?   (networkworld.com ) divider line
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10506 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jun 2014 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-20 12:27:40 PM  
It's so crazy it just might work! Let's do it! You'll be the guy that does the time, right?
 
2014-06-20 12:34:17 PM  
I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.
 
2014-06-20 01:21:03 PM  
I blame the sharks.
 
2014-06-20 01:34:44 PM  
Train sharks to do it. What're they going to do arrest freakin' sharks?
 
2014-06-20 01:35:39 PM  
Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"
 
2014-06-20 01:42:49 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


Umm excuse me?? There are CHILDREN on that plane!! Maybe UNBORN CHILDREN!! Think of them!!!
 
2014-06-20 01:43:36 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.
 
2014-06-20 01:44:26 PM  

nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.


I guess I'd be careless, or at least semi-careless. I love the effects that happen when laser and light beams reflect off of particles in smoke and fog.
 
2014-06-20 01:44:52 PM  
Have to make sure the person is a minor to maximize risk vs reward for both participants.
 
2014-06-20 01:46:16 PM  

nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.


I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?
 
2014-06-20 01:47:07 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


Lasers can temporarily blind pilots; which IS kind of a big deal on an airliner. Most of the time, idiots point lasers at helicopters; especially police helicopters. It can create a very unsafe situation.
 
2014-06-20 01:48:04 PM  

Clutch2013: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I guess I'd be careless, or at least semi-careless. I love the effects that happen when laser and light beams reflect off of particles in smoke and fog.


And now for a clarification.

I'm not one of those assholes that intentionally seeks out planes or people to shine lasers at. In fact, I actively try to avoid that. It's always in the back of my mind, though, whether or not my seemingly innocuous beam aimed at what I think is the middle of nowhere is actually hitting something.
 
2014-06-20 01:48:54 PM  

Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.


Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.
 
2014-06-20 01:49:38 PM  
They should stop flying over Disco's.
 
2014-06-20 01:49:59 PM  

wxboy: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


I once had a large not-very-bright dog and if I it got too late to walk him with good light (rural area) I'd get out the old laser pointer and he'd chase it all around the fields until he was worn out.  So people do take them outside for legitimate reasons, I never aimed it above 3 feet or so, though.
 
2014-06-20 01:50:57 PM  

wxboy: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


I've met a few amateur astronomers who use laser pointers to point out areas in the sky when talking to people.  They don't intentionally aim at overhead planes, but if one happened to be on the path, they would "hit" it.
 
2014-06-20 01:52:55 PM  

Carousel Beast: Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Have you even seen the result of a green laser pointer hitting a plane windshield?  Look up flash blindness, or start with http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation. h tm.  It's not fun, and can crash planes.
 
2014-06-20 01:53:12 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


Jesus, just arm the pilots

It's the American way!
 
2014-06-20 01:53:15 PM  
Unless it lands me on the sex-offender registry, I'm not interested.
 
2014-06-20 01:53:20 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Yeah, cuz your anecdote about driving is exactly like landing a Boeing.  Here, let me Google that for you:

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Laser_Safety_in_Navigable_Airspac e
 
2014-06-20 01:53:29 PM  
No, officer, I wasn't pointing the laser into the cockpit of the plane.  I was traveling past the airport with my cat in the car and I stopped and was trying to see if I could get Sith Lord to jump off the top of the car as I pointed it into the night.
 
2014-06-20 01:55:04 PM  
5$ says that "ridiculous 1000% increase" in laser flashes came only because the government made a big deal about a couple events and now a ton of kids who never thought about it before saw the news and decided to aim lasers at jets too.
 
2014-06-20 01:55:45 PM  
How are the lasers getting in the cockpit windows? If you point a laser toward an aircraft it should hot the bottom. If you get a shot that does angle right it would hit the ceiling of a cockpit. The video shows the person on the runway. I would think security would be better in that instance.

Would polarized glass somehow help?
 
2014-06-20 01:56:01 PM  
Not to worry, it's just Obama trying to create airline jobs.
 
2014-06-20 01:57:20 PM  

syberpud: wxboy: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?

I've met a few amateur astronomers who use laser pointers to point out areas in the sky when talking to people.  They don't intentionally aim at overhead planes, but if one happened to be on the path, they would "hit" it.


Yeah, I guess.  My feeling, though, is that, even if you're pointing a laser into the sky for astronomy purposes, your chances of finding an airplane by accident are pretty low.  And if this is such a big issue that the FBI is putting out rewards on it (and that's apparently effective), the number of accidental cases is probably pretty low.
 
2014-06-20 01:58:01 PM  
content7.flixster.com
 
2014-06-20 01:58:08 PM  
I have a $30 green laser pointer and at night if you aim it into the sky it looks like a brilliant green lightsaber piercing the heavens as far as you can see. I can certainly see why some uneducated, bored dumbass might think it was fun to shine it at helicopters and airplanes.

I think jail time and a hefty fine is a good place to start.
 
2014-06-20 01:58:13 PM  

nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.


The bigger pointers can travel quite far, but it's also because of the color, I think red is the shortest, then green, then blue.
 
2014-06-20 01:59:19 PM  
How many crashes have occurred?
 
2014-06-20 01:59:25 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


So here's the first article to pop up when you actually search Google instead of sitting there acting like you did anything: http://www.bustle.com/articles/28822-guys-airplanes-laser-pointers-do n t-mix-so-can-we-stop-this-please

It explains why it is dangerous.  Oh, here's another one that shows you what it actually looks like for the pilot: http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation. h tm

Also, we're not talking about the 2 dollar keychain laser pointers that Toys R Us sells here.  You really should understand that your life experiences don't equal the experiences of others that neatly, dude.
 
2014-06-20 02:00:38 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


Because, while it is unlikely to actually cause in accident, it is extremely distracting and blinding and poses a stupid, unnecessary risk. As a pilot I have never been lased myself but know others that have. You can search on youtube for videos of this happening and why it is so distracting. When the laser (already pretty wide at that distance) flashes across the windscreen (it doesn't have to be held there obviously) it makes the plexiglass light up just like when your dirty scratched car windshield faces into the setting sun. If you're flying at night your night vision is extremely important to maintain, and that flash can really mess you up for a minute or so.
 
2014-06-20 02:01:47 PM  
And here I thought subby was sending us a 'moron of the year' story.
 
2014-06-20 02:02:23 PM  

Trocadero: [content7.flixster.com image 462x247]


Beat me to it

/shakes tiny fist, after a 15 minute pan and scan shot of the landscape
 
2014-06-20 02:04:33 PM  

Solty Dog: How are the lasers getting in the cockpit windows? If you point a laser toward an aircraft it should hot the bottom. If you get a shot that does angle right it would hit the ceiling of a cockpit. The video shows the person on the runway. I would think security would be better in that instance.

Would polarized glass somehow help?


Because you're thinking of a laser as a thin, straight beam like when you shine it on the wall in your house. It does expand with distance, and when it hits glass it will bend. Not only that, when it hits the tiny imperfections in a plexiglass windscreen it lights up the whole thing like one big flash. Google it for picture, or youtube for demonstrations. All you need to do is flash across the windscreen for a nanosecond and the pilot, with eyes adjusted to the absolute darkness, will see it like someone took a flash photograph in his face.

And no, you don't want polarization when flying because it can block the sun's glint off another plane, which is one way to detect them. Also, I don't believe it would affect lasers.
 
2014-06-20 02:05:13 PM  

Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"


because a laser can blind a pilot, and endanger the aircraft.
 
2014-06-20 02:06:12 PM  
www.tc.gc.ca

If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.
 
2014-06-20 02:06:16 PM  
Hmm, a pilot program? I C what U did there, FBI.
 
2014-06-20 02:06:35 PM  

ByOwlLight: Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.

So here's the first article to pop up when you actually search Google instead of sitting there acting like you did anything: http://www.bustle.com/articles/28822-guys-airplanes-laser-pointers-do n t-mix-so-can-we-stop-this-please

It explains why it is dangerous.  Oh, here's another one that shows you what it actually looks like for the pilot: http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation. h tm

Also, we're not talking about the 2 dollar keychain laser pointers that Toys R Us sells here.  You really should understand that your life experiences don't equal the experiences of others that neatly, dude.


Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.
 
2014-06-20 02:07:09 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: How many crashes have occurred?


None. The problem here is that all it takes is one and then the outrage will come about how come the government didn't do anything and why on earth are we once again "regulating by gravestone". I think the threat is hypothetical when it come to commercial planes but for helicopters and light aircraft I see how it could easily be dangerous.
 
2014-06-20 02:08:32 PM  

Khellendros: Carousel Beast: Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.

Have you even seen the result of a green laser pointer hitting a plane windshield?  Look up flash blindness, or start with http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation. h tm.  It's not fun, and can crash planes.


I notice you use the term 'can crash planes'.  Is that like  Cigarettes can cause cancer, or homeopathy can be beneficial?
 
2014-06-20 02:08:56 PM  
I have been wanting to buy a laser forever but couldn't think of a single legitimate thing do with it.
 
2014-06-20 02:08:59 PM  

worlddan: Whatchoo Talkinbout: How many crashes have occurred?

None. The problem here is that all it takes is one and then the outrage will come about how come the government didn't do anything and why on earth are we once again "regulating by gravestone". I think the threat is hypothetical when it come to commercial planes but for helicopters and light aircraft I see how it could easily be dangerous.


We had it happen to one of our helis a few years back. Blinded the pilot for about six minutes while approaching a scene.
 
2014-06-20 02:10:01 PM  

dukeblue219: If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.


Your pic demonstrates some seriously lax airport security, not to mention someone who took an awful lot of risks and effort to pull a drunken gag. From that spot they could do a lot more than use a laser pointer.
 
2014-06-20 02:10:17 PM  
Is it still OK to aim them at chemtrail-spraying planes since they officially "do not exist"?
 
2014-06-20 02:12:29 PM  
So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?
 
2014-06-20 02:17:24 PM  
And here I thought the sole purpose of a laser was to torture your cat.
 
2014-06-20 02:17:54 PM  

GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?


I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?
 
2014-06-20 02:19:50 PM  

SpdrJay: I have been wanting to buy a laser forever but couldn't think of a single legitimate thing do with it.


Holography.

Digital communications (but, you need to get one where you can modulate the signal).
 
2014-06-20 02:20:09 PM  

Carousel Beast: ByOwlLight: Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.

So here's the first article to pop up when you actually search Google instead of sitting there acting like you did anything: http://www.bustle.com/articles/28822-guys-airplanes-laser-pointers-do n t-mix-so-can-we-stop-this-please

It explains why it is dangerous.  Oh, here's another one that shows you what it actually looks like for the pilot: http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation. h tm

Also, we're not talking about the 2 dollar keychain laser pointers that Toys R Us sells here.  You really should understand that your life experiences don't equal the experiences of others that neatly, dude.

Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.


yeah. because we shouldn't prevent people from doing it until people die.
 
2014-06-20 02:20:30 PM  

mjjt: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Jesus, just arm the pilots

It's the American way!


Maybe something like this?
xbradtc.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-06-20 02:21:51 PM  

wxboy: nekom: I wonder how many of the reported incidents are intentional vs. how many people just carelessly pointing laser pointers around.  Or does it take something more than a laser pointer to travel that far?  Don't get me wrong, I know people do it intentionally and they are total assholes, but there could be a light pollution aspect to it as well.

I would think an accidental illumination would be over so fast that a pilot would wonder if it really happened or was just his imagination.  Something that lasted long enough to be worth reporting or was repeated several times per minute would almost have to be intentional.

How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


According to the article, 3960.
 
2014-06-20 02:24:40 PM  

Carousel Beast: Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.



I'm ATC.  This is a big deal.  We don't need a death toll to know it's extremely dangerous.  Most pilots fly by visual reference when they're low and if they can't see, they can't fly.  These laser attacks happen -by in large- during what we call critical phases of flight aka when an aircraft is low and slow and flying visually.  It wouldn't take much of a panic to cause a stall and crash.

The fact that we in the aviation industry are extremely well trained and prepared for just about any conceivable eventuality is probably the lion's share of the reason there haven't been any accidents.

But sure, you know better than me and the pilots in that video.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:12 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?


Could be, if your kid needed an operation.  Just sayin.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:29 PM  
The secret is to stand on the property of someone you don't like. Easy money and a problem goes to jail. 2 birds, 1 stone.
 
2014-06-20 02:25:47 PM  
Years ago I had one of those green pointers when they were brand new, damn thing must have cost $300. Now every kid can go around bringing down aircraft for like $4.
 
2014-06-20 02:26:40 PM  
Holy shiat, so, because no planes have ever crashed, it just ain't no thang? Christ, just don't do it, it serves no purpose other than creating a dangerous situation.
 
2014-06-20 02:27:03 PM  
Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?
 
2014-06-20 02:28:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: worlddan: Whatchoo Talkinbout: How many crashes have occurred?

None. The problem here is that all it takes is one and then the outrage will come about how come the government didn't do anything and why on earth are we once again "regulating by gravestone". I think the threat is hypothetical when it come to commercial planes but for helicopters and light aircraft I see how it could easily be dangerous.

We had it happen to one of our helis a few years back. Blinded the pilot for about six minutes while approaching a scene.


Wow, that's a lot of hearsay vaguery there.  Got a copy of the police report or one of these?
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-20 02:28:55 PM  
you kids gotta be more careful!

www.luigispizzaandfuncenter.com
 
2014-06-20 02:29:00 PM  

dukeblue219: Because,


Thanks for that perspective. Really.
 
2014-06-20 02:29:24 PM  

bigdanc: Carousel Beast: Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.


I'm ATC.  This is a big deal.  We don't need a death toll to know it's extremely dangerous.  Most pilots fly by visual reference when they're low and if they can't see, they can't fly.  These laser attacks happen -by in large- during what we call critical phases of flight aka when an aircraft is low and slow and flying visually.  It wouldn't take much of a panic to cause a stall and crash.

The fact that we in the aviation industry are extremely well trained and prepared for just about any conceivable eventuality is probably the lion's share of the reason there haven't been any accidents.

But sure, you know better than me and the pilots in that video.


While your attempt at framing the debate is laudable, you addressed absolutely nothing I actually said in any of my posts.
 
2014-06-20 02:29:36 PM  
I have a better plan. Equip each plane with smart weapons. Shine a laser at it? Get a missile up your arse. Problem solved.
 
2014-06-20 02:30:23 PM  
"Lasers"

i thought commercial planes were flown by computers?  the pilot just monitors the computers unless he has to take manual control.
 
2014-06-20 02:30:36 PM  

MechaPyx: I have a better plan. Equip each plane with smart weapons. Shine a laser at it? Get a missile up your arse. Problem solved.


Actually, I'm a libby lib lib LIBURUL and I think that's a fine idea.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:13 PM  

WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?


Which part is a troll, where I said it's never been even a casual causal factor in an accident or the part where I've said the danger is overstated. Because those are the only things I've actually said, though people responding to me have created a slew of strawmen.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:32 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?


They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.
 
2014-06-20 02:31:46 PM  
Father

Brother

and

I


are looking for you.
 
2014-06-20 02:32:14 PM  

Linux_Yes: "Lasers"

i thought commercial planes were flown by computers?  the pilot just monitors the computers unless he has to take manual control.


Yeah.  It's so easy even the eternally drunk Dean Martin could do it...

media.liveauctiongroup.net

"Everybody flies and airplane sometime..."
 
2014-06-20 02:38:35 PM  

TheGogmagog: Wow, that's a lot of hearsay vaguery there.  Got a copy of the police report or one of these?


Actually, it was an A-Star 350B2 approaching a scene in rural Mississippi to airlift an MVC victim, and I'm not identifying my employer here on FARK. (I've been harassed in the past after doing so. Politics tab can get personal, apparently.)

www.abpic.co.uk

Like that, right there.

This was before we used ANVIS-9s on the pilots and one crew member at night for our adult team. The pilot was flash blinded, and managed to get back to 1500 feet and circle until he could see. When he landed, the crew had to go by ground EMS to the facility, delaying patient care and potentially endangering the life of the patient.

As for the police report, that is handled by our director. If you want to figure out my employer, you can contact him.

But yeah. I'm totally lying about that.
 
2014-06-20 02:39:57 PM  

Carousel Beast: WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?

Which part is a troll, where I said it's never been even a casual causal factor in an accident or the part where I've said the danger is overstated. Because those are the only things I've actually said, though people responding to me have created a slew of strawmen.


I'm well aware of your M.O. Now, go play in the middle of the interstate.
 
2014-06-20 02:41:32 PM  
 
2014-06-20 02:42:58 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Wait, you need evidence that a blind or blinded operator of a vehicle can (he did say "can") be a bad thing?

So, what: when you see a Fark article about a blind guy driving a car with the "help" of someone else in the vehicle, you just shrug and say, "What's the big deal?"?

Are you really that dumb?
 
2014-06-20 02:43:44 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Wait, you need evidence that a blind or blinded operator of a vehicle can (he did say "can") be a bad thing?


Googling is hard. Laser strikes on aircraft are so harmless  that it blinded a Flight Paramedic in January.
 
2014-06-20 02:46:01 PM  
Yeah, this is no joke. One guy in my wing just got medically disqualified because a laser farked up his eyes that bad. Know a couple others who have been grounded for a few weeks til they stopped seeing spots.

/AF cargo pilot.
//Nope, won't prove it. I like keeping my job, thanks.
 
2014-06-20 02:49:14 PM  
HEY EVERYBODY, LOOK!!!

i255.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-20 02:49:48 PM  

astrophysicist23: Yeah, this is no joke. One guy in my wing just got medically disqualified because a laser farked up his eyes that bad. Know a couple others who have been grounded for a few weeks til they stopped seeing spots.


If you can say, how good is the current NVG gear the AF uses on it's crews as far as protecting itsself with laser strikes? I know the ANVIS-9 can blow out the cathode tubes if it gets lased.
 
2014-06-20 02:51:17 PM  
I'm just going to leave this right here.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/

/The Arctic can reach over 2 watts
 
2014-06-20 02:59:20 PM  

gopher321: I blame the sharks.


The Sharks would get the laser to the plane, but not through the window...
 
2014-06-20 03:00:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: If you can say, how good is the current NVG gear the AF uses on it's crews as far as protecting itsself with laser strikes? I know the ANVIS-9 can blow out the cathode tubes if it gets lased.


I'm honestly not sure. Never heard of anyone getting lased on NVGs, at least in my airframe. We usually only use them in dark, rural places where lasing isn't that big a problem.
 
2014-06-20 03:00:17 PM  
I wonder why we haven't started putting coatings on aircraft glass that block the most commonly used laser pointer frequencies. Lasers operate at a single frequency so it should be possible to put a narrow band filter into the glass and require laser pointers sold in civilized countries to operate at the regulated frequencies. It shouldnt affect incandescent hazard lights since those operate on a wider frequency band and would still be visible through the filter.
 
2014-06-20 03:01:59 PM  
what the? what ever happened to go old boxcuttershoulderfiredirancontraSAMmissles ?
 
2014-06-20 03:06:28 PM  

WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?


Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.
 
2014-06-20 03:07:51 PM  

GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.


I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.
 
2014-06-20 03:09:03 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-20 03:09:17 PM  
Tangentially related story bro:

Did you know that auto-darkening welding helmets use technology originally developed by the Air Force so that pilots wouldn't be immediately blinded by a nuclear bomb going off in front of them?

/welder
 
2014-06-20 03:10:11 PM  

wxboy: GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.

I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.


Leave a bunch of star charts around, software open to plot out a few constellations etc. and have a telescope in the yard. You were studying astronomy.
 
2014-06-20 03:10:19 PM  

AndreMA: Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.


Carousel Beast has a large and colored history with trolling political threads with BSABSVR tripe. Calling him a troll, in this case, is actually earned based on his behavior in the past.
 
2014-06-20 03:11:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: Father

Brother

and

I


are looking for you.



img.fark.net

/obscure
 
2014-06-20 03:14:20 PM  
Laser-Gard® PVC Film

problem solved.
 
2014-06-20 03:21:05 PM  

hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Asking questions about the history and outcomes of incidents in order to evaluate the need and potential effectiveness of the program being discussed is trolling? You have an interesting definition.

Carousel Beast has a large and colored history with trolling political threads with BSABSVR tripe. Calling him a troll, in this case, is actually earned based on his behavior in the past.


Fair enough; I can't speak to his behavior elsewhere.

That said, I think the discussion should be split in two -- helicopters can be effectively targeted with a handheld laser for more than a split second, while fixed wing aircraft would be far more difficult to hit and result in a momentary (even if still potentially dangerous) flash.

I'd wager that a lot of the strikes on fixed wing craft were accidental, resulting from people messing around and accidentally bouncing the beam skyward from the windshield of a (hopefully) parked car or other reflective surface. That would also tend to result in more beam spreading: greater likelihood or a strike of longer exposure (but at lower intensity) at the aircraft.

I'm not convinced that this is any more serious a problem for airliners than people irresponsibly launching model rockets near approach and departure flight paths. If laser pointers are so effective, I'm surprised I've not heard a lot of reports of people trying to evade the police in car chases by using one.
 
2014-06-20 03:24:45 PM  

dukeblue219: If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.


That looks like the game screen from the Last Starfighter. I've annihilated the Kodan Armada many times, I can handle some punk with his watch battery powered Tom Swift Electric Rifle.
 
2014-06-20 03:26:25 PM  

AndreMA: If laser pointers are so effective, I'm surprised I've not heard a lot of reports of people trying to evade the police in car chases by using one.


They aren't actually "laser pointers", per say. The kind you buy for presentations or to play with your cat or dog with are very low power, and atmospheric diffusion of the beam would eliminate their effectiveness long before they hit the window of an airframe in flight, helicopter OR plane. At best, these are actually tactical laser sights, and at worse, high power novelty lasers which cost hundreds of dollars, or lasers from scientific supply catalogs.
 
2014-06-20 03:30:57 PM  

ReverendJynxed: wxboy: GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.

I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.

Leave a bunch of star charts around, software open to plot out a few constellations etc. and have a telescope in the yard. You were studying astronomy.


Pointing lasers at what is clearly an aircraft for long enough to get the attention of someone on board would probably not be considered 'studying astronomy', and trying to claim you didn't realize it was an aircraft would likely just reinforce the idea that you weren't really studying astronomy, seeing as how one of the first lessons is "telling the difference between aircraft and astronomical objects".
 
2014-06-20 03:32:06 PM  

wxboy: How many people are running around outdoors with a laser pointer pointing it at things anyway, if not for nefarious purposes?


I would totally point a laser pointer at things for non-nefarious purposes.

See it bounce off the water, reflect off of surfaces, etc.

// but I don't do it because I think it would be just my luck for a reflection to go the wrong way and get me arrested.
 
2014-06-20 03:35:52 PM  

BStorm: Pointing lasers at what is clearly an aircraft for long enough to get the attention of someone on board would probably not be considered 'studying astronomy', and trying to claim you didn't realize it was an aircraft would likely just reinforce the idea that you weren't really studying astronomy, seeing as how one of the first lessons is "telling the difference between aircraft and astronomical objects".


The fact that you appeared to the flight crew to be following the aircraft and trying to hit them, rather than being a motionless beam that they would avoid in the first place, might also be the chink in your iron-clad defense.
 
2014-06-20 03:36:11 PM  

Carousel Beast: dukeblue219: If you don't mind flying in the back of a jetliner while this is happening to the pilots, then you're braver or stupider than I.

Your pic demonstrates some seriously lax airport security, not to mention someone who took an awful lot of risks and effort to pull a drunken gag. From that spot they could do a lot more than use a laser pointer.


Troll, shut the fark up.
 
2014-06-20 03:36:37 PM  
Frankie MacDonald got a job as an airline pilot.  This is great news.  I've really been pulling for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVxp-RKMp88

i.huffpost.com
 
2014-06-20 03:42:05 PM  

Carousel Beast: Last Man on Earth: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Because the reaction can easily include a plane crash, that's why.

Really? Can you cite that? I can't find any evidence of an accident of ANY kind attributed to a laser pointer.

Anecdotally, I've had kids shine laser pointers in my eyes while driving. I didn't even farking swerve.


Would you like someone to teach you how to use Google?
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/06/19/pilot-bound-for-la-reports -e ye-injury-as-laser-strikes-from-ground-increase/

http://abcnews.go.com/News/jetblue-pilot-suffers-eye-injury-from-gre en -laser/blogEntry?id=16793227
 
2014-06-20 03:42:37 PM  
CSS (from a friend):

Friend is a parole/probation officer in Texas.  One of her charges went missing for a while so they posted a small reward for knowledge of his whereabouts.  His Momma called up wanting to know if she turned him in how long it would take to get the reward because she would then have enough money to bail him out.
 
2014-06-20 03:49:53 PM  
On a serious note:

Handheld lasers you can buy fairly cheap are getting ludicrously powerful.

I have a 35mw green laser I bought years ago.  That thing will make you eyes hurt a little with a reflection off a white wall.  35mw is just powerful where you will blink to avoid MOST damage were it pointed directly at your eyes, but even a lowly 35mw (35 MILIwatt) can cause damage.

As noted above, you can cheaply buy or build 2 WATT+ (not miliwatt) lasers these days.  These things can cause permanent injury without the correct protective glasses on in a split second, way faster than you will blink.
 
2014-06-20 03:58:32 PM  

WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?


welcome to Fark?

I think he's asking for actual examples of where someone shining a laser at an aircraft caused an accident.  I don't doubt that doing so creates a serious hazard, but I have not heard of any specific examples either.
 
2014-06-20 03:59:52 PM  

gfid: WTFDYW: Why are people responding to an obvious troll, that is Carousel Beast?

welcome to Fark?

I think he's asking for actual examples of where someone shining a laser at an aircraft caused an accident.  I don't doubt that doing so creates a serious hazard, but I have not heard of any specific examples either.


Trust me. He has a history. A long one.
 
2014-06-20 03:59:57 PM  
A 19% decrease in reported envents? How often does this shiat happen?
 
2014-06-20 04:07:17 PM  

gfid: I think he's asking for actual examples of where someone shining a laser at an aircraft caused an accident.  I don't doubt that doing so creates a serious hazard, but I have not heard of any specific examples either.


Up thread, I linked an example from this year where a laser strike incident disabled a Flight Paramedic, and rendered a rural air ambulance unable to complete it's mission. The risks of laser strikes are so severe that they warrant pre-emptive action to prevent them and punish people who do things asinine like lase air ambulances.

The Air Industry doesn't work on "Well, it's okay until an accident occurs, THEN we'll fix it". Aircrew Risk Management is a big deal, and so is preventing accidents before they occur. Because those accidents are overwhelmingly fatal to the aircrew, patient, and or passengers when they do.
 
2014-06-20 04:07:57 PM  

praxis44241: A 19% decrease in reported envents? How often does this shiat happen?


About 3,000 times a year across the United States.
 
2014-06-20 04:14:43 PM  
I got a better plan.  I aim a laser at an airliner.  Then I turn you in for it.  Then I keep the reward.  Then I take your credit cards, wife, pets, children, burn your house down, salt your fields, throw you off a cliff and claim the insurance money.
 
2014-06-20 04:14:58 PM  

bigdanc: Carousel Beast: Three responses and not a one citing an accident of any kind. You know, like I asked for.

So this is SO DAMN DANGEROUS you can't do anythingore than link to "zomg catastrophe" articles. Really?

Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria.


I'm ATC.  This is a big deal.  We don't need a death toll to know it's extremely dangerous.  Most pilots fly by visual reference when they're low and if they can't see, they can't fly.  These laser attacks happen -by in large- during what we call critical phases of flight aka when an aircraft is low and slow and flying visually.  It wouldn't take much of a panic to cause a stall and crash.

The fact that we in the aviation industry are extremely well trained and prepared for just about any conceivable eventuality is probably the lion's share of the reason there haven't been any accidents.

But sure, you know better than me and the pilots in that video.


Luckily it's still legal to shoot the control towers. Easier too. Traffic controllers don't needs to see, do they?

/sarcasm
 
2014-06-20 04:16:23 PM  
Interestingly, all the articles linked to talk about airplanes landing or taking off around airports and/or helicopters.

Which makes sense since it would be exceedingly difficult (meaning impossible) to hit the cockpit window of a 747 when it is at 39k altitude. One of the articles that people are quoting here calls lasers "no distraction" and "indistinguishable from background lights beyond 11,712 ft".

I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.

I wonder if Farkers ever read the stuff they link to? Keep up the good derp and you get a price if you can hit the cockpit window of this at cruising altitude of 35k ft.

cdn-www.airliners.net
 
2014-06-20 04:21:44 PM  

hinten: I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.


Medical and Police, as well as transit helicopters typically fly at altitudes of 500' in rural, open terrain or 1000' minimums in uneven terrain or city controlled airspace settings to perform their missions, and are granted exemptions to minimum altitudes as necessary to perform their duties when flying.
 
2014-06-20 04:22:57 PM  

hinten: Interestingly, all the articles linked to talk about airplanes landing or taking off around airports and/or helicopters.

Which makes sense since it would be exceedingly difficult (meaning impossible) to hit the cockpit window of a 747 when it is at 39k altitude. One of the articles that people are quoting here calls lasers "no distraction" and "indistinguishable from background lights beyond 11,712 ft".

I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.

I wonder if Farkers ever read the stuff they link to? Keep up the good derp and you get a price if you can hit the cockpit window of this at cruising altitude of 35k ft.

[cdn-www.airliners.net image 850x573]


If your laser is powerful enough, hitting the windshield isn't really that hard. Jut keep it pointed at the aircraft and the beam will likely wander across the windshield on its own.
 
2014-06-20 04:24:25 PM  

Tobin_Lam: If your laser is powerful enough, hitting the windshield isn't really that hard. Jut keep it pointed at the aircraft and the beam will likely wander across the windshield on its own.


The danger is also not just to the pilot. ANVIS-9 goggles are pretty expensive. And so is treatment by an opthamologist for laser burns on crew member's eyes.

I'm pretty good at my job, but it's hard to care for a patient when I'm blind.
 
2014-06-20 04:26:45 PM  
If you think that pointing a laser at someone on the ground isn't a big deal, it is easy to find stories of people getting charged with assault and battery simply from lasting a police car. Lasers are a big deal. It is like saying knives aren't a big deal, I know what I'm talking about because the blade in my Swiss Army knife is only 1" long.
 
2014-06-20 04:27:51 PM  

SpdrJay: I have been wanting to buy a laser forever but couldn't think of a single legitimate thing do with it.


play with your cats/dogs
 
2014-06-20 04:33:22 PM  

SpdrJay: I have been wanting to buy a laser forever but couldn't think of a single legitimate thing do with it.


You shine it on someone's junk you are interested in to let them know you are tech savvy and interested in their junk.
 
2014-06-20 04:39:29 PM  

Tobin_Lam: If you think that pointing a laser at someone on the ground isn't a big deal, it is easy to find stories of people getting charged with assault and battery simply from lasting a police car. Lasers are a big deal. It is like saying knives aren't a big deal, I know what I'm talking about because the blade in my Swiss Army knife is only 1" long.


Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?
 
2014-06-20 04:44:56 PM  
This is actually a crazy enough plan to work.

If you make it look like a TOTAL frikkin accident.  So, that way there would be no actual conviction.
Like, you create the event.  Let the cops start an investigation and offer a reward.  Turn in your buddy as the culprit.  But have the investigation show that it was an accident and there is no need to continue.

I think the major flaw in this plan is that most rewards are not paid unless they result in a conviction.
 
2014-06-20 05:04:02 PM  

AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: If you think that pointing a laser at someone on the ground isn't a big deal, it is easy to find stories of people getting charged with assault and battery simply from lasting a police car. Lasers are a big deal. It is like saying knives aren't a big deal, I know what I'm talking about because the blade in my Swiss Army knife is only 1" long.

Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?


Generally speaking, officers who use the threat of lethal force (such as pointing a firearm at someone, laser or not) in situations where it is not necessary would be subject to significantly more serious charges than simple assault.

The situations where people have been charged with assault and battery for pointing lasers at officers usually happen because the perpetrators intentionally pointed them at an officer's face in an attempt to deliberately blind them. Not really much different than throwing acid or poking them with a stick other than the ability to do it from a greater distance.
 
2014-06-20 05:06:28 PM  

topcon: As noted above, you can cheaply buy or build 2 WATT+ (not miliwatt) lasers these days.


american-buddha.com

40 Watts?  Hey, just what you see, pal.

/Not that the T800 cared about cheap
 
2014-06-20 05:08:19 PM  

BStorm: ReverendJynxed: wxboy: GoldDude: wxboy: GoldDude: So what if I point a regular presentation style (low-energy) laser pointer at the side of the plane as I am boarding?  Can I turn myself in for the $10K?

I suppose so.  But is 10 years in PMITA prison (payout presumably only happens upon conviction) really worth a paltry $10 grand?

They claimed it was $10K for info that leads to an arrest.
If I can prove there is nothing wrong with my actions, I can collect the $10K and sue for false arrest.

I think your main difficulty there is going to be doing enough to get arrested without doing enough to get convicted.

Leave a bunch of star charts around, software open to plot out a few constellations etc. and have a telescope in the yard. You were studying astronomy.

Pointing lasers at what is clearly an aircraft for long enough to get the attention of someone on board would probably not be considered 'studying astronomy', and trying to claim you didn't realize it was an aircraft would likely just reinforce the idea that you weren't really studying astronomy, seeing as how one of the first lessons is "telling the difference between aircraft and astronomical objects".


It was dark, I thought it was a star and I was trying to fix it's location to continue research. Perhaps a a new comet. My glasses broke.
 
2014-06-20 05:09:01 PM  

BStorm: AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: If you think that pointing a laser at someone on the ground isn't a big deal, it is easy to find stories of people getting charged with assault and battery simply from lasting a police car. Lasers are a big deal. It is like saying knives aren't a big deal, I know what I'm talking about because the blade in my Swiss Army knife is only 1" long.

Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Generally speaking, officers who use the threat of lethal force (such as pointing a firearm at someone, laser or not) in situations where it is not necessary would be subject to significantly more serious charges than simple assault.

The situations where people have been charged with assault and battery for pointing lasers at officers usually happen because the perpetrators intentionally pointed them at an officer's face in an attempt to deliberately blind them. Not really much different than throwing acid or poking them with a stick other than the ability to do it from a greater distance.


Unfortunately the determination of what is "necessary" is often in the hands of the same organization that used the force to begin with. There's no shortage of police-shot video of drug raids where even after everyone is prone on the floor with hands visible, red dots are playing on them.
 
2014-06-20 05:13:43 PM  

hinten: Interestingly, all the articles linked to talk about airplanes landing or taking off around airports and/or helicopters.

Which makes sense since it would be exceedingly difficult (meaning impossible) to hit the cockpit window of a 747 when it is at 39k altitude. One of the articles that people are quoting here calls lasers "no distraction" and "indistinguishable from background lights beyond 11,712 ft".

I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.

I wonder if Farkers ever read the stuff they link to? Keep up the good derp and you get a price if you can hit the cockpit window of this at cruising altitude of 35k ft.

[cdn-www.airliners.net image 850x573]


What's your point? Takeoff and landing are exactly the times when this is both most likely and most dangerous. I don't really care if it's impossible to cause a distraction at 35k feet, because that's when the plane is just plowing along on autopilot, and even something that blinds the pilots for several minutes wouldn't be a safety risk.

Also, the vast majority of the population lives within about 10 miles of an airport of some kind.
 
2014-06-20 05:18:10 PM  

AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?


Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.
 
2014-06-20 05:21:32 PM  

hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.


Pointer lasers on guns are <5mw.  Not even really dangerous to you even if pointed at your eye.
 
2014-06-20 05:22:47 PM  

AndreMA: BStorm: AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: If you think that pointing a laser at someone on the ground isn't a big deal, it is easy to find stories of people getting charged with assault and battery simply from lasting a police car. Lasers are a big deal. It is like saying knives aren't a big deal, I know what I'm talking about because the blade in my Swiss Army knife is only 1" long.

Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Generally speaking, officers who use the threat of lethal force (such as pointing a firearm at someone, laser or not) in situations where it is not necessary would be subject to significantly more serious charges than simple assault.

The situations where people have been charged with assault and battery for pointing lasers at officers usually happen because the perpetrators intentionally pointed them at an officer's face in an attempt to deliberately blind them. Not really much different than throwing acid or poking them with a stick other than the ability to do it from a greater distance.

Unfortunately the determination of what is "necessary" is often in the hands of the same organization that used the force to begin with. There's no shortage of police-shot video of drug raids where even after everyone is prone on the floor with hands visible, red dots are playing on them.


My first thought is you're a Carousel Beast alt (or less likely, friend/cohort/copycat), but it's entirely possible you're simply unable to tell the difference between police abusing their authority and police lawfully using reasonable precautions in what is still a potentially dangerous situation.

Either way, the situation you're talking about has little to do with the original topic so you're on your own to figure it out from here, sparky.
 
2014-06-20 05:24:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.


In most of the videos I'm referring to, the laser was swinging wildly around... not something most people would called "aimed". Perhaps practice diverges from training.

I somehow bet that if I were to shoot a policeman in the foot -- even if it was clear that I was attempting to wound rather than kill -- I'd still be convicted of attempted murder. Not that I'd ever do that, of course.
 
2014-06-20 05:25:35 PM  

topcon: hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.

Pointer lasers on guns are <5mw.  Not even really dangerous to you even if pointed at your eye.


That's why I was careful to specify "similarly powered" -- and as hardinparamedic pointed out, I should also have specified "similar collimation"
 
2014-06-20 05:26:28 PM  

Combustion: Calmamity: Why isn't the reaction to this "Oh look, some asshole is pointing a laser at us. What a dick.What's for dinner?"

Umm excuse me?? There are CHILDREN on that plane!! Maybe UNBORN CHILDREN!! Think of them!!!


I assure you, I was thinking of the children. That's why I was pointing the laser pointer at the plane full of the noisy little shiat factories.
 
2014-06-20 05:28:20 PM  

AndreMA: and as hardinparamedic pointed out, I should also have specified "similar collimation"


That's the word I was looking for.
 
2014-06-20 05:30:06 PM  

Tobin_Lam: hinten: Interestingly, all the articles linked to talk about airplanes landing or taking off around airports and/or helicopters.

Which makes sense since it would be exceedingly difficult (meaning impossible) to hit the cockpit window of a 747 when it is at 39k altitude. One of the articles that people are quoting here calls lasers "no distraction" and "indistinguishable from background lights beyond 11,712 ft".

I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.

I wonder if Farkers ever read the stuff they link to? Keep up the good derp and you get a price if you can hit the cockpit window of this at cruising altitude of 35k ft.

[cdn-www.airliners.net image 850x573]

If your laser is powerful enough, hitting the windshield isn't really that hard. Jut keep it pointed at the aircraft and the beam will likely wander across the windshield on its own.



You are talking out of experience or out of your ass? Please indicate at what angle you have to stand to the airplane cruising at 35k ft.
 
2014-06-20 05:34:02 PM  

hinten: You are talking out of experience or out of your ass? Please indicate at what angle you have to stand to the airplane cruising at 35k ft.


Most strikes on passenger jets are on critical, sterile cockpit phases of flight, like take-off and landing. The exact time where you need to be able to see, and NOT go into inadvertent IFC or be blind.
 
2014-06-20 05:40:24 PM  
Whatever the level of danger, it's a dumb thing to do. Let's hope it's a passing fad like dropping bricks and rocks from bridges was a number of years ago here (well, in MA where I lived at the time). That caused a number of serious injuries and fatalities.
 
2014-06-20 05:54:55 PM  

hardinparamedic: gfid: I think he's asking for actual examples of where someone shining a laser at an aircraft caused an accident.  I don't doubt that doing so creates a serious hazard, but I have not heard of any specific examples either.

Up thread, I linked an example from this year where a laser strike incident disabled a Flight Paramedic, and rendered a rural air ambulance unable to complete it's mission. The risks of laser strikes are so severe that they warrant pre-emptive action to prevent them and punish people who do things asinine like lase air ambulances.

The Air Industry doesn't work on "Well, it's okay until an accident occurs, THEN we'll fix it". Aircrew Risk Management is a big deal, and so is preventing accidents before they occur. Because those accidents are overwhelmingly fatal to the aircrew, patient, and or passengers when they do.


Okay, I'm not reading whole threads today, but I did look for and found your link.

I don't know how people even find the time to do that.  Putting aside the risk to the pilot and the people on board - imagine if you or a loved one was being airlifted to a hospital with a life-threatening condition - I think it would be boring to sit around outside waiting for aircraft to go by and it would probably even be hard to hit the cockpit with your little laser pointer.

Lock any asshole that does this up for 25 years - at least
 
2014-06-20 06:29:35 PM  

AndreMA: hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.

In most of the videos I'm referring to, the laser was swinging wildly around... not something most people would called "aimed". Perhaps practice diverges from training.

I somehow bet that if I were to shoot a policeman in the foot -- even if it was clear that I was attempting to wound rather than kill -- I'd still be convicted of attempted murder. Not that I'd ever do that, of course.


That's an entirely different kind of situation. We aren't talking about those kinds of situations.
 
2014-06-20 07:05:58 PM  

Tobin_Lam: AndreMA: hardinparamedic: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

Lasers used in gun sights don't diffuse like a laser pointer does. They remain highly focused within their effective range. And police are taught to aim at the center of mass, not the face. They also don't use them to disable someone.

In most of the videos I'm referring to, the laser was swinging wildly around... not something most people would called "aimed". Perhaps practice diverges from training.

I somehow bet that if I were to shoot a policeman in the foot -- even if it was clear that I was attempting to wound rather than kill -- I'd still be convicted of attempted murder. Not that I'd ever do that, of course.

That's an entirely different kind of situation. We aren't talking about those kinds of situations.


Aiming a laser at a police car (an arrestable offense) is entirely different from aiming a laser at an aircraft (also an arrestable offense)? I see them as rather analogous and was comparing it with another instance where lasers are aimed at people without good cause.

I don't find those entirely - or even substantially - different situations. I'll take your arbitrary declaration and that there's some fundamental difference as a concession.
 
2014-06-20 07:42:05 PM  

hinten: Tobin_Lam: hinten: Interestingly, all the articles linked to talk about airplanes landing or taking off around airports and/or helicopters.

Which makes sense since it would be exceedingly difficult (meaning impossible) to hit the cockpit window of a 747 when it is at 39k altitude. One of the articles that people are quoting here calls lasers "no distraction" and "indistinguishable from background lights beyond 11,712 ft".

I am all for coming down hard on people aiming lasers at planes/helicopters but let's be clear that this is only an issue around airports and helicopters flying over cities and residential areas.

I wonder if Farkers ever read the stuff they link to? Keep up the good derp and you get a price if you can hit the cockpit window of this at cruising altitude of 35k ft.

[cdn-www.airliners.net image 850x573]

If your laser is powerful enough, hitting the windshield isn't really that hard. Jut keep it pointed at the aircraft and the beam will likely wander across the windshield on its own.


You are talking out of experience or out of your ass? Please indicate at what angle you have to stand to the airplane cruising at 35k ft.


Assuming  no intermediate  clouds, I can easily see to the ground from 45,000 ft. (Max altitude for jet I fly). At night it is possible to distinguish individual light sources. So normal intelligence can conclude that if normal light can reach to that altitude, coherent light  can too.
 
2014-06-20 07:43:19 PM  

Carousel Beast: While your attempt at framing the debate is laudable, you addressed absolutely nothing I actually said in any of my posts.



You said the following, which I was addressing.  It's not put your eye out hysteria.

"Is it bad? Absolutely - but this whole wave of crap is nothing more than regurgitated "you could put an eye out!" hysteria. "
 
2014-06-20 07:58:58 PM  
pilots should wear an eyepatch like a pirate so only one eye gets affected
 
2014-06-20 08:37:29 PM  
How stupid to you have to be to actually get caught doing this?
 
2014-06-20 09:01:48 PM  

AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?


You don't see a difference between pointing a laser pointer at a vehicle and a person?
 
2014-06-20 09:19:19 PM  

trappedspirit: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

You don't see a difference between pointing a laser pointer at a vehicle and a person?


I see a strong similarity between pointing a laser at one vehicle (an aircraft) that contains people, a different sort of vehicles (police car) that contains people, and people.
 
2014-06-20 09:30:42 PM  

AndreMA: trappedspirit: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

You don't see a difference between pointing a laser pointer at a vehicle and a person?

I see a strong similarity between pointing a laser at one vehicle (an aircraft) that contains people, a different sort of vehicles (police car) that contains people, and people.


Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.
 
2014-06-20 09:52:41 PM  
I'm a pilot. Never been lased. I believe almost all strikes are intentional not accidental as some might think. There simply aren't enough lasers out there randomly flashing upward to catch airplanes. The sky is 99% empty, even near airports. These farkers are aiming. Don't have to hit your eye. Simply lighting up the cabin is distraction enough when landing at night. Don't kid yourself, most planes cannot land themselves. That bit is still done by the pilot.
 
2014-06-20 10:00:55 PM  
It is America. Just give everyone on the plane laser pointers so they can shoot back. Should be easy for the cops to catch someone on the ground that just got blinded 5 minutes earlier.
 
2014-06-20 10:16:58 PM  

davynelson: How stupid to you have to be to actually get caught doing this?


It's not that hard for a pilot to trace a laser back to the source. Especially if they have been trained to do so (A lot of aircrew are ex-military).

This thread:

Pilots/Aircrew: This is why lasers are bad to point at aircraft.
"Learned" Scholars: It can't be that bad! Show me ONE crashed airplane! I mean, this is just another panic.
Pilots/Aircrew: Yeah, this is what can happen, and we're trying to prevent some asshole from crashing a plane.

old.onefte.com
 
2014-06-20 11:14:14 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.


Or it may hit you in the eye. There's probably a greater chance of that from a range of 10'-20' in a police raid than there is of any strike on the glass of a moving vehicle at much greater (hundreds to thousands of feet) range. And the light scattered on the glass that enters your eye will be of much lower intensity than a direct hit.
 
2014-06-20 11:39:26 PM  

AndreMA: trappedspirit: AndreMA: Wouldn't police laser gun sights painting peaceful, non-resisting people then be excessive force, if pointing a similarly powered laser at a police car is considered assault?

You don't see a difference between pointing a laser pointer at a vehicle and a person?

I see a strong similarity between pointing a laser at one vehicle (an aircraft) that contains people, a different sort of vehicles (police car) that contains people, and people.


Yeah, the similarity is...wait for it...a laser.  Are we playing lowest common denominator?  I didn't know that show was still on air.  So, what's the difference between a person becoming momentarily blinded and the operator of a multi-ton vehicle becoming momentarily blinded?
 
2014-06-20 11:40:44 PM  

aseras: Luckily it's still legal to shoot the control towers. Easier too. Traffic controllers don't needs to see, do they?


touche:P
 
2014-06-21 12:18:13 AM  

AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.

Or it may hit you in the eye. There's probably a greater chance of that from a range of 10'-20' in a police raid than there is of any strike on the glass of a moving vehicle at much greater (hundreds to thousands of feet) range. And the light scattered on the glass that enters your eye will be of much lower intensity than a direct hit.


So what if you get hit in the eye? You're going to be on the ground in handcuffs with no opportunity to crash a vehicle into someone else. A laser intentionally aimed at an aircraft is far more likely to hit the cockpit glass than someone accidentally getting hit in the eye from 20' away when the aim point is several degrees away from the eye. That glass lighting up bright green is going to have far greater consequences than the police accidentally lasting your eye. I have an idea. Go get a friend to point a laser at you while you drive towards a tree at night. Then get your friend to pointed a loaded gun at you with a laser sight. Let us know which one blinded you.
 
2014-06-21 01:33:30 AM  

hardinparamedic: hinten: You are talking out of experience or out of your ass? Please indicate at what angle you have to stand to the airplane cruising at 35k ft.

Most strikes on passenger jets are on critical, sterile cockpit phases of flight, like take-off and landing. The exact time where you need to be able to see, and NOT go into inadvertent IFC or be blind.


Your point, I made it.
 
2014-06-21 01:59:07 AM  

Tobin_Lam: AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.

Or it may hit you in the eye. There's probably a greater chance of that from a range of 10'-20' in a police raid than there is of any strike on the glass of a moving vehicle at much greater (hundreds to thousands of feet) range. And the light scattered on the glass that enters your eye will be of much lower intensity than a direct hit.

So what if you get hit in the eye? You're going to be on the ground in handcuffs with no opportunity to crash a vehicle into someone else. A laser intentionally aimed at an aircraft is far more likely to hit the cockpit glass than someone accidentally getting hit in the eye from 20' away when the aim point is several degrees away from the eye. That glass lighting up bright green is going to have far greater consequences than the police accidentally lasting your eye. I have an idea. Go get a friend to point a laser at you while you drive towards a tree at night. Then get your friend to pointed a loaded gun at you with a laser sight. Let us know which one blinded you.


what dafuq?  I would hope my friend wouldn't aim a loaded gun at me even if I asked him to.
 
2014-06-21 03:18:12 AM  

hinten: Your point, I made it.


You minimized the actual rate of occurrence, and the risk of this, unless I read your post wrong. Both are not a good idea to do.
 
2014-06-21 08:47:05 AM  

Tobin_Lam: AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.

Or it may hit you in the eye. There's probably a greater chance of that from a range of 10'-20' in a police raid than there is of any strike on the glass of a moving vehicle at much greater (hundreds to thousands of feet) range. And the light scattered on the glass that enters your eye will be of much lower intensity than a direct hit.

So what if you get hit in the eye? You're going to be on the ground in handcuffs with no opportunity to crash a vehicle into someone else. A laser intentionally aimed at an aircraft is far more likely to hit the cockpit glass than someone accidentally getting hit in the eye from 20' away when the aim point is several degrees away from the eye. That glass lighting up bright green is going to have far greater consequences than the police accidentally lasting your eye. I have an idea. Go get a friend to point a laser at you while you drive towards a tree at night. Then get your friend to pointed a loaded gun at you with a laser sight. Let us know which one blinded you.


Why would the gun need to be loaded? If you're making an oblique threat, you can do better than that. I believe that "DIAF" is the petty farkism you're looking for?

As I've said, the firearms in the videos that I was referring to were not what any sane person would consider to be "aimed" -- the lasers were panning wildly around, not just playing on the center of mass of the person (who was no threat in any case at that point).
 
2014-06-21 05:29:14 PM  

gfid: Tobin_Lam: AndreMA: Tobin_Lam: Pointing a laser at someone and pointing it at a window they are using at night are completely different things. It is extremely obvious when you are in a vehicle but you may never even notice a laser pointed at your body.

Or it may hit you in the eye. There's probably a greater chance of that from a range of 10'-20' in a police raid than there is of any strike on the glass of a moving vehicle at much greater (hundreds to thousands of feet) range. And the light scattered on the glass that enters your eye will be of much lower intensity than a direct hit.

So what if you get hit in the eye? You're going to be on the ground in handcuffs with no opportunity to crash a vehicle into someone else. A laser intentionally aimed at an aircraft is far more likely to hit the cockpit glass than someone accidentally getting hit in the eye from 20' away when the aim point is several degrees away from the eye. That glass lighting up bright green is going to have far greater consequences than the police accidentally lasting your eye. I have an idea. Go get a friend to point a laser at you while you drive towards a tree at night. Then get your friend to pointed a loaded gun at you with a laser sight. Let us know which one blinded you.

what dafuq?  I would hope my friend wouldn't aim a loaded gun at me even if I asked him to.


If he's dumb enough to do that, hopefully he's dumb enough to get shot.
 
2014-06-21 08:26:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: hinten: Your point, I made it.

You minimized the actual rate of occurrence, and the risk of this, unless I read your post wrong. Both are not a good idea to do.



I guess I was arguing subtlety which is wrong to do in today's media and on Fark. Mea culpa.
 
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