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(CNN)   Massachusetts sets the state minimum wage to $11, suck it red state workers   (money.cnn.com) divider line 37
    More: Cool, Massachusetts, minimum wages, highest state  
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735 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jun 2014 at 2:45 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-06-20 12:04:35 PM
8 votes:

cman: Mass just ensured their economic recovery cratered their economy.


FTFY. This will be overturned by popular demand within 6 months, because businesses will quit hiring.

Then there will be no demand for goods and services, and then MA will watch their tax revenues dwindle, and then they'll look to states like Mississippi to see how to fix the problem.
2014-06-20 02:03:40 PM
7 votes:

Dimensio: The Republican response:
members.iglou.com


If you honestly believe that's a real picture, and that there is an amplifier where Herp and Derp can be turned to Potato, then I pity you.
2014-06-20 11:21:10 AM
4 votes:
www.chicagonow.com
2014-06-20 03:50:34 PM
3 votes:
l.wigflip.com
2014-06-20 03:06:43 PM
3 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Massachusetts has finally conceded that the only way they can pay for their liberal government bloat is to collect more revenue, which they can only do if there are higher wages to tax.


Maybe Massachusetts can hire you a geographer.
2014-06-20 12:59:27 PM
3 votes:

Shostie: [www.chicagonow.com image 503x283]


The Republican response:
members.iglou.com
2014-06-20 03:47:04 PM
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: sweetmelissa31: CPennypacker: Enjoy your $11 hamburgers, Massholes

You live in NYC and you're worried about $11 burgers? I used to live there, and I recall $12 shots of vodka at bars.

You went to the wrong bars.


I went to the ones that would sell alcohol to 16 year olds.
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-06-20 03:40:03 PM
2 votes:

sweetmelissa31: All the restaurants in Boston are going to close shop and move to RI.


fark that.  They're moving to China.
2014-06-20 03:30:35 PM
2 votes:
Oh great now hamburgers will cost $1,000 each!
2014-06-20 03:18:54 PM
2 votes:

CPennypacker: Enjoy your $11 hamburgers, Massholes


1-media-cdn.foolz.us

That is not how economies work stupid human.
2014-06-20 12:41:22 PM
2 votes:
This will ruin our Commonwealth just like taking the lead on same-sex marriage did
2014-06-20 07:12:22 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: They would continue to pay fair market wages, which would go down absent the safety net as it would increase the number of "desperate" workers and the number of hours those workers would want.


Wow...that sounds like an awesome society
2014-06-20 05:31:29 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: raerae1980: My employer can certainly handle the addition in pay.

Then why does your employer have to be forced to pay more?


Because she doesn't have the power to bargain for a wage comparable to her marginal product of labor. Her employer will tell her to take a hike, and find someone with less dignity or more hunger.
That difference, the difference between what she produces and what she's paid, is a surplus to her employer. If he paid a wage that would prevail in a free market, in which everyone had equal bargaining power, the only difference between that economy and this one is he would make less and she would make more. Every other transaction would be made. No deadweight loss.
You could replicate our economy exactly, if you started with a free market with everyone having equal bargaining power, and then you gave every employer a gun and told him it was OK to hold it to poor peoples' heads and steal some money from them. Every transaction made in one economy would be the same as every transaction made in the other economy, except for the way one side is taking from another. I don't know why we call it stealing in one case and freedom in another. We could switch the labels if we want, because the two economies are the same.
2014-06-20 05:07:00 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: why don't they do so voluntarily?


Really, man?
2014-06-20 04:31:46 PM
1 votes:
hmm yes if I invent a complex enough analogy with enough numbers, I will definitely convince the guy who thinks the poor should be lining the piss gutters of the wealthy that a small increase in minimum wage won't destroy the economy
2014-06-20 04:07:07 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: in the townhall link.


Seems legit.
2014-06-20 04:00:44 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: What should happen in this situation?


Find a strategy that doesn't suck.
2014-06-20 03:58:15 PM
1 votes:

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Bareefer Obonghit: This is why I'm surprised. In conclusion, the correct response to his last post would have been, "Your mom is dead weight."

It's not for DSC's edification. He's a lost cause, and his mom might be a perfectly nice lady whose honor I don't want to impugn.

I just happen to have some data on this one, so I thought I'd share, and in doing so, my libby lib brethren can spread the wealth by using this the next time Drunk Conservative Uncle Jimbo starts yelling at the dinner table.


I'm just watching to see how long he goes while ignoring all the links to actual economists debunking his theories at this point. How many times can people like you and chimp_ninja post proof that he's wrong, from real economists, before he has to address that? I mean, the quotes directly address his point and prove he's wrong.

Also, about his mom, I'm sure she's fine and all but I don't think a common gypsy hooker would mind an impugning.
2014-06-20 03:55:35 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: What should happen in this situation?


Hey guys! Hey guys! He's arguing about macroeconomics by using a single microeconomics transaction!

DSC, here's what you don't get. Yes, you, the deli owner, no longer employ the Sandwich Board guy.

But, with an $11 minimum wage, ALL OF THE OTHER FARKING BUSINESSES AROUND YOU, and you yourself, are going to be making more money because people will have more disposable income. One of those businesses will meet their increased demand by hiring on new workers, including (possibly) your sandwich board guy. Who now has more money to spend on sandwiches from you, resulting in higher profits for you, increased demand for your sandwiches, which you pass on to your supply companies, etc. and so on.

That's why when people talk about MACROeconomics, we often use data across large scales of people and long stretches of time. Because policy is set at the macro-level, not the micro-level.
2014-06-20 03:49:07 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: I do find it funny that you easily dismiss a townhall link, yet seem to think a website called "raisetheminimumwage.org" and a link from Berkeley have credibility.


Wait.  You think an article from Town Hall is more reliable than a professional publication in The American Economic Review from two Princeton economists that happens to be hosted on a Berkeley server, among other locations?

I think I've found our problem.
2014-06-20 03:45:11 PM
1 votes:

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Debeo Summa Credo: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Debeo Summa Credo: much in Massachusetts, so the negative impact will be marginal. But it will be negative, as it nearly always is.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-loss

Don't bother. Your data is outdated and based on flawed methodological assumptions, just like the research done on austerity.

DERP!! Your data is biased and would only be believed by left wing idiots.

Google "deadweight loss of minimum wage".

I know how stupid this was, my fellow Farkers, but I did it. I farking googled what DSC told me to.


You're better than this. This is why I never offer anything but sarcasm, belittlement and 'Your Mom' jokes. It's never going to change his mind, so why not just ridicule instead? But you know this already. This is why I'm surprised. In conclusion, the correct response to his last post would have been, "Your mom is dead weight."
2014-06-20 03:39:14 PM
1 votes:
All the restaurants in Boston are going to close shop and move to RI.
2014-06-20 03:38:03 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Debeo Summa Credo: much in Massachusetts, so the negative impact will be marginal. But it will be negative, as it nearly always is.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-loss

Don't bother. Your data is outdated and based on flawed methodological assumptions, just like the research done on austerity.

DERP!! Your data is biased and would only be believed by left wing idiots.

Google "deadweight loss of minimum wage".


I know how stupid this was, my fellow Farkers, but I did it. I farking googled what DSC told me to.

Allow me to present the first five links. It's like a Buzzfeed listicle, but this will actually be funny.

1.  http://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microeconomics/co n sumer-producer-surplus/deadweight-loss-tutorial/v/minimum-wage-and-pri ce-floors

First we have a Khan Academy lesson in microeconomics. For all its faults, Khan Academy isn't totally terrible. Check out the comments.

2.  http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/politicalcalculations/2013/03/ 0 3/the-deadweight-loss-of-minimum-wage-hikes-n1524753/page/full

A Townhall link. Nice.

3.  http://catalog.flatworldknowledge.com/bookhub/reader/2992?e=coopermic r o-ch10_s02

Another ideologically biased site without much in the way of raw data that consistently fails to account for changes in the market as a result of the higher minimum wage. It focuses solely on the labor-work transaction (in which an employer believes she has a set amount of work that needs to be performed). It does not take into account an increase in demand (and therefore an increase in the amount of socially necessary labor to be performed).

4.  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/deadweightloss.asp

Oh investopedia. More ideology, low actual numbers.

5.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

It's sad when Wikipedia is the best source on the list.

Now, let's look at some actual data!

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

Oh my God! Could it be that the reason Townhall and Investopedia don't have any concrete examples of a deadweight loss is because THE FARKING DATA DOESN'T SUPPORT THAT THEORY? Quelle surprise!

Conservatives, do not fark with the quants. They have your number. They have calculated exactly how farking wrong you are.
2014-06-20 03:35:04 PM
1 votes:

CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: whidbey: This is getting tiresome.

1. There is no evidence that raising a minimum wage will suddenly "make everything more expensive"
2. People deserve to be paid decent wages or they shouldn't be working

It is getting tiresome.

1) every economist in the world will tell you that the cost of inputs will work its way into the cost of outputs, either directly as producers raise prices or indirectly as increased costs drive producers or potential producers from the market, reducing supply
2) people deserve to be paid whatever they can mutually agree with an employer. If you think you deserve $11 but can only get $9, don't take the job. Nobody owes you a living.

Society as a whole has to foot the bill of picking up the slack of poor wages, so it makes sense for society to set a price floor. If you need labor, you have to pay X, not just for the benefit of the person being hired but also to ease the burdon that purson puts on society. Labor is an input, inputs cost money and unfortunately can be and is regulated.

I agree that it is unfortunate that it is regulated(in regard to minimum wages). It's harmful regulation that does more damage to society than it helps.

The government shouldn't decide the price of an input, the market should.

Why should an employer pay someone $11 per hour when that person is only bringing $10 per hour in benefit to the employer?

Because we don't live in a purely free market. There's too much moral hazard.

Maybe the workers should just unionize then? Thats the free market solution right there. Consolidate the supply and jack up the price.


But Unions are unfair to the business.  People are supposed to take what their betters deem appropriate for them and subsist off the scraps they may or may not be able to afford.
2014-06-20 03:34:22 PM
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Sara Lemos


Obviously not an economist since she contradicts our expert.
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-06-20 03:31:37 PM
1 votes:

nijika: Oh great now hamburgers will cost $1,000 each!


If that works, why don't we make hamburgers $1 mil each!!

lolololo I made a good point

//pfft
2014-06-20 03:31:13 PM
1 votes:

nijika: Oh great now hamburgers will cost $1,000 each!


It's Obama's sekrit plan to turn us into subsistence farmers!
2014-06-20 03:26:53 PM
1 votes:

somedude210: isn't that essentially how you go from Capitalism to Communism?


Or feudalism, which is how trickle-down economics work.

Obama's Reptiloid Master: When demand is high and supply is low, there's just no time to hire additional workers or order additional production. Everyone is too busy lifting bootstraps to meet that available demand. Buckling down, as it were. Buckling down while lifting bootstraps. The Protestant work ethic.


If they were Puritan Pilgrims like the first people in this country, their boots AND hats would have buckles on the straps already.  It's how you can tell who actually deserves to be here.
2014-06-20 03:22:38 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Your opponent has gone on record here saying the rich deserve to be rich, and that Wall Street didn't do anything wrong that caused the 2008 (what recession?) Recession, so I'm getting a kick, etc...


I know. I took him off my ignore list because I thought, "I have got to see which hole in the chicken this numbskull is farking today."

I didn't expect the answer to be, "All of them, Katie."
2014-06-20 03:21:36 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: If you think you deserve $11 but can only get $9, don't take the job. Nobody owes you a living.


In the meantime, what is our minimum wage worker supposed to eat? Bootstraps? Unicorn steaks?

Do you even externalities, bro?
2014-06-20 03:18:50 PM
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Lemme lay some math on you.

WidgetCorp makes widgets, hence the name. WidgetCorp can make 100 widgets for $1,000. WidgetCorp then sells these at wholesale prices to ConMart. ConMart pays $1,050 for every 100 widgets. In order to break even, ConMart has to sell widgets for a price of $10.50. They mark it up to $19.99, which covers overhead for having the store open, marketing, workers salaries, etc. On that basis, ConMart makes $5.00 for every widget sold.

With the minimum wage increase, ConMart now makes $3.50 on every widget sold. Their profit margin goes down. ConMart hires an economist who tells them that the market will probably bear a $0.50 increase in widget prices. Sure, some outlying consumers might be priced out of the widget market, but most consumers will gladly shoulder a $0.50 increase. To top it off, the minimum wage hike has not priced in more consumers than ConMart lost, who can now afford the $20.49 cost of widgets. All of a sudden, ConMart's profit margins are even higher than before.

LOL!  Math is *hard*!


Huh?  If ConMart is selling more units at $4 profit, they may make more money than selling fewer units at $5 profit.

This isn't rocket science.  The minimum wage increase isn't applied to one company.  Many other companies would also raise the pay of many workers, and for people right at the poverty line, nearly all of that additional salary is likely to be expended.

Math isn't that hard.  When you go back for your GED in Law, make sure to sign up for some after you finish North American Geography.
2014-06-20 03:18:07 PM
1 votes:

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Debeo Summa Credo: much in Massachusetts, so the negative impact will be marginal. But it will be negative, as it nearly always is.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-loss

Don't bother. Your data is outdated and based on flawed methodological assumptions, just like the research done on austerity.


Your opponent has gone on record here saying the rich deserve to be rich, and that Wall Street didn't do anything wrong that caused the 2008 (what recession?) Recession, so I'm getting a kick, etc...
2014-06-20 03:06:27 PM
1 votes:

palelizard: Obama's Reptiloid Master: palelizard: Gonz: FTFY. This will be overturned by popular demand within 6 months, because businesses will quit hiring.

When do you think business hire people?

Obviously businesses hire people when they are sitting on a nice chunk of profit and demand for their products is at market equilibrium, because that's when they have free time to conduct interviews.

That makes sense. Everyone knows time is money.


When demand is high and supply is low, there's just no time to hire additional workers or order additional production. Everyone is too busy lifting bootstraps to meet that available demand. Buckling down, as it were. Buckling down while lifting bootstraps. The Protestant work ethic.
2014-06-20 03:05:34 PM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Why "suck it red state workers"? This just means there will be more jobs for red staters. Red state workers should be psyched!!


Yeah, all those service jobs just gonna move out of state
2014-06-20 02:50:58 PM
1 votes:
At least red state workers have the Right To Work, amiright?
2014-06-20 12:56:10 PM
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Massachusetts has finally conceded that the only way they can pay for their liberal government bloat is to collect more revenue, which they can only do if there are higher wages to tax.

It's brilliant, really.


Yeah, look at those red states, with their total lack of poor people and magnificently balanced budgets!!
2014-06-20 12:19:07 PM
1 votes:

Gonz: cman: Mass just ensured their economic recovery cratered their economy.

FTFY. This will be overturned by popular demand within 6 months, because businesses will quit hiring.

Then there will be no demand for goods and services, and then MA will watch their tax revenues dwindle, and then they'll look to states like Mississippi to see how to fix the problem.


One of these days this doom and gloom scenario will come to pass.  Sure, it's always been wrong before, but THIS TIME yer F`CKED libtardos!!
 
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