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(CBS Miami)   Investigative reporter discovers if you fight your red light camera ticket in the city's special red light camera court you might not get a fair trial, even though the city attorney spends several seconds considering your case   (miami.cbslocal.com) divider line 93
    More: Florida, red light cameras, Ramon Irizarri, judicial circuit, Florida Statutes  
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8149 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jun 2014 at 2:29 PM (4 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-19 11:28:02 AM
blog.motorists.org
 
2014-06-19 12:10:26 PM
It's stories like these that make me glad I don't drive. I'm a Walker.
 
2014-06-19 12:21:07 PM

Sybarite: [blog.motorists.org image 525x200]


You never go ass-to-mouth.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-19 01:20:12 PM
Traffic enforcement has always been a sort of tax, especially for smaller towns.

It's probably better that they use video and try to stick it to people who actually violate traffic rules instead of doing it the old way and nailing anyone with an out of town plate.
 
2014-06-19 01:41:52 PM
Would have been nice if they'd at least have pointed to one instance where the person should have gotten off, but didn't.  The only example they give, they admit the video shows the person rolling through a red light.
 
2014-06-19 02:08:41 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The only example they give, they admit the video shows the person rolling through a red light.


If you read further down in the article, it says that rolling through the stop sign is actually legal in florida for a right turn on red.
 
2014-06-19 02:35:40 PM
The judge:

theinfosphere.org
 
2014-06-19 02:36:20 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Sybarite: [blog.motorists.org image 525x200]

You never go ass-to-mouth.


I thought it was ok sometimes.
 
2014-06-19 02:36:49 PM
Rollin'  Rollin' rollin' through a stop sign!!
 
2014-06-19 02:36:50 PM
Pick up that can citizen.
 
2014-06-19 02:39:51 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Sybarite: [blog.motorists.org image 525x200]

You never go ass-to-mouth.


You never go attorney-to-mouth.
 
2014-06-19 02:40:54 PM
DNRTFA - Don't need to.

Fark Haines City, Florida.

It was raining.  I was not speeding. Vehicle behind me was tailgating; would have been unable to stop without collision occurring.

/I fought the law
//the law won
 
2014-06-19 02:40:59 PM
I have news for this investigative reporter: all Miami-Dade courts are kangaroo courts.  Don't pay the fine for 60 days, so you can fight it in county traffic court?  (where you will still lose)  That might work if you don't first get pulled over and then arrested for failure to appear.
 
2014-06-19 02:42:16 PM
Don't put plates on your car - don't worry about camera tickets. Don't register your used car in your name - no camera tickets.
/follow the rules - you can get a ticket.
 
2014-06-19 02:43:15 PM

Walker: It's stories like these that make me glad I don't drive. I'm a Walker.


img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-06-19 02:43:16 PM
I got a red light camera ticket a few years back. I fought it, and all through the process the court kept trying to get me to change my plea. They tried at the arraignment, they tried when scheduling the trial, they tried pre-trial. Finally I got before the judge. My prosecutor was not an attorney, nor did he work for the court. He was a Redflex employee. I raised all sorts of objections as to why this is not legal, as well as challenges to my ticket -- all overruled, and I was found guilty.

The system is totally fixed, but at least I had the pleasure of costing the court at least as much in court time as my fine. They didn't make any money off me. If everyone did this, camera tickets would disappear. The enablers are the ones that just write a check and send it in. If you get a camera ticket, blame them.
 
2014-06-19 02:47:08 PM
Had to chime in on two things.

First, a real kanagroo court is in Livonia Michigan.  I got a ticket for not stoping leaving work, but I did.  My view was actually obstructed by a burm and I took extra caution exiting after I made my complete stop.  Only when I got to the road, a cop was coming down the street and assumed I just sailed out.  I took it to court with photos of the obstruction and the "judge" said that it didn't matter.  THIS is why I have avoided Livoinia Michigan at all costs anymore.

Secondly, I just moved to the Chicago area and we have a ton of these red light cameras.  I've already been dinged three times.  True the camera doesn't lie and I did not make complete stops before turning.  Now I just don't turn unless the light is green.  It pisses people off, but I'm sick of the BS.
 
2014-06-19 02:47:59 PM

flaminio: I got a red light camera ticket a few years back. I fought it, and all through the process the court kept trying to get me to change my plea. They tried at the arraignment, they tried when scheduling the trial, they tried pre-trial. Finally I got before the judge. My prosecutor was not an attorney, nor did he work for the court. He was a Redflex employee. I raised all sorts of objections as to why this is not legal, as well as challenges to my ticket -- all overruled, and I was found guilty.

The system is totally fixed, but at least I had the pleasure of costing the court at least as much in court time as my fine. They didn't make any money off me. If everyone did this, camera tickets would disappear. The enablers are the ones that just write a check and send it in. If you get a camera ticket, blame them.


This.

 Until the ticket price sky rocketed to cover the fees...
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-19 02:50:17 PM
labman:

If you read further down in the article, it says that rolling through the stop sign is actually legal in florida for a right turn on red.

No, it isn't.  The law explicitly states that a full stop is required, even though it no longer has to be before the line.
 
2014-06-19 02:53:41 PM

ned4spd8874: Secondly, I just moved to the Chicago area and we have a ton of these red light cameras.  I've already been dinged three times.  True the camera doesn't lie and I did not make complete stops before turning.  Now I just don't turn unless the light is green.  It pisses people off, but I'm sick of the BS.


I'm the same way. I've been burned once before and I'm not paying another friggin ticket. I don't care if the right turn on red is legal and I can see clearly there's not a car coming: I'm not making the turn no matter what. I've had drivers behind me honking their horns and screaming at me: I'm not turning.
 
2014-06-19 02:55:16 PM

Fark like a Barsoomian: Sin_City_Superhero: Sybarite: [blog.motorists.org image 525x200]

You never go ass-to-mouth.

You never go attorney-to-mouth.


*shudder*
 
2014-06-19 02:58:30 PM

flaminio: I got a red light camera ticket a few years back. I fought it, and all through the process the court kept trying to get me to change my plea. They tried at the arraignment, they tried when scheduling the trial, they tried pre-trial. Finally I got before the judge. My prosecutor was not an attorney, nor did he work for the court. He was a Redflex employee. I raised all sorts of objections as to why this is not legal, as well as challenges to my ticket -- all overruled, and I was found guilty.

The system is totally fixed, but at least I had the pleasure of costing the court at least as much in court time as my fine. They didn't make any money off me. If everyone did this, camera tickets would disappear. The enablers are the ones that just write a check and send it in. If you get a camera ticket, blame them.


Iowa now charges $100 to fight it. I found out because i just got my first one last week, an they've changed language on the ticket to get around some of the ways people used to fight them.

Debating how much of a dick I want to be. I didn't stop while turning right on a red. Looking at Iowa's laws, I was supposed to make a full stop. So I am in the wrong, but these cameras are blatantly unconstitutional.
 
2014-06-19 02:58:41 PM

svanmeter: Don't put plates on your car - don't worry about camera tickets. Don't register your used car in your name - no camera tickets.
/follow the rules - you can get a ticket.


back when i was stationed at ramstein, we were having a going away (retirement?) dinner for a master sgt in our shop. the chief master sgt was giving her speech about how much she'd miss him, etc, etc, then began telling a story about receiving a speeding camera ticket...

she paid the ticket, but realized it was issued during a time she was on vacation. she requested the photo (think she had to pay extra to get the photo) from the camera. long story short, the enlarged photo-on-a-plaque of the master sgt behind the wheel of the chief's car, which he was given permission to use while she was on vacation, made a great and unique going-away gift! as well as a good story to tell in front of our mostly inebriated crew. i miss our squadron functions.
 
2014-06-19 02:59:07 PM

vpb: labman:

If you read further down in the article, it says that rolling through the stop sign is actually legal in florida for a right turn on red.

No, it isn't.  The law explicitly states that a full stop is required, even though it no longer has to be before the line.


I disagree.  I've bolded the pertinent sentence:

Here is the actual Florida statute:
"316.0083 Mark Wandall Traffic Safety Act: A notice of violation and a traffic citation may not be issued for failure to stop at a red light if the driver is making a right-hand turn in a careful and prudent manner at an intersection where right-hand turns are permissible. A notice of violation and a traffic citation may not be issued under this section if the driver of the vehicle came to a complete stop after crossing the stop line and before turning right if permissible at a red light, but failed to stop before crossing over the stop line or other point at which a stop is required."

It's a really poorly-written law.
 
2014-06-19 02:59:29 PM
Was the [obvious] tag being held up at a traffic-stop?
 
2014-06-19 02:59:53 PM
Our judicial system is full of Judge Joe Browns.

www.blahpers.com
 
2014-06-19 03:02:06 PM
Anyone notice how their flag is all torn to shiat? It's a fitting description of what goes on inside.
 
2014-06-19 03:08:46 PM
Remember folks, you can put red light cameras on your local ballot and vote them out of town. There is a 100% rate of getting red light cameras removed every time citizens get these put on a local ballot. The city won't put them on the ballot themselves, they want the revenue
 
2014-06-19 03:09:55 PM
Go ahead. Try and ticket me.

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-06-19 03:11:07 PM

JackieRabbit: I have news for this investigative reporter: all Miami-Dade courts are kangaroo courts.  Don't pay the fine for 60 days, so you can fight it in county traffic court?  (where you will still lose)  That might work if you don't first get pulled over and then arrested for failure to appear.


Some of these words you use don't mean what you think they do.

Failure to appear warrants are issued in florida over one unpaid ticket, prior to the scheduled court date?
 
2014-06-19 03:12:05 PM

vpb: If you read further down in the article, it says that rolling through the stop sign is actually legal in florida for a right turn on red.

No, it isn't. The law explicitly states that a full stop is required, even though it no longer has to be before the line.


Which reflects the reality of how people drive.  Coming to a stop at the point just before you enter the traffic stream (so you can see if it's clear) is not hazardous.  I'm surprised they actually fixed the law, though.
 
2014-06-19 03:12:39 PM
Have you considered not breaking the law?
 
2014-06-19 03:13:06 PM
This is why bikes should be registered with a licence plate just like motorcycles.

Since they using the public roads and screwing up traffic patterns.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-06-19 03:14:55 PM

vpb: labman:

If you read further down in the article, it says that rolling through the stop sign is actually legal in florida for a right turn on red.

No, it isn't.  The law explicitly states that a full stop is required, even though it no longer has to be before the line.


Reading is hard:

"It's very clear under the law that you do not have to make a complete stop at a red light camera so long as you are careful and prudent." Leifman said.

Judge Steven Leifman, a real judge with the Eleventh Judicial Circuit of Florida called it "troubling." Judge Leifman oversees the traffic division at the Miami-Dade courthouse.
 
2014-06-19 03:15:35 PM

ned4spd8874: Had to chime in on two things.

First, a real kanagroo court is in Livonia Michigan.  I got a ticket for not stoping leaving work, but I did.  My view was actually obstructed by a burm and I took extra caution exiting after I made my complete stop.  Only when I got to the road, a cop was coming down the street and assumed I just sailed out.  I took it to court with photos of the obstruction and the "judge" said that it didn't matter.  THIS is why I have avoided Livoinia Michigan at all costs anymore.

Secondly, I just moved to the Chicago area and we have a ton of these red light cameras.  I've already been dinged three times.  True the camera doesn't lie and I did not make complete stops before turning.  Now I just don't turn unless the light is green.  It pisses people off, but I'm sick of the BS.


Camera pictures don't lie, but cameras have been caught issuing tickets to people who didn't break any rules.

Also, your name and complaining about traffic enforcement amuses me.
 
GBB
2014-06-19 03:16:16 PM

Fark like a Barsoomian: Sin_City_Superhero: Sybarite: [blog.motorists.org image 525x200]

You never go ass-to-mouth.

You never go attorney-to-mouth.


you never go apples-to-melons.
 
2014-06-19 03:19:15 PM
Just stop going through red lights, you farkholes.
 
2014-06-19 03:20:36 PM
CSB/

A buddy of mine gets transferred to Salt Lake City from Ohio and his company pays for the move.  His car is shipped out as well.  As it sits on the back of a car carrier, it racks up $160 in tolls and fines from Illinois toll booths (it had a Fast Pass tag that he used on the Ohio Turnpike).  The bill arrives complete with photos of the car obviously located on the back of a truck.  Illinois refuses to drop the fines, despite the photographs supporting his story, so he calls the car shipping company to explore options.  They promptly pay the bill because Illinois has made it so ridiculously complicated to drop the charges that it's infinitely easier just to pay the $160.

You're welcome.
 
2014-06-19 03:21:22 PM

Smackledorfer: JackieRabbit: I have news for this investigative reporter: all Miami-Dade courts are kangaroo courts.  Don't pay the fine for 60 days, so you can fight it in county traffic court?  (where you will still lose)  That might work if you don't first get pulled over and then arrested for failure to appear.

Some of these words you use don't mean what you think they do.

Failure to appear warrants are issued in florida over one unpaid ticket, prior to the scheduled court date?


No. But Failure To Pay Fine drivers license suspensions can be issued if the "pay by" date happens before your regular (non camera) court date.

Which will get you arrested for DWLSR if you should get pulled over.

Whaddaya want, logic? This is Florida.

/FL resident
 
2014-06-19 03:21:27 PM

Smackledorfer: JackieRabbit: I have news for this investigative reporter: all Miami-Dade courts are kangaroo courts.  Don't pay the fine for 60 days, so you can fight it in county traffic court?  (where you will still lose)  That might work if you don't first get pulled over and then arrested for failure to appear.

Some of these words you use don't mean what you think they do.

Failure to appear warrants are issued in florida over one unpaid ticket, prior to the scheduled court date?


yeah, this!
 
2014-06-19 03:26:48 PM
Well, the Mythbusters showed that if you go 200+ MPH you can avoid having your picture snapped even though you trigger the camera. Good luck.
 
2014-06-19 03:29:04 PM

Richard Saunders: DNRTFA - Don't need to.

Fark Haines City, Florida.

It was raining.  I was not speeding. Vehicle behind me was tailgating; would have been unable to stop without collision occurring.

/I fought the law
//the law won


Yeah, I'm making you pay a fine in that case, too. If you didn't see the yellow light, know that you were too far to make the light, and stop, you get a ticket. Tailgating excuse is weak bullshiat.
 
2014-06-19 03:30:12 PM

rbuzby: Just stop going through red lights, you farkholes.


RTFA. The story is about people who get tickets for legally turning right on red.
 
2014-06-19 03:30:21 PM
Dave Barry wrote about getting a ticket in Miami 20 years ago. He was found guilty by a video tape of a judge.
 
2014-06-19 03:32:10 PM
Cameras don't lie. Run red light = guilty.
 
2014-06-19 03:34:32 PM
I hate the damn cameras as much as anyone (they just removed them from St Petersburg)

Bottom line though...if you want to "beat" the system - just stop at red lights.
And...stop before you make a right hand turn on red. Problem solved.

I've only had a couple times where I had to brake pretty hard because I was questioning my ability to make the yellow (and if someone hits me from behind while I'm doing that - I'm getting a new car)
 
2014-06-19 03:35:06 PM

flaminio: I got a red light camera ticket a few years back. I fought it, and all through the process the court kept trying to get me to change my plea. They tried at the arraignment, they tried when scheduling the trial, they tried pre-trial. Finally I got before the judge. My prosecutor was not an attorney, nor did he work for the court. He was a Redflex employee. I raised all sorts of objections as to why this is not legal, as well as challenges to my ticket -- all overruled, and I was found guilty.

The system is totally fixed, but at least I had the pleasure of costing the court at least as much in court time as my fine. They didn't make any money off me. If everyone did this, camera tickets would disappear. The enablers are the ones that just write a check and send it in. If you get a camera ticket, blame them.


Not everybody is unemployable.
 
2014-06-19 03:38:24 PM
Don't farking run red lights and you assholes won't have to worry about it.
 
2014-06-19 03:38:32 PM

ned4spd8874: Had to chime in on two things.

First, a real kanagroo court is in Livonia Michigan.  I got a ticket for not stoping leaving work, but I did.  My view was actually obstructed by a burm and I took extra caution exiting after I made my complete stop.  Only when I got to the road, a cop was coming down the street and assumed I just sailed out.  I took it to court with photos of the obstruction and the "judge" said that it didn't matter.  THIS is why I have avoided Livoinia Michigan at all costs anymore.



This is among the many reasons why I now have a car camera/recorder.
 
2014-06-19 03:39:31 PM
Those bastards actually changed the Florida constitution so they could put up those cameras and they did it without the peoples vote, they just held a shady voting session and stole our states constitutional rights from us. Scumbag politicians, liars and thieves every one.
 
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