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(io9)   What do Luke, Leia, and Han know about the prequels anyway?   (observationdeck.io9.com) divider line 93
    More: Silly, jedis, Episode IV, expanded universe, Alderaan, Obi-Wan, ghosts  
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5270 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Jun 2014 at 10:20 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 08:05:00 PM  
Oh, Jesus.
 
2014-06-18 08:35:05 PM  
There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89
 
2014-06-18 10:22:24 PM  
The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.
 
2014-06-18 10:28:49 PM  

Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.


It looks more like whoever wrote the article didn't actually see the movies.
 
2014-06-18 10:30:54 PM  
That they were lucky enough not to be cast in them?
 
2014-06-18 10:31:52 PM  
Luke had no inkling he was one of the most powerful Jedi in the universe until someone said "Hai ur majik lol". Leia never knew at all (despite somehow "always" knowing...especially when she made out with Luke, huh?).  Meanwhile Dawww Vader was the only human who could podrace because he could see into the future and could build sentient robots when he was 5.

Basically, what Twigz said.
 
2014-06-18 10:32:10 PM  

kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89


This is oh so true. My girlfriend is feom China but has been living in Canada for ten years and still had no idea that Mao Zedong was considered to be in the same category as Hitler and Stalin. Propaganda works.
 
2014-06-18 10:35:18 PM  

Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.


Yup, basically.
 
2014-06-18 10:38:37 PM  

Mugato: Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.

It looks more like whoever wrote the article didn't actually see the movies.


Mugs, just stop before you even get started.  You try to defend these movies, but you can't defend these movies.  It's like a whole other trilogy - they just don't fit, not in terms of aesthetics, not in terms of story, not in terms of characters.  They're best regarded as if they didn't even happen.
 
2014-06-18 10:45:04 PM  

karmachameleon: Mugato: Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.

It looks more like whoever wrote the article didn't actually see the movies.

Mugs, just stop before you even get started.  You try to defend these movies, but you can't defend these movies.  It's like a whole other trilogy - they just don't fit, not in terms of aesthetics, not in terms of story, not in terms of characters.  They're best regarded as if they didn't even happen.


Oh, I'm not going to bother. If someone wants to write a blog about a simple series of movies and gets the basic plot points of it wrong, no sweat off my sack.
 
2014-06-18 10:45:44 PM  
The new Star Wars film will open with a prologue revealing that everything we saw in the prequel trilogy was an in-universe propaganda revisionist version of events, and that what really happened was far less stupid.
 
2014-06-18 10:46:15 PM  
That article was dumb, and we are all dumber for reading it.

"Obi Wan Kenobi isn't just some old general. As a Jedi Master he is on the Empire's Most Wanted List yet has been living pretty openly under a slight variation of his name. "

Quick questions: Who was on the FBI's most wanted list 20 years ago, and should the FBI harass everyone with that last name? He was on a wanted list that wasn't public. He lived in the middle of bf nowhere on a bf nowhere planet. It's likely the Lars moisture farm were his closest neighbors. Anyone knocked on his door... he would have seen them coming and Jedi mind-tricked them as needed.

Skywalker wasn't a well known name to the general populace, and when he gained any notoriety at all, he went by Vader. Even then... the others in the Death Star council chamber (New Hope) didn't react like Vader was that big a deal. He was just Tarkin's lap dog.

I sometimes wonder if the people who write these articles even saw the movies.
 
2014-06-18 10:48:55 PM  
The way I always saw it though is that history is written by the victors. The Empire had all records of the Jedi expunged and even though Obi-Wan and Annakin were very well known, they were not allowed to be mentioned, ever. People just forgot about them. I guess this was why Luke's uncle decided it was safe to have Luke use the name Skywalker instead of Lars.

One think I wonder if they will mention is the fact that Luke and Leia have more family out there. Padme's nieces are only a few years older than them. Plus it's not too inconceivable to think that their aunt and maternal grandparents are still alive.
 
2014-06-18 10:50:29 PM  
Both Luke and Han seem like they'd be shiatty history students.
 
2014-06-18 10:52:24 PM  

Russ1642: My girlfriend is feom China but has been living in Canada...


So you're suggesting that I probably wouldn't know her?
 
2014-06-18 10:52:29 PM  

miniflea: The new Star Wars film will open with a prologue revealing that everything we saw in the prequel trilogy was an in-universe propaganda revisionist version of events, and that what really happened was far less stupid.


The prequels are here to stay, through better or worse. An entire generation was introduced to Star Wars through those films. It'd be like Gene Roddenberry suddenly declaring that TOS was no longer canon when TNG first premiered.

I'm 25 going on 26, I was introduced to Star Wars long after the OT's theatrical run, but well before the PT.

Star Wars is a multi-generational franchise. It doesn't start and end with any one fan.
 
2014-06-18 10:55:50 PM  

Richard_The_Clown: One think I wonder if they will mention is the fact that Luke and Leia have more family out there. Padme's nieces are only a few years older than them. Plus it's not too inconceivable to think that their aunt and maternal grandparents are still alive.


Padme's family was not force-sensitive so they're fairly irrelevant.
 
2014-06-18 10:57:15 PM  
Simon Pegg covered all that stuff and more in a book he wrote a couple years ago.
 
2014-06-18 10:59:08 PM  
Given that Uncle Owen was deeply afraid that Luke would follow in his father's footsteps, and that he was a farmer on a backwater deep in Hutt space, it's very likely that Luke was mostly homeschooled and that galactic history was mostly glossed over.  Basically everything about Luke's circumstances leads me to believe that Luke would be more ignorant of history than the galactic average.

Same goes for Han, mostly because he's criminal scum, and criminal scum tends to not be particularly well-educated.  We don't really know anything about his origins from the films, but it seems more reasonable to suggest Han has always been low class and rough.  So again, more ignorant than average, but still better than Luke -- he's at least *heard* of Jedi's and the Force.

Leia would be the best educated of them all, with far more knowledge than the average citizen -- being raised within the Rebellion by the nannies of Bail Organa, she would have access to the best Imperial education as well as deep background on what  really happened.
 
2014-06-18 11:06:09 PM  
what happened? This is what happened. I was there, man. I saw it all go down. Just like on Grenada

img.fark.net
 
2014-06-18 11:26:03 PM  

Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.


While you're absolutely correct, it should also be said that this article is one of the most embarrassing and worst written rambling I've seen on a "legit" site ever. Just horrible.
 
2014-06-18 11:32:31 PM  

skepticultist: Given that Uncle Owen was deeply afraid that Luke would follow in his father's footsteps, and that he was a farmer on a backwater deep in Hutt space, it's very likely that Luke was mostly homeschooled and that galactic history was mostly glossed over.  Basically everything about Luke's circumstances leads me to believe that Luke would be more ignorant of history than the galactic average.

Same goes for Han, mostly because he's criminal scum, and criminal scum tends to not be particularly well-educated.  We don't really know anything about his origins from the films, but it seems more reasonable to suggest Han has always been low class and rough.  So again, more ignorant than average, but still better than Luke -- he's at least *heard* of Jedi's and the Force.

Leia would be the best educated of them all, with far more knowledge than the average citizen -- being raised within the Rebellion by the nannies of Bail Organa, she would have access to the best Imperial education as well as deep background on what  really happened.


This.

She would probably be the only one in the group other than Obi-Wan to really know what happened with the exception that she was left in the dark about her true parentage.  Finding out that your mother was the lynch-pin of the Emperor coming to power and your father is a mass murderer and the Emperor's right hand assassin just isn't going to do her any good.

I would assume that Owen kept Luke in the dark about as much as he could.  Especially since he knew who Luke's father is, that Luke likely is force sensitive and that there are no Jedi in a position to effectively train him and it's far more likely he ends up a Sith.  In his place I would do everything I could to keep him away from all that.

Han strikes me as growing up a hoodlum that didn't put any effort into whatever education he did get.  Plus he doesn't seem to believe in The Force.  So anything he does know about the Jedi and Sith is probably something akin to mythology in his mind.  At least until later in the trilogy.  He sees Obi-Wan as a frail crazy old man.

The empire had 20 years to purge the official record of the facts about the republic and the Jedi.  That's a whole generation that was terrorized into silence and another that was born into the terror and propaganda.  If they knew anything true about the Republic and the Jedi it was all whispers and rumors.  Any formal education would have been heavily propagandized to make the Jedi villains, if they weren't erased altogether, and the Empire the heroes of peace.  Anyone that tried to spread the truth would surely be hunted down and killed considering how the Empire/Sith operated.
 
2014-06-18 11:42:00 PM  
bplusmovieblog.files.wordpress.com

"I don't recall ever owning a droid."
 
2014-06-18 11:54:21 PM  

kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89


If the articles in the Politics tab are any indication, most everyone has forgotten the damage that GW Bush did to the US economy and credibility, and it is somehow legitimate to suggest that Obama owns their economic mess. For that matter, John Major in England is apparently erased from memory.  you should see how Brian Mulroney, Reagan and Thatcher's favourite Canadian, is lauded as some kind of centrist peacekeeper, when he was the most measurably hated person in Canadian history when he resigned - and that is a rad thing to measure, but he was glaringly obvious by all sorts of metrics.

*poof* all gone. A few wars and some media control and 20 years ago is worse remembered than 200 years ago.
 
2014-06-19 12:01:08 AM  

Callous: This.

She would probably be the only one in the group other than Obi-Wan to really know what happened with the exception that she was left in the dark about her true parentage.  Finding out that your mother was the lynch-pin of the Emperor coming to power and your father is a mass murderer and the Emperor's right hand assassin just isn't going to do her any good.

I would assume that Owen kept Luke in the dark about as much as he could.  Especially since he knew who Luke's father is, that Luke likely is force sensitive and that there are no Jedi in a position to effectively train him and it's far more likely he ends up a Sith.  In his place I would do everything I could to keep him away from all that.

Han strikes me as growing up a hoodlum that didn't put any effort into whatever education he did get.  Plus he doesn't seem to believe in The Force.  So anything he does know about the Jedi and Sith is probably something akin to mythology in his mind.  At least until later in the trilogy.  He sees Obi-Wan as a frail crazy old man.

The empire had 20 years to purge the official record of the facts about the republic and the Jedi.  That's a whole generation that was terrorized into silence and another that was born into the terror and propaganda.  If they knew anything true about the Republic and the Jedi it was all whispers and rumors.  Any formal education would have been heavily propagandized to make the Jedi villains, if they weren't erased altogether, and the Empire the heroes of peace.  Anyone that tried to spread the truth would surely be hunted down and killed considering how the Empire/Sith operated.



Which is a likely backdrop to the rumored story being the New Republic never got formed.  After Palpatine's death, 30 years of a massive power vacuum evolved to where Admirals, Moffs, Generals all operated their own ways to consolidate their own power and rank into mini armies like warlords.  The Jedi are still seen as enemies of the state knowing that one of them took down the Emperor so everything and anyone who was hunting Jedi during his reign would continue to do so after his death.

30 years is a long time to be on the run.  Luke returned to the only planet no one would care to look.
 
2014-06-19 12:04:25 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89

If the articles in the Politics tab are any indication, most everyone has forgotten the damage that GW Bush did to the US economy and credibility, and it is somehow legitimate to suggest that Obama owns their economic mess. For that matter, John Major in England is apparently erased from memory.  you should see how Brian Mulroney, Reagan and Thatcher's favourite Canadian, is lauded as some kind of centrist peacekeeper, when he was the most measurably hated person in Canadian history when he resigned - and that is a rad thing to measure, but he was glaringly obvious by all sorts of metrics.

*poof* all gone. A few wars and some media control and 20 years ago is worse remembered than 200 years ago.


Democrats should learn to stand up to the Republican's bullshiat machine and bust the myths they've been thriving on over the last 30 years, like how Ronald Reagan supposedly save us from the "failed" presidency of Jimmy Carter.
 
2014-06-19 12:10:41 AM  
The problem with "who remembers for 20 years" is that we're not talking about who a particular military officer is (Curtis Lemay), but forgetting an integral part of government and society   We're talking about people being fuzzy about the basic facts of Marine Corps after 20 years.  If the Emperor was able to pretty much scrub the Jedi from a population that were overwhelming still alive when the JEdi were considered pillars of the Republic, there would be no Rebellion - there would be no room for the Rebellion to form if the Emperor was in that sort of control.

And Han would have been 5 or 6 when the Clone Wars began, and 10 or so when the Empire took over.  The idea that he had no idea what a Jedi was is absurd.  That he didn't understand the intricacies is fine, but by all rights, the jedi should be the Justice League of his childhood.
 
2014-06-19 12:15:20 AM  
The Jedi order didn't  have a "rich history" at the time of the prequels, they were basically an obsolete religious cult that had withdrawn from any real contact with the mass of common people in favor of playing at petty politics instead even in Episode 1.

In Episode 4 Han had very clearly  heard of the Jedi, and was even familiar with the basics of the religion, to the extent that an American might be aware of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  He just wasn't  impressed, and thought their claims of superpowers were a line of bullshiat.  It didn't  require a propaganda campaign to play down the Jedi as just one of the hundreds of greedy little political factions that played the game of thrones in the galactic senate and lost, insignificant as far as most people are concerned... even before Palpatine decided on a career in public service, that's  what they actually were.

Han didn't care about their religion or know about the intricate specifics of their chosen one prophecy for the same reason the average citizen of the US couldn't tell you the specifics of the Branch Davidian religion and their prophecies regarding dominionism... they were a relatively irrelevant faction that tried to change that irrelevance by rebelling against the lawful government, they got predictably shut down, and now they matter  even less.

// I mean, c'mon, even Qui'gon and Obi'wan in the prequels make the ep. 4 stormtroopers look like brutally efficient go-getters with laser focus on their objectives.  The literal elite of the cult couldn't even get their shiat together for thirty seconds to add "recover the answering-machine messages" to their list of spy 'to do' stuff, and their literal first resort for  everything is murder.  Trade negotation?  Murder.  Counselor might possibly be exercising his freedom of religion and not sucking Jedi cock?  Murder.  Pod-race going poorly?  Murder.  Sand people kidnap yer mum?  Murder.  Not really a huge surprise they weren't a gigantic influence on most of the galaxy with an elegant approach to problem-solving like that.
 
2014-06-19 12:24:18 AM  
Obi Wan was around 70 in Star Wars.  Luke and Leia were 18 or 19.  Darth Vader was Obi Wan's friend and Luke and Leia's father.  This is the outline the prequels needed to follow.

So Episode I should have been about something called the Clone Wars.  Show Obi Wan and Anakin in their 20s, set 45 years before Star Wars, being great friends and great pilots and just foreshadow Anakin's turn to the Dark Side by showing him susceptible to fear and hatred.

Episode II could have been set 10 years later, with the rise of the Emperor and showing Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.

Episode III shows Anakin, now Darth Vader, hunting down and killing the Jedis, the Bad Boy who seduces and impregnates Luke and Leia's mother, then gets cut up a treat by Obi Wan and becomes more machine than man.

Tell me that isn't a better outline of a trilogy than the Prequels gave us.
 
2014-06-19 12:25:59 AM  

Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.


We're done here. Lucas farked up Star Wars and now J.J. is tasked with the ultimate challenge to rescue it.
 
2014-06-19 12:30:18 AM  

Twigz221: The answer is George Lucas is a hack and a terrible writer who doesn't even understand his own creation.


Sure he did. After he saw that Kenner could sell empty boxes with an IOU in it, he understood that his creation was a hell of a way to sell toys. Lots and LOTS of toys.
 
2014-06-19 12:31:52 AM  
They had a huge horking complex smack dab in the middle of the capital.  I don't see an FBI agent on a daily basis (or ever, to be precise), but to act like that means I have no idea who they are and how much they are involved in the running of the government is absurd.  The Jedi are an obsolete religious clt like the Vatican is an obscure coterie of drag queens.

And they were a major part of the Clone army command structure.  I don't see the Pineywoods Primitive Baptist Church of Macon's quilting circle being made officers of the line of the Third Fleet
 
2014-06-19 12:32:55 AM  

kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89


That was a single event in a communist country. The Republic in Star Wars was thousands of years in a free galaxy. You're comparing apples to enormous boulders.
 
2014-06-19 12:41:39 AM  
That's the problem with those Empire kids. They don't care about their past.
 
2014-06-19 12:47:06 AM  
There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square

more like 2,000,000,000
 
2014-06-19 12:48:18 AM  

Brokenseas: Obi Wan was around 70 in Star Wars.  Luke and Leia were 18 or 19.  Darth Vader was Obi Wan's friend and Luke and Leia's father.  This is the outline the prequels needed to follow.

So Episode I should have been about something called the Clone Wars.  Show Obi Wan and Anakin in their 20s, set 45 years before Star Wars, being great friends and great pilots and just foreshadow Anakin's turn to the Dark Side by showing him susceptible to fear and hatred.

Episode II could have been set 10 years later, with the rise of the Emperor and showing Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.

Episode III shows Anakin, now Darth Vader, hunting down and killing the Jedis, the Bad Boy who seduces and impregnates Luke and Leia's mother, then gets cut up a treat by Obi Wan and becomes more machine than man.

Tell me that isn't a better outline of a trilogy than the Prequels gave us.


Sorry, Vader/Anakin died at about the age of 45 according to current canon - he shouldn't have been old. (TPM at year -32 and and ROTJ at 4). That would make Obi Wan about 55 when he died. Lucas screwed everything up.
 
2014-06-19 12:49:46 AM  
sajha.com

Ah, here we go again: a bunch of hipster/Comic Book Guy wannabes try to prove their internet nerd cred by slagging on the SW prequels.

/when we all know they saw them multiple times
//each movie didn't gross $300-400 million domestic with people only seeing them once
 
2014-06-19 01:05:09 AM  

peterthx: hen we all know they saw them multiple times
//each movie didn't gross $300-400 million domestic with people only seeing them once


So you're saying they were good movies then?
 
2014-06-19 01:05:54 AM  

peterthx: Ah, here we go again: a bunch of hipster/Comic Book Guy wannabes try to prove their internet nerd cred by slagging on the SW prequels.


Do you really think anyone does that? Or do you just imagine people do that?

(Hint: It's the latter)
 
2014-06-19 01:07:24 AM  
Hey look at me! I'm trying to prove my Internet Nerd Cred by slagging on the Star Wars prequels!

Some guy on the internet says it will make me cool!

Does it make me cool? Huh guys? Does it make me cool?

Cause this guy, peterthx, he thinks it would make me cool!
 
2014-06-19 01:28:23 AM  
persephonemagazine.com

Confabulat: So you're saying they were good movies then?


Confabulat: Do you really think anyone does that? Or do you just imagine people do that?

(Hint: It's the latter)


Confabulat: Hey look at me! I'm trying to prove my Internet Nerd Cred by slagging on the Star Wars prequels!

Some guy on the internet says it will make me cool!

Does it make me cool? Huh guys? Does it make me cool?

Cause this guy, peterthx, he thinks it would make me cool!


/methinks you doth protest too much
 
2014-06-19 01:32:12 AM  

Russ1642: kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89

This is oh so true. My girlfriend is feom China but has been living in Canada for ten years and still had no idea that Mao Zedong was considered to be in the same category as Hitler and Stalin. Propaganda works.


Yep, it sure does. But after having spoken to her about life in China under Mao, were you able to shake of the propaganda and look at his legacy without bias?
 
2014-06-19 01:57:20 AM  
I have a feeling that the upcoming show will have somewhat convoluted answers for a lot of the ambiguity. 

fusillade762: [bplusmovieblog.files.wordpress.com image 590x369]

"I don't recall ever owning a droid."


From a certain point of view...
 
2014-06-19 02:08:18 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: kimwim: There are 200,000,000 Chinese who don't know about the Tiananmen Square massacre.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19 89

If the articles in the Politics tab are any indication, most everyone has forgotten the damage that GW Bush did to the US economy and credibility, and it is somehow legitimate to suggest that Obama owns their economic mess. For that matter, John Major in England is apparently erased from memory.  you should see how Brian Mulroney, Reagan and Thatcher's favourite Canadian, is lauded as some kind of centrist peacekeeper, when he was the most measurably hated person in Canadian history when he resigned - and that is a rad thing to measure, but he was glaringly obvious by all sorts of metrics.

*poof* all gone. A few wars and some media control and 20 years ago is worse remembered than 200 years ago.


In the greater scheme of things those are mere details. Which politician is responsible for what is easy to forget, a galaxy spanning war against an economic powerhouse, who went around and embargoed planets, that was fought with clones commanded by space wizards isn't something that can be scrubbed within one generation. Considering the scale we're talking about there should be records and local knowledge just about anywhere people look.

Details could easily be lost to propaganda and lack of interest, yet the general outline of.yhe conflict should be anything but obscure.
 
2014-06-19 02:30:43 AM  

peterthx: Ah, here we go again: a bunch of hipster/Comic Book Guy wannabes try to prove their internet nerd cred by slagging on the SW prequels.


Saw them once each. Didn't buy them. Won't watch them again. They were sh*t and you know it.

The prequels kind of ruined it for me by taking the Arthurian legend of this farm boy and making all 6 movies about his dad... who went from galactic badass to an immense douche after the prequels came out.
 
2014-06-19 02:39:40 AM  

Surool: Saw them once each. Didn't buy them. Won't watch them again. They were sh*t and you know it.


Same. And I didn't even bother seeing the third one in the theater because I felt burned so bad from the first two.
 
2014-06-19 03:04:04 AM  
I'm sure North Koreans are really well-versed in the true story of the Korean War, too.
 
2014-06-19 03:30:59 AM  

fusillade762: Surool: Saw them once each. Didn't buy them. Won't watch them again. They were sh*t and you know it.

Same. And I didn't even bother seeing the third one in the theater because I felt burned so bad from the first two.


I admit, the third movie was (for the most part) better than the other 2... even with that ending. The story worked better I should say.

I don't slag on these movies because it is trendy. I slag on them because although the visuals are far superior, the stories in the prequels crapped all over what we saw in the original films.

The mystical force suddenly has a sciency explanation, and Anakin was a virgin birth? WTF?
 
2014-06-19 03:47:56 AM  
This was a waste of a click.  I had to read it twice to realize the author never even interviewed a single person for puny article.

Han doesn't know of the prequals, since his biggest concern in life was becoming an officer in the Navy before turning to smuggling.  and most of his smuggling dealt with Jabba.  Didn't even think Jedi were real and a laser sword was just a fancy gadget

Liea only knew of Obi-wan from her father (If you listened to the Radio drama you would know)

Luke only knew of what his uncle told him

Control of information is one of the greatest tools of a totalitarian government

/yes I am a star wars nerd, and live my own house with my wife
 
2014-06-19 04:30:59 AM  
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that there on inconsistenties in a movie.

Lighten up Francis.
 
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