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(Mother Jones)   Ok, folks. It's time to acknowledge the truth: Obamacare is working   (motherjones.com) divider line 219
    More: Spiffy, obamacare, Current Population Survey, income distribution, more equal  
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3526 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jun 2014 at 9:25 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 05:14:13 PM
no shiat. why do you think the media is all benghazi all the time? they can't actually have a positive story about obama. that would mean that they're liberal. oh noes!
 
2014-06-18 05:17:58 PM
The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name. No...if a GOP member says anything positive about it, I guarantee it's referred to as the "Affordable Care Act", not "Obamacare". Can't have that darkie gettin' credit for stuff...
 
2014-06-18 05:20:31 PM
At what cost?

I'm not willing to endure a complete socialist takeover of 1/6 of our economy just to get health insurance for a bunch of illegal aliens.
 
2014-06-18 05:26:11 PM
Well, subby, that's been the fear all along, hasn't it? The Republicans haven't been biatching because they're afraid it's going to kill us all, but rather that they were afraid people would like it.

It still isn't single-payer universal full on socialist-commie health care I want, but it is most certainly a step up from what we had.
 
2014-06-18 05:44:29 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name.


the awesome thing is, THEY are the ones who put "obama" in the name.
 
2014-06-18 05:45:53 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I'm not willing to endure a complete socialist takeover of 1/6 of our economy just to get health insurance for a bunch of illegal aliens.


i know you're kidding, but there are people who believe that obamacare is a "government takeover of healthcare" (politico's lie of the year for 2009, i think).

i always want to ask people who think that, "if it's socialized medicine, who's employing the doctors?"
 
2014-06-18 05:47:19 PM
The real scandal is how Obama passed Obamacare and timed it to fail at the outset and only start to visibly succeed EXACTLY when he was caught literally trading Dr. Octopus, Thanos, Darkseid, Galactus and Mr. Sinister for a reanimated Benedict Arnold to distract from his treason.
 
2014-06-18 06:17:39 PM
The ACA has ensured that we'll never get anything better. Thanks, GOP.
 
2014-06-18 07:28:54 PM
It's still being rolled out, with the really nasty stuff not coming until later
 
2014-06-18 07:44:32 PM

BravadoGT: It's still being rolled out, with the really nasty stuff not coming until later


And Obama's just waiting to take your guns.
 
2014-06-18 07:59:29 PM

kronicfeld: BravadoGT: It's still being rolled out, with the really nasty stuff not coming until later

And Obama's just waiting to take your guns.


If gun manufacturers aren't sending Obama thank you cards at Christmas, they're fools.
 
2014-06-18 08:05:22 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name. No...if a GOP member says anything positive about it, I guarantee it's referred to as the "Affordable Care Act", not "Obamacare". Can't have that darkie gettin' credit for stuff...


That's true. When the story turns, it will be that Obamacare was a disaster that was only averted by staunch Republican resistance to all the bad things, and the ACA that everyone knows and loves was a Republican idea in the first place.
That might sound awkward now, but it's what your children will believe in 20 years.
 
2014-06-18 08:15:33 PM
Benghazicare has already caused deaths!
 
2014-06-18 08:28:31 PM
I'll be damned.  A Republican idea actually worked.
 
2014-06-18 08:29:43 PM
Not that I disagree with the sentiment, but a Mother Jones article lauding Obamacare isn't really "it's time to admit it" as much as "see, we told you so." The Wall Street Journal needs to put out an article saying "it's time to admit it."
 
2014-06-18 08:48:26 PM

Mentat: I'll be damned.  A Republican idea actually worked.


See? They're not out of ideas.
 
2014-06-18 08:49:22 PM
 
2014-06-18 08:56:19 PM

BravadoGT: It's still being rolled out, with the really nasty stuff not coming until later


i.imgur.com

No. The worst casualty has already been suffered.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2014-06-18 09:02:39 PM
I sure haven't heard any mention of death panels lately.

I once stopped by my elderly father's house and found him in tears after watching a FOX NEWS segment which claimed Obamacare was going to kill the elderly with death panels.  He told me he would commit suicide before letting those bastards kill him.

FOX NEWS is run by a bunch of immoral sociopaths.
 
2014-06-18 09:27:38 PM
are the fema camps part of obamacare or are they part of common core

i get confused so easily
 
2014-06-18 09:31:29 PM

kronicfeld: The real scandal is how Obama passed Obamacare and timed it to fail at the outset and only start to visibly succeed EXACTLY when he was caught literally trading Dr. Octopus, Thanos, Darkseid, Galactus and Mr. Sinister for a reanimated Benedict Arnold to distract from his treason.


WHOW WHOW WHOW Buddy.

Dr Octopus and Mr. Sinister are totally not on the same scale as Thanos, Darkseid and Galactus. Come on. Dr. Doom and Mephistos perhaps.
 
2014-06-18 09:36:54 PM

FlashHarry: Sin_City_Superhero: The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name.

the awesome thing is, THEY are the ones who put "obama" in the name.


And it's their plan! But hey since a black President got it through congress the Republicans have to hate it.
 
2014-06-18 09:45:42 PM

Lackofname: Dr Octopus and Mr. Sinister are totally not on the same scale as Thanos, Darkseid and Galactus. Come on. Dr. Doom and Mephistos perhaps.


The guy that makes five-assed monkeys? He's hardly a supervillain!
 
2014-06-18 09:46:03 PM
In my professional opinion, some parts are working, other parts aren't.

The exchanges seem to be going well, which is about 1/3 of the newly insured.  Insurance reform seems to be going well too, and although they grumble none of the insurers really mind because it effects them all equally.  The cost of healthcare for most members seems to be holding steady or going down.

The expansion of Medicaid - which is about 2/3 of the expansion - is going very poorly due to a) predictable political dynamics that should have been taken into account while forming the legislation b) lack of sufficient funding in the poor states that require the expansion the most to pay for their piece of said expansion and c) it's Medicaid.

And total US spending on healthcare is increasing.  We've cost shifted from individuals to the government without solving the structural problems that underlay those costs.

Long story short, we've helped some people, but also further complicated an already broken and bloated healthcare system, pushing it closer to systemic failure.  But hey, maybe that's the only way to fix it... let it break down completely.
 
2014-06-18 09:49:09 PM

SomeAmerican: In my professional opinion, some parts are working, other parts aren't.


People have to wait for months before finding a health care provider, paying the whole time or else they're fined. It's not really working very well.
 
2014-06-18 09:50:26 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I'm not willing to endure a complete socialist takeover of 1/6 of our economy just to get health insurance for a bunch of illegal aliens.


So you hate socialism so much that you're willing to sacrifice other peoples' lives to fight it?  How brave of you.....
 
2014-06-18 09:50:45 PM
I think it will be called "Obamascare" in the future. Republicans will point out how it wasn't perfect, but could have been if it followed the Heritage Foundation proposal or Mitt's winning strategy in Massachussets for healthcare.
 
2014-06-18 09:55:42 PM
Forbes has a pretty detailed article showing Obamacare to be an abject failure.
 
2014-06-18 09:56:18 PM

SomeAmerican: The expansion of Medicaid - which is about 2/3 of the expansion - is going very poorly due to a) predictable political dynamics that should have been taken into account while forming the legislation b) lack of sufficient funding in the poor states that require the expansion the most to pay for their piece of said expansion and c) it's Medicaid.


If the GOP could be bothered to look down the road beyond the end of their own dicks, they'd see that It's only a matter of time before red-staters realize that electing conservative nutbars is literally killing them in this regard.

The ACA may be a short-term political liability, but in the long run it's going to push this country far to the left.  And conservatives will have no one but themselves to blame.
 
2014-06-18 09:57:41 PM
Wait.

Wait.

Does this mean the Death Panels are going full speed yet?  When do we take Trigg Palin to one?
 
2014-06-18 10:00:24 PM
but but socialism!
 
2014-06-18 10:01:09 PM

Mugato: SomeAmerican: In my professional opinion, some parts are working, other parts aren't.

People have to wait for months before finding a health care provider, paying the whole time or else they're fined. It's not really working very well.


But many of those individuals either couldn't get or couldn't afford insurance before, so for them its a step forward.  So I'd argue that the law serves the public good.

However, equally deserving individuals in poor states don't get the same benefit, so the law clearly isn't egalitarian.

And the impact on the healthcare system as a whole is negative.  Expanding Medicaid was a dumb idea.  Layering in an additional way to buy healthcare on top of the existing ones was a dumb idea.  Leaving the broken healthcare market intact was a dumb idea.

This is not the structural reform we were looking for.  It's a band aid on a gaping wound.  I think we all know this... but one party says "see it's all fixed!" while the other pretends the wound doesn't exist.
 
2014-06-18 10:01:37 PM

udhq: Eddie Adams from Torrance: I'm not willing to endure a complete socialist takeover of 1/6 of our economy just to get health insurance for a bunch of illegal aliens.

So you hate socialism so much that you're willing to sacrifice other peoples' lives to fight it?  How brave of you.....


Hook meet mouth.
 
2014-06-18 10:05:42 PM
Ok, folks. It's time to acknowledge the truth: Obamacare is working to destroy America. Which is a strange outcome because US destruction is Obamacare's intended goal but Obama is completely inept.
 
2014-06-18 10:10:41 PM
Yeah, it sucked for a couple of business owners I know who got all pissed, but I now know more people who have coverage who never had it before.
 
2014-06-18 10:14:15 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name. No...if a GOP member says anything positive about it, I guarantee it's referred to as the "Affordable Care Act", not "Obamacare". Can't have that darkie gettin' credit for stuff...


Which is ironic since THEY are the one's that decided it needed to be called Obamacare.
 
2014-06-18 10:15:08 PM

Ambivalence: Sin_City_Superhero: The GOP will NEVER admit that. At least they won't as long as it has "Obama" in the name. No...if a GOP member says anything positive about it, I guarantee it's referred to as the "Affordable Care Act", not "Obamacare". Can't have that darkie gettin' credit for stuff...

Which is ironic since THEY are the one's that decided it needed to be called Obamacare.


More Republican Deep Thoughts.
 
2014-06-18 10:16:25 PM
Some people treat it as if it is the last healthcare legislation we will see in our lifetimes.  This is an evolving reform which will take some time before we settle into single payer.   The parts which make people the most angry will end up being insurance companies which will help drive it further into single payer territory.
 
2014-06-18 10:18:13 PM

SomeAmerican: In my professional opinion, some parts are working, other parts aren't.

The exchanges seem to be going well, which is about 1/3 of the newly insured.  Insurance reform seems to be going well too, and although they grumble none of the insurers really mind because it effects them all equally.  The cost of healthcare for most members seems to be holding steady or going down.

The expansion of Medicaid - which is about 2/3 of the expansion - is going very poorly due to a) predictable political dynamics that should have been taken into account while forming the legislation b) lack of sufficient funding in the poor states that require the expansion the most to pay for their piece of said expansion and c) it's Medicaid.

And total US spending on healthcare is increasing.  We've cost shifted from individuals to the government without solving the structural problems that underlay those costs.

Long story short, we've helped some people, but also further complicated an already broken and bloated healthcare system, pushing it closer to systemic failure.  But hey, maybe that's the only way to fix it... let it break down completely.


That's the only way it can work in America - we have to give the "private sector" their shot at it, let them f**k it up out of greed, and finally pull the plug and institute a real national health service. It will take another two generations.
 
2014-06-18 10:18:13 PM

udhq: SomeAmerican: The expansion of Medicaid - which is about 2/3 of the expansion - is going very poorly due to a) predictable political dynamics that should have been taken into account while forming the legislation b) lack of sufficient funding in the poor states that require the expansion the most to pay for their piece of said expansion and c) it's Medicaid.

If the GOP could be bothered to look down the road beyond the end of their own dicks, they'd see that It's only a matter of time before red-staters realize that electing conservative nutbars is literally killing them in this regard.

The ACA may be a short-term political liability, but in the long run it's going to push this country far to the left.  And conservatives will have no one but themselves to blame.


It's not just politics, it's dollars.

Rich states like Maryland had Medicaid programs that covered people at poverty plus additional public assistance programs in place that covered people near poverty level.  The ACA worked out great for them because the Feds offered to pick up the tab for 90% of what the State already had.  It was free money.

Poor states like South Carolina have Medicaid programs that barely cover anyone at all, and no assistance programs for people near poverty level.  The ACA would have required a massive increase in the Medicaid program for South Carolina.  Although the Feds were offering a large amount of money that SC desperately needed, SC couldn't afford their share, and so couldn't accept.

As to why rich states had programs in place already, just think in terms of the number of Medicaid recipients that each taxpayer has to support.  In New Hampshire, each person at 400% or above poverty level has to cover about a 1/3 of a Medicaid recipient.  In Louisiana, each person at 400% or above poverty level has to cover about 2.5 Medicaid recipients.   So it is easy for NH to expand Medicaid.  It is far more difficult for Louisiana to do so.

Politics are in play, but budget issues due to weak tax bases are a real barrier too.
 
2014-06-18 10:23:04 PM

jso2897: That's the only way it can work in America - we have to give the "private sector" their shot at it, let them f**k it up out of greed, and finally pull the plug and institute a real national health service. It will take another two generations.


Sorry for the repeat post, but I'm going to dust this one off from another thread, as it is relevant:

Usually articles like this are followed by comments like "if only we had public healthcare!".

Sorry to dash your hopes, but we are already do.  Two thirds of US healthcare is paid for by the government, and that's expected to expand under the ACA.  We have not one, not two, but six independent public healthcare systems: Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the VA, CHIP, and FEP.  Don't expect a shift of 66% public to say 75% public, or a move from 6 public plans to say 7 to make any real difference.

What we have in the US is a façade of private insurers on top of a deeply fragmented, poorly run public healthcare system.  Private insurers are the healthcare equivalent of defense contractors.... bloated semi-private / semi-public entities that give politicians plausible deniability for how messed up the system is while they rack up personal fortunes through cozy industry relationships.

What's needed now isn't another public plan, but a consolidation of the ones that we already have.  We need reform of how providers are organized and paid, preferably with risk and quality adjusted per member payments.  And we need to cap those payments at a growth rate lower than inflation (using the Singapore model) for several decades until pricing comes in line with the rest of the world.

Yes the US healthcare system is a corrupt mess... but our government is an eager participant in the scam.
 
2014-06-18 10:27:03 PM
Uh huh. Sure it is.Mission Accomplished.
 
2014-06-18 10:30:00 PM
The political ad I saw today in Georgia was for "no more Obamacare" and "we have enough Obamacare".  If it's a dead issue in Georgia, then I'm going to call it a done deal.
 
2014-06-18 10:34:08 PM

SomeAmerican: jso2897: That's the only way it can work in America - we have to give the "private sector" their shot at it, let them f**k it up out of greed, and finally pull the plug and institute a real national health service. It will take another two generations.

Sorry for the repeat post, but I'm going to dust this one off from another thread, as it is relevant:

Usually articles like this are followed by comments like "if only we had public healthcare!".

Sorry to dash your hopes, but we are already do.  Two thirds of US healthcare is paid for by the government, and that's expected to expand under the ACA.  We have not one, not two, but six independent public healthcare systems: Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the VA, CHIP, and FEP.  Don't expect a shift of 66% public to say 75% public, or a move from 6 public plans to say 7 to make any real difference.

What we have in the US is a façade of private insurers on top of a deeply fragmented, poorly run public healthcare system.  Private insurers are the healthcare equivalent of defense contractors.... bloated semi-private / semi-public entities that give politicians plausible deniability for how messed up the system is while they rack up personal fortunes through cozy industry relationships.

What's needed now isn't another public plan, but a consolidation of the ones that we already have.  We need reform of how providers are organized and paid, preferably with risk and quality adjusted per member payments.  And we need to cap those payments at a growth rate lower than inflation (using the Singapore model) for several decades until pricing comes in line with the rest of the world.

Yes the US healthcare system is a corrupt mess... but our government is an eager participant in the scam.


I totally agree with everything you just said - are you under the impression that I would disagree in any way?
I was never under the impression that we have a "private" health system - only that politics demand that the private sector be allowed to try to make our messed up system work (while raking some nice change off the top). And yes - what we need is one, single, cohesive system. And yeah, a rate cap is a great idea - but as long as the insurers are running the system through their proxies in Congress, that's not possible.
 
2014-06-18 10:36:09 PM

robv83: Forbes has a pretty detailed article showing Obamacare to be an abject failure.


I just read that- interesting article. It is from march- most of the reasons the author have for failure are about the exchanges being short of enrollees. That doesn't hold up as the exchanges did okay.

Most of the other reasons the author calls it a failure are predictions for the future- not facts about now.

Still it was an interesting read- but the author probably has a stake in calling obamacare a failure as she is promoting a book she wrote last year, which calls obamacare a failure.
 
2014-06-18 10:38:52 PM

jso2897: I totally agree with everything you just said - are you under the impression that I would disagree in any way? I was never under the impression that we have a "private" health system - only that politics demand that the private sector ...


Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I run into a lot of people who believe that the facade is the entire system without realizing what lies underneath, and jumped to conclusions.
 
2014-06-18 10:41:04 PM

smellysocksnshoes: robv83: Forbes has a pretty detailed article showing Obamacare to be an abject failure.

I just read that- interesting article. It is from march- most of the reasons the author have for failure are about the exchanges being short of enrollees. That doesn't hold up as the exchanges did okay.

Most of the other reasons the author calls it a failure are predictions for the future- not facts about now.

Still it was an interesting read- but the author probably has a stake in calling obamacare a failure as she is promoting a book she wrote last year, which calls obamacare a failure.



Yah, but I'm talking about the article from last week. The one that breaks down the enrollment numbers and shows new enrollments for the previously uninsured to be effectively zero.
 
2014-06-18 10:43:04 PM

SomeAmerican: jso2897: That's the only way it can work in America - we have to give the "private sector" their shot at it, let them f**k it up out of greed, and finally pull the plug and institute a real national health service. It will take another two generations.

Sorry for the repeat post, but I'm going to dust this one off from another thread, as it is relevant:

Usually articles like this are followed by comments like "if only we had public healthcare!".

Sorry to dash your hopes, but we are already do.  Two thirds of US healthcare is paid for by the government, and that's expected to expand under the ACA.  We have not one, not two, but six independent public healthcare systems: Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the VA, CHIP, and FEP.  Don't expect a shift of 66% public to say 75% public, or a move from 6 public plans to say 7 to make any real difference.

What we have in the US is a façade of private insurers on top of a deeply fragmented, poorly run public healthcare system.  Private insurers are the healthcare equivalent of defense contractors.... bloated semi-private / semi-public entities that give politicians plausible deniability for how messed up the system is while they rack up personal fortunes through cozy industry relationships.

What's needed now isn't another public plan, but a consolidation of the ones that we already have.  We need reform of how providers are organized and paid, preferably with risk and quality adjusted per member payments.  And we need to cap those payments at a growth rate lower than inflation (using the Singapore model) for several decades until pricing comes in line with the rest of the world.

Yes the US healthcare system is a corrupt mess... but our government is an eager participant in the scam.


Good points- now if you can articulate how to accomplish this in a very divisive DC, then I would enjoy watching you lose a primary to a partisan hack.
 
2014-06-18 10:47:07 PM

SomeAmerican: jso2897: I totally agree with everything you just said - are you under the impression that I would disagree in any way? I was never under the impression that we have a "private" health system - only that politics demand that the private sector ...

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I run into a lot of people who believe that the facade is the entire system without realizing what lies underneath, and jumped to conclusions.


We haven't had "private medicine" in this country since the frontier days. Every aspect of medicine is overseen by the state. Doctors are licensed. Drugs are controlled, and certified for use. Emergency rooms are required to accept all comers, and quackery is outlawed. And, of course, we have many layers of government funding and assistance.
And way too much of it is run for the benefit of private, profit-seeking entities.
But I also, sadly have to agree with you that it will have to get worse before it gets better.
 
2014-06-18 10:48:55 PM

Mentat: I'll be damned.  A Republican idea actually worked.


You forget the original Republican plan was to force people to buy insurance that covered nothing and could still drop you for daring to use it. It's a tiny difference.
 
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