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(io9)   Wyoming legislature screws up science education so badly that even the Church is calling out their BS   (io9.com) divider line 37
    More: Asinine, Historical Method, National Research, Wyoming Legislature, Scientific Method, state board of education, Billings Gazette, Next Generation Science Standards, just a theory  
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3159 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Jun 2014 at 1:03 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 12:16:34 PM
This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.
 
2014-06-18 12:58:33 PM

snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.


You appear to be a "both sides are bad"-style shill that doesn't even have the spine to openly state your idiotic beliefs.
 
2014-06-18 01:11:32 PM
There's a reason why faith and knowledge have different definitions.  STUDY IT OUT.
 
2014-06-18 01:16:42 PM
Oh, common core objectors that are basing their objections on fantasy rather than some of the grounded in reality objections revealing their true colors as fundy creationists.

We get it.  You can't help on your kid's homework and cannot be bothered to actually read the standards or call you kid's teacher for help.

There are some valid objections to common core.  Testing is still involved.  Using the new test for teacher evals is probably not a good idea, at least until we've had a batch of students that have used common core from k-12.  The curriculum materials are still purchased from the lowest bidder via private contract.

I don't believe "The test is too hard" is a valid objection though.  Also, claiming the standards are part Agenda 21, being a climate change denier, or creationist automatically invalidates your opinion on what should be taught in the public school system.
 
2014-06-18 01:24:52 PM
Oh, how I wish Episcopals were the common voice for "The Church".
 
2014-06-18 01:26:20 PM

Herb Utsmelz: There's a reason why faith and knowledge have different definitions.  STUDY IT OUT.


The Rev agress with you

FTA:
"Science is important, peer-proven," Rev. Warren Murphy, a Cody-based Episcopalian minister Billings Gazette. "Faith is something else. It shouldn't interfere with what science is doing. ... Whether it was 6,000 years ago or Adam and Eve or dinosaurs, it was all created by God."
"Our concern isn't fighting the Legislature, and it's not to take issue with other people's faith," he added. "It's simply saying faith is a belief system; science isn't. Let's keep them separate."
 
2014-06-18 01:39:30 PM
I don't get.  HOW would teaching climate change destroy the economy?

I've never been able to get anyone to fully explain to me the reason to deny climate change?  Why does everyone take it so personally that it must be false? What's the counterargument?  Is it in the bible that it's fake?!
 
2014-06-18 01:44:05 PM
The Catholic Church has founded and maintains some of the finest science research and education universities in the world.  The Catholic Church, for all of its other faults, is not anti-science.  This movement is created and populated by people with severe thought disorders.

Last Sunday at Mass our priest was talking about the personal struggle of faith when God is  silent.  He made the comment that the Earth is billions of years old and that humankind has been present on Earth for a very short period of time.  As far as we know, God was silent for billions of years.  Well, as far as we know.  No one jumped up and said, "Hold on, the Earth was just formed a few thousand years ago."  This anti-intelligence movement is not a Catholic thing.

This anti-education insanity is not reflective of Christianity.  It is a fantasy created by self-appointed preachers who make it up as they go along, fake churches with no history or scholarship.
 
2014-06-18 01:45:21 PM
I'm all for Republicans saying they don't believe in climate change, and opposing measures to address it.

But if they end up being wrong, we execute them.
 
2014-06-18 01:46:20 PM

T-Boy: The Catholic Church has founded and maintains some of the finest science research and education universities in the world.  The Catholic Church, for all of its other faults, is not anti-science.  This movement is created and populated by people with severe thought disorders.


THIS
 
2014-06-18 01:47:30 PM

nitefallz: I don't get.  HOW would teaching climate change destroy the economy?

I've never been able to get anyone to fully explain to me the reason to deny climate change?  Why does everyone take it so personally that it must be false? What's the counterargument?  Is it in the bible that it's fake?!


They sell coal, and don't want to bother gaining the skills necessary to do something actually productive.
 
2014-06-18 01:59:15 PM
Then, a month later, the State Board of Education told the committee of science educators to develop a new set of standards, which would better reflect the values and economic interests of Wyoming.

So is that an admission by Wyoming politicians that a well-educated populace is not a value nor is in the economic interests of Wyoming?
 
2014-06-18 02:00:47 PM
do republicans have a secret planet they're planning on emigrating to? or do they just think the rapture is near and that they don't need to worry about the earth?
 
2014-06-18 02:02:03 PM
How many school children are there in Wyoming? 200, maybe?
 
2014-06-18 02:04:01 PM
This just leads me to wonder what is going through the legislator's minds.

Do they really not believe in climate change? If so, wouldn't their primary objection be that they don't want kids to learn things that aren't true, so the economic ramifications are irrelevant?

Because the other option is that they don't really doubt climate science, but instead are so short sighted and selfish that they don't care about the rest of the world or their children, but just don't want to be inconvenienced right now, and are willing to say and do anything to help their bottom line today. That's just a level of sociopathy I don't want to believe runs a large number of statehouses in the US.
 
2014-06-18 02:13:00 PM
FTFA: "...the State Board of Education told the committee of science educators to develop a new set of standards, which would better reflect the values and economic interests of Wyoming."

That's not what science is for, morans.  Science doesn't care what your values are.  You can't change science just because reality conflicts with your beliefs.  How hard is this to understand?
 
2014-06-18 02:13:51 PM

nitefallz: I don't get.  HOW would teaching climate change destroy the economy?

I've never been able to get anyone to fully explain to me the reason to deny climate change?  Why does everyone take it so personally that it must be false? What's the counterargument?  Is it in the bible that it's fake?!


A good chunk of Wyoming's economy is based on resource extraction, specifically fossil fuels.  So it is a purely greed based to deny climate change is happening.  They want that money and those jobs, damn the rest of the planet.

Hell, the PNW is pushing back pretty hard on the plans to export Wyoming coal to Asia.  Granted they've been down this road before, where big promises of many jobs were made at the coal export terminals, only to have the market drop, the terminals shutdown, and the cities and states were left holding the bag and shouldering site cleanup costs.  I think one terminal along the West Coast even exploded back in the 80s
 
2014-06-18 02:23:20 PM

FlashHarry: do republicans have a secret planet they're planning on emigrating to? or do they just think the rapture is near and that they don't need to worry about the earth?


It's the latter.  It's a point of faith among fundamentalists that the Rapture will come in their lifetimes, no matter how many times they've been proven wrong before.
 
2014-06-18 02:41:22 PM

anfrind: FlashHarry: do republicans have a secret planet they're planning on emigrating to? or do they just think the rapture is near and that they don't need to worry about the earth?

It's the latter.  It's a point of faith among fundamentalists that the Rapture will come in their lifetimes, no matter how many times they've been proven wrong before.


Also they're possibly citing God telling Noah that he won't destroy the world again, therefore, God will not allow climate change to have any negative effects.
 
2014-06-18 03:00:49 PM

FlashHarry: do republicans have a secret planet they're planning on emigrating to? or do they just think the rapture is near and that they don't need to worry about the earth?


Your average republican is seventy years old. They'll be dead and gone before the shiat hits the fan, even if the rapture doesn't happen.
 
2014-06-18 03:03:55 PM
 
2014-06-18 03:22:02 PM
Wyoming has an economy?   now That is news.


Hint to Wyoming: you aren't the only piece of land in the world affected by climate change.
 
2014-06-18 03:22:57 PM

nmrsnr: qorkfiend: Also they're possibly citing God telling Noah that he won't destroy the world again, therefore, God will not allow climate change to have any negative effects.

You might be joking, but Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois wasn't when he said: "As long as the earth endures, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease. I believe that is the infallible word of God, and that's the way it is going to be for his creation. The earth will end only when God declares its time to be over. Man will not destroy this earth. This earth will not be destroyed by a flood."


He's probably right. But destroyed and unable to sustain human life are separate things. Too bad so many people aren't able to grasp this fairly important point.
 
2014-06-18 03:45:01 PM

T-Boy: The Catholic Church has founded and maintains some of the finest science research and education universities in the world.  The Catholic Church, for all of its other faults, is not anti-science.  This movement is created and populated by people with severe thought disorders.

Last Sunday at Mass our priest was talking about the personal struggle of faith when God is  silent.  He made the comment that the Earth is billions of years old and that humankind has been present on Earth for a very short period of time.  As far as we know, God was silent for billions of years.  Well, as far as we know.  No one jumped up and said, "Hold on, the Earth was just formed a few thousand years ago."  This anti-intelligence movement is not a Catholic thing.

This anti-education insanity is not reflective of Christianity.  It is a fantasy created by self-appointed preachers who make it up as they go along, fake churches with no history or scholarship.


You can talk about how wonderfully ahead the Catholic church is on science when they stop recommending abstinence to prevent AIDS.
 
2014-06-18 04:18:26 PM

Linux_Yes: Wyoming has an economy?   now That is news.


Hint to Wyoming: you aren't the only piece of land in the world affected by climate change.


The "1.4,trillion tons"  citation needed of coal in Wyoming (and other western US states)is a big deal in terms of the total world burnable carbon. If it becomes economic to mine, it can significantly affect global warming models.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_Wyoming

Although if the human race start collecting the methane hydrates from the ocean floors, that's a whole new level of suck...
 
2014-06-18 04:22:02 PM

opiumpoopy: Linux_Yes: Wyoming has an economy?   now That is news.


Hint to Wyoming: you aren't the only piece of land in the world affected by climate change.

The "1.4,trillion tons"  citation needed of coal in Wyoming (and other western US states)is a big deal in terms of the total world burnable carbon. If it becomes economic to mine, it can significantly affect global warming models.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_Wyoming

Although if the human race start collecting the methane hydrates from the ocean floors, that's a whole new level of suck...


As I mentioned up thread, it is already economical to mine, they are working on making it more economical to mine by trying to ship more of it overseas.
 
2014-06-18 05:57:01 PM

Cagey B: snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.

You appear to be a "both sides are bad"-style shill that doesn't even have the spine to openly state your idiotic beliefs.


pats little pointy head
skritches ears

Go lie down.
 
2014-06-18 06:53:51 PM

snocone: Cagey B: snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.

You appear to be a "both sides are bad"-style shill that doesn't even have the spine to openly state your idiotic beliefs.

pats little pointy head
skritches ears

Go lie down.


Why? He's apparently right. You're implying that, in an anti-intellectualism push by politicians driven solely by the need to placate business interests, that somehow scientists are just as much to blame - one of the "gang of thieves", as you put it. On the one side, yes, we have a group of short-sighted idiots more worried about their wallets than their world. On the other side, we have scientists, who are actually worried about their world. You seem to be equating these folks, which really does make you appear ignorant. As we've heard about this particular bit of belief before on FARK, wherein some moron implies conspiracy on the part of the scientific community to somehow deprive or defraud corporations, "idiotic beliefs" appears appropriate.

The only thing worse than ignorance is ignorance welded to condescension. That's how many of these politicians attained office, after all.
 
2014-06-18 08:35:31 PM

FormlessOne: snocone: Cagey B: snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.

You appear to be a "both sides are bad"-style shill that doesn't even have the spine to openly state your idiotic beliefs.

pats little pointy head
skritches ears

Go lie down.

Why? He's apparently right. You're implying that, in an anti-intellectualism push by politicians driven solely by the need to placate business interests, that somehow scientists are just as much to blame - one of the "gang of thieves", as you put it. On the one side, yes, we have a group of short-sighted idiots more worried about their wallets than their world. On the other side, we have scientists, who are actually worried about their world. You seem to be equating these folks, which really does make you appear ignorant. As we've heard about this particular bit of belief before on FARK, wherein some moron implies conspiracy on the part of the scientific community to somehow deprive or defraud corporations, "idiotic beliefs" appears appropriate.

The only thing worse than ignorance is ignorance welded to condescension. That's how many of these politicians attained office, after all.


Holey Zhit! You inferred all that stupid from 2 sentences.
Wow! just WOW!
 
2014-06-18 09:41:27 PM

insertsnarkyusername: T-Boy: The Catholic Church has founded and maintains some of the finest science research and education universities in the world.  The Catholic Church, for all of its other faults, is not anti-science.  This movement is created and populated by people with severe thought disorders.

Last Sunday at Mass our priest was talking about the personal struggle of faith when God is  silent.  He made the comment that the Earth is billions of years old and that humankind has been present on Earth for a very short period of time.  As far as we know, God was silent for billions of years.  Well, as far as we know.  No one jumped up and said, "Hold on, the Earth was just formed a few thousand years ago."  This anti-intelligence movement is not a Catholic thing.

This anti-education insanity is not reflective of Christianity.  It is a fantasy created by self-appointed preachers who make it up as they go along, fake churches with no history or scholarship.

You can talk about how wonderfully ahead the Catholic church is on science when they stop recommending abstinence to prevent AIDS.


To be fair, it would prevent the spread of hiv. It may not be a workable solution, but it is a logical and effective one.
 
2014-06-19 06:17:48 AM
For instance, the Wyoming Citizens Opposing Common Core objects to the NGSS guideline that, by the end of second grade, students should understand that, "Some kinds of plants and animals that once lived on Earth (e.g., dinosaurs) are no longer found anywhere, although others now living (e.g., lizards) resemble them in some ways."

When a documented history of extinct species threatens your religious worldview, maybe it's time to re-examine your believes.
 
2014-06-19 07:21:19 AM
Interesting about the church being involved. Recently there was a "Do You Like This?" on my FB page emoloring Xians to get behind efforts to halt climate change. "Take Care of God's Creation," was the basic message.

So I shared it on my page to troll my Xian friends. As expected, nothing. It could be they ignore my posts, Whatever.
 
2014-06-19 09:23:58 AM
So what I take away from this is them basically saying, "We don't like this curriculum because the truth hurts and we'd rather pander to Big Oil in the interest of kickbacks political and economic stability than risk losing money for the sake of environmental responsibility."

Good jorb, Wyoming.  At least you have the courtesy to be open about being a greedy douchebag.
 
2014-06-19 10:56:01 AM

snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.


No, that does not appear to be the case at all.  When one side is pushing against teaching evolution, that side is full-stop wrong.
 
2014-06-19 11:47:23 AM

kim jong-un: snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.

No, that does not appear to be the case at all.  When one side is pushing against teaching evolution, that side is full-stop wrong.


These are not theologians debating.
These are corporate interests at work.
Each pasting "names" on the other.
 
2014-06-19 03:52:20 PM
While they have a good stand on education, I still say they put out one of the best albums of all time:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-19 08:16:07 PM

snocone: kim jong-un: snocone: This appears not to be about education or science.
It is all MONEY and which gang of thieves gets it.

No, that does not appear to be the case at all.  When one side is pushing against teaching evolution, that side is full-stop wrong.

These are not theologians debating.
These are corporate interests at work.
Each pasting "names" on the other.



Don't forget that empirical evidence and science is informing one side more than the other, something that may be missing from your valuation.

It's sometimes easy to just dismiss an entire debate with broad strokes of a brush, but I suggest that this risks unnecessarily dismissing valid and important differences. Just be careful that you're not relying on the perception of "corporate interests" as a way to not have to actually evaluate the relative merits of each point of view.
 
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