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(PC Gamer)   How cheating in video games has became a business worth millions of dollars a year   (pcgamer.com) divider line 111
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5226 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Jun 2014 at 4:33 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 03:40:48 PM  
Prophet started cheating so he could play with his kids. He's "over 50," and suffers from a serious visual impairment. He says that without ESP (extrasensory perception), part of the wallhacking cheat that highlights enemy players with bright red boxes, he wouldn't be able to keep up. "If I did not use cheats I would not be playing at all," he said.

www.myfacewhen.net

Seriously, f*ck your stupid justifications. I can at least somewhat respect a person who says they cheat simply to be a colossal asshole. Don't bullshiat with "Well I wanna be competitive and play with my kids!"
 
2014-06-18 04:39:25 PM  
Does buying gold in MMORPG's count as cheating?
 
2014-06-18 04:40:14 PM  
As long as there's been video games, there's been cheating? Yes, because most games had their cheats built in, so no investment was needed.
/up down up down b a start from my cold dead hands...
 
2014-06-18 04:41:15 PM  
I don't consider it cheating, to be honest. I've never done it myself and personally I hate bots. But let's be honest here. Whatever the justifications "cheaters" give it is nothing in comparison to the justifications developer's give. The fact is that banning cheaters (a) costs the developer money and (b) results in lost revenue. So it's always a economic net loss for the developer to do anything about it. So it's all bullshiat. The developer does enough so that he can pretend like he's "doing something about the problem" without actually doing anything to crimp the revenue stream.

So the developer's give the behavior a sly wink. That's not cheating in my book.
 
2014-06-18 04:42:43 PM  
sp1.yimg.com
 
2014-06-18 04:42:43 PM  

zulius: As long as there's been video games, there's been cheating? Yes, because most games had their cheats built in, so no investment was needed.
/up down up down b a start from my cold dead hands...



There is a difference between cheating in a single player game and cheating in a multi player game where your bullsh*t affects others

I think thats the main difference from our generation and the new Halo kids
 
2014-06-18 04:44:04 PM  
Meh. As long as it's relatively rare, I usually find it more amusing than not. You get some guy who's very obvious about it, and talking shiat like he's a god, then (once in a blue moon) he's banned right there in the middle of the match. I can only imagine his spittle and rage at having spent money just to get banned. Totally worth a few bad games.

Then, of course, there are the dark days when it seems some new cheat package just came out, and every other match has a bunch of cheaters in it, and it takes a few days for the admins to figure it out. That sucks.
 
2014-06-18 04:45:35 PM  

Devo: Does buying gold in MMORPG's count as cheating?


Only if they don't offer you the option to buy it from them, and once they do, it's probably fair game to buy it from anyone selling it.
 
2014-06-18 04:46:45 PM  

Devo: Does buying gold in MMORPG's count as cheating?


Not if you could reasonable grind out the gold on your own. Then it is just being Lazy. ;)
 
2014-06-18 04:50:49 PM  
idkfa
 
2014-06-18 04:54:10 PM  

worlddan: I don't consider it cheating, to be honest. I've never done it myself and personally I hate bots. But let's be honest here. Whatever the justifications "cheaters" give it is nothing in comparison to the justifications developer's give. The fact is that banning cheaters (a) costs the developer money and (b) results in lost revenue. So it's always a economic net loss for the developer to do anything about it. So it's all bullshiat. The developer does enough so that he can pretend like he's "doing something about the problem" without actually doing anything to crimp the revenue stream.

So the developer's give the behavior a sly wink. That's not cheating in my book.


Uh, are you considering the fact that non-cheaters get frustrated by people cheating, and may cease to by the game/stop buying games made by future developers/tell friends not to buy those games because the multiplayer is full of wallhackers?

That would, you know. Kind of also have a negative impact on revenue.
 
2014-06-18 04:54:46 PM  

smerfnablin: zulius: As long as there's been video games, there's been cheating? Yes, because most games had their cheats built in, so no investment was needed.
/up down up down b a start from my cold dead hands...


There is a difference between cheating in a single player game and cheating in a multi player game where your bullsh*t affects others

I think thats the main difference from our generation and the new Halo kids


That's what I'm talking about. The author is referring to bs online gaming, but speaks like they're the only ones to ever exist.
 
2014-06-18 04:55:07 PM  
Halfway into my next match, two hours total since I started cheating, I was VAC-banned from CS:GO.

Hmm.  This is the bit that makes me question this report a little.  My understanding of how VAC works is that when it detects you are cheating, it bans you weeks or even months later.  The goal for the delayed ban is that many cheaters use multiple cheats at the same time, and the delayed ban makes it hard for you to figure out which cheat actually triggered the ban (in case you are using one that VAC didn't happen to catch).

However, (as mentioned in the article) Valve intentionally is extremely vague on the precise details of how VAC works, so maybe sometimes it bans quickly and sometimes on a delayed basis.
 
2014-06-18 04:56:55 PM  

btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]


Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.
 
2014-06-18 05:01:31 PM  
While some folks may want to pull out the tired references to built in cheats, it's a huge difference from cheating AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS.

Keep it to your single player games you pathetic douche-bags.
 
2014-06-18 05:08:13 PM  

ReverendJynxed: While some folks may want to pull out the tired references to built in cheats, it's a huge difference from cheating AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS.


I can only imagine that it's much more fun--for the cheater--for that reason.    There are plenty of non-cheating jerks in every game, and setting those people off is fun for a lot of other players.
 
2014-06-18 05:08:46 PM  

ReverendJynxed: While some folks may want to pull out the tired references to built in cheats, it's a huge difference from cheating AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS.

Keep it to your single player games you pathetic douche-bags.


Agreed.  When you cheat using a single player game, you're not really hurting anybody else.  At most, a trainer could give you an unfair advantage against another player when you do go head-to-head via multi-player.

But when you cheat during a multi-player game, you ruin it for the other people.  Why would I want to play if investing several weeks in a game to get better can be undermined by a $10 cheat?
 
2014-06-18 05:11:27 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Seriously, f*ck your stupid justifications. I can at least somewhat respect a person who says they cheat simply to be a colossal asshole. Don't bullshiat with "Well I wanna be competitive and play with my kids!"


Assholes will always be assholes and will have a never ending list of reason why cheating is perfectly ok for them...
 
2014-06-18 05:11:28 PM  

Geotpf: Halfway into my next match, two hours total since I started cheating, I was VAC-banned from CS:GO.

Hmm.  This is the bit that makes me question this report a little.  My understanding of how VAC works is that when it detects you are cheating, it bans you weeks or even months later.  The goal for the delayed ban is that many cheaters use multiple cheats at the same time, and the delayed ban makes it hard for you to figure out which cheat actually triggered the ban (in case you are using one that VAC didn't happen to catch).

However, (as mentioned in the article) Valve intentionally is extremely vague on the precise details of how VAC works, so maybe sometimes it bans quickly and sometimes on a delayed basis.


I wonder if the account only having one game, that he was cheating on, had anything to do with it.
Maybe they squash single game accounts faster, in case someone is testing a new cheat?
 
2014-06-18 05:12:42 PM  

worlddan: I don't consider it cheating, to be honest. I've never done it myself and personally I hate bots. But let's be honest here. Whatever the justifications "cheaters" give it is nothing in comparison to the justifications developer's give. The fact is that banning cheaters (a) costs the developer money and (b) results in lost revenue. So it's always a economic net loss for the developer to do anything about it. So it's all bullshiat. The developer does enough so that he can pretend like he's "doing something about the problem" without actually doing anything to crimp the revenue stream.

So the developer's give the behavior a sly wink. That's not cheating in my book.


Did you read the article? It talks about being able to see through walls, auto-aiming, and auto-firing when a cursor passes over an opponent, it's not about the (single player) cheats that many devs build into the game. If you did read the article, what the hell DO you consider cheating?
 
2014-06-18 05:15:36 PM  

Rhypskallion: ReverendJynxed: While some folks may want to pull out the tired references to built in cheats, it's a huge difference from cheating AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS.

I can only imagine that it's much more fun--for the cheater--for that reason.    There are plenty of non-cheating jerks in every game, and setting those people off is fun for a lot of other players.


Yep...I think that is definitely a factor.

/some people just want to watch the world burn troll
 
2014-06-18 05:17:21 PM  

ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.


mp1st.com
word
 
2014-06-18 05:18:44 PM  

Dinjiin: But when you cheat during a multi-player game, you ruin it for the other people. Why would I want to play if investing several weeks in a game to get better can be undermined by a $10 cheat?


Virtually every multiplayer game I've ever played was eventually ruined by cheaters.  I don't know why I keep buying them... I know what it will turn into.

I think my greatest disappointments came from Unreal Tournament and BF2.  Two games I loved to play just for the joy of playing... forever ruined by 'haxors'.
 
2014-06-18 05:20:13 PM  
Playing TF2 and usually it's not too bad.  Every now and then I think someone may be cheating because it seemed like I died while I was behind a wall (or they were if they're a sniper) but it can be difficult to tell.

Then there are other times when it's blatantly obvious.  One match had a guy using auto-aim/whatever and he was playing a sniper (on defense, capture the point).  Yep, 1 shot everyone...I was curious to the extent of the cheat so I swapped classes to a spy and just cloaked and walked out, "bam!  dead"  Oookay...

Of course he was gloating...luckily he left (got kicked?) after the one match.

/the 'funny' part is when his teammates were all like, "come on guys, you stink, you can't even capture the first point!"
//uh yeah, because we die when exit the spawn
 
2014-06-18 05:20:21 PM  

ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.


Are you saying "camping" (which is what that picture is clearly referring to) is "outsmarting"?  If so,  I would beg to differ, because there is nothing particularly brilliant about sitting in a corner of the map (or building) and not moving, just praying that somebody decides to come your way.

Although, I should say I don't think that what a lot of people call camping actually is.  For instance, a lot of folks will refer to someone that holds an area, or building that is centrally located, and where you can see and control a large area of a map as a camper.  I see nothing wrong with that sort of playing.  The campers that are just waste of space are those that sit in a corner of a building (or might move from one corner to another) and only get kills if someone happens to stumble upon them.  If everybody played that way, nobody would ever get any kills.

As for cheats, I only like that they exist because it helps tell how well am I doing, by how many people accuse me of cheating.

/never used a cheat/hack in any FPS
//cheated like crazy at Ultima Online
 
2014-06-18 05:20:32 PM  

Geotpf: Halfway into my next match, two hours total since I started cheating, I was VAC-banned from CS:GO.

Hmm.  This is the bit that makes me question this report a little.  My understanding of how VAC works is that when it detects you are cheating, it bans you weeks or even months later.  The goal for the delayed ban is that many cheaters use multiple cheats at the same time, and the delayed ban makes it hard for you to figure out which cheat actually triggered the ban (in case you are using one that VAC didn't happen to catch).

However, (as mentioned in the article) Valve intentionally is extremely vague on the precise details of how VAC works, so maybe sometimes it bans quickly and sometimes on a delayed basis.


From what I understand, the wait period exists for new hacks. For existing ones that VAC has already taken action against, action taken against the cheater is pretty swift.
 
2014-06-18 05:20:51 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-06-18 05:21:24 PM  

worlddan: I don't consider it cheating, to be honest. I've never done it myself and personally I hate bots. But let's be honest here. Whatever the justifications "cheaters" give it is nothing in comparison to the justifications developer's give. The fact is that banning cheaters (a) costs the developer money and (b) results in lost revenue. So it's always a economic net loss for the developer to do anything about it. So it's all bullshiat. The developer does enough so that he can pretend like he's "doing something about the problem" without actually doing anything to crimp the revenue stream.

So the developer's give the behavior a sly wink. That's not cheating in my book.


Without a citation I would like to throw out a guess that a lot of cheaters are not using game keys they actually paid for.

Some fake 'trainers' and 'wall hacks' actually steal registration / activation key info (or used to, at any rate).

Why buy a game when you can steal it from someone else?
 
kgf
2014-06-18 05:21:53 PM  

ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.


Video gamers call it camping, but in real life it's called a "fixed defensive position".  There are two types of people who play FPS's like Battlefield and COD:  "video gamers" who like to prove they can position the little dot on the screen faster and more proceisley than you (these are the run 'n' gunners), and simulation fans who like to  immerse themsleves in a simulated combat situation.  This is where you will find most "campers".  Thing is, run 'n' gunners constantly complain about campers, but campers never complain about run 'n' gunners.  Wonder why that is.  Hmm, because camping is a better strategy and the run 'n' gunners are frustrated?
 
2014-06-18 05:21:56 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Prophet started cheating so he could play with his kids. He's "over 50," and suffers from a serious visual impairment. He says that without ESP (extrasensory perception), part of the wallhacking cheat that highlights enemy players with bright red boxes, he wouldn't be able to keep up. "If I did not use cheats I would not be playing at all," he said.

[www.myfacewhen.net image 400x400]

Seriously, f*ck your stupid justifications. I can at least somewhat respect a person who says they cheat simply to be a colossal asshole. Don't bullshiat with "Well I wanna be competitive and play with my kids!"


I dont consider that cheating.  Heck whenever I play my kid in a round of basketball I freakn own him.  He is lucky to even get a shot off.....  Come back kid when you break 4 ft.... little punk.
 
2014-06-18 05:24:02 PM  
Cheating in single-player games has its place, mostly to skip over things that aren't fun or that shouldn't have been left in the game at all.

I'm talking, of course, about the rock-paper-scissors minigame in Xenogears.  I feel no guilt whatsoever about cheating my way past that.

Online games hold no appeal for me.  These days, you have to work so hard to get good enough to win once in a while that it isn't worth it.  Supposedly, you get better by practicing, but to me, practicing an online game to get better at it is like watching a foreign movie with no subtitles in order to try to learn a language.  Everything is too fast; I was good at video games back when I was a kid in the SNES era, and I can't keep up now.

The slower online games, like MMOs, have a similar problem.  Everyone at the top has been playing for years (actual years of game time), and I won't be turning a game into a part time or full time job, so I'll never be good at those, either.

My point is that if someone is cheating in an online game, I'll never even know.  It's hard enough to be even slightly competitive against the non-cheaters.
 
2014-06-18 05:25:08 PM  
Always wondered what wall hacks looked like, never cared enough to find out.
I remember a guy on the older Counter Strike servers that got great pleasure by getting a knife kill on hackers, I mean it made it whole day it seemed.
 
2014-06-18 05:26:43 PM  

smd31: Playing TF2 and usually it's not too bad.  Every now and then I think someone may be cheating because it seemed like I died while I was behind a wall (or they were if they're a sniper) but it can be difficult to tell.

Then there are other times when it's blatantly obvious.  One match had a guy using auto-aim/whatever and he was playing a sniper (on defense, capture the point).  Yep, 1 shot everyone...I was curious to the extent of the cheat so I swapped classes to a spy and just cloaked and walked out, "bam!  dead"  Oookay...

Of course he was gloating...luckily he left (got kicked?) after the one match.

/the 'funny' part is when his teammates were all like, "come on guys, you stink, you can't even capture the first point!"
//uh yeah, because we die when exit the spawn


Had a similar experience in TF2 once.  Playing Dustbowl and an opponent was using the soldier and was wasting everyone who came out of the lower spawn exit.  He kept strafing across a tunnel exit behind the first capture point and had over 200 kills when I joined.  It was painfully obvious but nobody on his team did anything about it.

And then there were the wall hackers/item spawners in L4D.  Damn near ruined that game after Valve nerfed a lot of the multiplayer elements.
 
2014-06-18 05:29:30 PM  

kgf: ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.

Video gamers call it camping, but in real life it's called a "fixed defensive position".  There are two types of people who play FPS's like Battlefield and COD:  "video gamers" who like to prove they can position the little dot on the screen faster and more proceisley than you (these are the run 'n' gunners), and simulation fans who like to  immerse themsleves in a simulated combat situation.  This is where you will find most "campers".  Thing is, run 'n' gunners constantly complain about campers, but campers never complain about run 'n' gunners.  Wonder why that is.  Hmm, because camping is a better strategy and the run 'n' gunners are frustrated?


So you're a camper, good to know.
 
2014-06-18 05:29:52 PM  

worlddan: The fact is that banning cheaters (a) costs the developer money and (b) results in lost revenue.


Counter-point: The people who enjoy the game as it was meant to be are likely the ones buying it (that's right, I'm accusing cheaters of piracy, since they already show a lack for any kind of rules or ethics, I'm willing to bet there is a great overlap in that Venn diagram), and the more cheaters a game has, the less people will look forward to purchasing and buying the game. I certainly wouldn't waste time and money on a game that I knew was riddled with cheaters, since that shows the game is broken and the devs don't give a shiat.
 
2014-06-18 05:30:27 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Prophet started cheating so he could play with his kids. He's "over 50," and suffers from a serious visual impairment. He says that without ESP (extrasensory perception), part of the wallhacking cheat that highlights enemy players with bright red boxes, he wouldn't be able to keep up. "If I did not use cheats I would not be playing at all," he said.

[www.myfacewhen.net image 400x400]

Seriously, f*ck your stupid justifications. I can at least somewhat respect a person who says they cheat simply to be a colossal asshole. Don't bullshiat with "Well I wanna be competitive and play with my kids!"


Ya fark that guy.  I play games like MWO with people who are considered legally blind.  And they don't need to cheat.
 
2014-06-18 05:36:29 PM  

btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]


Lol.

Awesome.
 
2014-06-18 05:36:29 PM  

TonyDanza: ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.

Are you saying "camping" (which is what that picture is clearly referring to) is "outsmarting"?  If so,  I would beg to differ, because there is nothing particularly brilliant about sitting in a corner of the map (or building) and not moving, just praying that somebody decides to come your way.

Although, I should say I don't think that what a lot of people call camping actually is.  For instance, a lot of folks will refer to someone that holds an area, or building that is centrally located, and where you can see and control a large area of a map as a camper.  I see nothing wrong with that sort of playing.  The campers that are just waste of space are those that sit in a corner of a building (or might move from one corner to another) and only get kills if someone happens to stumble upon them.  If everybody played that way, nobody would ever get any kills.

As for cheats, I only like that they exist because it helps tell how well am I doing, by how many people accuse me of cheating.

/never used a cheat/hack in any FPS
//cheated like crazy at Ultima Online


I don't have a problem with camping. I might do it if the next kill gives me a bonus, but it is built into the game. No problem.
 
2014-06-18 05:40:32 PM  

Raider_dad: Always wondered what wall hacks looked like, never cared enough to find out.
I remember a guy on the older Counter Strike servers that got great pleasure by getting a knife kill on hackers, I mean it made it whole day it seemed.


That's me.  My second favorite moment from that game is knifing a wall hacker/auto-aim/auto-fire cheater while he was reloading.  The entire game taunted him until he left after that.

/Favorite is an online friend and I charging at a server hosts 4 or 5 year old kid with knives while he gunned us down with the machine gun and hearing him laugh at the hopping bad guys.
//Everyone else knew if they shot us, they got kicked/banned
 
2014-06-18 05:40:36 PM  

Flappyhead: So you're a camper, good to know.


That was all I got out of his post too.  Something I always find funny is pretty much everybody that is good at "running and gunning" can easily switch to camping and do just as well if not better than the hardcore campers, but very fewer campers can play any other way without getting destroyed.
 
2014-06-18 05:42:26 PM  

Devo: I don't have a problem with camping. I might do it if the next kill gives me a bonus, but it is built into the game. No problem.


Camping is built into the game like diving is a part of soccer.  Sure, it exists and it's easy to do, but the game would be sooooo much better if people didn't do it.
 
kab
2014-06-18 05:49:13 PM  
Winning a match via advantages is pointless.    You might as well be a lowbie ganker in WoW.   Yeah, it can be done, but everyone is laughing at you.
 
2014-06-18 05:50:02 PM  
This is why when I was into FPS I forked over to host my own (orange box) servers and had myself and a few trusted SysOps running the show.  One, as a level designer I hated killbox maps, which most servers seemed to primarily keep in rotation.  Two, my sandbox... I don't like you, you get booted.

It was a virtual paradise while it lasted.
 
2014-06-18 05:50:44 PM  
What fun would GTA be without cheat codes to go on murderous rampages?
/none.....none fun.
 
2014-06-18 05:51:04 PM  

TonyDanza: ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.

Are you saying "camping" (which is what that picture is clearly referring to) is "outsmarting"?  If so,  I would beg to differ, because there is nothing particularly brilliant about sitting in a corner of the map (or building) and not moving, just praying that somebody decides to come your way.

Although, I should say I don't think that what a lot of people call camping actually is.  For instance, a lot of folks will refer to someone that holds an area, or building that is centrally located, and where you can see and control a large area of a map as a camper.  I see nothing wrong with that sort of playing.  The campers that are just waste of space are those that sit in a corner of a building (or might move from one corner to another) and only get kills if someone happens to stumble upon them.  If everybody played that way, nobody would ever get any kills.

As for cheats, I only like that they exist because it helps tell how well am I doing, by how many people accuse me of cheating.

/never used a cheat/hack in any FPS
//cheated like crazy at Ultima Online


I do very little gaming, but have played Quake Live from time to time.  Games like Capture The Flag involve both defence and offence. Having a few team members sniping to defend the flag isn't the sort of camping many think it is, any more than sweepers are camping in soccer.
 
2014-06-18 05:51:19 PM  

kgf: ikanreed: btraz70: [sp1.yimg.com image 300x168]

Some people play multiplayer games with the intent of "outsmarting" their opponents, and get no satisfaction from being faster and more precise.

Video gamers call it camping, but in real life it's called a "fixed defensive position".  There are two types of people who play FPS's like Battlefield and COD:  "video gamers" who like to prove they can position the little dot on the screen faster and more proceisley than you (these are the run 'n' gunners), and simulation fans who like to  immerse themsleves in a simulated combat situation.  This is where you will find most "campers".  Thing is, run 'n' gunners constantly complain about campers, but campers never complain about run 'n' gunners.  Wonder why that is.  Hmm, because camping is a better strategy and the run 'n' gunners are frustrated?


I always thought "camping" referred not really to an extremely good defensive position, but one that was ridiculously set -- like an area that the enemy must cross at a severe disadvantage.  Plus, the "camper" was unlikely to be competent at fighting outside those positions -- flush them out or force them to run for ammo and it became obvious they were overall lousy gamers whose scores were artifically inflated.

In real life, you could bypass "fixed defensive positions" or level them with bombing/artillery runs.  But with the non-destructible environments of games, if someone "camps" at the right point, they have a ridiculous advantage as you can't exactly "flatten the site".
 
kab
2014-06-18 05:54:17 PM  

TonyDanza: Camping is built into the game like diving is a part of soccer.  Sure, it exists and it's easy to do, but the game would be sooooo much better if people didn't do it.


Don't blame campers, blame poor map design that lets them hold a position so easily to begin with.
 
2014-06-18 05:58:50 PM  
I got accused of wall hacking once. I had to tell the guy repeatedly "No, I just saw your gun barrel poking around the corner, numbnuts".
 
2014-06-18 06:02:09 PM  
 

Metastatic Capricorn: Games like Capture The Flag involve both defence and offence. Having a few team members sniping to defend the flag isn't the sort of camping many think it is, any more than sweepers are camping in soccer.


Agreed.  I generally only consider someone a camper in a death match scenario.  Of if it is a game mode where defense is warranted, they are defending an entirely irrelevant point of the map, just to up their K:D.
 
2014-06-18 06:08:19 PM  

kab: Don't blame campers, blame poor map design that lets them hold a position so easily to begin with.


Don't blame the cheaters, blame the poor game design that lets them cheat so easily to begin with.
 
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