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(Slate)   The most discriminatory law in the United States is the Family Cap, which used to put a limit on how big a non-white family could be but today puts a cap on how big a family on government assistance can be. Naturally, people have a problem with it   (slate.com) divider line 373
    More: Obvious, Feed The Children, California State Assembly, Hoffman Estates, out-of-wedlock births, Fort Greene, House Republicans  
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5750 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2014 at 11:52 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 10:13:21 AM  
Time for the American Maos to make their appearance.
 
2014-06-18 11:55:16 AM  
Sounds like they should have thought about that before having 9 kids.

/ really California?
 
2014-06-18 11:55:54 AM  
As a super liberal I say, if only there were safe, effective methods of keeping from becoming pregnant with children your can't afford to care for we could avoid this heartache.
 
2014-06-18 11:56:01 AM  
"When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???
 
2014-06-18 11:56:20 AM  
'putting a cap' in somewhere used to mean something different...
 
2014-06-18 11:56:22 AM  
What a Family Cap may look like

images.halloweencostume.com
 
2014-06-18 11:57:29 AM  
If you want more of something, subsidize it.
 
2014-06-18 11:57:52 AM  
It was based on a racist stereotype of unfit black mothers. Today, family cap laws do nothing but punish the poor for being poor easy.
 
2014-06-18 11:58:07 AM  
Child benefits should be on a declining scale:  the first kid always costs the most, so one kid should = max benefits per child.  Each successive kid costs somewhat less (more hands to help out, more hand-me-downs, etc), so should get a bit less.  The counter to that is that we are below replacement birth rates, so maybe each extra kid should be worth more.
 
2014-06-18 11:58:24 AM  

ChipNASA: What a Family Cap may look like

[images.halloweencostume.com image 136x180]


Doesn't look like it will do a good job of keeping the sun out of your eyes.... but then, it does look good for keepign your head dry when it rains...
 
2014-06-18 11:59:08 AM  
Can't feed'm, don't have'm.
 
2014-06-18 11:59:09 AM  
American Mao here.

I'm actually OK with this one.  We should discourage people who can't take care of their children from popping out more.  We should discourage people who CAN take care of their children from popping out more.  Basically, we need to stop having so #%#$ing many children.

Are there better ways of discouraging it?  Yes!  Provide childcare items for everyone regardless of income level, as a subsidized commodity that cannot legally be transported outside of the U.S.  Do not pay people of any income level for having children (e.g. through tax breaks).

After that's done, provide contraceptive and abortion services universally, so that everyone can have access to them.

Finally, begin an education program en masse that shows how much happier people are without children.
 
2014-06-18 12:00:01 PM  
Ah, subsidizing the exponential growth of poor people at taxpayer expense. That'll work out well.
 
2014-06-18 12:00:22 PM  
I wonder what the Venn diagram of people complaining about this law and people complaining about people on welfare "having kids they can't afford" looks like.
 
2014-06-18 12:00:36 PM  

Wellon Dowd: As a super liberal I say, if only there were safe, effective methods of keeping from becoming pregnant with children your can't afford to care for we could avoid this heartache.


If only there were places where people could get free condoms, but none exist! Especially in a red state hell hole like California! hen will this conservative madness end?!?!?
 
2014-06-18 12:00:59 PM  
Ortiz was referring to the Maximum Family Grant rule, a provision of CalWORKs that denies assistance to new children in families that received benefits 10 months before the child's birth.

Does sound pretty idiotic, these people have kids and the answer is to punish the infant by making sure they won't get access to proper nutrition or diapers because that won't cause more expensive problems in the future. If it is penny wise and pound foolish it's fiscal conservatism.
 
2014-06-18 12:01:14 PM  

iheartscotch: Sounds like they should have thought about that before having 9 kids.

/ really California?


I spy with my little eye, someone who didn't read the farking article.

The rule in question denies welfare to children born to women who already have a child on welfare.  All you need is 2 to be affected by said rule.
 
2014-06-18 12:01:29 PM  
I'm torn between my desire to see children properly fed and slap women who can't even afford car seats on the way home from the hospital. Stop having kids, you idiots.
 
2014-06-18 12:01:36 PM  
Can't feed them; time to sell them for scientific experimentation.
 
2014-06-18 12:02:36 PM  
I came here to copy/paste the first paragraph. I see the stupidness of it has already been covered. Actually, I'm happy to see Fark and I have the same mentality on this one. Stop. Having. Farking. Children.
 
2014-06-18 12:03:54 PM  
Having kids for income that will most likely never make a contribution to society because of their circumstance?

Seriously, pack their ass up and ship them to an island in the pacific. The population rate will be determined by nature rather than the lack of responisibility.
 
2014-06-18 12:04:19 PM  
Collectivism does have to have a little foresight regarding overpopulation, but if that's not an apparent outstanding problem then there's no real justification for this line of reasoning.

//Not sure how I feel about that "if".
 
2014-06-18 12:05:12 PM  
People who claim that they are being punished for deciding to have children because they had children they knew they didn't have the resources to care for annoy me, but that's not the kids' fault and I don't think children should have restricted access to resources just because their parents are dumbasses.
 
2014-06-18 12:05:19 PM  

monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???


Sh*t happens and sometimes you have to ask for help. That said, people getting benefits should have mandatory birthcontrol.
 
2014-06-18 12:06:08 PM  

12349876: iheartscotch: Sounds like they should have thought about that before having 9 kids.

/ really California?

I spy with my little eye, someone who didn't read the farking article.

The rule in question denies welfare to children born to women who already have a child on welfare.  All you need is 2 to be affected by said rule.


Maybe I'm just a heartless bastard, but I'm still having trouble giving a fark.  If you already require welfare benefits just to care for one child why are you trying to have a second kid?
 
2014-06-18 12:06:26 PM  

monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???


I read her quote and had a brief but sudden and visceral urge to vote Republican.

Weird.
 
2014-06-18 12:06:54 PM  
So, the program is based upon the idea that if you are already on assistance then it creates disincentives to discourage you from having more dependents that you cannot support.

On paper it makes sense in practice it gets complicated.
 
2014-06-18 12:07:08 PM  

Wellon Dowd: As a super liberal I say, if only there were safe, effective methods of keeping from becoming pregnant with children your can't afford to care for we could avoid this heartache.


Most methods of birth control have a failure rate of at least 9 in 100. Expand that to a sexually active female population of 100 million or so and you have a lot of unintended pregnancies despite usage of birth control. In fact, 49% of all pregnancies are unintended.
 
2014-06-18 12:07:28 PM  

JoieD'Zen: monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???

Sh*t happens and sometimes you have to ask for help. That said, people getting benefits should have mandatory birthcontrol.


Yes, sh*t does happen but not in this case. She specifically stated they decided to have children. I actually do feel a social safety net needs to be in place but I don't like the idea of people jumping into it as opposed to falling into it.
 
2014-06-18 12:08:08 PM  
reillan: American Mao here.

After that's done, provide contraceptive and abortion services universally, so that everyone can have access to them.

What persons don't have access to condoms at present?
 
2014-06-18 12:09:07 PM  
FTA: "I had to go to charities, wait in line, and hope that the charities had diapers that day,"

Beggars can't be choosers.
 
2014-06-18 12:09:13 PM  

JoieD'Zen: monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???

Sh*t happens and sometimes you have to ask for help. That said, people getting benefits should have mandatory birthcontrol.


Yes. shiat happens. Like I accidentally tripped, slipped, and my penis entered her vagina. Repeatedly.
 
2014-06-18 12:10:08 PM  
There's a simple solution. Remove the cap on welfare. Make signing up for welfare contingent on undergoing a reversible sterilization procedure. Two years after the last welfare payment, the mother is eligible to have children again.
 
2014-06-18 12:10:10 PM  

monoski: JoieD'Zen: monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???

Sh*t happens and sometimes you have to ask for help. That said, people getting benefits should have mandatory birthcontrol.

Yes, sh*t does happen but not in this case. She specifically stated they decided to have children. I actually do feel a social safety net needs to be in place but I don't like the idea of people jumping into it as opposed to falling into it.



I guess that is the problem.  How many people legitimately falling are we willing to see go splat just to make sure that the jumpers splatter as well?  I'm a selfish bastard.  So the number is much much higher for me.  But those who profess to have a conscience may struggle with this.
 
2014-06-18 12:10:14 PM  
The most racist thing of all is to be white and alive at the same time
 
2014-06-18 12:11:01 PM  
You know, this may be a stupid racist law but I can see an upside if you apply it only to celebrity families and political dynasties.

What do you say? Should we bust a family cap on the Kardashians, the Baldwins, the Osbournes, the Bushes, the Kennedys, the Barrymores, the Hiltons, the Osmonds, etc.? (Not to mention the Clown Car families who are minor celebrities solely because they drop litters like rabbits.)

We have reached a point where great social change will come because people are no longer breeding at replacement rates in many rich liberal democracies. One way to fix this is the liberal way:  education, family services, welfare, baby bonuses, health care, child care, freedom and liberty and all good things like that.

The other way is fasco-conservative: discourage everybody from breeding except conservative white christian polygamist shiats who are willing to excommunicate their own sons and nephews in order to bogart the women.

What do you say people? The question, as Nietzsche put it, is what kind of people there are to be:  sad celebrity seeking attention whores and patriarchal madmen, or normal human beings with large loving families and the best care that they and their governments can give their children.
 
2014-06-18 12:11:03 PM  
So, this problem is caused by straight people.  Yet, gay people still can't adopt and help solve the issue?  I know this is a bit off topic, but people are stupid.
 
2014-06-18 12:13:03 PM  

brantgoose: You know, this may be a stupid racist law but I can see an upside if you apply it only to celebrity families and political dynasties.

What do you say? Should we bust a family cap on the Kardashians, the Baldwins, the Osbournes, the Bushes, the Kennedys, the Barrymores, the Hiltons, the Osmonds, etc.? (Not to mention the Clown Car families who are minor celebrities solely because they drop litters like rabbits.)

We have reached a point where great social change will come because people are no longer breeding at replacement rates in many rich liberal democracies. One way to fix this is the liberal way:  education, family services, welfare, baby bonuses, health care, child care, freedom and liberty and all good things like that.

The other way is fasco-conservative: discourage everybody from breeding except conservative white christian polygamist shiats who are willing to excommunicate their own sons and nephews in order to bogart the women.

What do you say people? The question, as Nietzsche put it, is what kind of people there are to be:  sad celebrity seeking attention whores and patriarchal madmen, or normal human beings with large loving families and the best care that they and their governments can give their children.


Shhhh. Hush now. Take your meds. It will all be OK.
 
2014-06-18 12:13:09 PM  
I am not on government assistance. I work full time and so does my spouse. When we started to decide on children, finances was a big part. Can we afford it? How many can we afford? Who's going to work and who will stay home?

Why should people on government assistance not feel like they should have to think of the same things? If my budget dictates the size of my family, so should theirs.
 
2014-06-18 12:13:20 PM  

Devil's Playground: FTA: "I had to go to charities, wait in line, and hope that the charities had diapers that day,"

Beggars can't be choosers.


Or poopers, apparently.  "Oh, I'm sorry no diapers today, I'm sure you'll manage".
 
2014-06-18 12:13:35 PM  

monoski: JoieD'Zen: monoski: "When we first had the twins, the only person in my family getting aid was my oldest son," she said. "We didn't have money to buy them car seats to get home [from the hospital]. ...We didn't have money to pay for diapers, wipes, shampoos, and toiletries. ... I am here to tell you that I am trying my best to be a great mom. I do not need to be punished for deciding to have children."

Decided to have kids that she could not afford and wonders why people have a problem with this. WTF???

Sh*t happens and sometimes you have to ask for help. That said, people getting benefits should have mandatory birthcontrol.

Yes, sh*t does happen but not in this case. She specifically stated they decided to have children. I actually do feel a social safety net needs to be in place but I don't like the idea of people jumping into it as opposed to falling into it.


And that's a large problem with the culture in this country. People have no concept of personal responsibility and just push the responsibility on to someone else without a second thought. There need to be parenting laws.
 
2014-06-18 12:13:42 PM  
I've always been a fan of government run boarding schools out in the countryside. Kids get fed and taken care of properly, educated properly, protected from drugs, street crime, etc. Taxpayers win because it's far cheaper and more efficient per kid than just giving the money directly to the mothers, who piss it away on drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. (yes, EBT card fraud is widespread), feed the kids crap, don't get them to school, and when they get to school it's a violent hellhole....

The taxpayers money will go to giving these kids a real chance at making it in life. Safe, secure, environment,  good socialization, etc. It's doesn't have to be Dickensian nightmare. Done right, it could be more like Hogwarts. The nasty kids will be sent to Slitheren (labor camps) to learn the value of playing nice with others...
 
2014-06-18 12:14:42 PM  
don't have kids you can't afford and don't expect everyone else to pay to raise your kids. Simple

This whole it punishes the kid BS needs to stop. Their irresponsible parent is who is to blame. This isn't even a hey you messed up ok here is some help. This is you are on the govt teet for 10 months prior and you have another kid, which to put it simply means that these people were on assistance for the other kid for over a month before getting preggers again.

Heres the thing. having sex isn't a right. You are poor and cannot afford to care for your kid/s either stop having sex, take it in the butt or gamble with contraception. Those are your choices. having children isn't a right it is a choice.

Its always the people who shouldn't be having kids popping them out like rabbits while the smart folks get screwed for being responsible people.
 
2014-06-18 12:15:01 PM  

generallyso: Wellon Dowd: As a super liberal I say, if only there were safe, effective methods of keeping from becoming pregnant with children your can't afford to care for we could avoid this heartache.

Most methods of birth control have a failure rate of at least 9 in 100. Expand that to a sexually active female population of 100 million or so and you have a lot of unintended pregnancies despite usage of birth control. In fact, 49% of all pregnancies are unintended.


Yeah, even with a 9% failure rate of contraceptives, I guarantee that if ever every woman had convenient access to birth control, the unintended pregnancy rate would plummet from its current 49%.  And, if we as a society try to ensure that young girls are given the same education opportunities of young boys, studies show that rate plummets even further.  Basically, the number drops to well within tolerances that abortions and adoptions could probably handle the rest.
 
KIA
2014-06-18 12:16:16 PM  
Once again both political parties insist that they are in favor of more and better education but neither one actually delivers.
 
2014-06-18 12:20:41 PM  
Because, as Wal-Mart proves every day...

There is no limit on how big a white family can get:

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-06-18 12:20:53 PM  

Wellon Dowd: As a super liberal I say, if only there were safe, effective methods of keeping from becoming pregnant with children your can't afford to care for we could avoid this heartache.


I believe the conservative philosophy is that life begins at conception and ends at birth.
 
2014-06-18 12:21:14 PM  
Lot of people biatching who didn't actually read the article.

I know it's Fark, but maybe some of you twits could at least try not to look so bloody stupid.
 
2014-06-18 12:21:15 PM  

Headso: Ortiz was referring to the Maximum Family Grant rule, a provision of CalWORKs that denies assistance to new children in families that received benefits 10 months before the child's birth.

Does sound pretty idiotic, these people have kids and the answer is to punish the infant by making sure they won't get access to proper nutrition or diapers because that won't cause more expensive problems in the future. If it is penny wise and pound foolish it's fiscal conservatism.


I don't know about nutrition but none of the people pictured in the article were wanting for food.
 
2014-06-18 12:21:48 PM  

Active introvert: I am not on government assistance. I work full time and so does my spouse. When we started to decide on children, finances was a big part. Can we afford it? How many can we afford? Who's going to work and who will stay home?

Why should people on government assistance not feel like they should have to think of the same things? If my budget dictates the size of my family, so should theirs.


THIS
 
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