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(El Paso Times)   El Paso police officer caught on video shooting a handcuffed prisoner, and to nobody's surprise, gets away with it   (elpasotimes.com) divider line 132
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8295 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2014 at 2:32 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 01:31:42 PM
There are islands all over the world, but they are not necessarily created by the same geological forces or at the same time.  Therefore, the existence of a multitude of islands does not imply association or any causal relationship between the many specks of land present in the world's oceans.  Relative to each other they are, in fact, isloalted.

Incidents in society share many parallels to this example.  The mere repetition of similar narratives acrass a disparate set of circumstances and locations does not necessarily imply a relationship.  Therefore, these incidents are isolated.
 
2014-06-18 01:55:07 PM

doyner: islands all over the world, but they are not necessarily created by the same geological forces or at the same time


cdn.memegenerator.net
 
2014-06-18 02:35:50 PM
Sheesh, he only shot the unarmed guy once. It's not like he emptied the clip into him. Some people just like complaining.
 
2014-06-18 02:36:41 PM
It's ok, he thought the victim was a deer.
 
2014-06-18 02:37:04 PM
extras.mnginteractive.com

Nice, they got the muzzle flash and everything.
 
2014-06-18 02:37:09 PM

doyner: There are islands all over the world, but they are not necessarily created by the same geological forces or at the same time.  Therefore, the existence of a multitude of islands does not imply association or any causal relationship between the many specks of land present in the world's oceans.  Relative to each other they are, in fact, isloalted.

Incidents in society share many parallels to this example.  The mere repetition of similar narratives acrass a disparate set of circumstances and locations does not necessarily imply a relationship.  Therefore, these incidents are isolated.


The specific reasons why any particular island forms may vary, but if it wasn't for the Earth's surface being covered with a preponderance of water, there would be no islands.
 
2014-06-18 02:38:12 PM
So multiple cops had a HANCUFFED suspect face down on the ground and they STILL got so scared and panicked that they shot him?!?!?

Maybe if you are a raging pussy you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.
 
2014-06-18 02:38:34 PM
Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.
 
2014-06-18 02:38:46 PM
I bet that LEO's wife is pissed off because her old man never got in trouble for shooting too quick in bed.
 
2014-06-18 02:39:46 PM
Flores was the El Paso police officer who in January 2013 after buying a pair of boots and a package of socks for a homeless man outside the Lowe's Home Improvement store at 12100 Montana.

Sigh.
 
2014-06-18 02:39:56 PM
from the looks of it, the cop just lost his shiat and blew his chest away.

wow.  the guy was in cuffs...why didn't they just walk away a few feet and laugh at him?
 
2014-06-18 02:40:19 PM
Is there any reason not to hate all cops?
 
2014-06-18 02:40:23 PM

foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.


I must still be reading the article then. I didn't find it.
 
2014-06-18 02:40:41 PM

stir22: from the looks of it, the cop just lost his shiat and blew his chest away.

wow.  the guy was in cuffs...why didn't they just walk away a few feet and laugh at him?


read the whole article.
 
2014-06-18 02:41:10 PM

SpectroBoy: So multiple cops had a HANCUFFED suspect face down on the ground and they STILL got so scared and panicked that they shot him?!?!?

Maybe if you are a raging pussy you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.


'Roid raging pussy
 
2014-06-18 02:41:26 PM

SpectroBoy: Maybe if you are a raging pussy you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.


Only raging pussies become cops.
 
2014-06-18 02:42:43 PM
With the conclusion of the criminal investigation by the Texas Rangers and El Paso Police Department,   argued that the video should be withheld for several other reasons, including the right to privacy of the deceased, a potential lawsuit against the city by Saenz's family and that releasing the video could endanger the life of the officer involved in the shooting.


It's almost like people get upset when police murder handcuffed prisoners or something.
 
2014-06-18 02:43:08 PM

SpectroBoy: So multiple cops had a HANCUFFED suspect face down on the ground and they STILL got so scared and panicked that they shot him?!?!?

Maybe if you are a raging pussy you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.


Agreed.
 
2014-06-18 02:44:53 PM
When I was driving through El Paso
That's when my truck ran out of gas-o
I fought a man to get that gas-o
That was driving through El Paso
 
2014-06-18 02:45:04 PM

foo monkey: stir22: from the looks of it, the cop just lost his shiat and blew his chest away.

wow.  the guy was in cuffs...why didn't they just walk away a few feet and laugh at him?

read the whole article.


You mean the part where they blame the civilian guy for the cop's gun going off?
 
2014-06-18 02:46:51 PM

redmid17: foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.

I must still be reading the article then. I didn't find it.


Neither did I.  TFA states "At the same moment Officer Flores draws his weapon, Mr. Saenz pushes off on that curb and, with remarkable strength, sends the civilian escort flying backwards. The civilian escort's arm then hits the trigger hand of Officer Flores, causing his weapon to discharge.", but the image is pretty clearly a man NOT being jostled.
 
2014-06-18 02:47:16 PM
Hardcore lib here.  As far as it is within legality for officers to shoot anyone, I think he was justified.  It appeared the arrested guy was ridiculously strong and fast, and posed a serious threat to the officer.

That said, I don't think anyone should have guns, police or not... and certainly shouldn't be discharging them for any reason ever... but it appeared a taser did nothing to this guy.  What they should have done was gotten some horse trancs...
 
2014-06-18 02:47:52 PM

foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.


Yeah, my outrage rapidly diminished after reading the article. If anything was done wrong it was that only two people were guarding the combative roided-up prisoner that tasers didn't work on.
 
2014-06-18 02:48:45 PM

foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.


Because they know most people won't finish reading it.  That way, they can further the "OMG, cops are the  worst!" stereotype while still being able to say, "See, we didn't do a hatchet job - we told the whole story."
 
2014-06-18 02:49:19 PM
I'm the first one to pile on the cops in any cop hate thread, but this shooting sounds perfectly justified to me.
 
2014-06-18 02:50:58 PM
So, despite the prisoner being unarmed, handcuffed, on the ground, and outnumbered two to one, the officer felt so threatened that he had no choice but to deliberately choose not to use his taser and instead shoot the prisoner and then sit on his body as he bled to death.

Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.
 
2014-06-18 02:54:02 PM

Weidbrewer: foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.

Because they know most people won't finish reading it.  That way, they can further the "OMG, cops are the  worst!" stereotype while still being able to say, "See, we didn't do a hatchet job - we told the whole story."


Remind you of anyplace people voice their opinions?
 
2014-06-18 02:54:24 PM
foo monkey: stir22: from the looks of it, the cop just lost his shiat and blew his chest away.

wow.  the guy was in cuffs...why didn't they just walk away a few feet and laugh at him?

read the whole article.


i did.  even if he fronted the cuffs......c'mon.  putting a bullet into him from a foot away?
 
2014-06-18 02:54:25 PM

Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.


Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse
 
2014-06-18 02:55:10 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I'm the first one to pile on the cops in any cop hate thread, but this shooting sounds perfectly justified to me.


Disagree.  They had 2 pussies transfer a body builder. If there was any concern that the guy was strong and fast enough to move his handcuffed hands to in front of him, they should have had 3 or 4 cops transfer him instead of these 2 weaklings.

They didn't have to kill this guy, and of course, that cop killed him and walks away without any consequence.
 
2014-06-18 02:55:31 PM

Emposter: So, despite the prisoner being unarmed, handcuffed, on the ground, and outnumbered two to one, the officer felt so threatened that he had no choice but to deliberately choose not to use his taser and instead shoot the prisoner and then sit on his body as he bled to death.

Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.


I'd normally feel the same way, but then I read the article.

Guy had been tasered 5 times with no effect. Had previously shown his ability in fronting his cuffs and is a known competitive body builder.
 
2014-06-18 02:55:44 PM
A nice dose of Haldol and Versed would have gone a long way in this case.
 
2014-06-18 02:56:48 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I'm the first one to pile on the cops in any cop hate thread, but this shooting sounds perfectly justified to me.


It's ok. Sometimes you wake up with shiat in your ears and realize that you're out of q-tips. Happens to the best of us.
 
2014-06-18 02:57:11 PM

Krieghund: foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.

Yeah, my outrage rapidly diminished after reading the article. If anything was done wrong it was that only two people were guarding the combative roided-up prisoner that tasers didn't work on.


What was he het up about? I notice no one's talking about that. Did he - at all of 5'8 - bump his own head into the ceiling, or did someone help out? Was he concussed, or bleeding into his own eyes (unable to wipe them)? Was he being manhandled by these peace officers, or merely "perp-walked"? Had he been fed in the previous 10 hours? Had a bathroom break in the last 4? Was he needing any medications?

Or did the roid-raging Taserproof short-enough-to-smack-his-head-on-the-ceiling bodybuilding Houdini just snap and go Rube-Goldberg-suicide by cop?

// I'm a fairly big guy (6'4, 260), and they often only had one cop with me during my one arrest
// a short (but stocky) woman put me in leg irons to get me to process out - walked me alone through the December cold (IIRC, 20-30 degrees with cold winds that night - wind-chill in the single-digits) in my T-shirt
 
2014-06-18 02:57:12 PM

Weidbrewer: Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse


"Difficult to restrain" doesn't allow for summary execution. If it was known that he was as big a problem as is alleged, why was there only one officer transporting him?
 
2014-06-18 02:57:42 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I'm the first one to pile on the cops in any cop hate thread, but this shooting sounds perfectly justified to me.


Yeah, nobody's getting to the bottom of the article and noting how the guy proved he can get pretty much out of the cuffs with ease, was extremely strong, was on one of the components of bath salts thus allowing him to shake off five - FIVE - rounds of Tasering, and had just shoved the civilian (so one cop, one civvy) hard enough that it bumped the cop's gun hand, possibly triggering the shot.
 
2014-06-18 02:57:59 PM
It's very easy to tell who has and who hasn't read the TFA, isn't it?
 
2014-06-18 03:00:09 PM

Weidbrewer: Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse


In this case, however, he did not do so.
 
2014-06-18 03:00:28 PM

HotWingConspiracy: "Difficult to restrain" doesn't allow for summary execution. If it was known that he was as big a problem as is alleged, why was there only one officer transporting him?


That's a separate issue.  Should they have asked for more backup?  Probably.  Maybe they did, but their bosses said, "Nope, you two are all we've got, get it done."  We don't know.  You wanna biatch about what  caused the situation, I'm right there with you.  I'm sure it's a combination of complacency and official policy/budgeting.

However they got there, a situation arose where they were in danger from this guy, handcuffed or not, and a difficult decision was made.
 
2014-06-18 03:00:37 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Weidbrewer: Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse

"Difficult to restrain" doesn't allow for summary execution. If it was known that he was as big a problem as is alleged, why was there only one officer transporting him?


Here's what I don't get.. The guy was strong and fast, and was struggling .. that makes it ok to kill him?

He was still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.  Did he have his hands in front at the time of the shooting?
 
2014-06-18 03:00:59 PM

Five Tails of Fury: Marcus Aurelius: I'm the first one to pile on the cops in any cop hate thread, but this shooting sounds perfectly justified to me.

Yeah, nobody's getting to the bottom of the article and noting how the guy proved he can get pretty much out of the cuffs with ease, was extremely strong, was on one of the components of bath salts thus allowing him to shake off five - FIVE - rounds of Tasering, and had just shoved the civilian (so one cop, one civvy) hard enough that it bumped the cop's gun hand, possibly triggering the shot.


The cop wouldn't have had his gun out if he wasn't planning on shooting him. He doesn't get to blame the other guy.
 
2014-06-18 03:02:33 PM

SpectroBoy: So multiple cops had a HANCUFFED suspect face down on the ground and they STILL got so scared and panicked that they shot him?!?!?

Maybe if you are a raging pussy you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.


Maybe people who didn't read the article shouldn't post comments. Just saying.
 
2014-06-18 03:04:06 PM

Dr Dreidel: Krieghund: foo monkey: Well-written article, but they took a long time to get to the point where the officer was justified.

Yeah, my outrage rapidly diminished after reading the article. If anything was done wrong it was that only two people were guarding the combative roided-up prisoner that tasers didn't work on.

What was he het up about? I notice no one's talking about that. Did he - at all of 5'8 - bump his own head into the ceiling, or did someone help out? Was he concussed, or bleeding into his own eyes (unable to wipe them)? Was he being manhandled by these peace officers, or merely "perp-walked"? Had he been fed in the previous 10 hours? Had a bathroom break in the last 4? Was he needing any medications?

Or did the roid-raging Taserproof short-enough-to-smack-his-head-on-the-ceiling bodybuilding Houdini just snap and go Rube-Goldberg-suicide by cop?

// I'm a fairly big guy (6'4, 260), and they often only had one cop with me during my one arrest
// a short (but stocky) woman put me in leg irons to get me to process out - walked me alone through the December cold (IIRC, 20-30 degrees with cold winds that night - wind-chill in the single-digits) in my T-shirt


had you been combative, that would not have been the case.
 
2014-06-18 03:04:09 PM

AeAe: HotWingConspiracy: Weidbrewer: Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse

"Difficult to restrain" doesn't allow for summary execution. If it was known that he was as big a problem as is alleged, why was there only one officer transporting him?

Here's what I don't get.. The guy was strong and fast, and was struggling .. that makes it ok to kill him?

He was still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.  Did he have his hands in front at the time of the shooting?


Heck, I'd almost be happy if he was standing up at the time of the shooting.  When the gun went bang, he was on his butt.  Handcuffed.  With his hands behind his back.
 
2014-06-18 03:04:59 PM
blogs.browardpalmbeach.com
 
2014-06-18 03:05:05 PM
There's an ex BART Transit Cop just kicking himself right now...
 
2014-06-18 03:06:21 PM

AeAe: HotWingConspiracy: Weidbrewer: Emposter: Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

Well, there was the whole part of him already having been tased 5 times earlier without effect and the fact that he could get his cuffed hands in front of him quickly and easily....but you go right on being angry on your high horse

"Difficult to restrain" doesn't allow for summary execution. If it was known that he was as big a problem as is alleged, why was there only one officer transporting him?

Here's what I don't get.. The guy was strong and fast, and was struggling .. that makes it ok to kill him?

He was still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.  Did he have his hands in front at the time of the shooting?


I was going to respond, but apparently it's been covered.  Kudos fellas.
 
2014-06-18 03:07:02 PM

Dinobot: Emposter: So, despite the prisoner being unarmed, handcuffed, on the ground, and outnumbered two to one, the officer felt so threatened that he had no choice but to deliberately choose not to use his taser and instead shoot the prisoner and then sit on his body as he bled to death.

Yeah, completely justified.  No doubt.

I'd normally feel the same way, but then I read the article.

Guy had been tasered 5 times with no effect. Had previously shown his ability in fronting his cuffs and is a known competitive body builder.



You know what the video doesn't show? It doesn't show him fronting the cuffs. It also doesn't show him having some sort of superhuman resistance to tazers. I also highly doubt the guy was roiding, you know, being in prison and all.  Those are the excuses being used by the people who shot the guy.

You know what the video does show? It shows a cop murdering an unarmed man who is sitting with his hands cuffed behind his back.
 
2014-06-18 03:08:39 PM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-06-18 03:11:51 PM
Well after reading the article, the police officer was seemingly in the right. This big body builder dude manages to "front his cuffs," making him capable of grabbing a weapon and killing the officer. Plus, in the heat of the struggle, the officer maybe meant to grab his taser but got to the gun first and decided to use it. Also, better the officer got his gun and used it before the criminal was able to get it after fronting his cuffs and causing struggle. The asshole criminal should have sat down, shut up, and did what he was told and this wouldn't have happened. From the headline, It almost seemed like a cop just non chalantly shot a guy in cuffs for no reason, but after reading it i can see where the cop was in the right. Plus if this guy was indeed a bodybuilder, there's a chance a taser wouldn't stop him completely anyway, so another good reason not to risk it and go for the gun. In this case, better a dead criminal than a potentially dead cop.
 
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