If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Till Death Do Us Part' used to have something to do with marriage and a partner, these days in America it now has to do with you and your job   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 70
    More: Sad, pension plans, fixed costs  
•       •       •

9015 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2014 at 2:43 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-06-18 08:14:20 AM  
4 votes:

evilmrsock: Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.


I have been self-employed for 30 years.  I pay my quarterly estimated taxes.  My wife has been self-employed for over 20 years.  We pay her estimated taxes as well.  She has 2 different businesses, I have a consulting practice, a working farm, and I do wood-working and high end, custom furniture as a profitable hobby.  I have been doing all of my own taxes since before there was a Turbo-tax.  I've been audited by the IRS twice and both times, I came out clean as a whistle.  I am above average intelligence but I am not an accountant, let alone a CPA.

Within the township in which I reside, there are a half-dozen dairy farmers I know who either they or their wives pay employees, calculate taxes not only for themselves but the withholding for employees,  Not a CPA or tax lawyer in the bunch.  I know dozens of builders, plumbers, excavators, electricians, mechanics, painters, restaurant owners, and even other consultants.  All of them are self-employed.  A smaller percentage of them use the services of an accounting firm than the percentage of those who do their own books, taxes, payroll, etc.

No doubt that the tax code is intimidatingly complex - whether or not intentionally so I leave to another discussion.  But all of those self-employed folks, many armed with only a High School diploma, manage to wade through it. You perhaps don't give your fellow citizens enough credit.

I also know dozens of people who work in factories and offices.  They complain about taxes sometimes while waiting for their refund.  The self-employed get livid when quarterly estimated taxes are due.  The government knows this.  It's why it wants to have as many people as possible working in jobs where there is withholding and why it does very little to encourage small businesses (flowery rhetoric to the contrary notwithstanding).  If there is to be a true tax revolt in this country, make every wage earner sit down 4 times a year to pay estimated taxes and then spend a couple days early the next year figuring out if you guessed right.  As long as there is withholding and the majority of people "get a refund!!!!!  Whoopeee!!!"  government will not be accountable for how it spends our money.  That is the immorality of it.
2014-06-18 07:25:39 AM  
4 votes:

dragonchild: Of course it's a tax. Have you ever seen a W2 form? If you've ever worked for a living, you've received one. It says right there on the form, "Social Security Tax". Something is a sham because it works exactly as advertised? Where did you think SS income comes from, a magical piggy bank in the clouds full of rainbows and dreams?


Actually, the W-2 says FICA but that's splitting hairs.  Here's the dirty little secret.  Employers don't pay for anything that the employee doesn't earn.  No matter what kind of fringe benefits a company pays for, it does so only on the basis of what the employees are productive enough for the company to charge its customers for.  That health insurance policy that your company "pays" for?  You earned it.  That "paid" vacation?  You earned it.  Matching FICA?  you earned it  FMLA?  you earned it.  Company car?  You guessed it; you earned it.  The thing about all the fringe benefits and pensions and everything else the company supposedly pays for is that you earned it but you have little voice in how those earnings are spent.

The same is true with government spending on your behalf.  Government has no wealth of its own.  It only has what it collects through taxes and fees.  Guess who earns those taxes.  If you guessed the working class, you win the prize.  Social Security confiscates 15% of the productivity of the working class, squanders it in any way whichever government happens to be controlling the purse strings this election cycle, and then decides how much it wishes, in its magnanimous beneficence, to trickle back out to those who earned it.

Capitalists operate on margins.  The fact that companies have gotten so big is why those margins add up to so much money.  Another serious problem in our economy is that bankers and various Treasury Secretaries and Fed chairman (but then, that's a whole string of redundancy, isn't it?) have convinced us that cash is a commodity in and of itself and that has only served to take more wealth out of the hands of the middle class and remove any security in middle class investments at the same time.  Those of us who lived through the radical inflation of the 60s and 70s remember how many seniors' life savings were rendered virtually worthless.  If you owned real property and equities, however, you were spared many of the ravages of inflation.

In my opinion, the middle class would be a lot better off if businesses were required to give employees all of their earnings and then allow/require them to make the choice of how those earnings are spent/invested/frittered.  It is my opinion that withholding taxes are immoral.  The government confiscates a significant portion of your earnings before you ever see it.  Understand that I am not against paying taxes.  Taxes are necessary in order for the government to fulfill its functions.  But citizens should be required to sit down and write that check out of their earnings.  Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

We have moved a very long way from the laborer being considered worthy of his hire and getting his due.  Too many years of believing the hucksters - both from the private sector and government - that we are incapable of managing our affairs.  So, just like parents manage the money of their minor children "for their own good" so our "betters" manage our affairs for us.

To date, I am disappointed with their management.  I don't see a great turnaround in the near future.
2014-06-18 04:48:20 AM  
4 votes:

xria: twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?

Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?


I realize you tried to sound really smart but you failed.  No one is saying that seniors retiring is the ONLY way new jobs come into being, but the fact of the matter is if a seniors didn't have to to those jobs, they likely wouldn't take those jobs and those jobs would have gone to someone younger.  But seniors are holding off on retirement and the jobs that might otherwise have had to be filled by someone younger are remaining in the hands of seniors.

So because seniors are, in great numbers, unable to retire, younger people have fewer jobs available for them.

Does that help clarify things?
2014-06-18 03:47:44 AM  
4 votes:

robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.


You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.
2014-06-18 03:08:18 AM  
4 votes:
radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...
2014-06-18 03:06:48 AM  
4 votes:
Why 'I'll just work longer' is not a good retirement plan


Whether or not it's a good plan is irrelevant if it's the only plan available.
2014-06-18 03:17:43 PM  
3 votes:
Back in the 60s, they thought that everybody in the future would work only 20 hours a week, because the machines would do everything. Instead, CEOs saw this as an opportunity to have one guy do the work of two, and pay him less than he made before, because "the machines do all the work."

I'm amazed that unemployment is as low as it is.
2014-06-18 06:17:43 AM  
3 votes:

Animatronik: Social Security is a sham. The money they take for SS from your check is not enough to pay current retirees, no money is saved for you. It's a tax.

Of course it's a tax.  Have you ever seen a W2 form?  If you've ever worked for a living, you've received one.  It says right there on the form, "Social Security Tax".  Something is a sham because it works exactly as advertised?  Where did you think SS income comes from, a magical piggy bank in the clouds full of rainbows and dreams?
2014-06-18 01:39:56 AM  
3 votes:
37.media.tumblr.com
2014-06-18 11:22:33 AM  
2 votes:

Ambivalence: Maturin: I figure I'll die in the saddle. Which is okay because I like my job and there is a chronic shortage of pediatricians. That and frankly, I don't ever see how I will be able to afford not to work.

How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?


Well, for starters physicians get a later start at earning than most other professions, and we end up with more debt. I have many classmates who were out earning a living and gaining seniority in their jobs while I was still getting an education. Also, while physicians can earn a lot, pediatricians are at the bottom of the pile. We don't have many procedures which are well paying, and usually have a large number of medicare patients. I have chosen to practice in underserved communities, so for several years of my career I have been paid as well as an experienced teacher. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I do a lot better than many people who work harder than I do.

Probably the biggest difficulty people have in preparing for retirement is to live below your means (which we have not done well). You get used to a certain type of house, a better brand of coffee, buying the books you want, driving a decent car, and it is hard to change those habits. It makes it difficult to plan for retirement without having a few 'extras.' That and what seemed like a luxury once becomes a necessity. Take the cellphone. My children, all in their 20's, can not imagine living without one. Personally, I could do that, but don't take away my internet.

As an added difficulty, as mentioned in TFA, I can't expect to kick off at 75. My father is 91, and while he won't buy an unripe banana, he still seems to be hanging on. If I were to retire at 65, living 25 years on retirement, accumulated assets, and social security looks very precarious.

So bottom line, right now I have four people and a dog who depend on me to bring home the bacon, and likely will need some level of support for some time. I am obscenely close to 60 but feel pretty good, and only some minor health problems that won't likely explode on me for a couple of decades. Work is still fun, and I think I would get bored without someplace to go every morning.
2014-06-18 10:59:46 AM  
2 votes:
"We have been married 46 years and my wife has been primarily a stay-at-home mom" of six children.

Six crotch fruit on a single income and they wonder why they don't have money to retire on?  This guy wont be able to stop working till 3 years after he dies.
2014-06-18 10:38:46 AM  
2 votes:
As an automation engineer, I always get a kick out of these threads.  I work primarily in medical device manufacturing, so if I do my job correctly, thousands of jobs are lost to automation, those jobs that remain can have lower skilled employees, so wages decrease, and hundreds of thousands of lives are saved, so population growth steadily increases.

I support a universal living wage.  It always amuses me to watch people try to argue that job creation and wages can even remotely keep up with population growth.
2014-06-18 09:43:59 AM  
2 votes:

WTFDYW: There are plenty of good paying jobs out there in the trades. Companies are begging for skilled tradespeople across most of the nation. But then again, the people with the arts degree and English degree would have to train for awhile in the given trade (welding, plumbing, HVAC, masonry etc.) and be willing to get sore muscles and dirty hands. Ain't gonna happen for the most part.


As someone who dug ditches to pay for their 'liberal arts' degree, DIAF. As someone who works with guys who have to have back surgery before they hit 30, FU. The reason most of us went to school is so we didn't have to continue doing labor. The idea was that we were suppose to be managing the guys who were doing the labor, but in an unhealthy economy companies don't have the funds to train people, so they want those with experience whom they can hire at substandard wages as there is a glut of overqualified people.

Besides, having too many people in the trades diminishes the value of the trade. If everyone is a plumber, no one needs a plumber. A functioning economy needs a diversity of skills and mindsets or we don't have an economy. Also avoids group think, cause that's never a good thing.

Anyway, the simplest solution to the problem is to find a way to get money into the hands of the lower class, and it will trickle up by the end of the day, changing hands several times over, which will in turn create demand and jobs.

Or we can start hunting plutocrats and oligarchs for sport. I'm game either way.
2014-06-18 08:05:29 AM  
2 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: TommyymmoT: Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore, and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".

The youngest person who could have voted for Uncle Ron in 1980 is 51 right now. The idea of corporate worship falls squarely on the older generation.

If only there was a greater union presence and a strong social safety net...


This, too. Most of the problems that are preventing a lot if Boomers from retiring were caused by policies they voted for. What they really meant by "trickle down" is that the wealthy would be pissing on the rest of us. Urine trickles down. Capital has always flowed up.
2014-06-18 07:53:14 AM  
2 votes:

Ambivalence: How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?


No matter how much you make, it's easy to live above your means.
2014-06-18 07:47:55 AM  
2 votes:

TommyymmoT: Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore, and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".


The youngest person who could have voted for Uncle Ron in 1980 is 51 right now. The idea of corporate worship falls squarely on the older generation.

If only there was a greater union presence and a strong social safety net...
2014-06-18 07:20:35 AM  
2 votes:

Animatronik: some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.



No it is not communism. Communism on its very basis was that everybody must have the same.  The scientist was paid the same as the janitor.  A basic income is that everybody is given a basic amount of money each week no matter what and on top of that they can work in careers own property just like they do today at different pay scales.

Communism stifled innovation,  drive.   Basic income does not but does make sure people are not driven to work in jobs out of fear of starving or not being able to live anywhere.
2014-06-18 05:35:00 AM  
2 votes:

twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.


"And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.
2014-06-18 05:03:02 AM  
2 votes:

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


You might as well.
After 16 years of school to prepare you, and 45 years of work, you are no longer of any use to the plutocracy.

So enjoy that year off, and kill yourself for the benefit of the republic like the good little prole that you were trained since birth to be.
2014-06-18 05:01:21 AM  
2 votes:

xria: twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?

Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?


You really need to learn how to only read what someone types. Nice straw man, though.

It is a fact that we will eventually come to a point where we have a Malthusian crisis in the workforce because of things like automation, offshoring, and possibly old people not retiring. What do we, as a society, do at that point? Tell the unfortunate bastards who couldn't find a job that pays a living wage to sod off and die? Do you think that they will gladly comply with such a request? We need to start coming up with an answer to this question now so that we can avoid the massive social upheaval that comes from an impoverished class growing ever faster.
2014-06-18 04:15:10 AM  
2 votes:

twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.


================

Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore,  and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".
2014-06-18 02:59:20 AM  
2 votes:

DanZero: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x382]

3.bp.blogspot.com
2014-06-18 02:45:34 AM  
2 votes:
Yeah, which means that there aren't any openings for new grads, which means there's no one to buy your assets, which means you can't retire.
2014-06-18 07:45:53 PM  
1 votes:
I hope to retire at about 65 but if I can't, I'll keep working. It all depends on the economic climate at that time.

/i'm going on 52
2014-06-18 07:12:30 PM  
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: We'll achieve it without replicators or fission. I don't think money will disappear in the foreseeable future, but the way we think about it is going to change as surpluses are used to provide a reasonable standard of living to everyone. We already make enough food to feed the world, it's only a matter of getting it to those in need.


And kill those who stand in the way. I'm dead. farking. serious. You want to harm others with your power, your life is forfeit.

HempHead: There are letters to Adam Smith from business owners complaining the serfs would not come work in their factories for the starvation wages being offered, preferring to stay at home idle and raising crops and livestock with the occasional hunting trip.


I would hardly call being agrarian "idle." They simply picked a more profitable position. Wasn't that bullshiat a big contributor to the establishment of the minimum wage?
2014-06-18 05:13:24 PM  
1 votes:

sufferpuppet: The crew of the Enterprise all had jobs to do. Nobody in that universe was handing out free starships so you could roam the galaxy for the sexing or shooting of alien babes. They all had to earn their keep on the ship. You want something in life you're probably gonna have to work for it.


But, the point is that if no one needs to work (because they can survive by not doing so), most people will still choose to do so anyway, even if they're not getting paid for it (because there's no need to be paid, because nothing costs money anymore), just because they enjoy doing whatever it is, and would be bored out of their skulls sitting at home doing nothing but surviving all day... No one was paying Picard and crew to go explore; they wanted to do that! Not only does it benefit them (by giving them something enjoyable to spend their time doing), but it benefits their society as a whole (by obtaining information about other planets and civilizations, protection from threats, forming alliences, etc.)... If no one is forced to work some miserable menial job that they hate just in order to survive, most will instead find something to do with their time that they actually enjoy, and usually that will end up having a more positive effect on society than the drudgework would have had...

At least, that's the theory Roddenberry was going with, anyway... I still think it'll take a replicator type device and a limitless free source of energy before we ever get there in reality... But, at that point, it's pretty much inevitable, I would think... If you can make literally anything for free, what's to keep you working your shiatty drudgework job?
2014-06-18 04:53:12 PM  
1 votes:

bingethinker: Back in the 60s, they thought that everybody in the future would work only 20 hours a week, because the machines would do everything. Instead, CEOs saw this as an opportunity to have one guy do the work of two, and pay him less than he made before, because "the machines do all the work."

I'm amazed that unemployment is as low as it is.


So in one sentence, the prediction of the 60s didn't happen because the 80s happened.
2014-06-18 01:13:58 PM  
1 votes:

thornhill: There are lots of problems with 401ks that have nothing to do with how much money you put into them:


Yes, but the article is claiming that 401ks are a scam based on people not contributing to them.
2014-06-18 12:54:05 PM  
1 votes:

chasd00: Mr Right is right.

It bothers me that my friends celebrate their refund like it's some sort of gift or surprise. When my wife and I were in the financial position of getting a refund we setup our taxes so that it was as close to zero as possible and actually preferred to owe a few hundred. Your tax refund is your money paid back to you at zero interest. Just let that sink in for a moment, if it doesn't then go to your bank and ask for a loan without interest and consider their response.


That interest free loan point would be a much more compelling arguement if savings accounts had something greater than a 0.25% interest rate.  That $500 refund could have been $501.25 had I not loaned it to the government.

Don't get me wrong, I play the whole "it's better to owe" game too, but it doesn't take much to really fark it up.  My wife and I did much better than expected this year, which put us owing enough to get penalized.

I would have honestly preferred forgoing the extra $1.25 to get a $500 "bonus" instead of having to shift money around to pay a tax bill and penalties.
2014-06-18 12:51:14 PM  
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: Some people in the near future won't work. They won't have to work. Through automation and efficiency the surpluses will be so great that we'll be able to provide a basic living for everyone without an undue burden on those who choose to work.


There are billionaires and millionaires out there now who can give away half their money and still not feel it (no undue burden there) and yet they will fight to keep every unnecessary, underutilized dollar that they have.

I doubt that will ever change.


And its all well and good for Picard. His family has a damn vineyard in France. But there aren't enough caribbean islands and tuscan villas to go around. There is still going to be someone on earth living in a studio apartment somewhere, even if its a nice one, even if they do choose to work.
2014-06-18 12:02:46 PM  
1 votes:
Most of the time I just pray for a quick death so I wont be a burdon and rack up hospital bills.

I was doing pretty well until 05-06, everything bad that could happen to me did and I was lucky I was good at saving money because I was nearly wiped out. Whenever things start to go well and I start to see some light at the end of the tunnel it turns out to be a train. In July I will probably get a weekend job to help with the bills and I told the roomate if she dosent have a job by then she has to go. I'm glad she has been over 90 days sober and has cleaned up the house but I need her paying rent and out working or at least get a sugar daddy.
2014-06-18 11:56:19 AM  
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: MelGoesOnTour: JackieRabbit: Here is the wake up call for those who think they will work well beyond retirement age: think again. We will not be allowed to. We will be pushed out for younger workers, who will require less money and fewer benefits. Right now, if you are over 50 and lose your job, the probability of finding another one that has a salary that matches your previous one is almost zero. If you are over 55, your chance of getting any new job is rather low. Older workers are forced out of organizations all the time and this is done without any worry of being in violation of age discrimination laws.

And, you know what? We should accept this. 45 +/- years is plenty long enough to be in the labor market. With technology eliminating more and more jobs, there will be fewer available as time passes. Younger workers, who have families to support, need those jobs more than an older worker, who wants to work five more years so that he can add another $150/mo to his annuity payment.

How old are you?  Seriously.

Why would that matter? Those are valid points for the most part. Especially in the tech where energy and adaptability are two of the majors in the skill set. Retirement age was set when most people wouldn't live past 65. Thinking you'll work until 65 and then have enough money to live another 2 decades is a wonderful dream. But for most it will remain a dream. But then again by 65 you should have your kids moved out and your house payed for so your month to month living expensive should be lower so getting a lower paying job shouldn't be that bad. A blow to the ego but suck it up and GBTW. This will basically put you into the entry level job market. Sucks for the kids looking for their first jobs but it won't mess with the 20 somethings looking to start making future tax payers.
Most of these problems including the Social Security problems will be fixed once we get over the baby boom.


What happens when 15,000,000 illegal immigrants suddenly become legal and enter the regular work force? Starting taking entry level jobs? Start signing up for subsidies? Overnight baby boom.
2014-06-18 11:42:25 AM  
1 votes:

Petit_Merdeux: 401ks work if you put money in them.


Wow!  there's a concept I bet nobody has ever thought of, he said sarcastically!

You are, of course, correct.  And if  you put a lot of money in a 401k, you can get even more lots or money out.  Compound interest is wonderful when it's working in your favor and not on a credit card balance against you.

The major downside of 401k investments is inflation.  If most of your 401k or IRA is in cash, be very careful.  I saw too many elderly lose their retirement while the bank balance actually went up in the 60s and 70s when we had double digit inflation.

So far, no rampant inflation is around.  But I still feel better having equity and real assets than cash.
2014-06-18 11:30:06 AM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: 401(k)s are a sham


I think the actual title of the article should be "People are Idiots."

401ks work if you put money in them.

If you don't, well, duh.
2014-06-18 11:15:28 AM  
1 votes:

Witness99: Decide what you want and be good at it. I chose career and have no children, because I didn't have the time or money to do it well. When you try to have everything, you could end up with nothing.


If everyone waited until they thought they had both the time and the money to have children, humanity would end in 2 generations.
2014-06-18 11:11:14 AM  
1 votes:

chasd00: Your tax refund is your money paid back to you at zero interest.


No shiat, Einstein.  Most of us just look at as a short-term savings account.  We're not banks, we don't expect to make a profit on it.
Even if I took all the money that would go to taxes, and put it into my savings account for that 12 months or less instead, I'd make what, $10 on it?
And if I took it and put it into a higher yield market account, I'd then owe capitol gains tax on the profit when I took it out again to pay the income tax.
So for most of us it's just fine to loan it to the feds for a few months, knowing we'll get it back.
2014-06-18 11:10:49 AM  
1 votes:

sufferpuppet: "We have been married 46 years and my wife has been primarily a stay-at-home mom" of six children.

Six crotch fruit on a single income and they wonder why they don't have money to retire on?  This guy wont be able to stop working till 3 years after he dies.


You don't seem to understand that this was once the normal situation. Few women of that generation worked unless they had no other choice. Men used to be paid more (adjusted for inflation) then than they are now, because it was excerpted that they had families to support. Today, they make less than they did in 1965 dollars because the new expectation is that women will work and that most households will be dual-income. Therefor an individual employee can be paid less.

Consider, too, that older workers (over about 50) usually started their careers with pension plans. Gradually, most of these plans were converted to 401(k) plans since they get employers off the hook. These plans have been devastated in the last four recessions. Chances are that in 2007, this guy was sitting pretty for retirement. But not anymore.

I, too, worry if my wife will have enough money after I die. It's what a husband does.
2014-06-18 11:08:40 AM  
1 votes:

sufferpuppet: "We have been married 46 years and my wife has been primarily a stay-at-home mom" of six children.

Six crotch fruit on a single income and they wonder why they don't have money to retire on?  This guy wont be able to stop working till 3 years after he dies.


Everyone seems to think (due to social or religious pressure) that you must go to college, you must procreate, etc...the fact is, it's nearly impossible to do everything well. Unless you make a shiatload of money, you're not going to be able to pay off your own student loan, afford children on a single income or put them through college. If you're a woman and you spend your 20's and 30's as a stay at home mom, good luck breaking into the professional workforce at 40. You have no work experience.

Decide what you want and be good at it. I chose career and have no children, because I didn't have the time or money to do it well. When you try to have everything, you could end up with nothing.
2014-06-18 10:56:57 AM  
1 votes:

evilmrsock: I live in a world where people who vote yes to every local civic improvement while making $60k+ biatch about "the man" "stealing" fraom their thousand dollar freelance jobs, and how issuing a 1099 is "uncalled for". Your proposal is so fiscally naive that I would run it verbatim in a campaign against you if we were competing for public office.


I'm sorry for your lack of faith in your fellow citizens.  In your world, do people refuse to pay the gas bill?  Do they refuse to pay rent because the landlord is too damned rich anyway?

Where I live, some farmers have produce stands at the end of their driveway.  They put out their produce, put up a  price list, set out a cash box, and then go back to work.  There are a few people that rip them off.  Matter of fact, we all know who they are.  They're the kind of people that if you give them a dozen ears of sweet corn, they'll complain to the neighbors that you didn't give them any butter to put on it.  But by and large, the farmers are compensated for their produce.  Some folks even leave more than they owe.  But if the farmer is giving value for the money, he'll come out all right at the end.  Maybe the government should pay attention to that previous sentence.

Of course, if you live in a society where people feel themselves entitled, regardless of their contribution or productivity; if you live in a society where people are taught to be jealous of the wealth of others because, after all, that bastard didn't earn that - it was given to him or he won life's lottery or he got that on the backs of [insert oppressed minority here]; if you live in a society where people have been told everybody else is gaming the system so they should also - just to get a little of their own back; if you live in a society where the elected officials hold themselves above the law and regularly break the law and/or encourage or allow others to break the law with impunity; then I can see that taxpayers would assert the "right" to lie, cheat and steal on their taxes.  And if you think that withholding taxes are solving that problem, you are the one who is either hopelessly naive or willfully obtuse.
2014-06-18 10:54:17 AM  
1 votes:
I had to work outside major cities to earn my time and position, while guys with 20+ years on me get to sit around and drink coffee for 3-4 hrs a day.    I've been told to not "Rock the boat"  with my work attitude, if so it might reveal how much production loss the company actually might have.


I'm a big fan of working hard, but not killing myself.   I am disgusted with I'll work when I can, when I feel like it attitudes.

Why yes I work in a union.    It's great when you really need it, but sometimes you have the worst possible example of an employee, that because they're in the union that gives them immunity for being a lazy fark.

/Bitter, and I'm 30.
//Can't wait to see how much that goes up.
2014-06-18 10:52:24 AM  
1 votes:
Here is the wake up call for those who think they will work well beyond retirement age: think again. We will not be allowed to. We will be pushed out for younger workers, who will require less money and fewer benefits. Right now, if you are over 50 and lose your job, the probability of finding another one that has a salary that matches your previous one is almost zero. If you are over 55, your chance of getting any new job is rather low. Older workers are forced out of organizations all the time and this is done without any worry of being in violation of age discrimination laws.

And, you know what? We should accept this. 45 +/- years is plenty long enough to be in the labor market. With technology eliminating more and more jobs, there will be fewer available as time passes. Younger workers, who have families to support, need those jobs more than an older worker, who wants to work five more years so that he can add another $150/mo to his annuity payment.
2014-06-18 10:25:51 AM  
1 votes:

MelGoesOnTour: Just for the record:  When I was in high school (1980's), almost all cashiers and bagboys at (for instance) the grocery store were high schoolers. Same for many of the people who worrked nights and weekends at Sears or many other stores at the mall or the movie theater.  Nowadays, most of those jobs are done by older people. Most of the bagboys at my Publix are older or post-retirement. And it's pretty easy to spot an older laid-off executive operating the cash register.  What I'm getting at it that the combination of fewer jobs for younger people plus the need for older and post-retirement folks to take many of those jobs is NOT a good thing for anybody.


I used to deliver papers and mow lawns. Now the adults do it. Most teens are now screwed when it comes to employment.
2014-06-18 10:19:57 AM  
1 votes:
Just for the record:  When I was in high school (1980's), almost all cashiers and bagboys at (for instance) the grocery store were high schoolers. Same for many of the people who worrked nights and weekends at Sears or many other stores at the mall or the movie theater.  Nowadays, most of those jobs are done by older people. Most of the bagboys at my Publix are older or post-retirement. And it's pretty easy to spot an older laid-off executive operating the cash register.  What I'm getting at it that the combination of fewer jobs for younger people plus the need for older and post-retirement folks to take many of those jobs is NOT a good thing for anybody.
2014-06-18 09:28:34 AM  
1 votes:

Mr. Right: evilmrsock: Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.

I have been self-employed for 30 years.  I pay my quarterly estimated taxes.  My wife has been self-employed for over 20 years.  We pay her estimated taxes as well.  She has 2 different businesses, I have a consulting practice, a working farm, and I do wood-working and high end, custom furniture as a profitable hobby.  I have been doing all of my own taxes since before there was a Turbo-tax.  I've been audited by the IRS twice and both times, I came out clean as a whistle.  I am above average intelligence but I am not an accountant, let alone a CPA.

Within the township in which I reside, there are a half-dozen dairy farmers I know who either they or their wives pay employees, calculate taxes not only for themselves but the withholding for employees,  Not a CPA or tax lawyer in the bunch.  I know dozens of builders, plumbers, excavators, electricians, mechanics, painters, restaurant owners, and even other consultants.  All of them are self-employed.  A smaller percentage of them use the services of an acco ...


Mr Right is right.

It bothers me that my friends celebrate their refund like it's some sort of gift or surprise. When my wife and I were in the financial position of getting a refund we setup our taxes so that it was as close to zero as possible and actually preferred to owe a few hundred. Your tax refund is your money paid back to you at zero interest. Just let that sink in for a moment, if it doesn't then go to your bank and ask for a loan without interest and consider their response.
2014-06-18 08:47:47 AM  
1 votes:
"Frankly, my continuing to work is all about my wife, to ensure she will have the funds needed to sustain her if I pass away first," Morris says.

That's what a life insurance policy is for dumbass.
2014-06-18 08:28:57 AM  
1 votes:

generallyso: Why 'I'll just work longer' is not a good retirement plan


Whether or not it's a good plan is irrelevant if it's the only plan available.


Quoted for truth.

I'm fortunate to have the job I do and the benefits that it comes with, and I appreciate it every single day.

But... I'm 45, and I have no hope of ever being able to afford to retire. I'm going to be working 40 hours/week (if I'm fortunate enough that it is available to me) every week for the rest of my life, however long that will be. Or until I'm too feeble to do it, in which case, life is over anyway.

Nothing's been holding me back except the fact that everything under the sun is getting more and more expensive because those who profit from it all can simply decide it shall be so, and solely for their own corrupt benefit. I've never asked for a handout, I've always been fortunate enough to be gainfully employed, and I've managed to not be a burden on anybody. I know not everybody can say these things, and I realize I'm fortunate to have what I do.

The gold that makes 'the Golden Years' is in the pockets of every corrupt MFer in corporate America. Thanks, aholes - you've got yours...

Break time's over... back to work...
2014-06-18 08:00:19 AM  
1 votes:

robohobo: twat_waffle:I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

Totally! fark those guys who love their jobs, who find meaning in work! How dare they continue to make themselves useful while also finding satisfaction with how they spend their time. Assholes, the lot of them.  How dare they continue to live their lives how they choose! Why we haven't enacted Carousel yet is beyond me.

/or, you know, people who can't afford to have kids should stop having kids, but personal responsibility is such a drag, man.


Reproduction is a basic human drive. If you wanted to provide incentives for sterilization, go ahead. Before you do that, realize that our economy depends on a slightly positive population growth rate. If only those who could "afford" to have kids did so, we would quickly become like Japan, but without the weird porn and sardine tin subways.

And yes, fark those Boomers who find meaning in work and love their jobs. They've had their time in the workforce. Now it's time to make way for younger generations. I'm sure they can find meaning in any number of hobbies, or they could start a small business that is similar to what they did for a career. Them living as they choose is their right, as it is my right to call them selfish for it and to criticize them for being myopic and self-centered.
2014-06-18 07:50:08 AM  
1 votes:

labman: I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson


I spent two years working as an EMT for a private ambulance company, our primary business was inter-facility transports (hospital discharges to nursing facilities, nursing facilities to hospitals or dialysis appointments or doctor appointments etc.) we did have some calls to homes, and some to correction facilities, and I tell you what... from what I witnessed in those nursing homes, you're better bet is to rob a bank - not for the money, but spending your twilight years in prison compared to a nursing home means better medical care along with three hots and a cot.
2014-06-18 07:48:36 AM  
1 votes:

Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.


I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.
2014-06-18 07:41:30 AM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: Yeah, which means that there aren't any openings for new grads, which means there's no one to buy your assets, which means you can't retire.


This is one side of the coin, the other side is that life expectancy has increased while the retirement age has been fairly stagnant, so rather than planning a few years of retirement expenses, people now have to consider over a decade or more of such expenses.  With pensions and investments no longer being as lucrative as they once were, how is anyone supposed to get by retiring on time?
2014-06-18 07:37:11 AM  
1 votes:
I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson
2014-06-18 07:12:01 AM  
1 votes:

robohobo: Ambivalence: robohobo: Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

Didn't Sweden do it recently?

They tried.


I believe in basic income, but we need to start slowly and set the foundation.

look at why people and businesses would oppose it.

Look at the costs.

Look at our tax system.   A lot of people see tax as a personal savings account with the attitude that I get to pull out this tax (savings) because I worked.    Not as a community fund for the communities benefit.

I do not believe just trying to put a basic income in will work or will be voted in.    We still believe that if a person does not have a paid job that they are a societal leech who does not deserve help until they have added taxes them selves to their own tax saving account.

First line of business would be change how we tax.
2014-06-18 07:03:10 AM  
1 votes:

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


Don't worry, if the obesity epidemic continues most Americans under 40 won't make it to 65.
2014-06-18 06:59:53 AM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?

The kind that isn't allowed to get within 500 yards of a school.
2014-06-18 06:58:37 AM  
1 votes:

Maturin: I figure I'll die in the saddle. Which is okay because I like my job and there is a chronic shortage of pediatricians. That and frankly, I don't ever see how I will be able to afford not to work.


How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?
2014-06-18 06:57:45 AM  
1 votes:

Animatronik: some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.


Communism is government control over the means of production.  It has nothing to do with a universal living wage.  If the government increased taxes and started using the funds to buy their citizens basic food, shelter and maybe some education, this would still fall very much in line with the definition capitalist economy.
2014-06-18 06:53:40 AM  
1 votes:

Shadowe: We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


We're taught this lesson repeatedly throughout history.  Humans are ADHD, however, and can't remember any lesson longer than a generation or two, so we're doomed to repeat the lesson again.
2014-06-18 06:16:01 AM  
1 votes:

twat_waffle: The first people against the wall will be corporate CEOs and bankers.


No they won't.  If/when it ever gets to the point where people are sharpening pitchforks and lighting torches, their money will have long since been wired to a bank in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands, while they and their families will long since have jetted off to somewhere without an extradition treaty.

/I wouldn't be surprised if some of the private jets parked at Teterboro airport are kept gassed up and ready to roll for just this reason
2014-06-18 05:49:50 AM  
1 votes:

Animatronik: what your company is doing to help


Oh, that's rich.

Pull the other one. It's got bells on.
2014-06-18 05:42:21 AM  
1 votes:

Shadowe: twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.

"And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


All of this bullshiat aside.....

When you get your first job , do a calculation as to what you need for retirement and what your company is doing to help. And then save even more than that.

Don't count on our idiotic government to come to your rescue, and don't expect normal hardworking people to buy into some communist fantasy because some idiots have a drug problem or live beyond their means, and saved nothing for retirement.
2014-06-18 05:39:44 AM  
1 votes:

Shadowe: "And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


It is human folly to forget.
2014-06-18 05:38:04 AM  
1 votes:

some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.
2014-06-18 05:18:53 AM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: He currently contributes 40% of his salary to his 401(k).

Good luck with that.

401(k)s are a sham

Duped by a DIY retirement dream, the elderly now face staggeringly low living standards


Sorry, but I've been assured by right-wingers that individuals will always know how to best use their money, and that we don't need social security or pensions.
2014-06-18 05:10:35 AM  
1 votes:
twat_waffle:I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

Totally! fark those guys who love their jobs, who find meaning in work! How dare they continue to make themselves useful while also finding satisfaction with how they spend their time. Assholes, the lot of them.  How dare they continue to live their lives how they choose! Why we haven't enacted Carousel yet is beyond me.

/or, you know, people who can't afford to have kids should stop having kids, but personal responsibility is such a drag, man.
2014-06-18 04:51:44 AM  
1 votes:

TommyymmoT: twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.

================

Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore,  and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".


I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

The first people against the wall will be corporate CEOs and bankers.
2014-06-18 04:28:43 AM  
1 votes:

twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?


Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?
2014-06-18 03:42:50 AM  
1 votes:

robohobo: Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.


Didn't Sweden do it recently?
2014-06-18 03:05:52 AM  
1 votes:
It's the american dream!!
2014-06-18 03:03:39 AM  
1 votes:
He currently contributes 40% of his salary to his 401(k).

Good luck with that.

401(k)s are a sham

Duped by a DIY retirement dream, the elderly now face staggeringly low living standards
2014-06-18 03:02:40 AM  
1 votes:

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


But then you wouldn't have a job wiping their asses, or mopping up their drool.
 
Displayed 70 of 70 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report